S10: Critique & Contemplation

[AGateFan]

Don't get me wrong. I don't get dinged a lot and when I do I try to ask why because maybe I worded something too aggressive. If however, I find their reasoning baseless (such as reading something into what I said that I didn’t say or just hating my opinion) then I will just write it off.

Note also it’s not the "pros" that ding you when you get dinged normally.
Oddly the people who ding you can be just as negative about stuff THEY DONT LIKE (not necessarily about the show as they tend to have problems staying on topic) but if you are negative about stuff they DO LIKE well then you are EVVVIIIILLLLLL.

Yea I am sure everyone will think I am talking about one person, but I am not. This type of personality pops up from time to time. And no, I don’t mean the same person who has had a bunch of different names, although that does happen as well.

For the most part, most "pros" are happy to post in their pro thread and most "antis" are happy to post in their anti threads. And plenty of anti's do branch out to general discussion, but it can be quite tiring to do so as you must be prepared to be "flamed". Although honestly, the way the Mods and the Rules work on this board the flaming is quite mild then it is on other boards but then so is trolling and the like. Sometimes I am on other boards just watching people hammer one another and wondering where the mods are and then realizing this is "acceptable" on that board. It is only unacceptable if you say something that particular Mod doesn’t like. I find that amusing and then come back here to the nice comfortable Gateworld.

Anyway, on topic.
I don’t find ship between leads to be particularly interesting at any time. If Daniel MUST have a love interest on the show then it was much better as one of the minor characters he has known over the years. Whatever happened to Sarah Gardner anyway, talk about TPTB dropping the ball, geez.

Honestly though, why MUST any of them have love interest. What happened to the great old action adventure exploration show with a scifi setting that I used to love. Now it’s like a cheesy scifi show with romance but lacks the cool action adventure exploration.

Its funny, a lot of the changes they have made have were a lot of the things I sited to others as not being on the show and thus reasons why this is "not the typical Scifi show so you should try it and you will probably like it". Now it’s just a typical scifi show and thus the general audience has bailed.

They traded the general audience they had. The general audience that was large and diverse enough to keep the show going for 8 years. They traded them for a small set of hardcore scifi fans. The same set that probably watches many of the scifi shows that are cancelled after a couple of seasons. I just don’t make any sense why they would do that.

(note its 4 am and I just woke up so this post may or may not make sense...also this is a highly cliffnoted version of something I was thinking about on what is wrong with the show....."the everything that was not present in the show that made the show good part", that is.)

[Zoser]

snipped

Anyway, on topic.
I don’t find ship between leads to be particularly interesting at any time. If Daniel MUST have a love interest on the show then it was much better as one of the minor characters he has known over the years. Whatever happened to Sarah Gardner anyway, talk about TPTB dropping the ball, geez.

Honestly though, why MUST any of them have love interest. What happened to the great old action adventure exploration show with a scifi setting that I used to love. Now it’s like a cheesy scifi show with romance but lacks the cool action adventure exploration.

I like a little ship and I like it subtle, certainly not the main focus but this ambiguity cr@p just gets me annoyed. I don't like being played for ratings.
Write the d@mned story of your vision, stop with keeping your options open in case something better comes along. Are TPTB commitment phobic?
I'm not going off on you GF. I respect others peoples point of view (I may not agree but who really cares what I think). This is something that bothers me in the series as well as fan fic. I'm having trouble expressing myself without sounding like a jerk. I think you should have a concept and it's your expression of that concept that should attract readers or viewers not constant pandering - the rating will let you know if anyone else hears and appreciates your voice.

Its funny, a lot of the changes they have made have were a lot of the things I sited to others as not being on the show and thus reasons why this is "not the typical Scifi show so you should try it and you will probably like it". Now it’s just a typical scifi show and thus the general audience has bailed.

They traded the general audience they had. The general audience that was large and diverse enough to keep the show going for 8 years. They traded them for a small set of hardcore scifi fans. The same set that probably watches many of the scifi shows that are cancelled after a couple of seasons. I just don’t make any sense why they would do that.

(note its 4 am and I just woke up so this post may or may not make sense...also this is a highly cliffnoted version of something I was thinking about on what is wrong with the show....."the everything that was not present in the show that made the show good part", that is.)

And here I would see myself as a hardcore scifi fan. I cut my teeth on Asimov (Our Dept. Virologist was taught Biochemistry by Asimov) and Herbert. I love scifi mainly because it looks forward and has the freedom to tackle any subject especially those of morality and ethics, but I love good scifi. You just can't throw in some phasars and weird names and blue hair and call it scifi, well maybe you can but you all know about lipstick and pigs.

