S10: Critique & Contemplation

[pittsburghgirl]

So I just read about the SG-1 pewter figures. All the members are sold indviudally except Teal'c. To get a Teal'c you have to buy a pack that includes Mitchell.

Teal'c, in an olive uniform, is available as an exclusive when purchased in a four-pack that includes the olive-garbed Mitchell, Carter, and Jackson. Each figurine, except for Teal'c, is also sold individually.

So If I want to buy the "classic" team, I am forced to buy a Mitchell too.

that i find quite bizarre.

[Mandysg1]

I'm lost. Would someone direct me to the anti-S10 thread, please? Thanks!

I know, what's going on, it seems like everything just floats in here now

[ReganX]

So I just read about the SG-1 pewter figures. All the members are sold indvidually except Teal'c. To get a Teal'c you have to buy a pack that includes Mitchell.

Teal'c, in an olive uniform, is available as an exclusive when purchased in a four-pack that includes the olive-garbed Mitchell, Carter, and Jackson. Each figurine, except for Teal'c, is also sold individually.

So If I want to buy the "classic" team, I am forced to buy a Mitchell too.

You could always buy the set and bin/burn the Mitchell doll.

[LaCroix]

You could always buy the set and bin/burn the Mitchell doll.

Or put it up on ebay. I'm sure someone would buy it.

[Mandysg1]

Or put it up on ebay. I'm sure someone would buy it.

Oh, I think I know just the person ^^

[esoap524]

You have good points. My main point is that when the Korean War ended, the MASH show ended. Now I've come to believe that SG-1 should have ended at the defeat of the Goa'uld. That would be at the end of Season 8.

Oh, point well taken.

MASH tried the post Korean war route with no success. "Cheers" tried the post "Cheers" route with "Frasier" with much success; my point here is that it was the expectation that didn't do SG1 any favors.

If SG1 had ceased to exist as it had been known seasons 1-8, then "spun off" in a new directions with maybe one established character and a NEW name, perhaps then expectations wouldn't have been as high and the audience would have been a lot more forgiving.

I don't think the actors are to blame, or even the characters necessarily. It's trying to meld characters with 8 years of history and shove in that much backstory for new characters in a handful of episodes. It doesn't work.

Keeping the SG1 name, and the premise, but then not really living up to the premise because you couldn't possibly, being that so much of the show's success depended on the chemistry between the team...that's what, I think, ultimately hurt the show.

It seems like there was this great dependency on two things--the name/brand of the show and the name of the actor(s) who were hired. That resulted in lazy writing; had the show been a newer thing, like Atlantis (although, I'm not a fan of that show but I know many folks are), then the writers likely would have had to put a lot more thought into the process of creating characters and scenarios for these characters as opposed to counting on built in, yet somewhat oppositional, fanbases for the show and the new actors.

And you could have still hired the same actors but used a slightly different premise. Law & Order does it all the time.

Of course, all my opinion, as always.

[AGateFan]

So I just read about the SG-1 pewter figures. All the members are sold indvidually except Teal'c. To get a Teal'c you have to buy a pack that includes Mitchell.

Teal'c, in an olive uniform, is available as an exclusive when purchased in a four-pack that includes the olive-garbed Mitchell, Carter, and Jackson. Each figurine, except for Teal'c, is also sold individually.

So If I want to buy the "classic" team, I am forced to buy a Mitchell too.

Bwahahahahahahaa. How lame.

[ReganX]

I don't think the actors are to blame, or even the characters necessarily. It's trying to meld characters with 8 years of history and shove in that much backstory for new characters in a handful of episodes. It doesn't work.

I think that it could have worked out a lot better if the changes hadn’t been so abrupt. Looking as Season Nine, it seems that TPTB became enamored of Vala at the beginning of the season and concentrated on her, without showing as much of Mitchell – maybe they knew that there was a better than fair chance that they would be bringing the character back and wanted the audience to get to know and like her during the brief time she was to be there – and then, after she left, they were scrambling to play catch up with Mitchell… leaving very little time for the rest of the cast.

