S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Frostfox]

I've just been reading the MS interview in TV Zone.

He does say that this year, he wishes that there had been more interaction between Daniel and Vala, as there was at the beginning of Season 9. He says about their interaction: "The writers have toned it down slightly, which in some ways is good because it's less antagonistic, for lack of a better word. Eventually, though, Daniel and Vala had to loosen up around each other and show that side of them that's warm and friendly. At the same time Claudia and I have gotten to fire some zingers at one another and have that kind of onscreen spark that we love."

I couldn't find a quote saying that MS felt that acting with CB made Daniel act more like him than when he wasn't playing against her.
I also didn't see why this was any different to any of the other times actors have spoken about enjoying working with each other. There is no implication of 'I like working with CB to the exclusion of everyone else' or I must be the sole focus of the show at all times.
AT recently said that she wished there was more interaction between herself and MS and CJ in the latter part of the season. No one seemed to think that was egotistical or self promoting, indeed, we all agreed with her. Where is the difference in ideology there?

The only difference I can see is that some of us, some more than others, don't like the Vala/Daniel interaction. Which is totally valid and an opinion I share.
But why vilify MS? He's as entitled to his views as we are to ours and I'm sure there are other areas of fandom who like the Vala/Daniel interplay and want to see more of it. They would most likely agree with him. To each their own.

Spoilers for The Road Not Taken

Spoiler:

I've also been reading what AT had to say about this episode and it sounds a really interesting premise, I'm looking forward to it and if it comes off, this will be three good episodes in a row, in my opinion, not something I expected in season 10, I thought SG1 was pretty much a spent force, creativity wise.

FF

[Hubble]

I've just been reading the MS interview in TV Zone.



I couldn't find a quote saying that MS felt that acting with CB made Daniel act more like him than when he wasn't playing against her.
I also didn't see why this was any different to any of the other times actors have spoken about enjoying working with each other. There is no implication of 'I like working with CB to the exclusion of everyone else' or I must be the sole focus of the show at all times.
AT recently said that she wished there was more interaction between herself and MS and CJ in the latter part of the season. No one seemed to think that was egotistical or self promoting, indeed, we all agreed with her. Where is the difference in ideology there?

The only difference I can see is that some of us, some more than others, don't like the Vala/Daniel interaction. Which is totally valid and an opinion I share.
But why vilify MS? He's as entitled to his views as we are to ours and I'm sure there are other areas of fandom who like the Vala/Daniel interplay and want to see more of it. They would most likely agree with him. To each their own.

Spoilers for The Road Not Taken

Spoiler:

I've also been reading what AT had to say about this episode and it sounds a really interesting premise, I'm looking forward to it and if it comes off, this will be three good episodes in a row, in my opinion, not something I expected in season 10, I thought SG1 was pretty much a spent force, creativity wise.

FF

My 2 cents. I don't think anyone 'villified' Michael Shanks in the least. My own perception is that it seems likely he would know that when he has interaction with CB/Vala – as in the beginning of S9 – it doesn't leave much room for him or Vala to interact on any meaningful level with the other characters. I say he must know that because if 80% of his scenes are with CB/Vala, it would be very obvious to him. So, in my mind, saying he really enjoys working with CB is one thing, saying he wishes there could be more interaction like there was in the beginning of S9 is saying something else, which computes to less interaction with the other characters, less emphasis on the other characters and more emphasis on Daniel/Vala.

Yes, AT said she wished there was more interaction between her and CJ or MS later in the season, but she didn't have major heavy interaction with either of them in S9 like MS/CB did, so I see that as a little different.

I think perhaps it's confusing maybe because MS didn't like the emphasis on S/J back before because it wasn't about the team. Now he does seem to be saying he would like more emphasis on V/D and I'm not sure I see the difference. Maybe he thinks S/J was not important to the storyline or was a distraction, but that Daniel/Vala *is* important to the storyline and therefore he wants it to be featured more or maybe he wants it to be featured more because he just likes acting with her. Or maybe he likes the specific kind of interaction they used to have (the snarky snapping at each other) as opposed to the (somewhat toned down) interaction the characters have now.

The thing is, sometimes I'm not very sure what it is he is saying, or maybe what he said wasn't really expressive of what he actually meant. I have nothing against MS or any of the actors. I just don't want more of Vaniel in any form.