The only other TV show that I watched repeatedly was B5. And it was the developement of the characters as well as the plot that had me hooked. If they put the repeats on tomorrow I'd watch it again. The only boxed sets I own are Stargate 1 - 8 (and the movie)

[Rogue]

I've been thinking more about the Quest part 2, and thought about the role Mitchell played in the episode. I have come to the conclusion that they could have done the whole episode without him and he wouldn't be missed. Spoilers for Quest p2

Spoiler:

The dragon stuff had them all running from it, then all shooting at it. Mitchell was going to run off and blow the dragon up, but, thankfully, Teal'c stopped him. When they split up for the A and B plots, Sam, Teal'c and Baal are at the gate, and Daniel, Vala and Mitchell are in the cave with the headsucker thingy. All the main interaction here is between Daniel and Vala, with Cam just hanging around. When the baddies come through the gate, Sam and Teal'c fight them, with Mitchell eventually joining them. He wasn't the hero, and had no major stuff to do or say....apart from the (IMHO) vomit-inducing speach to Vala. Of course, this speach could have been done with Sam or Teal'c instead of Cam. He was in the episode, but I really don't know why.

Yep, I have been wondering that since he was introduced. For a male lead, he is a very poorly written character. He brings nothing to the team that wasn't already there.

[AGateFan]

snipped
I like a little ship and I like it subtle, certainly not the main focus but this ambiguity cr@p just gets me annoyed. I don't like being played for ratings.
Write the d@mned story of your vision, stop with keeping your options open in case something better comes along. Are TPTB commitment phobic?
I'm not going off on you GF. I respect others peoples point of view (I may not agree but who really cares what I think). This is something that bothers me in the series as well as fan fic. I'm having trouble expressing myself without sounding like a jerk. I think you should have a concept and it's your expression of that concept that should attract readers or viewers not constant pandering - the rating will let you know if anyone else hears and appreciates your voice.


And here I would see myself as a hardcore scifi fan. I cut my teeth on Asimov (Our Dept. Virologist was taught Biochemistry by Asimov) and Herbert. I love scifi mainly because it looks forward and has the freedom to tackle any subject especially those of morality and ethics, but I love good scifi. You just can't throw in some phasars and weird names and blue hair and call it scifi, well maybe you can but you all know about lipstick and pigs.

The only other TV show that I watched repeatedly was B5. And it was the developement of the characters as well as the plot that had me hooked. If they put the repeats on tomorrow I'd watch it again. The only boxed sets I own are Stargate 1 - 8 (and the movie)

Everyone has their opinion on the ship some love it some hate it, I never begrudge other peoples opinions unless they insist it is fact for everyone.

I was OK with ship when I could ignore it, to me it was part of making the show broadly appeal to a lot of people. I do agree though that if they are not going to ignore it and make a deal out of it then they should just make a freaking decision and be done with it.

Also, I guess I should have been more clear on the "scifi fan" thing as I too am a great scifi fan and actually own all the B5 DVDs and the S1-most of S3 Farscape and S1-8 Stargate DVDs along with some of my favorite scifi movies and such. But there are some scifi fans that will watch any B rated scifi that comes out because THEIR imaginations can make up for lack of TPTB. Thus the scifi show doesnt have to be exceptionally good, it just has to have a relativly interesting premise. The majority of the Broader audience that Stargate had always gotten in the past were not really among that group I think. I think they were actually just watching a fun action adventure show that happened to be scifi.

[david2708]

Everyone has their opinion on the ship some love it some hate it, I never begrudge other peoples opinions unless they insist it is fact for everyone.

I was OK with ship when I could ignore it, to me it was part of making the show broadly appeal to a lot of people. I do agree though that if they are not going to ignore it and make a deal out of it then they should just make a freaking decision and be done with it.

Also, I guess I should have been more clear on the "scifi fan" thing as I too am a great scifi fan and actually own all the B5 DVDs and the S1-most of S3 Farscape and S1-8 Stargate DVDs along with some of my favorite scifi movies and such. But there are some scifi fans that will watch any B rated scifi that comes out because THEIR imaginations can make up for lack of TPTB. Thus the scifi show doesnt have to be exceptionally good, it just has to have a relativly interesting premise. The majority of the Broader audience that Stargate had always gotten in the past were not really among that group I think. I think they were actually just watching a fun action adventure show that happened to be scifi.

