S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ReganX]

Don't forget the very relevant quote from Hammond in Shades of Grey when he appointed someone else as SG1 leader (as pointed out by another poster earlier and I am sorry I forget who so I cannot give proper credit here.) and the fact that Daniel and Teal'c were against it and thought Carter should be leader and SAID SO - where was that same reaction (or any reaction at all) when a useless noob was appointed and they agreed to come back - what a crock o'crap it is from start to finish there is so much history and canon that contradicts this dreck it's laughable. TPKTS are really hitting the bottom of the barrel - look up every word that means garbage and use it - that's how I feel about this junk right now.

Another excellent point.

Daniel argued that Sam should lead instead of Makepeace, who was two ranks ahead of her and had led a team for nearly three years when Makepeace was present and yet we're expected to believe that he has no problem whatsoever with Sam being demoted in favour of someone of the same rank and no comparable experience?

I do like that neither Daniel nor Teal'c agreed to return to the SGC until Sam was back, but I would have liked it much better if, when they returned, Landry had made them into their own, three person team. I think that they would work much better, not to mention be much safer, if Mitchell wasn't on their team.

[ReganX]

I think that's what I object to most with Mitchell. Nothing about it was natural. Not how he got the position, the leadership, the command, why he was at the SGC...none of it. It stuck out like a sore thumb as a completely manufactured, unnatural, grafted on solution. You know that experiment they did some years back - those pictures of that poor mouse with a human ear grafted on to its back? That's Mitchell. An abomination. <g>

The "getting the band back together storyline" was nothing more than a pitiful attempt to force a terrible, weakly thought-out character into SG-1 and to try to justify the incredibly sexist and completely unnecessary removal of Sam from command in favour of a character who is barely qualified to scrub the toilets at the SGC.

[Amanda Eros]

Apparently the Scifi websight was never updated after they decided to change Mitchell's rank. It still has him listed as a Major under the "About the Show" page.

But changes are coming to SG-1 as it begins its ninth year of fearless service to Earth. New faces are joining the team: Maj. Cameron Mitchell (Ben Browder) will try to fill the very big shoes of former SG-1 leader O'Neill (who is now in charge in Homeworld Security), while Gen. Hank Landry (Beau Bridges) must adapt to the unique challenges of running Stargate Command, a posting unlike any other the military has to offer.

[ReganX]

Apparently the Scifi websight was never updated after they decided to change Mitchell's rank. It still has him listed as a Major under the "About the Show" page.

I notice that they seem to have pushed the fact that Sam was (and should still be) in command of SG-1 out of the way. It seems to me that they're trying to make it look like a seamless transfer of command from Jack to Mitchell as much as possible - can anybody remember a reference to Sam ever having command of SG-1 apart from Mitchell's question in the first episode?

[binkpmmc]

I notice that they seem to have pushed the fact that Sam was (and should still be) in command of SG-1 out of the way. It seems to me that they're trying to make it look like a seamless transfer of command from Jack to Mitchell as much as possible - can anybody remember a reference to Sam ever having command of SG-1 apart from Mitchell's question in the first episode?

No. This is one of the main reasons that the whole thing, IMO, is garbage served on a stick.

[ReganX]

No. This is one of the main reasons that the whole thing, IMO, is garbage served on a stick.

I would love to be able to get an honest response from whoever had the (not so) bright idea of putting Mitchell in charge about whether they would do it differently with hindsight.

[ReganX]

Woo-hooo! But he wouldn't be "fun" and "enthusiastic".

I coulda dealt with this Mitchell. Though I still think I'd have felt Sam got shafted.

Suse

If they wanted Mitchell to be fun and enthusiastic, he should have been a major at the highest - preferably a captain or lieutenant if they could get a younger actor to play him.

If they wanted to have him lead the team, they should have made him the competent, experienced, full colonel commander of SG-Pick-A-Number.

The roles of enthusiastic newbie and team leader don't mix, nor should they.

[ParadoxRealities]

found some lines i don't think we've mentioned yet.