To be honest, I think that the ‘CMOH-winning hero of the battle over Antarctica getting the band back together’ storyline was very poorly chosen and executed. If the only way Mitchell could be brought on board was by dismantling SG-1, then the writers needed to rethink Mitchell’s character. Having Sam, Daniel and Teal’c welcoming (or maybe, at first, not welcoming) Mitchell onto their team and adjusting to working with somebody outside their circle would have been far more fitting than having Mitchell reunite a team that was broken up purely to facilitate his inclusion in it.

I firmly believe that Mitchell as a major, either transferred from another team or recruited for the SGC and given the chance to be on SG-1 would have worked out much better than Lt Colonel Mitchell did.

Bringing new characters onboard would have been doable, had it been done differently.

One thing I think TPTB should have remembered is that while it was important to show something of the new characters and to allow the audience to get to know them and care about them (as opposed to shoving sob stories about the new character down their throats: seeing his dad lose his leg, accidentally killing a bunch of innocent civilians and causing the death of a close friend through recklessness, all within three episodes, was far too much as far as Mitchell was concerned. One would have been enough) it was just as important, perhaps even more so, to ensure that the original characters were not neglected.

Keeping the SG1 name, and the premise, but then not really living up to the premise because you couldn't possibly, being that so much of the show's success depended on the chemistry between the team...that's what, I think, ultimately hurt the show.

Trying to pass “Stargate Command” off as “Stargate: SG-1” was a foolish move, in my opinion. Regardless of the reasons for continuing as SG-1, if TPTB were going to be calling the show “Stargate: SG-1”, they should have continued to make “Stargate: SG-1”.

If I buy a tub of ice cream labeled as mint, only to discover that it is really banana ice cream, poorly dyed green, I’m going to be exceptionally ticked off and more than a little nauseas. At least if the banana ice cream had been labeled as such, even if there was no mint available, I wouldn’t have been sold something under false pretences.

It seems like there was this great dependency on two things--the name/brand of the show and the name of the actor(s) who were hired. That resulted in lazy writing; had the show been a newer thing, like Atlantis (although, I'm not a fan of that show but I know many folks are), then the writers likely would have had to put a lot more thought into the process of creating characters and scenarios for these characters as opposed to counting on built in, yet somewhat oppositional, fanbases for the show and the new actors.

Using the existing fanbases for both the show and the new actors as an excuse to take short cuts was bound to end badly. Even the most devoted fan of a show can stop watching if what they loved about it is gone, just as somebody who is a huge fan of an actor may find that they simply cannot enjoy his/her character if the writing of said character is poor.

Mitchell and Vala should have been written as they would have been if completely unknown actors were playing them. Actors with an existing fanbase would have been an advantage, but it wouldn’t have been a crutch.

[majorsal]

I think that's one of the reasons Season 9 etc. was such a disaster.

Stunt casting.

Because my beloved Ben was not hired because he had such stunning chemistry with Chris, Amanda and Michael. He has some chemistry with Chris, the vibe with Amanda continues to feel forced to me 99% of the time and as for Michael? He (Michael) confessed at the beginning of Season 10 that they were still trying to "figure out" their chemistry.

He certainly wasn't hired because they had such a bang up idea for his character. Ben stated that they didn't want to nail anything down with him...thus the whole schizo aspect of his personality. As has been discussed, in order for him to "fit in" (and I use that terminology in the loosest of possible ways), they had to completely deconstruct the team. Further, as also has been discussed, the reality is that if Mitchell disappeared, SG-1 would not really be losing anything. He could be shot down in battle and it'd be sad for a few seconds...but they'd move on pretty quickly I think because there's really nothing all that special about him. I about choked when he hinted in Uninivited

Spoiler:

that he was Special Ops trained

.

