S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Sum1]

My favorite is Hathor the psychopath! The crazier the Goa'uld the more fun to write. I can let my evil side out to have fun...you know...things you can't do in real life. Like execute someone that irritates you to no end.

I agree that Hathor was a great villain. One of the things I didn't like in the early years was how the different goa'uld system lords appeared in only a few episodes before being killed off. It would have been nicer to see them developed some more, especially in interactions with one another that would have highlighted the differences between them. Then again, the show was about exploration and not about the war with the goa'uld like seasons 4 through 8, so the goa'uld didn't need play such a major role in the first three seasons in terms of constant appearances and attempts to kill SG-1.

[esoap524]

I am constantly amazed by all the wonderful ideas people can come up with that actually would make sense. I have no idea how professional writers could drop the ball and then keep kicking it around to the degree they have done it. They have taken one of the best Scifi TV shows and turned it into a spoof of itself. A bad spoof..

I think there are a few things driving this. I'm a fan fic writer; most of my stories are character driven. Most of the fan fic I've read that's any good is character driven.

SG1, in its current incarnation and, even to some extent, in its prior incarnation, tends to be more plot driven. I think when plot drives a story you have characters doing strange things to move the plot along; it's easier to make a new character a "plot device" because they don't have an established history.

I don't think that SG1 was a character arc driven show even before season 9. However, because it had the history of the movie and was able to build itself from the ground up, there was probably more thought paid to the characters early on. In the case of season 9, it just seems like the writers were so happy to have another year, and to have cast a couple of actors (or 3, since they also had Beau Bridges) who are capable and popular in this genre, they didn't spend a lot of time developing characters.

If you read or listen to the interviews post season 9, they're all about the story: the Ori, the defeat of the Gou'ald, the scattered remains of the Jaffa, the introduction of the Orici. They're not talking about how Vala starts off as a heartless thief, for example, but is transformed due to the people around her, or how Cameron Mitchell, still carrying guilt from the accidental killing of civilians in what he thought was an enemy convoy, finds redemption in working with SG1. Or how Landry and Lam finally find common ground to move towards resolution of their long standing family feud...

...or how Daniel might find out something new about himself through his interactions with a woman who defies every rule he's followed. or how Teal'c becomes a dynamic leader of his people in the void that's left. Or how Carter finds her voice through co-leading, or leading, or maybe is just really surprised at being petty because she's NOT leading...

Those are all character things. We get a little bit of the Vala thing in Morpheus when she talks about how one person finally believes in her enough for her to believe in herself. It's probably one of my favorite Vala scenes because it's dead on for the character.

24 episodes. That's about it, character-wise.

to be fair to the professionals, I am absolutely sure that working on a tight deadline and having to balance a multitude of tasks takes its toll. Not being a professional writer myself, I couldn't say.

[Skydiver]

i do have to say, devil's advocate

we fanfic writers may have 'better' ideas...but we also don't have actors saying 'i won't say that' 'i have a doctor's appt and can't be on set tomorrow' 'i don't want to spend 3 days in that suit'...or directors saying 'yeah, well we can't afford to blow it up' 'we don't have an hour to restage this shot' 'we can't afford the effects' nor do we have network execs saying 'yes, well she's so and so's sister, so she gets the role' 'your budget is ......'

and so on and so on

I am free to write teal'c as i see him. same with jack or sam or daniel or jonas. I have no special effects budget nor do i have a deadline to meet. I write what i want, when i want and my only quality control is the level i hold myself to.

we fanfic writers also have the luxury of hindsight.

[JessM]

For me, the main problem with Vala is Vaniel - we hardly ever see Vala the character, all we see is half of Vaniel. When Daniel is around, Vala is glued to his side and doesn't get the opportunity to be a character in her own right.

I don't think that Vaniel is doing Daniel any favours either, but at least Daniel has had nearly eight seasons (cumulatively) plus a movie without Vala around in which to develop his own character. Vala has not had this chance.

