S10: Critique & Contemplation

[suse]

So while they aren't brave enough to risk the negative reaction if they fired AT, if she decided to leave, none of them would be falling over themselves trying to talk her out of it?

The thing is most fans are smarter(dumber?) than that.

There was a huge writing campaign when MS left by choice. So they got rid of a perfectly good character to bring him back.

RDA left by choice. While (as far as I know) there has been no writing campaign per se there have been grumblings from the B@B that they are hearing "We want Jack".

I treally think after seeing how Sam has been/will be treated in S9/S10 no online Sam fan will take AT leaving lying down. While in this scenario she also leaves by choice it's pretty obvious why she's leaving. At least her reason would be valid. Unlike some others I could mention. Frankly at this point I think she could do much better. She'd miss her decade-long family like mad though.

Assuming - dangerous i know - that is what they are hoping for in the increasingly unlikely event of a S11 they'll find out exactly how poplular AT/Sam is. I bet we could make the Daniel fans look like amateurs in organization .If they have any viewers left anyway.

ETA: I'd never want Amanda to stay if she was ready to go. All I meant was I bet AT fans could give TPTB an earful. Not try to get her back if she's ready to move on.

Frankly even if they hadn't gone in the dierection they did I'm not sure how much more life SG-1 had in it anyway.

Suse

[Suzotchka]

me neither. Sam is no fun. she's boring. she's no vamp, no naughty girl she's, well she's not fun

and i think they will continue to treat the character like crud and sideline her adn i still personally think that there's someone - even as they're forced to acknowledge how very popular sam and AT are - that would be much happier if AT just took the hint and left.

cause that's how they're treating her. Like someone they can't fire since they'd never survive the backlash yet someone they'd be quite happy if she turned in her notice then they wouldn't have to worry about that non-fun character anymore

At least, going by all we've heard, if this attitude exists at bridge, tehy're good about keeping it under wraps because all the actors get along. And honestly, you know, if they're gonna pay her more to do less, i say you go girl.

Well said!

All I can say is that if AT isn't on the show anymore, I will not be watching the show anymore.

Remeber when

Spoiler:

they were thinking of sending Sam to Atlantis for a few episodes? I'm almost wishing they would. She'd have more to do there

[suse]

I knew I wanted to bring up something else :jump-starts brain:

Joe M stated in that interview that one of the reasons the ratings were so low was because traditionally that week is the least viewed week of TV for the year. Umm exactly how long has SG-1 been premeiring at approximately the same time? With quite large (for SFC) ratings?

Now it's Pirates fault because movies are up 4% over last year.

Dream on, bucky.

Suse
amused

[Skydiver]

So while they aren't brave enough to risk the negative reaction if they fired AT, if she decided to leave, none of them would be falling over themselves trying to talk her out of it?

i honestly don't know. but it does seem rather ironic that the actress they fall all over themselves praising and, even though the word isn't quite right, using - as in 'always willing to do this, always willing to do that, doesn't complain, etc' is the one they can't/won't give a storyline to and persist in treating like the red headed ******* step child

I think IF, IF, IF, big huge IF she ever decides to leave, she will have to very publically state that it was all her idea or tptb will have to hide from the backlash

I will say one thing though, as long as it's her honest and real choice, i have no doubt that most sam fans will respect the actress and her choice and not demand that she alter her life to suit us.

she chooses to leave, i'll support her leaving, i won't waste my time wailing and knashing my teeth trying to force the actor to get back where i want her. I have more respect for her than that.

And if it happens to be someone else's choice...well honestly as shoddily as they've treated her - nearly punishing her for DARING to have a child - dude, she would be better off with a ptb that will treat her with the respect she deserves instead of using and ignoring

[Skydiver]

I knew I wanted to bring up something else :jump-starts brain:

Joe M stated in that interview that one of the reasons the ratings were so low was because traditionally that week is the least viewed week of TV for the year. Umm exactly how long has SG-1 been premeiring at approximately the same time? With quite large (for SFC) ratings?

Now it's Pirates fault because movies are up 4% over last year.

Dream on, bucky.

Suse
amused

it's still those danged magnets

actually it's getting quite humorous to see how many more excuses they can keep coming up with. I'm waiting for Sparky the Killer Chihauhaha to be blamed somehow

[ReganX]

I think IF, IF, IF, big huge IF she ever decides to leave, she will have to very publically state that it was all her idea or tptb will have to hide from the backlash

I'd say that would be likely.