I think Claudia is a better fit because I think her character is multidimensional and I can sense oodles of chemistry with all the originals. I don't like how she was brought into the team...I think it was a cop-out and a bit cliche...but I see potential there at least...whereas Mitchell is just another hot shot pilot with a 'tude.

while i agree that vala is a more interesting character, she is also a HUGE anvil in the room. mitchell and vala were poorly written from the get-go, but vala has literally been given the show (with her side-kick daniel). so, for me, HER being on the show is more disruptive than mitchell (whom i think was fixed in season 10). did i use the word 'whom' correctly? it's just more in-your-face with her being in your face the vast majority of the time. in my opinion.



sally

[ReganX]

while i agree that vala is a more interesting character, she is also a HUGE anvil in the room. mitchell and vala were poorly written from the get-go, but vala has literally been given the show (with her side-kick daniel). so, for me, HER being on the show is more disruptive than mitchell (whom i think was fixed in season 10). did i use the word 'whom' correctly? it's just more in-your-face with her being in your face the vast majority of the time. in my opinion.



sally

That's a problem, but it's not an impossible obstacle. If TPTB can bring themselves to ensure that the movies do not become all about Vala, and ensure that Vaniel and the accompanying cheap jokes are kept to a minimum, she can work out. She plays quite well opposite Teal'c and Sam and, as ÜberSG-1Fan pointed out, CB has good chemistry with the original cast.

[Mandysg1]

while i agree that vala is a more interesting character, she is also a HUGE anvil in the room. mitchell and vala were poorly written from the get-go, but vala has literally been given the show (with her side-kick daniel). so, for me, HER being on the show is more disruptive than mitchell (whom i think was fixed in season 10). did i use the word 'whom' correctly? it's just more in-your-face with her being in your face the vast majority of the time. in my opinion.



sally

They may have tried to fix him, but not very well IMO (see Oooober's post), I just can't watch him, S9 ruined the character and no matter what they do, it's too little too late. I don't care for Vala either, she makes no sense

[Nolamom]

CB has good chemistry with the original cast.

That's true. Actually, most of the time I like Vala. I'd like her more in smaller doses. Season 10 has been frustrating ... seeing my favorite characters wallpapered in favor of *NEW* bleah.... who was it who said:

[esoap524]

... it seems that TPTB became enamored of Vala at the beginning of the season and concentrated on her, without showing as much of Mitchell – maybe they knew that there was a better than fair chance that they would be bringing the character back and wanted the audience to get to know and like her during the brief time she was to be there – and then, after she left, they were scrambling to play catch up with Mitchell… leaving very little time for the rest of the cast.

I had the same feeling re: Vala and Mitchell. TPTB had Claudia for a limited block of time and they were going to use her for all she was worth. That being said, they didn't do much with Mitchell.

I actually thought the best Mitchell stuff was pre-Vala (bearing in mind, even, my pov which is highly Claudia-centric); we saw Mitchell flashing-back to his injuries, then meeting with Landry. Landry's comment about there being a chink in the armor piqued my interest--here was a hard charging, highly ambitious perfectionist by the book kind of guy walking into a brand new world over which he'd have little control. Cool. Lots of potential conflict.

Then...Vala walks thru the gate (looking fabulous ) and *poof* Mitchell's gone.

THEN...Vala leaves. Vala, whose characterization dictated that she would do the "wrong" thing--pull that lever, steal that coin, take the stone, what have you. Those actions moved the plot along BUT they were also well within her characterization, being that she is the non-military, mercenary, curious, and marches to the beat of a different drummer. Once she's gone, someone has to do the Vala thing, and that someone becomes Mitchell. I can't remember the name of the episode--"Prototype" maybe--but when Mitchell pulls some lever to release that guy, I thought "that is a Vala thing, not a Mitchell thing." At that point, Mitchell became a plot device.

To be honest, I think that the ‘CMOH-winning hero of the battle over Antarctica getting the band back together’ storyline was very poorly chosen and executed. If the only way Mitchell could be brought on board was by dismantling SG-1, then the writers needed to rethink Mitchell’s character. Having Sam, Daniel and Teal’c welcoming (or maybe, at first, not welcoming) Mitchell onto their team and adjusting to working with somebody outside their circle would have been far more fitting than having Mitchell reunite a team that was broken up purely to facilitate his inclusion in it.