[Skydiver]

ANd some of the comments have come from that disparity in comments.

MS had gone on record not liking how the focus on only one aspect of the show - sam/jack - didn't appeal to him and he felt took away from the show. Yet doesn't seem to have the same issue with daniel/vala.

but, at their most basic, they are the same thing...two characters becoming the focus at the cost of the others. Yet, at least on the surface, what's the main difference between a 'bad pairing focus' and a 'good pairing focus'....well, the most obvious being that MS was not a part of the featured pairing that he didn't like and IS a part of hte pairing that he does like.

Who wouldn't want to be part of the focus of the show? Tis human nature. It's just kinda ironic that what was bad and anti- team and the bane of the show 4 years ago is now fine and hunky dory and preferred...and the only real change is the partipants.

[Jackie]

well, I'm staying clear of that whole mess.



Stargate needs to improve the bad guys in a bad way. The ori really don't have much substance to them. I never liked the whole ascension thing they did.

Ba'al is the running joke now. They don't plan on making the goa'uld come back.

I would like to see evil Asgard and evil Nox. It would also be cool to have the Wraith in the milky way. Even cooler to have a Wraith meet a Vampire.

[suse]

ANd some of the comments have come from that disparity in comments.

MS had gone on record not liking how the focus on only one aspect of the show - sam/jack - didn't appeal to him and he felt took away from the show. Yet doesn't seem to have the same issue with daniel/vala.

but, at their most basic, they are the same thing...two characters becoming the focus at the cost of the others. Yet, at least on the surface, what's the main difference between a 'bad pairing focus' and a 'good pairing focus'....well, the most obvious being that MS was not a part of the featured pairing that he didn't like and IS a part of hte pairing that he does like.

Who wouldn't want to be part of the focus of the show? Tis human nature. It's just kinda ironic that what was bad and anti- team and the bane of the show 4 years ago is now fine and hunky dory and preferred...and the only real change is the partipants.

Not so. Sam/Jack were never the nearly sole focus read:joined at the hip the way Vaniel was in early S9 and in some parts of S10. Sure there was some ship. Now it may have felt like only to those who hated it and -imo- saw ship any time they interacted and wouldn't let them be members of the same team interacting but that's down to interpretaion. Vaniel - again imo - cannot be interpretted any other way.


What Hubble said summed up my feelings about the comments both then and now perfectly. And said it much better than I ever could. Thanks Hubble.


FF, please don't feel like I'm picking on you. I'm not. It's nice to have another view to read. I just don't happen to think - considering what MS has said in previous interviews - that AGateFan is over-reaching. <shrug>
I'll leave the subject alone now.

suse

[suse]

well, I'm staying clear of that whole mess.



Stargate needs to improve the bad guys in a bad way. The ori really don't have much substance to them. I never liked the whole ascension thing they did.

Ba'al is the running joke now. They don't plan on making the goa'uld come back.

I would like to see evil Asgard and evil Nox. It would also be cool to have the Wraith in the milky way. Even cooler to have a Wraith meet a Vampire.

NO! Third series: Sam Carter: Vampire Hunter

suse

[Frostfox]

My 2 cents. I don't think anyone 'villified' Michael Shanks in the least. My own perception is that it seems likely he would know that when he has interaction with CB/Vala – as in the beginning of S9 – it doesn't leave much room for him or Vala to interact on any meaningful level with the other characters. I say he must know that because if 80% of his scenes are with CB/Vala, it would be very obvious to him. So, in my mind, saying he really enjoys working with CB is one thing, saying he wishes there could be more interaction like there was in the beginning of S9 is saying something else,

But as you say, this is your perception of what he thinks. We aren't privvy to his thought processes, we can project things like

which computes to less interaction with the other characters, less emphasis on the other characters and more emphasis on Daniel/Vala.

without having any impirical basis to make such an assumption. That might be what he thinks. It might not. It's pure speculation and as such, should not be projected as MS's opinion on the matter.

Yes, AT said she wished there was more interaction between her and CJ or MS later in the season, but she didn't have major heavy interaction with either of them in S9 like MS/CB did, so I see that as a little different.

Regardles, why does that make it a

different ideology

according to ParadoxRealites? A different interpretation, okay, but ideology? The both said the same thing but about different characters.

