S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Uber]

MGM owns them. And DD has a production deal with MGM. It's his toy if MGM chooses to let him play with with it.

You've got a point but I can't imagine a scenario where the original PTB wouldn't have ensured that they have some sort of creative stranglehold on the concept...otherwise they'd leave themselves open for lawsuits.

Which, by the way, I SOOOO see coming if this continues too much further.

[kazzyk]

If I watch and dislike it does that mean I'm allowed to criticise it, or is that still "fake" fan status. True for watching, fake for criticising, does that make me normal?


I would be surprised if a point was worth less, unless SciFi is no longer available as part of basic cable. And I'm sure we would have heard that as an excuse by now.

Going by Eureka; 4million/3.2= 1,250,000 per point. So 1.7million is 1.36. Maybe they've been allowed to round up. That's one way of gaining viewers.


I was slightly wrong earlier. The second showing is holding steady, but that means they've still lost viewership. (got misled by Ethon which got 1.5 and a big bounce of 1.2 for the second showing)

The 1.36 is a more accurate reading of the live numbers. If you read that front page article--take note of the * next to SG and scroll to the note on the bottom where it says the 1.4 is live + same day to allow for DVRs.

You know--the franchise was strong. So many things they could have gone on to and TPTB have many plans beyond the show itsself.
However--tanking the show hurts the franchise as a whole. I expect the only thing that will go up is DVD sales of S1-S8. So fans can get their SG fix.

It is sad because all they had to do was bring in Mitchell in away that made sense with Carter as the leader. Plus create and enemy that doesnt remind everyone what is on the daily news.

[Albion]

hey, tptb have consistently told me that i'm too stupid to realize the quality show they're making. i've been dismissed and told that i have issues and i've basically been told to bugger off and go away since i'm not squeeing in fangirlish joy at their very presence

don't go begging me and caring about me now when y ou've spent several years blowing me off and telling me to go away

System won't let me green you, Skydiver, so just imagine I did. <g> And...right on!

I'm curious about the other part of that article. That Morpheus apparently showed improvement in the 'key female demi'. I didn't realise there was one! Surely the only important demi to the BAB these days are teen males? If they're trying to attract female viewers, I've got a hint for them - stop shafting your main female character! It's hardly going to attract us if you keep telling us you have no clue what to do with her now that you have the sex kitten in tight leather pants and her boobs out most weeks, now is it? Then there's the purile gutter dialogue and that teensy little irksome leadership thing....

Actually, having said that...I was so bored last night I watched F&B and you know what...I actually enjoyed it. Mitchell irked me now and then, but not half as much as in S9. If they continue to play up the changes they've made to both Vala and Mitchell's characters and phase out the annoying bits, they might go a long way to getting this viewer back. Though, of course, I'm in the same category as Skydiver - don't count.

Still got that pesky transporter problem, though, I see. You know, even on Star Trek they contrived to have the transporters break down a lot, so that our heroes were in genuine peril now and then. Those transporters on our ships are just too darn efficient. Although, I guess they did do some actual writing on rescuing Sam when last season they'd probably have just written, "Emerson pushes a button and Sam is magically transported onto the ship.' So, guess I should give them credit for that.

All in all, I'm genuinely saddened that the show is dying right before my eyes. But at the same time I can't help but feel that at least now the BAB and all those 'true fans' who've been so disrespectful and dismissive of my concerns (the 'you're only bitter because RDA left and just can't accept change, get over it' brigade) can't continue to pretend that everything in the garden is just rosy and that they haven't lost a lot of their core fan base. On the whole though, I'd much rather SG1 had gone into S9 and beyond strong and healthy and the show that I adore.


Albion

[Skydiver]

i think touting the 'key female demo' is a way to grasp onto ANYTHING positive out of the tankage that was the premiere ratings.

and you're right. if they want the female demos, well you don't go treating your female lead like so much garbage while promoting the 'identify with me young man' hewo and 'let me titilate you' vamp...moves that are little more than to pander to the oh so sought after fickle young male.

Females are - for the most part - a brainy bunch. we're not easily bought off wtih flashy sfx. we like shows that are intelligent and funny and, well good. We don't tend to have much tolerance for the potty humor and plot holes the size of texas. we're smarter than that. we can spot them miles away.

Sure, say that you're happy that the females are there, then again,with ratings like this i would imagine that you're happy that ANYONE is watching

[Strix varia]

MGM owns them. And DD has a production deal with MGM. It's his toy if MGM chooses to let him play with with it.

Yeah, I think the timing is right for DD. I don't think he's entirely blowing smoke, but it remains to be seen whether or not MGM will give him the green light. I do wonder how much of it may depend on how the series (SG-1 and Atlantis) do in ratings this season.

