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**Gregorius** · 30 July 2006, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by AGateFan

To bring the NEW people in and make them the near sole focus of the show and give them fake, unwarrented respect is what destroys the character.

Not only that, it also shows how TPTB of a show are arrogant enough to think their fanbase won't mind them doing so and thus insulting the intelligence of the fanbase. Eventually such a character is not only destroyed and unliked, but it will also take the show with it in its fall, or at least make the show decline in the ratings.

**kazzyk** · 30 July 2006, 08:33 AM

wow--I must be missing something because I did not like TPP at all. Watched it on tivo last night after reading what you guys had to say.

Spoiler:

I just can not believe this is from the same writers who gave us 8 yrs--S9-S10 reminds me more of ghost writers from the local middle school language arts class.

( a GateFan) you didnt miss anything with SGA.

**Skydiver** · 30 July 2006, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Hatusu

The truth is that this has to be just as frustrating for Ben Browder. As an actor, he needs those tensions, those interactions, too.

yes, he does. I would think as an actor, he'd enjoy having more to do than running to the rescue and being everyone's darling.

There is one actor who, when asked about an upcoming rather drastic character change said that he was looking forward to it because it was something different and new and a change. (and i can't go into details i'm afraid, you'll just have to take my word for it...it's not a stargate actor)

i would think that playing the cameron shallowness would get rather boring

**ses110** · 30 July 2006, 08:49 AM

Same here.I though once again it was nothing special.IMO it was another

Spoiler:

**ses110** · 30 July 2006, 08:50 AM

I have a hard time believing BB and CB like and are having fun playing their characters.

**smurf** · 30 July 2006, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by ses110

Same here.I though once again it was nothing special.IMO it was another

Spoiler:

Surely every new episode is the best episode EVER!?

Or haven't you been drinking from the same water TPTB <snip> have?

It's amazing that with these positive reviews (on this thread, rather than generally) that I can't get up any enthusiasm to seek the episode out. I still did with S9.
I guess, for me, Stargate as a live show is RIP.

And don't call me Shirley.

**Gregorius** · 30 July 2006, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by ses110

Same here.I though once again it was nothing special.IMO it was another

Spoiler:

I have to disagree the last great episodes were "Reckoning 1&2 + threads"

Anyway this episode was far above the average episode we've seen in the last 2 years, it's why people are saying it's a great episode. It's like after eating Brussel Sprouts for 2 years you finally get a slice of pizza for a change.

**AGateFan** · 30 July 2006, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by smurf

Surely every new episode is the best episode EVER!?

Or haven't you been drinking from the same water TPTB (and some others) have?

It's amazing that with these positive reviews (on this thread, rather than generally) that I can't get up any enthusiasm to seek the episode out. I still did with S9.
I guess, for me, Stargate as a live show is RIP.

And don't call me Shirley.

Yeah, it is really hard to tell if the ep was actually THAT GOOD or if peoples expectations are just now THAT LOW that anything that is even decent qualifies for OMFG that was AWESOME!!!111!!!.

Maybe it was. Maybe it wasnt awesome but actually great. Maybe it wasnt awesome or great but still good. Maybe it wasnt awesome, great, or good but just decent little ep. Maybe it was bad but compared to S9 was good. I dunno, sometimes I feel like I should give it a try again but then I figure I would just be starting all over again with my degreess of loss deniel\Anger\sadness. I am pretty much at acceptance at this point, do I really want to start that all over again? Best to stay away. I think it will be cancelled soon. If not then I think TPTB will do away with the characters I love and focus even more on those I hate. Either way not good. If in the future it turns out TPTB did turn it around and put the focus back on the Big 3 and made it stargate again, then I guess I will get the DVDs or maybe even start watching again... if I was sure that they fixed it. I just can't do it until then. I got football season coming up and I am sure the Bengals will be a big enough letdown.... I can only deal with one TV crisis at a time

.

**smurf** · 30 July 2006, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by AGateFan

Yeah, it is really hard to tell if the ep was actually THAT GOOD or if peoples expectations are just now THAT LOW that anything that is even decent qualifies for OMFG that was AWESOME!!!111!!!.