I think perhaps it's confusing maybe because MS didn't like the emphasis on S/J back before because it wasn't about the team. Now he does seem to be saying he would like more emphasis on V/D and I'm not sure I see the difference. Maybe he thinks S/J was not important to the storyline or was a distraction, but that Daniel/Vala *is* important to the storyline and therefore he wants it to be featured more or maybe he wants it to be featured more because he just likes acting with her. Or maybe he likes the specific kind of interaction they used to have (the snarky snapping at each other) as opposed to the (somewhat toned down) interaction the characters have now.

The thing is, sometimes I'm not very sure what it is he is saying, or maybe what he said wasn't really expressive of what he actually meant. I have nothing against MS or any of the actors. I just don't want more of Vaniel in any form.

Again, we are down to different analysis and interpretaton of his motives. Which is subjective and going to vary wildly across the fandom.

But I don't see why such discussion can't be carried out in a civilised and polite manner, without being disrespectful to the actor as, at the root of this discussion, I felt AGateFan was being. The forum rules require us to be courtious to each other and to extend that courtsey to TPTB and the actors.

I didn't find -

Gee you mean MS likes it when he is the near sole focus of the show with the only other character getting time being the female character whose sole purpose is to play off his character, pinning for him all the time while his character gets to be really rude back to her (and thus proving his characters manliness I guess). Gee who would have thunk it.

to be polite or respectful regardless about whom it was being said. Your milage may vary.

Who wouldn't want to be part of the focus of the show? Tis human nature. It's just kinda ironic that what was bad and anti- team and the bane of the show 4 years ago is now fine and hunky dory and preferred...and the only real change is the partipants.

I'm rather glad that there aren't people about who will pull me to task every time my current opinion varies from the one I held four years ago. Fandom has very long memories.

Not so. Sam/Jack were never the nearly sole focus read:joined at the hip the way Vaniel was in early S9 and in some parts of S10. Sure there was some ship. Now it may have felt like only to those who hated it and -imo- saw ship any time they interacted and wouldn't let them be members of the same team interacting but that's down to interpretaion. Vaniel - again imo - cannot be interpretted any other way.

I must say, I don't like Daniel/Vala any more than I liked Sam/Jack, you won't find me gushing about it in the D/V thread.

FF, please don't feel like I'm picking on you. I'm not. It's nice to have another view to read. I just don't happen to think - considering what MS has said in previous interviews - that AGateFan is over-reaching. <shrug>
I'll leave the subject alone now.

suse

Don't worry, I don't feel picked on, though swimming agains the tide might be more appropriate. But I've been in BBs and before that, on Usenet for more years than I care to think, I'm used to debating opinion.

FF

[grasshopper64]

Just thought I would jump in with a couple of points.

To be fair to MS he seems to be asked about working with CB in practically every interview he does and of course he is going to say only good things about working with her and the whole D/V interaction. He doesn't seem to get asked much about working with AT/CJ/BB, although he has spoken highly of working with RDA in recent times.

As an actor if his interaction with one particular character ie Vala gives him more screentime and focus then of course he will not complain

As someone who is a Daniel fan and not a fan of Daniel/Vala, I do wish the question would be put to him, something like are you aware that many people think that Daniel/Vala have had too much screentime together and that Daniel's interaction with the other characters has suffered as a result?
Actually I think that's more a question for the writers/producers.
At the end of the day MS is an actor, the writers write the scripts and the actors have to work with what they're given.

Also spoilers for the second half of S10 do indicate that there will be much less D/V pairing off unlike the first half of S10, MS could have been meant that.

In any case I think it's a mistake to speculate too much into what actors say, after all isn't it their job to put a positive spin on the show?

[AGateFan]

<big post all self snipped>

New post that should probably be snipped (TPTB is mother, TPTB is father)

So I am Anti S10 of Stargate SG-1 because those lovely TPTB (who really are trying their best to do a good job) caused the show to go downhill by introducing badly thought out characters and bad plots. I know its not their fault, the poor guys are just doing the bestest that they can and scifi was meanie and disrespecful for cancelling the show because they were trying sooo hard.

