S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Rogue]

I agree that Sam shows more leadership than Cam.

And as for having 2 higher ranking people on one team. It was stretching things to have Col. O'Neill and Maj. Carter (after her promotion), but at least by then they had a history together and had built a unique team that was more than the sum of its parts. The show was about the 4 of them, so I didn't worry about it.

But it's really stretching things in my book to put someone of Sam's rank on the team with her. If she's not going to lead I as a viewer need a d***ed good reason and I didn't get it. They didn't even write a scene showing why she came back to the team. I know, the Bori threat-- but it was never really fleshed out. I *wanted* her back, but I also wanted it to make some sense. One week she's brought in to help with the bomb (which to me didn't really seem to require her special skills--couldn't they have given her something more to do in her return episode?) and the next thing we know she's back at the SGC.

Yeah I was disappointed in her return and contribution since then. Jack use to rely on Sams knowledge/skill to bail them out. But now its about shoving crystals into devices and kicking the console to get things to work.

It seems that the reason for Sam leaving and returning where just an after thought. She is the girl, make up something, nobody will care.

[bcfc]

That's mostly why I avoid them. I know that most people in them probably enjoyed the eps, and if I posted any issues I had with them I'd probably get in trouble or something.... and I don't want to ruin anything for them either.

I like to stay where I'm more apt to find like-minded people anyway.

I dont want to start arguments with you I respect your opinion, but if you did go to the episode thread you might find that there are people who will let you state your negatives about the episodes and value your comments.

Dont think that everyones all the same.

[Skydiver]

i know that all opinions are welcome there....i just don't feel like it's nice to go in with all the squeeing people and un-squee.

let them enjoy the show in peace

[MediaSavant]

i try to leave the eps threads for those that enjoy the show. I may and sometimes do go in and express myself, but i try to bail after a short time and just let them revel in thier enjoyment without me ruining it for them

I've only been around Stargate fandom for a year and a half now, but this is one of the oddest things I've found about it.

When I was in both Babylon 5 fandom and Farscape fandom, people who thought both positively and negatively (or anything in between) discussed episodes together. That was what was invigorating about it. The vast majority of fans, myself included, could like some episodes, dislike others and openly discuss their opinions with others.

But, Stargate fandom seems to have split into forums of "pros" and "cons" with no place for people who are "in between" to discuss the show. I've spoiled myself on the latest episode by delving into the discussion thread, but the discussion is so relentlessly "greatest episode ever" it too much to be believed. It can't possibly by that good. I would really love to see some more even-handed reviews to really get a sense of the episode and actually read some interesting observations, but they don't seem to exist.

So, it's sad to hear that you and others don't express themselves. I don't know when Stargate fandom became so segregated in their discussions, but it doesn't make for an interesting forum or intellectually stimulating place.

Sometimes I've been tempted to start a section called the "Ambivalent Season 10 discussion thread" for people who are neither "pro" 100% of the time or "anti" 100% of the time. I wonder how many people would join in.

[Gregorius]

Sometimes I've been tempted to start a section called the "Ambivalent Season 10 discussion thread" for people who are neither "pro" 100% of the time or "anti" 100% of the time. I wonder how many people would join in.

Good idea but it wouldn't work here on GW due to a small fraction of the members that would do everything in their power to get the thread closed with ad hominem attacks ad nauseam.

The sad truth is that the "Anti-threads" are the only places where you can still discuss Stargate with a small chance of being lynched by said fraction.

[ShardsofGlass]

Good idea but it wouldn't work here on GW due to a small fraction of the members that would do everything in their power to get the thread closed with ad hominem attacks ad nauseam.

The sad truth is that the "Anti-threads" are the only places where you can still discuss Stargate with a small chance of being lynched by said fraction.

I would LOVE to see an ambivalent thread like Media Savant suggested. I feel the same way she does about the pro versus anti factions at Gateworld. However, unlike Gregorius, I worry that the thread would be taken over by the anti sentiments because that's been my experience on this site. That people with very strong negative opinions about particular things express those same opinions over and over until it takes over the discussion.

But maybe with stronger ground rules that wouldn't happen. I don't know.