Maybe it was. Maybe it wasnt awesome but actually great. Maybe it wasnt awesome or great but still good. Maybe it wasnt awesome, great, or good but just decent little ep. Maybe it was bad but compared to S9 was good. I dunno, sometimes I feel like I should give it a try again but then I figure I would just be starting all over again with my degreess of loss deniel\Anger\sadness. I am pretty much at acceptance at this point, do I really want to start that all over again? Best to stay away. I think it will be cancelled soon. If not then I think TPTB will do away with the characters I love and focus even more on those I hate. Either way not good. If in the future it turns out TPTB did turn it around and put the focus back on the Big 3 and made it stargate again, then I guess I will get the DVDs or maybe even start watching again... if I was sure that they fixed it. I just can't do it until then. I got football season coming up and I am sure the Bengals will be a big enough letdown.... I can only deal with one TV crisis at a time

.

That is the problem. Even though there have been positive reviews, I just assume that the low expectation thing has taken it's toll.
Take for example Ripple Effect which people rated because it was a good team episode. I thought was meh & a historically obtuse, missed opportunity. Seems some people's best ever is the same as my whatever.
Maybe I'll come back to it at some point if it gets good - although how I'm going to work out what is actually good when everything is GREAT!!!!! I don't know.

Gut instinct says I won't be back into the show full time. I'm still sticking around for a bit because it was great fun, but if, in the highly unlikely probability, it gets a S11 I'll probably be gone. It's not Stargate SG-1 and each episode is an episode further away from it IMO.

**Skydiver** · 30 July 2006, 10:02 AM

i do think that TPP...ok, so we've been getting nothing but Palmer 'chocolate' and Hershey bars for the past 2 years...and we finally got a little piece of a russell stover's...nothing as great and grand as the galaxy bars we used to get in the past, but definitely better than the chocolate flavored substance we've been used to

In other words, TPP didn't suck as much as most of season 9 and 10 has thus far, even though i don't think the show is able to rise back to the quality is used to consistantly crank out a few years ago

**Lord Shiva** · 30 July 2006, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by AGateFan

Yeah, it is really hard to tell if the ep was actually THAT GOOD or if peoples expectations are just now THAT LOW that anything that is even decent qualifies for OMFG that was AWESOME!!!111!!!.

Maybe it was. Maybe it wasnt awesome but actually great. Maybe it wasnt awesome or great but still good. Maybe it wasnt awesome, great, or good but just decent little ep. Maybe it was bad but compared to S9 was good. I dunno, sometimes I feel like I should give it a try again but then I figure I would just be starting all over again with my degreess of loss deniel\Anger\sadness. I am pretty much at acceptance at this point, do I really want to start that all over again? Best to stay away. I think it will be cancelled soon. If not then I think TPTB will do away with the characters I love and focus even more on those I hate. Either way not good. If in the future it turns out TPTB did turn it around and put the focus back on the Big 3 and made it stargate again, then I guess I will get the DVDs or maybe even start watching again... if I was sure that they fixed it. I just can't do it until then. I got football season coming up and I am sure the Bengals will be a big enough letdown.... I can only deal with one TV crisis at a time

.

Trust me, just stay away and re-watch your old Stargate DVD's.

Kidding

**Ace** · 30 July 2006, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by AGateFan

See thats how a NEW character should be brought in. Nice and slow. The ORIGINAL characters are who people want to see. After a year as a new character people may get to like that character and then he can get more screen time. To bring the NEW people in and make them the near sole focus of the show and give them fake, unwarrented respect is what destroys the character.

I'm sorry but that is just about the funniest thing I've seen in a long time!! LOL No disrespect intended...

I'm not sure if you were around, fandom wise, for the end of Season 5 and the beginning of Season 6 with the introduction of Jonas. Several people mentioned earlier that they were not... I'm not sure if you were one of them.