Sure the new characters are extremely badly written (oops I'm sorry... how disresepctful... extremely not the bestest written, but I know they are trying really really hard.) and the old characters are acting out of character (not that thats a bad thing if it makes the actors and directors feel more happy then they should be able to do whatever they like. Who am I to judge, I really should be more understanding). But it was very impolite for 30% of the audience (stupid americans)* to stop watching and then for that STUPID MEAN EVIL SCIFI* to cancel the show.

In conclusion, I am very dissatisfied with S10. So I have come to this thread to see if anyone agrees with me and to state my reasons why (which I really cant because I may hurt someones self esteme) and to find out other peoples reasons why (though I am not sure how they can tell me without being blacklisted by THE MAN.). TPTB is mother, TPTB is father.

* Its OK to be "disrespectful" to big corporations and governments and americans right? Thats part of the PC movement as far as I understand it.

[RealmOfX]

<big post all self snipped>

New post that should probably be snipped (TPTB is mother, TPTB is father)

So I am Anti S10 of Stargate SG-1 because those lovely TPTB (who really are trying their best to do a good job) caused the show to go downhill by introducing badly thought out characters and bad plots. I know its not their fault, the poor guys are just doing the bestest that they can and scifi was meanie and disrespecful for cancelling the show because they were trying sooo hard.

Sure the new characters are extremely badly written (oops I'm sorry... how disresepctful... extremely not the bestest written, but I know they are trying really really hard.) and the old characters are acting out of character (not that thats a bad thing if it makes the actors and directors feel more happy then they should be able to do whatever they like. Who am I to judge, I really should be more understanding). But it was very impolite for 30% of the audience (stupid americans)* to stop watching and then for that STUPID MEAN EVIL SCIFI* to cancel the show.

In conclusion, I am very dissatisfied with S10. So I have come to this thread to see if anyone agrees with me and to state my reasons why (which I really cant because I may hurt someones self esteme) and to find out other peoples reasons why (though I am not sure how they can tell me without being blacklisted by THE MAN.). TPTB is mother, TPTB is father.

* Its OK to be "disrespectful" to big corporations and governments and americans right? Thats part of the PC movement as far as I understand it.

*wonders where AGF has been playing recently*

[AGateFan]

*wonders where AGF has been playing recently*

On the Lost Planet....
Too many video games. They corrupt your mind you know

EDIT: Oh and watching LMN....did you ever notice that most of the movies on LMN are psycos beating up on women or psyco women beating up on other people. Everyone thinks its all love story stuff but it is actually very rarely that. Plus there are TONS of stargate extras in those movies. Its great fun to pick them out.

[ParadoxRealities]

Regardles, why does that make it a according to ParadoxRealites? A different interpretation, okay, but ideology? The both said the same thing but about different characters.

*headdesk* ok, i may be weird here, or maybe i'm just blind. but nowhere did i say the words "different ideology" anywhere near consecutively. the only time i mentioned ideology, the word "different" wasn't even in my post. i know you're just trying to shorten things up and make a point, but i really wish you'd stop misquoting me.
now then. others have already stated what i see as one of MS's wants/wishes/goals. he really likes D/V, he wants more of it, thereby restricting his characters growth in an...unusual way...and if Regan ever pops in with a link, i think he also enjoys that it makes Daniel less like Daniel and more like himself. i dislike that. no where in what you've said or what i've read have AT said something that amounts to that. sure, she likes/supports S/T. and (perhaps in part because) she believes it's under-nurtured. MS never said anything about D/V being under nurtured, and IMO, you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who thought so. but be my guest. never has AT said anything that amounts to restricting her character's interaction with other characters. in fact, quite the opposite. yes, this is all my interpretation. if it wasn't, we wouldn't disagree, and we wouldn't be in this situation. just because you don't see a difference between what AT and MS says doesn't mean that i can't, that i'm wrong, or that there isn't one. nor vice versa.

I'm rather glad that there aren't people about who will pull me to task every time my current opinion varies from the one I held four years ago. Fandom has very long memories.

do you have proof that he did indeed change his mind? i haven't seen him mention what D/V brings to the show the way he talked about what SJ takes away. this is an honest question, you're welcome to your interpretation regardless of the evidence you do or do not have.