I will say one thing though, as long as it's her honest and real choice, i have no doubt that most sam fans will respect the actress and her choice and not demand that she alter her life to suit us.

she chooses to leave, i'll support her leaving, i won't waste my time wailing and knashing my teeth trying to force the actor to get back where i want her. I have more respect for her than that.

I'd miss having Sam as a part of the show, but I would never want Amanda to keep working on Stargate if she didn't want to.

[Albion]

so we have the watering down of the characters, emphasis on sfx and plot - which skiffy can meddle with - and an all around blander and more boring show.

shows like law and order, which are very story driven adn not necessarily charcter driven, can survive cast changes quite well. but, to do this, the writing has to be dang good. We don't have good writing now. We have an ever decreasing 'inner circle' cranking out template stories with the belief that they are the greatest writers in the world and that anyone that can't see it is stupid. Someone used Hubris, and it's a good term. the writers, imho, have an overdeveloped opinion of thier own abilities.

Still can't green you, Skydiver, but, dang, you've been writing some darn good posts and making excellent points lately, girl.

Couldn't agree more with this one.

Sadly, what's always attracted me to a show is character-driven stories, character relationship and humour. Show me a group of people who care about each other and I'm there. Which is why, increasingly, there's so much less to interest me in the show now. Space battles and explosions, expensive sets and guest stars are all very well - and I have to say that there were some impressive SFX in Camelot - but although I can vaguely admire the work that went into those, they don't thrill me or have me on the edge of my seat or my heart beating a rapid tattoo or melting in a heap of warm and fuzzy feelings.

RDA left by choice. While (as far as I know) there has been no writing campaign per se there have been grumblings from the B@B that they are hearing "We want Jack"

I think the difference there was because although MS left the show, he didn't leave acting. He was off working on other things and so able to be persuade to return if the fans nagged enough/showed enough interest in getting him back.

RDA, OTOH, made it clear that he was retiring not just from the show, but from acting completely and the reasons he gave for that - a long term committment to his daughter and being there for her growing up - wasn't something that was going to change in for many years.

So I think most RDA/Jack fans, though missing him desperately, respected that choice and didn't campaign for his return when they knew the reasons why RDA had left were so important and personal to him and that there was little chance of a reversal in his decision.

And the BAB can grumble all they like, but if they couldn't foresee that a gaping hole would be left when a character they had chosen to build the show around (even though they didn't shove him front and centre like Mitchell, Jack was still the 'star', the leading man, the one who fronted all the promotional material, etc, though with Jack that was never a problem as it has been with Mitchell. They still managed to share the wealth) left and that they'd need to be smart about filling that gap, then they can only blame themselves. It wasn't exactly rocket science, that one.

They could have gotten past it, but they chose to try and solve the problem by filling the show with poorly written characters. Not just Mitchell and Vala, but the Ori, too. And as if that wasn't bad enough, they then went on to make Mitchell even more a focus for the entire show than Jack had ever been, instead of concentrating on team and sharing the wealth. Not just sharing the focus with Teal'c, Daniel and Sam, but with the host of well-loved peripheral guest characters we'd had throughout the years, who they mostly seemed to forget were there in S9.

I guess that's what bugs me so much about the changes. With just a little care, a little thought, a little more attention in the writing, many of the problems I have with the show since S8 could have been avoided and the show could have gone from strength to strength, instead of dying on its mikta. I can't help feeling that it was all so unnecessary and that in better hands it wouldn't have happened.

Albion

[Hatusu]

Sorry, I meant changed their minds on sending her to Atlantis. I have no doubt that they're still going to continue to sideline her on SG1. In fact, hasn't someone posted previously to say that AT said there were no great moments for Sam this season, no stories focused on her? We'll have to see, but sadly I ain't hopeful.

Albion

Spoiler:

I know that there is going to be a scene between Carter and McKay. Those are always great.