The BIGGEST thing about Jonas that practically divided a once united fan base was the way that TPTB brought Jonas into the show. For many fans that hated Joans he was was a traitor, a coward who was replacing the "greatest" character on the show. We had never heard of him... he was brand new, only been on Earth for a month really 2 episodes before he was placed on the team after Daniel's "death"

They hated that he was suddenly on the team because of his previous actions. They thought that it was in no way slow... He was in essence replacing a character instead of a position needed on the team.

It was because of this reaction to how a new character was brought in that TPTB decided to change it when they brought in Mitchell that they would incorporate him into the "mythos" and have all SG-1 already know him and have 'worked' with him.

In my opinion a much better way to introduce a character... but I know others on this thread very much disagree with me. That's alright...

But I just thought it was ironic that nearly 4 years later after the whole Jonas incident that somebody would make a comment that how they brought Jonas into the show is the WAY it should be done.

It set off my funny bone... I apologize! hehe

Ace

**Skydiver** · 30 July 2006, 10:39 AM

jonas definitely was a bone of contention.

I personally felt that he earned his way onto the team. Yes, it was portrayed that it was 'jonas or a russian' but still, jack chose him, sam and teal'c wanted him and jonas did have to prove to jack that he could stay.

on the other hand with cam, we didn't really get someone JOINING the team as we did him manhandling the team back into existence. I feel like, with cam, we got the hard sell...aint' he great, ain't he grand? see, sam loves him, teal'c is ok with him, landry calls him a hero, and he's got a shiny medal and everything.

I feel like we got a chance to accept jonas where with cam, we got the hard sell. We got the push and shove and had cameron crammed in our face.

the thing is, while i certainly was and am willing to accept that we need a new character to fill jack's role, i think that the hard sell back fired. the more they push him upon us teh more i push back and get all skeptical.

cause i always remember 'if it seems to be too good to be true, it probably is' and, with all the hard sell, cameon is too good to be true

**Zoser** · 30 July 2006, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan

I wasn't around fandom at the time but my guess was that it was primarily a specific sector of fans who had an issue with Jonas. My sense now is that people across the board have issues with Mitchell.

And it's funny because Jack's anger toward Jonas is part of what made me like him. He had to prove himself. He was most certainly the outsider there, wasn't he? Not exactly welcomed with open arms. It made his being there more interesting I think. Having him clash with Jack because of the Daniel thing. I like that Sam made a point of telling him she was only helping him with things because she was ordered to do so. She was probably irked at him too for what happened...but was more willing and open to accept him because of choices that he made to help them out. But it was a process.

Vala? Well Vala is absolutely THE outsider. Everyone is waiting for her to screw up and to me that's fun. Had that scene been left in for Morpheus, we'd see that Carter has already offered her support and will be there for her. It's a nice contrast to Daniel constantly acosting her verbally or Mitchell...uh...doing or feeling however the writers want him to do/feel that week.

I would have loved for Carter to have decked him for that Mary Poppins crack. Or Teal'c to flatten him for almost getting them all killed. But nooooooooooo. They laugh it off. He's the "intergalactic screw up," Coop intoned with glee. "Something special" that they all just LURVE to death.

Me? I so badly want for Mitchell to REALLY screw up and be called on it. Or even better, call himself on it...but not be reassured by the others that he did great and what would they do without him there, etc.. I want one of them to be really angry at him for something and for them to eventually work it out. Then and ONLY then will I start to feel like he's "real" and a part of the team. When I see how they handle an actual, honest to goodness internal conflict and how they all come out of it afterwards: an actual, real team not a group of folks with conveniently matching patches.

Maybe a royal screw up that's fatal to Cam and Vala - it would be sooo satisfying.

**Zoser** · 30 July 2006, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Gregorius

I have to disagree the last great episodes were "Reckoning 1&2 + threads"

Anyway this episode was far above the average episode we've seen in the last 2 years, it's why people are saying it's a great episode. It's like after eating Brussel Sprouts for 2 years you finally get a slice of pizza for a change.

Hey, I like Brussel Sprouts! How about parsnips?

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