*claps for AGF*

[Nolamom]

New post that should probably be snipped (TPTB is mother, TPTB is father)

Remember this one AGF? muwahahaha

[Frostfox]

*headdesk* ok, i may be weird here, or maybe i'm just blind. but nowhere did i say the words "different ideology" anywhere near consecutively. the only time i mentioned ideology, the word "different" wasn't even in my post. i know you're just trying to shorten things up and make a point, but i really wish you'd stop misquoting me.
now then. others have already stated what i see as one of MS's wants/wishes/goals. he really likes D/V, he wants more of it, thereby restricting his characters growth in an...unusual way...and if Regan ever pops in with a link, i think he also enjoys that it makes Daniel less like Daniel and more like himself. i dislike that. no where in what you've said or what i've read have AT said something that amounts to that. sure, she likes/supports S/T. and (perhaps in part because) she believes it's under-nurtured. MS never said anything about D/V being under nurtured, and IMO, you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who thought so. but be my guest. never has AT said anything that amounts to restricting her character's interaction with other characters. in fact, quite the opposite. yes, this is all my interpretation. if it wasn't, we wouldn't disagree, and we wouldn't be in this situation. just because you don't see a difference between what AT and MS says doesn't mean that i can't, that i'm wrong, or that there isn't one. nor vice versa.

I still haven't seen verbatim quote of MS saying that D/V makes him act Daniel more like himself. Only paraphrase.

To use your quote in context,

and now that that's said, i can stop taking it on face value and answer FrostFox's question: i agree with AGF. and yes, i disagree with MS's ideology.

I'm still not clear how MS's ideology, wanting more D/V is different from AT's wanting more S/D, S/T, S/anyone. Unless one assumes that MS's motives are always self centered and AT's motives are always altruistic? I like to think that Gateworld is not the sort of place where such assumptions would be made, I mean, there are poisionous places out there where other actors (AT is particular) are treated with contempt and disdain and people here rightly condem such attitudes. So is this site same but for MS rather than other actors? I've not noticed it in my last two and a half years on the board, but perhaps I wasn't looking in the right places?
Just edited to add, I haven't seen anything like the level of nastiness on this thread that one sees in Other Places, but we should be able to debate without dipping to such levels.

do you have proof that he did indeed change his mind? i haven't seen him mention what D/V brings to the show the way he talked about what SJ takes away. this is an honest question, you're welcome to your interpretation regardless of the evidence you do or do not have.

I was replying to Skydiver's post -

ANd some of the comments have come from that disparity in comments.

MS had gone on record not liking how the focus on only one aspect of the show - sam/jack - didn't appeal to him and he felt took away from the show. Yet doesn't seem to have the same issue with daniel/vala.

but, at their most basic, they are the same thing...two characters becoming the focus at the cost of the others. Yet, at least on the surface, what's the main difference between a 'bad pairing focus' and a 'good pairing focus'....well, the most obvious being that MS was not a part of the featured pairing that he didn't like and IS a part of hte pairing that he does like.

Who wouldn't want to be part of the focus of the show? Tis human nature. It's just kinda ironic that what was bad and anti- team and the bane of the show 4 years ago is now fine and hunky dory and preferred...and the only real change is the partipants.

I have no idea if MS has changed his opinion, I was merely commenting that we all change over time, I wasn't even in this fandom four years ago but I'm sure my opinions wouldn't have been static. Actors, with interviews and fans, have people who can go back four years and pull up old opinions and comments (the wayback machine is a scary but wonderful thing). I'm quite happy that, as a mere fan, no one is doing that to me.

FF

[Frostfox]

To quoteHubble
I'll take a stab at it. The first 5 episodes of S9 were extremely Daniel/Vala heavy. In S10 so far, wherever Daniel is Vala is sure to follow. Sam and Teal'c go check the perimeters; Daniel and Vala stay behind together. Sam and Mitchell walk down a hall: Daniel and Vala stay together. Landry told Daniel Vala was his resposibiity; Daniel and Vala are rarely seen interacting much with other characters unless M

But why is any of that MS's fault? He doesn't write the episodes, he doesn't direct them and decide who will go where. Those are issues for TPTB, and even if I though they got the team balance somewhat off

Spoiler:

and will never understand why they didn't give AT/Sam a good reason not to be there. That was just sloppy and caused no end of bad blood between the Sam fans and the fans of the newer characters, all unnecessary if they had handled it better.

I'd still expect us to discuss what they had or hadn't done in civil terms.

FF