I always believed Stargate was never made for the serious scifi fan and I doubt if the show ever had much of an audience with that group. Scifi fans, I have always found are very picky.
I doubt whether TPTB would have changed tactic and targeted the true Scifi fan in latter seasons as someone said. For the hardcore Scifi Fan, Stargate is pretty much bottom of the barrel stuff.
After all, the Ori and their little band of medi-evil illiterate villagers who now magically fly starships- is pretty idiotic when you think about it for a minute or so.
I see Gate more these days as targeted toward the teenie Smallvillish type audience.
In the Episode threads, overall story or plot don't really matter. People seem to just require that individual 'scenes' be either funny or interesting to them : If Character A behaves 'funny', or says something 'funny' to Character B, then the ep is awsome and the best episode EVAH.
I think the more mature audience of Gate left long ago and were replaced more by a younger demographic.
And, as we know, the younger demographic is fickle and quick to move on to the next fad show.
They've moved on to Heroes, Supernatural etc and Gate is yesterdays news for them.
If Gate had taken more care of it's mature demographic, they would likely have kept their audience and not suffer the big drop off that they had in S9.
Atlantis shows signs of going the same way. Carson goes and is replaced by Jewel whatsaname.How long before Weir gets the chop because she's too 'old' for the teens.
It's amazing to think back to the eighties when the big nightime shows had all their major stars in their mid forties and onward ie. Linda Gray, Larry Hagman, Linda Evans, Joan Collins, John Forsythe etc.. The teenager was usually the token character! How things have changed!

[Skydiver]

so, in many ways, they've youthified (some might say dumbified) the show into non-existence.

by altering it to appeal to an ever fickle audience, they've lost most of the mature core that kept it on the air for years

[Jackie]

actually most "sci-fi" genre stories are aimed at young teenage boys. That has alsways been the target audiance ever since star trek. What the shows have forgotten is that targate audiance from star trek has now matured and whats a sci-fi show with more meat in it.

The "other" audiance they forgot about was the women--not girls. The woman audiance that grew up around star trek, battlestar gallatica (orignal) Knight Rider--all those old shows are also part of that mature audiance that the writers have neglected.

The target audiance now days is still young teenage boy but now the target teenage girls by putting "funny and witty" characters great looking guys.

Even targeting both genders they still forgot about the one core audiance they had for all those years--the adults.

I have noticed the show went VERY TEENIE in season 9. Season 1 was very adult. Comparing to two seasons (to me season 9 is season 1 of a spinn off show) you find that the target audiance has changed very much. They are targeting kids and not adults.

but as stated before--most of those kids will change shows like the wind. However, those kids are also the computer savy ones that will download the individual episodes and have the money to spend on box sets. Teen spanding has played into who the show is targateing for thier audiance.

The industry is marketing directly to teens even more aggressivly now than ever before. Due manly to the spending trends of the teens. (Of course--the teens of today are projected to have record credit card debt in ten years)

The industry realizes that the teens are a great way to make a quick buck. But instead of trying to find a way to balance the show and bring in elements to attract the younger crown and still keep the mature crowd they have just geared everything towards teens and thier spending habits.

The scary part is that the teens don't even know they are being targeted to spend money. They have no idea that the cred card companies are aggressivly handing out credit cards like candy. That the entertainment industry is directly marketing to them through the internet. I would say most season box seta are geared towards adults because of the extras and heavy price tag of a hundred plus bucks in retail stores. (that what it runs in my area)

The sad part is that the industry has abandon the adult audience just to make a buck from the teens--becuase they are twice as lickly to spend on entertainment than adults.

[Zoser]

actually most "sci-fi" genre stories are aimed at young teenage boys. That has alsways been the target audiance ever since star trek. What the shows have forgotten is that targate audiance from star trek has now matured and whats a sci-fi show with more meat in it.

The "other" audiance they forgot about was the women--not girls. The woman audiance that grew up around star trek, battlestar gallatica (orignal) Knight Rider--all those old shows are also part of that mature audiance that the writers have neglected.

Oh boy, I grew up with Captain Video, Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon (Buster Crabbe serial). I think Ming the Merciless was a Goa'uld!

The target audiance now days is still young teenage boy but now the target teenage girls by putting "funny and witty" characters great looking guys.

Even targeting both genders they still forgot about the one core audiance they had for all those years--the adults.

I have noticed the show went VERY TEENIE in season 9. Season 1 was very adult. Comparing to two seasons (to me season 9 is season 1 of a spinn off show) you find that the target audiance has changed very much. They are targeting kids and not adults.

but as stated before--most of those kids will change shows like the wind. However, those kids are also the computer savy ones that will download the individual episodes and have the money to spend on box sets. Teen spanding has played into who the show is targateing for thier audiance.

The industry is marketing directly to teens even more aggressivly now than ever before. Due manly to the spending trends of the teens. (Of course--the teens of today are projected to have record credit card debt in ten years)

The industry realizes that the teens are a great way to make a quick buck. But instead of trying to find a way to balance the show and bring in elements to attract the younger crown and still keep the mature crowd they have just geared everything towards teens and thier spending habits.