As long as Daniel is around and he and Vala are joined at the hip, Vala is not going to get a chance to be a character, she'll be half of Vaniel.

That's it in a nutshell. Daniel is absent from 4 episodes in S10. 4 episodes is not enough for her to be a character IMO (and actually she should be able to be her own character even when Daniel IS there... but we know how likely THAT is...).

[JessM]

Vala has huge potential. Her background as a host to Quetesh is a great start. Even the time as a thief is good. If they had wrote Vala to be more shrewed and little more mature, I think that character would be fantastic.

However, the current writting for Vala is centered around Daniel and childlike behavior. When Vala does show some maturity it is good. But the character needed to be shrewed and mature from the begining. Her being a former thief doesn't bother me--it's the general child like statements and behavior that the writers think is cute and funny that irritates me.

The interactions between Vala and Daniel is not appealing to me in the least. I cannot see how some have come to the conclusion that they have sexual tension or should be a couple. That just blows my mind because they really don't have good chemistry together. Their timing is not great and the delivery of lines are too over the top. When MS keeps Daniel in a calmer state--that interaction is better than when they are bickering and fighting. (the moonlighting effect was never real-only worked for David and Maddy) IMO--it's better to have two main characters give sublte glances and linger to long then it is to have 3 stooges bickering. (I guess some men would find it funny though. Hubby thinks it's cute--he loves the 3 stooges though.)

"Vaniel" is not a romantic combo. It's like watching two little kids fight and taunt eachother. Daniel actually turns into a bully around Vala. I hate the interaction for most of thier screen time.

Vala interacts far better with Sam, Mitchell and Teal'c. (IMO--Vala and Teal'c have great timing.)

"Vaniel" needs to go...nothing like having to have them sit in seperate corners for the rest of the season.

Couldn't agree more. I think it would have been interesting to explore what Sam and Vala have in common - having been hosts (Sam to Jolinar and Vala to Qetesh). It would have allowed their friendship to develop a bit more and in turn would show that Vala can stand more on her own as a character without being attached to Daniel, and can be good friends with everyone else.

Sadly this has as much chance of happening as that of ice-skating on Netu.

[esoap524]

i do have to say, devil's advocate

we fanfic writers may have 'better' ideas...but we also don't have actors saying 'i won't say that' 'i have a doctor's appt and can't be on set tomorrow' 'i don't want to spend 3 days in that suit'...or directors saying 'yeah, well we can't afford to blow it up' 'we don't have an hour to restage this shot' 'we can't afford the effects' nor do we have network execs saying 'yes, well she's so and so's sister, so she gets the role' 'your budget is ......'

and so on and so on

I am free to write teal'c as i see him. same with jack or sam or daniel or jonas. I have no special effects budget nor do i have a deadline to meet. I write what i want, when i want and my only quality control is the level i hold myself to.

we fanfic writers also have the luxury of hindsight.

Indeed...and doing "justice" to our favorites, or rewriting what we perceive as "mistakes."

and, as you say, hindsight, which is a big factor.

[esoap524]

Couldn't agree more. I think it would have been interesting to explore what Sam and Vala have in common - having been hosts (Sam to Jolinar and Vala to Qetesh). It would have allowed their friendship to develop a bit more and in turn would show that Vala can stand more on her own as a character without being attached to Daniel, and can be good friends with everyone else.

Sadly this has as much chance of happening as that of ice-skating on Netu.

Ditto on the agreement scale. To show a lively relationship between two very different women who have such a unique thing in common (taken as hosts) could possibly have ended up in chemistry on the level of Jack and Daniel--two very different people, with very different perspectives, with something in common.

Not to mention, allowing the actresses to get some screentime together in this mostly male dominated world.

And I also want to throw in my 2 cents regarding Vala's potential--I really despise the immaturity we've seen in a lot of season 10. It wasn't as pronounced in season 9. Yeah, she was sexed up and oversexed but she was clearly--clearly--in charge. I actually prefer that version, for all its "faults."