[Hatusu]

i THINK they did it at the behest of scifi. who, in an effort to keep power over the show, didn't want a show were any character (and therefore actor) had power over the show. I don't think they liked the fact that 'if rda didn't sign there was no season' and other such bits of control that the actors have

so we have the watering down of the characters, emphasis on sfx and plot - which skiffy can meddle with - and an all around blander and more boring show.

shows like law and order, which are very story driven adn not necessarily charcter driven, can survive cast changes quite well. but, to do this, the writing has to be dang good. We don't have good writing now. We have an ever decreasing 'inner circle' cranking out template stories with the belief that they are the greatest writers in the world and that anyone that can't see it is stupid. Someone used Hubris, and it's a good term. the writers, imho, have an overdeveloped opinion of thier own abilities....

but now that there are little to no character moments, there's nothing to compensate for mediocre writing. and the ratings are starting to show it. no matter how much they spin it, no matter how many excuses they drag out, there is still the fact that the show is dying a slow and painful death and has been murdered by meddling...complicated by a case of the Ego

Could it be because they all became producers, too?

[suse]

i honestly don't know. but it does seem rather ironic that the actress they fall all over themselves praising and, even though the word isn't quite right, using - as in 'always willing to do this, always willing to do that, doesn't complain, etc' is the one they can't/won't give a storyline to and persist in treating like the red headed ******* step child

I think IF, IF, IF, big huge IF she ever decides to leave, she will have to very publically state that it was all her idea or tptb will have to hide from the backlash

I will say one thing though, as long as it's her honest and real choice, i have no doubt that most sam fans will respect the actress and her choice and not demand that she alter her life to suit us.

she chooses to leave, i'll support her leaving , i won't waste my time wailing and knashing my teeth trying to force the actor to get back where i want her. I have more respect for her than that.

And if it happens to be someone else's choice...well honestly as shoddily as they've treated her - nearly punishing her for DARING to have a child - dude, she would be better off with a ptb that will treat her with the respect she deserves instead of using and ignoring

Oh, I'd completely support her leaving as long as it's her decision. <g> But Skiffy/MGM/B@B would get an earful about the shoddy treatment. (So would the viewers they now want me to pull in for them.) I'd never want to to stay when she was ready to go.

Suse

[Hatusu]

me neither. Sam is no fun. she's boring. she's no vamp, no naughty girl she's, well she's not fun

and i think they will continue to treat the character like crud and sideline her adn i still personally think that there's someone - even as they're forced to acknowledge how very popular sam and AT are - that would be much happier if AT just took the hint and left.

cause that's how they're treating her. Like someone they can't fire since they'd never survive the backlash yet someone they'd be quite happy if she turned in her notice then they wouldn't have to worry about that non-fun character anymore

I really don't think the Executive Producers and the Directors feel that way about Amanda Tapping. I think it's a writer's problem. The writers, as they are now, are have difficulty writing for a strong accomplished woman.

Although some of the editing choices made for the Vala and Carter characters (revealed by AT & CB) make me wonder.

[suse]

Could it be because they all became producers, too?

Yep. Showrunners/writers/directors/producers all. Of not one 20 ep show but 2. No one has time to beta the scripts anymore. Or spend more time "crafting" them . They all wear too many hats.

I have no doubt they are working hard. I never ever said they were lazy. But they are streched! too! bloody! thin!

[suse]

I really don't think the Executive Producers and the Directors feel that way about Amanda Tapping. I think it's a writer's problem. The writers, as they are now, are have difficulty writing for a strong accomplished woman.

Although some of the editing choices made for the Vala and Carter characters (revealed by AT & CB) make me wonder.

I'd agree if they weren't exactly the same people. <sigh> (Not at you, the situation.)

Suse

[suse]

I'll have to find the interview but one of them (BW or RCC) essentially said Sam was hard to write for and Vala was like letting your "Id" run free.

I'll look tonight. Time for work.

Suse

[Hatusu]

Yep. Showrunners/writers/directors/producers all. Of not one 20 ep show but 2. No one has time to beta the scripts anymore. Or spend more time "crafting" them . They all wear too many hats.

I have no doubt they are working hard. I never ever said they were lazy. But they are streched! too! bloody! thin!

I agree, although writing is not just about working hard or even creativity. It's also about attitudes and beliefs.

I think we've pinpointed 3 main problems
1) The producers, directors and writers are too rushed and no one has time to proof and refine the scripts. I'd also add that no one is independent enough to offer other viewpoints either.

2) There's a boy's club thing going on here, and it's really starting to show in the writing.

3) They don't hire enough independent writers anymore. By avoiding this, they miss fresh ideas and the female viewpoint.