The scary part is that the teens don't even know they are being targeted to spend money. They have no idea that the cred card companies are aggressivly handing out credit cards like candy. That the entertainment industry is directly marketing to them through the internet. I would say most season box seta are geared towards adults because of the extras and heavy price tag of a hundred plus bucks in retail stores. (that what it runs in my area)

The sad part is that the industry has abandon the adult audience just to make a buck from the teens--becuase they are twice as lickly to spend on entertainment than adults.

I miss the show that addressed religion, mythology, politics, morality, ethics, pragmatism, and the view that Earth is the center of the universe (Terracentrism?).
When the ads ask 'What's in your wallet?' - I know. And I know how much where it is going to go. I'd rather the money I'd have spent on entertainment go to Philabundance or Second Harvest than be wasted on dreck.

[Jackie]

Oh boy, I grew up with Captain Video, Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon (Buster Crabbe serial). I think Ming the Merciless was a Goa'uld!

I miss the show that addressed religion, mythology, politics, morality, ethics, pragmatism, and the view that Earth is the center of the universe (Terracentrism?).
When the ads ask 'What's in your wallet?' - I know. And I know how much where it is going to go. I'd rather the money I'd have spent on entertainment go to Philabundance or Second Harvest than be wasted on dreck.

LMAO!!!

The what's in your wallet campain?!!!! Oh, boy...at first those commercials were cute. Now they are annoying...right up there with the Gieko commercial and the caveman. What the heck--the spokesman has to be either a caveman or a green little lizard? I half expect CAPTAIN CAVEMAN to pop out of a closet and pound someone over the head with his club. Then cook and eat the lizard.

It seems that when they do 'target' adult audiance it's still teenie bobber-ish. Bob the Enzyte guy sticks right out in my head. Who are they targeting? The mature (yes us oldies) people that can relate to the sixties or the kids with just how stupid it is? Perhaps both--but most adults would just go thier doctor if they have a problem. (especially if they are on medications already. You don't know what herbal products could react to Rx products.)

I have noticed that the commercials that skiffy shows are usuallly the same four comercials over and over and over again. If I wanted a Bowflex Body I would just cut and past my head on the models body--instant bowflex body.

Somehow, I find it hard to believe that skiffy is making HUGE bucks on advertising with the same block of adds. I bet they give huge discounts to Bowflex, Enzyte, Dominos and Capital One. (as if credit cards weren't bad enough on TV but I also get at least 10 credit card offers a week in the mailbox.)


oh boy--we should petition skiffy for better commercials.

[Skydiver]

not just that, how about the endless cialis and viagra commercials????

it's got to be a cultural phenomenon that so much money adn time is spent pushing a product that has no real health benefit beyond the happy feelings of the masculine part of the population

[Jackie]

not just that, how about the endless cialis and viagra commercials????

it's got to be a cultural phenomenon that so much money adn time is spent pushing a product that has no real health benefit beyond the happy feelings of the masculine part of the population

LOL!

Oh, and the listed side effects for those medications are eyebrow raising. "If experience an (you know what) lasting 6 HOURS call a doctor." Heck--call Ripley's!

As an EMT we have to ask if a heart pateint is taking Viagra or any of those types of medications, because if we give him a Nitro tablet it could kill them. Unsafe drop in BP is an understatement. The medicaions work by dilating bloof vessels--there is actual other uses for the Viagra and Cialis--some women can take it for other medical problems--but they won't tell you that.

I cannot understand why drug compaines spend so much money on advertising a product that only a doctor can give you. As doctors push medications enough as it is. They don't need to advertise them.

[Gregorius]

it's got to be a cultural phenomenon that so much money adn time is spent pushing a product that has no real health benefit beyond the happy feelings of the masculine part of the population

Actually that's not entirely true. Viagra has also been described to people with heart and lung problems (See this link and this link).

[Rogue]

not just that, how about the endless cialis and viagra commercials????

it's got to be a cultural phenomenon that so much money adn time is spent pushing a product that has no real health benefit beyond the happy feelings of the masculine part of the population

How about Bob and his male enhancement. How many sexual innuendos do they need to put in one commercial to get their point across? I also heard that company was being sued because it didn't perform as promised.

Its really bad on Spike TV.

[Skydiver]

but it's not advertised for that. every single cialis/viagra commercial i see is fixing masculine equipment problems

cause that's where the money is.

i'm just sick and tired of seeing them every frakking time i turn on the tv.

[Jackie]

How about Bob and his male enhancement. How many sexual innuendos do they need to put in one commercial to get their point across? I also heard that company was being sued because it didn't perform as promised.

Its really bad on Spike TV.

LOL--now in defense of Enzyte the company never claimed it would give the consumer an actual erection. It said it would give you BOOST of confidence and SWELLING of pride. LMAO.