[minigeek]

Yeah, I think the timing is right for DD. I don't think he's entirely blowing smoke, but it remains to be seen whether or not MGM will give him the green light. I do wonder how much of it may depend on how the series (SG-1 and Atlantis) do in ratings this season.

It's just that to produce a movie with the "old" characters and cast right now would be such a waste if you ask me. Not unlike producing a "Buffy" film and using the original cast of the movie that spawned that series. A terrible decision, if you ask me. MGM has to see that, too. I can see DD wanting to capitalize on the franchise, but I can't see the commodity he wants to run with being a lucrative draw with its current ideaology and casting. Movies are a great idea, but at the very least, lets try and merge the story arcs (along with the characters). Stargate may not be the most popular TV series in the world, but everyone does know about it (everyone who would go to a theatre to see a movie called "Stargate", at least). And that being the case, the fact that the original movie characters (Daniel and Jack) are completely different entities from the ones currently inhabiting their incarnations for television just makes the whole notion a WEIRD one, at best. If I were MGM, I'd think long and hard before green lighting a project like that. If he absolutely has to be "the guy" who produces further Stargate movies, then DD would do better to write a spin-off movie in the same universe with different characters in order to continue the trilogy, if you ask me.

[Strix varia]

It's just that to produce a movie with the "old" characters and cast right now would be such a waste if you ask me. Not unlike producing a "Buffy" film and using the original cast of the movie that spawned that series. A terrible decision, if you ask me. MGM has to see that, too. I can see DD wanting to capitalize on the franchise, but I can't see the commodity he wants to run with being a lucrative draw with its current ideaology and casting. Movies are a great idea, but at the very least, lets try and merge the story arcs (along with the characters). Stargate may not be the most popular TV series in the world, but everyone does know about it (everyone who would go to a theatre to see a movie called "Stargate", at least). And that being the case, the fact that the original movie characters (Daniel and Jack) are completely different entities from the ones currently inhabiting their incarnations for television just makes the whole notion a WEIRD one, at best. If I were MGM, I'd think long and hard before green lighting a project like that. If he absolutely has to be "the guy" who produces further Stargate movies, then DD would do better to write a spin-off movie in the same universe with different characters in order to continue the trilogy, if you ask me.

I agree that it's very weird. And it's not something that I'd really want to see, I think. Honestly, MS and RDA took over the roles in my mind, and I'm not sure I could wrap my brain around seeing KR and JS again. Too much history to just erase, even with a reset button.

[Zoser]

System won't let me green you, Skydiver, so just imagine I did. <g> And...right on!

I'm curious about the other part of that article. That Morpheus apparently showed improvement in the 'key female demi'. I didn't realise there was one! Surely the only important demi to the BAB these days are teen males? If they're trying to attract female viewers, I've got a hint for them - stop shafting your main female character! It's hardly going to attract us if you keep telling us you have no clue what to do with her now that you have the sex kitten in tight leather pants and her boobs out most weeks, now is it? Then there's the purile gutter dialogue and that teensy little irksome leadership thing....

Actually, having said that...I was so bored last night I watched F&B and you know what...I actually enjoyed it. Mitchell irked me now and then, but not half as much as in S9. If they continue to play up the changes they've made to both Vala and Mitchell's characters and phase out the annoying bits, they might go a long way to getting this viewer back. Though, of course, I'm in the same category as Skydiver - don't count.

Still got that pesky transporter problem, though, I see. You know, even on Star Trek they contrived to have the transporters break down a lot, so that our heroes were in genuine peril now and then. Those transporters on our ships are just too darn efficient. Although, I guess they did do some actual writing on rescuing Sam when last season they'd probably have just written, "Emerson pushes a button and Sam is magically transported onto the ship.' So, guess I should give them credit for that.

All in all, I'm genuinely saddened that the show is dying right before my eyes. But at the same time I can't help but feel that at least now the BAB and all those 'true fans' who've been so disrespectful and dismissive of my concerns (the 'you're only bitter because RDA left and just can't accept change, get over it' brigade) can't continue to pretend that everything in the garden is just rosy and that they haven't lost a lot of their core fan base. On the whole though, I'd much rather SG1 had gone into S9 and beyond strong and healthy and the show that I adore.


Albion

You expressed my thoughts as well.
I, too, am of the demographic that truly does not count - over 50 and female.
(Of course I can't understand this. I have the house paid off, the kids are established with homes of their own and I now have disposable income - you think advertisers would love me.)
And as for not being able to accept change - I can and I have. Now can TPTB accept change when I change the channel?