[Gregorius]

However, unlike Gregorius, I worry that the thread would be taken over by the anti sentiments because that's been my experience on this site. That people with very strong negative opinions about particular things express those same opinions over and over until it takes over the discussion.

I said "a small fraction of the members" which can consist of anti and pro. The problem is that either side has extremes who can't discuss but rather fight their differences out.

The only way such a topic would work, would be when the people participating in it start ignore inflamitory posts made by said fraction. Sadly there will always be people that will respond to those posts and then they'll take over the thread.

[warmbeachbrat]

I would LOVE to see an ambivalent season 10 thread. While I really enjoyed season 9 *dodges tomatoes*, I think season 10 has been more uneven. I've totally loved some episodes and really despised others (well, at least really despised aspects of the episodes--it would be nice to discuss that). I don't hate season 10, but I don't love it either. A thread with discussion rather than total dissing or total advocating would be good. *sigh* It's sad that I had to revise the previous sentence about four times to try not to offend anyone....

[LaCroix]

I do believe there's a General Discussion Thread for season 10 that's for everyone. Here's a link http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....33&postcount=1.

[pittsburghgirl]

a great deal of polarization is very evident in this fandom.

I don't really know how, why or when it happened but if you go into certain threads to discuss pros/cons or opinions or whatever they tend to be either one way or the other and heaven help you if you don't go with the prevaling winds.

I don't think that the episode discussion threads were supposed to be one side or the other-i believe they were supposed to be an honest discussion of what is good, bad or indifferent-however, it is my not so humble opinion that outside forces and sometimes even those involved with the show tended to instigate the polarization.

would any of us love to discuss the shows without worrying-sure would-but until all sides are willing to stop the armed conflict-I am not so sure that will happen.

[MediaSavant]

I guess, as relative newbie, I'm curious as to why Stargate fandom is organized this way. Was it always "black" and "white" or did it become that way somewhere along the way? Is it because of the psychology of Stargate fans is unique in some way or is it the natural result of a show that's been on this long?

[Skydiver]

there's a lot of factors

first of all, a good half of the fandom hasn't even seen the episode...nor will we for month thanks to the bonehead greed of scifi. Only the UK and some folks in canada have seen the new stuff.

if 'anti' as in folks that aren't squeeing in mindless glee over it being the 'greatest show evah' go into the discussion thread, we are usually hounded and taken to task for 'well if you don't love it why the heck are you even here'

folks that aren't in mindless joy come to places like this thread, and are even hounded and trolled here whereas i can't recall the last time i read a reported post of an 'anti' going into the pro thread and trolling them. Pro fans come into this thread and red rep any that post here. they pm them, taking them to task for their opinions, they attack them on other forums.

Many folks here can't separate discussion from attack. It's not enough to merely go in, express their opinion and have it respected. Doing that quite often results in petty little attacks by those that refuse to respect the opinions of others.

If i got into the eps thred and say 'man, that was teh biggest waste of time. can i have that hour of my life back? and who the heck decided that cameron needed to be turned into a woman' ...the respnse will be 'well, if you hated it that much, why are you even here'

It's also not helped by members of TPTB expressing the opinion that anyone that doesnt' like the show must 'have issues' or are 'too stupid' to understand it. By thier very words, they validate those that love the show regardless and tell anyone that doesn't to bugger off.

THe show has not been perfect, it never has been perfect. However it WAS more well liked a few years ago than it is now. The ratings testify to that fact. And all the squashing of opinions in the world won't change it.

and from the pov of a person that was on the other side 4 years ago (i loved and still do season 6 but was constantly harrassed and trolled and insulted for daring to love it and told in excruciating detail how stupid adn deluded i was) i say let them mindlessly squee. Let them have their fun. They don't want discussion or they wouldn't go about trolling and attacking any and all that don't share their opinions.