I agree--I can't stand the whole hero concept anyway, no matter what show I'm watching. I like my leads a little frakked up, unsure, past screw ups perhaps. In a way, Carter was introduced as the Mary Sue type in the first episode--spunky, very, very smart, very pretty, very young, very competent etc. Fortunately, she had the luxury of time to grow into the show and the role. She wasn't just shoved in among existing characters whom had evolved over time.

I firmly believe that Mitchell as a major, either transferred from another team or recruited for the SGC and given the chance to be on SG-1 would have worked out much better than Lt Colonel Mitchell did.

Even if you had SG1 disbanded, doing their own thing, and brought in LTC Mitchell, you didn't have to make him some big time hero. that's just trying too hard.

Bringing new characters onboard would have been doable, had it been done differently.

One thing I think TPTB should have remembered is that while it was important to show something of the new characters and to allow the audience to get to know them and care about them (as opposed to shoving sob stories about the new character down their throats: seeing his dad lose his leg, accidentally killing a bunch of innocent civilians and causing the death of a close friend through recklessness, all within three episodes, was far too much as far as Mitchell was concerned. One would have been enough) it was just as important, perhaps even more so, to ensure that the original characters were not neglected.

I think that's one of the reasons Vala "works" better than Mitchell. Even though they tolerate her, especially in season 9, no one really likes her. And there's nothing about her in season 9 that's designed to make us really sympathize with her. She's a liar, she's manipulative, she's imperfect. Yet, there are moments where you get a glimpse under all that b.s. she throws out. It's a bit more subtle.

That being said, I feel the character's a little more forced in season 10 when she really doesn't need to be. She's not really a character people feel lukewarm about --they either think she's great or they hate her. You can't ignore her, whether you want to or not. I think the season 10 characterization is actually not as good as season 9, which is weird. They've sort of toned her down yet made her dumb at the same time; Vala's a lot of things but stupid isn't one of them. Did they do that so the audience would feel sorry for her? They didn't need to--those who love her, love her, those who don't aren't likely to change their minds.

and who says you have to love every character on a show? I hate Starbuck but I still like "Battlestar Galactica".

Trying to pass “Stargate Command” off as “Stargate: SG-1” was a foolish move, in my opinion. Regardless of the reasons for continuing as SG-1, if TPTB were going to be calling the show “Stargate: SG-1”, they should have continued to make “Stargate: SG-1”.

I agree. I mean, I'm a new viewer. I started watching for Browder and Black, more for Black than Browder, if truth be told. I suspect the longtime viewers, knowing that it was now SGC vs SG1 may have given it a look. I can't say if they would have liked it or not but at least they would have known they weren't going to be getting the same thing they had the prior 8 seasons; thus, much less bitterness.

Using the existing fanbases for both the show and the new actors as an excuse to take short cuts was bound to end badly. Even the most devoted fan of a show can stop watching if what they loved about it is gone, just as somebody who is a huge fan of an actor may find that they simply cannot enjoy his/her character if the writing of said character is poor.

Mitchell and Vala should have been written as they would have been if completely unknown actors were playing them. Actors with an existing fanbase would have been an advantage, but it wouldn’t have been a crutch.

A little less forced back story for Mitchell and a little more consistency for Mitchell in season 9 and Vala in season 10 would have helped a lot.

I still wouldn't blame them for the demise of the show; certainly that fault falls solely on the people who create the show. Actors just don't have that much clout.

[Skydiver]

So I just read about the SG-1 pewter figures. All the members are sold indvidually except Teal'c. To get a Teal'c you have to buy a pack that includes Mitchell.

Teal'c, in an olive uniform, is available as an exclusive when purchased in a four-pack that includes the olive-garbed Mitchell, Carter, and Jackson. Each figurine, except for Teal'c, is also sold individually.

So If I want to buy the "classic" team, I am forced to buy a Mitchell too.

looks like a metaphore for s9 and 10

if we want a team....we gotta take the unwanted and extra baggage along with it

[ReganX]

I still wouldn't blame them for the demise of the show; certainly that fault falls solely on the people who create the show. Actors just don't have that much clout.

Of course not. They can only work with what they're given. I wouldn't place all of the blame on the writers either - it's up to the show runner to ensure that all episodes are up to scratch, and that all of the writers have a grasp of the characterizations.