[ToasterOnFire]

I too am amused by the suits touting how the female demographic picked up for Morpheus. Since when did they give a damn about that group? If they really wanted those viewers, they would have kept Sam as the leader of SG1, emphasized Weir and Teyla more instead of having them be largely scenery chewers for the Shep and McKay Show, and had women guest stars on Atlantis that were more than just tail for Shep and/or McKay to chase.

And yes, I may be a teensy, weensy bitter.

[Hatusu]

I too am amused by the suits touting how the female demographic picked up for Morpheus. Since when did they give a damn about that group? If they really wanted those viewers, they would have kept Sam as the leader of SG1, emphasized Weir and Teyla more instead of having them be largely scenery chewers for the Shep and McKay Show, and had women guest stars on Atlantis that were more than just tail for Shep and/or McKay to chase.

And yes, I may be a teensy, weensy bitter.

...and hired woman writers. Do you know how long it's been?

It had to be said. Season 9 was primarily written for the male audience and lost me. Actually, the first half of the season chased me away.

Spoiler:

I was really looking forward to "Morpheus" because I thought it would be a character/emotion driven show, but it didn't really pay off on that promise. I'm not saying it was bad, but it's something to keep in mind.

I also think that Lt. Colonel Carter is being WAY too polite on these issues. I want the team dynamic, but the way it is now, they are barely interacting. Have it out! Challenge each other. Save each other's lives. Let's have some tension and drama.

[Hatusu]

I checked. Not 1 female writer or director in the entire season. I guess we should feel lucky they hire female actors. I mean they could do it like Elisabethan England and have a man play Carter and Vala.

[Skydiver]

they'd only do that if they could realistically give the man cleavage

[Skydiver]

it does still strike me really funny that, after almsot two years of being written off and told off and ignored that, when the women are all they have left, all of a sudden we're important.

course, knowing these boys they'll find some other way to twist it soon enough

by and large, adult females are more sophisticated than young males. Just look at how movies are targeted

plot thin, action heavy, explosions and car chases...that's a guy movie

a slower paced, character driven with a good plot ... that's a chick flick

they used to write the latter, with a smattering of hte former and did ok. then switched to a near steady diet of the former and the show tanked...now do you REALLY see them going back to the boring, dull and dry chick flick????

Not with the attitude i've seen from some of these folks. They'll 'fun' themselves out of a job long before they admit that they messed something up.

I don't have tivo and i'm not a neilson person, so it doesn't matter if i watch or not. and i still will...even as a shake my head each coming week as more and more excuses are made.

they made their bed, they can lie in it. At the end of the day the only effect it'll have on me is the money i'll save on the dvd's and a free hour on friday night.

it's their reputations and it's the jobs of hundreds of folks that their 'fun' is going to cost. and you know....what happens, happens. I don't wish anyone unemployment, but after being dismissed, belittled and insulted for the past coupel of years, excuse me if my empathy is a little low for some of them.

[Hatusu]

I've met some of these people. I like them. That doesn't change the fact that it is WRONG morally and short sighted creatively.

I remember Joe Mallozzi or Martin Gero talking about the female writers issue. They said some female writers had been tried out, but they had no answer for why it didn't work out.

I'd also put in for a female writer who may be able to catch and stop some of these silly continuity errors that have been slipping in over the last few years. Woman are supposed to be detail oriented.

Well, somone should pay attention.

I should add that Amanda Tapping directed an episode and did quite well.

[Albion]

I was really looking forward to "Morpheus" because I thought it would be a character/emotion driven show, but it didn't really pay off on that promise. I'm not saying it was bad, but it's something to keep in mind.

Aw, dang. Don't tell me that. I haven't watched it yet and I was kind of hoping for the same thing.

On the female demi, I can't help but go back to that segment on the (S8?) DVDs where they talked to fans at that con and so many - especially fathers - said that they sat down with their young daughters to watch the show because of its positive take on women, which they felt encouraged their daughters not to accept sexism and to know they could strive to be the best at whatever they wanted to do. A show that, unlike so many others out there, didn't resort to using female characters just as eye candy, but made them real people, with aims and agendas and skills and complex emotions, just like everyone else.

And I still would love to know what those same fathers felt having watched the gutter dialogue, Vala the Vamp and the sidelining of Carter throughout S9. Changed their minds much? Wouldn't be surprised.

The BAB could do far worse than go watch that DVD segment if they want to know what to do to get their ratings up and core fans back. Perhaps it might help them to understand where they went wrong. And help them see how they've removed the values that shone through eight seasons of SG1.

Albion