A character can be emotionally immature without acting like a 6 year old. It requires more subtlety in the characterization; I've seen CB do subtle on Farscape. She's more than up to the task.

[Jackie]

Would have been nice to have more Carter/Vala eps in the series. They seem to have made Carter into a hat rack for Mitchell's missing pants.

[esoap524]

Would have been nice to have more Carter/Vala eps in the series. They seem to have made Carter into a hat rack for Mitchell's missing pants.

ROTFLMAO!!! There is a smutty fan fic in that remark but I don't have the wherewithall to write it.

I'm sure someone else will (see how fan fic writers can be so responsive )

I'd like to be the hat rack for Mitchell's pants

[Skydiver]

Would have been nice to have more Carter/Vala eps in the series. They seem to have made Carter into a hat rack for Mitchell's missing pants.

LOLOL

and teal'c is holding up that pants rack

although..Pants can be a good description of s10 to many viewers.

[Skydiver]

i would LOVE to see the 'girls' off on an adventure

there's such potential there.

avante guarde vala, risque and adventurous. sam, who's a bit quieter adn stedier...but an adrenaline junkie at her core. vala envying sam her friends and place in the SGC, sam maybe envying vala the freedom to do and say what she wants

sam jointly wishing she had vala's control over the goauld toys and spooked that she has the control and ease of use

vala wishing that she had sam's acceptance and friends, while kinda liking not having hte responsibility

they'd be identitical opposites and it'd be great to see them interacting. i think it'd only enrich both of them

[the dancer of spaz]

i would LOVE to see the 'girls' off on an adventure

there's such potential there.

avante guarde vala, risque and adventurous. sam, who's a bit quieter adn stedier...but an adrenaline junkie at her core. vala envying sam her friends and place in the SGC, sam maybe envying vala the freedom to do and say what she wants

sam jointly wishing she had vala's control over the goauld toys and spooked that she has the control and ease of use

vala wishing that she had sam's acceptance and friends, while kinda liking not having hte responsibility

they'd be identitical opposites and it'd be great to see them interacting. i think it'd only enrich both of them

*considers*

Nah... Too deep. And it'd take too much work. Sorry, Sky. You've been shot down.

Plus, there's that pesky issue of there being two females in that relationship. We all know that the most successful and popular relationship pairings of any kind on Stargate have either one female and one male or two guys. But if you can wedge a guy in there for an oh-so-original love triangle, that'd be gold.

[Skydiver]

spirals in in a blaze of glory and flame and smoke

psheeeewwwwwwww


splat

oh well, if i think i can ever tolerate her, this is one scenario where the fic writers will just have to 'fix' what the pros can't/won't do

[majorsal]

That's how I feel... my problem is more with Vala than with Cam.

I'm really not looking forward to the first movie. Just speculating here, but if it's going to tie up the bori storyline, I'm betting

Spoiler:

something may happen to Adria - either she is killed or incapacitated in some other way... huge angst for Vala who knows the kid is evil but the maternal instinct thing kicks in and she gets really upset... Enter the second half of Vaniel who comforts her for the remaining hour and ten minutes of the movie.

let's hope a miracle happens and things *don't* go the way of the daniel/vala show.





sally

[majorsal]

The first 6 episodes were crucial in: A-establishing the new enemy. B-explaining the new people. C-establishing the relationships between the old cast and new cast. D-establishing the situation between the two shows that do tie in together. E-establishing the new "male" lead. F-establishing a new female lead that is likeable from the start. Can't establish a character as a lead that half the viewers hate. G-establish Landry as a leader. H-establish time frames. K-establish order of events...especially when they tie into another sister series. L-establish situations with old characters. Asgard, Nox, Furlings ect. All of these task were fallen short on by the producers and writers of the show.

while i agree with your post, this highlighted part is something i don't. SAM is the female lead, even with her missing the first 5 eps.

just saying (and i liked your post )




sally