[Skydiver]

back in the dark ages, teh fandom used to be one. but then this icky thing happened...there was a 'love triangle'....ie jack/daniel fans on one side...and they didn't like sam/jack. and sam/jack fans who, most of them, weren't fans of slash.

most of the original stargate fansites were created by folks that were fans of hte jack/daniel dynamic. Jack/sam was a threat to thet, but an ignorable one until Upgrades and D&C and then all of the 'you're jsut some silly shipper' had 'proof' that they were right, that there WAS something between sam and jack. (ship fans used to be dismissed with 'you're just a silly hormonal girl projecting', which beget the 'we weren't projecting, we were right' motto of some shippers)


well the daniel/jack (who call themselves team, which really means daniel and his sidekicks to soem) evicted the shippers. They were booted off lists, thier fic were taken down or not allowed on archives, etc.

the shippers just made thier own lists and groups, but it was an escalating battle because, throughout s4, there was more and more 'proof' that they were right. there was something between sam and jack. and every 'victory' for the shippers was an insult to those that didn't like it.

it all came to a head in s6 when MS left teh show. Needless to say the jack/daniel folks weren't too happy while many ship fans didn't care.

season 6 was a warzone, that wasn't helped at all by members of tptb playing online and rousing the rabble. some of them, my opinion, deliberately tried to keep things stirred up...and fans fell for it.

then comes s7 and the jack/daniel folks 'win' and daniel returns.

a lot of the old timers have left. many have moved onto atlantis. but some are still here, but the show has seen a huge influx of people. a lot of them farscape fans. it's changed the dynamics.

the intolerance is still the same. the lack of respect. the need to backbite and harrass. I have never posted on OurStargate, yet i know if i ever went over there i would either be banned or be placed on moderation from the getgo because the folks that run it dont' like the ship group i belong to. I used to be on the same lists with a lot of the ardent daniel fans, but the very same people who were my friends then decided that i wasn't worth knowing when i wouldnt' back or participate in their campaign to save daniel.

This fandom has been fragmented since season 3/4 and will be fragmented until the day it dies.

This intolerance amongst the general fans is just the most current incarnation. To some, it is inconceivable that someone can watch a show and not love every single aspect. and seem to have a self appointed mission to convince every single 'non believer' to see the error of thier ways.

ETA: that this is my personal opinion and rememberance of events. for a more rounded pov, you may wish to ask the recollections of folks that were on 'the other side'.

the truth is likely somewhere in the middle

[grasshopper64]

It's sad that there has to be so much animosity whoever it comes from.
I only really got into stargate fandom fairly recently, but there does seem to be a lot of polarization.

As someone said earlier other TV shows don't seem to have had this issue, people can discuss likes and dislikes without it turning into warfare

Yes the eps threads are full of a lot of people who will say every ep is brilliant and the best ever, but that shouldn't stop people who didn't like the eps going in and saying so or saying things they didn't like about said ep.
I usually go in and post honestly how I saw an ep, what I like or didn't like about it.

I put myself in the anti camp right now because I don't like the way the show was changed in S9 and continues for the most part in S10. That's not to say there's things about the show I can't like because I do. S10 has been better than S9 but too little too late I'd say.
If I like an ep, I'll say so. For example I liked The Quest Pt 2, but IMO it certainly wasn't the best ep ever, perhaps the best in S10 so far, but there are still things I could find fault with, call me a nit-picker
I don't agree with everything I see on this thread but I'm glad it's here because I can come and criticize things about the show I don't like without getting flamed. (well hopefully)

I've also seen many constructive suggestions here for how the changes in the show could have been better dealt with, but it seems to me TPTB haven't heard of constructive criticism. Yep we're supposed to love everything they do and if we don't tough

[jckfan55]

a great deal of polarization is very evident in this fandom.

I don't really know how, why or when it happened but if you go into certain threads to discuss pros/cons or opinions or whatever they tend to be either one way or the other and heaven help you if you don't go with the prevaling winds.

I don't think that the episode discussion threads were supposed to be one side or the other-i believe they were supposed to be an honest discussion of what is good, bad or indifferent-however, it is my not so humble opinion that outside forces and sometimes even those involved with the show tended to instigate the polarization.

would any of us love to discuss the shows without worrying-sure would-but until all sides are willing to stop the armed conflict-I am not so sure that will happen.

If this episode discussion threads are really pro-episode fronts, no wonder TPTB who check in here think everything they do is golden.