Proving Ground
"O'NEILL: You're a fine officer. The Air Force has already decided that or you wouldn't be here. But not everyone is cut out to go off world."
"O'NEILL: You left one of your team members behind. That's one thing I will not tolerate, Lieutenant!" grrrrrrrr. you know, this would imply he also hates leaving your TEAM behind.
"HAMMOND: Apparently, Lieutenant Elliot is planning on assaulting the briefing room from several points of access." you see to do this, he'd haev to KNOW HIS WAY AROUND THE PLACE.
"CARTER: It was important for us to know how you'd react in a real life situation before you encountered one like it offworld." keyword: BEFORE.

Lockdown
VASELOV: Perhaps I could assume a role as a non-combat observer on one of the exploration units, sir.
O'NEILL: It was nice meeting you. Very nice. You’re dismissed. *gestures to the door*" so that's a no, right?

Avalon Part 1
"TECH: Who's that?" why, it's our new hero! don't you recognize him from the weeks of training and months to years he spent on an SG team here?
"MITCHELL to Daniel: My friends call me Cameron. *shakes hands*" huh. apparently they've never met. odd, considering.

[ReganX]

found some lines i don't think we've mentioned yet.

Proving Ground
"O'NEILL: You're a fine officer. The Air Force has already decided that or you wouldn't be here. But not everyone is cut out to go off world."
"O'NEILL: You left one of your team members behind. That's one thing I will not tolerate, Lieutenant!" grrrrrrrr. you know, this would imply he also hates leaving your TEAM behind.
"HAMMOND: Apparently, Lieutenant Elliot is planning on assaulting the briefing room from several points of access." you see to do this, he'd haev to KNOW HIS WAY AROUND THE PLACE.
"CARTER: It was important for us to know how you'd react in a real life situation before you encountered one like it offworld." keyword: BEFORE.

Lockdown
VASELOV: Perhaps I could assume a role as a non-combat observer on one of the exploration units, sir.
O'NEILL: It was nice meeting you. Very nice. You’re dismissed. *gestures to the door*" so that's a no, right?

Avalon Part 1
"TECH: Who's that?" why, it's our new hero! don't you recognize him from the weeks of training and months to years he spent on an SG team here?
"MITCHELL to Daniel: My friends call me Cameron. *shakes hands*" huh. apparently they've never met. odd, considering.

It stands to reason that a tour of the SGC would be an early part of the training course and that this tour would include a glimpse of the stargate itself.

In "Proving Ground", they were working on an offworld training program so that they weren't tying up the SGC and in Season Eight we see that the Alpha Site is in operation, an excellent spot for this training. Unless they decided to have Mitchell fly himself there in an F-302, a foolish waste of resources and time, it is safe to say that he never underwent any kind of training. Let's face it, do you see Mitchell passing the training course in "Proving Ground", given what we've seen of him?

[ParadoxRealities]

It stands to reason that a tour of the SGC would be an early part of the training course and that this tour would include a glimpse of the stargate itself.

probably more than a glimpse. probably more like, you see those little symbols? memorize 'em. in order. now memorize all these.

In "Proving Ground", they were working on an offworld training program so that they weren't tying up the SGC and in Season Eight we see that the Alpha Site is in operation, an excellent spot for this training. Unless they decided to have Mitchell fly himself there in an F-302, a foolish waste of resources and time, it is safe to say that he never underwent any kind of training. Let's face it, do you see Mitchell passing the training course in "Proving Ground", given what we've seen of him?

lets see, first they had to infiltrate a building to provide BACKUP, and realize they needed to shoot both of them. well, if he had additional ground training and hopefully some kind of experience before hand, i think he could do the former passably. however, he didn't, so no, i doubt it considering Babylon. The latter? never. he doesn't think like that. He'd probably try to talk to them and end up getting shot. he'd never forget it though. not that knowing that particular situation would help, nor get him in the correct frame of mind.
Then, they needed to enter the building and disarm the bomb under opposing fire. again, given his ground skills, no. though i can see him yelling at his science officer to hurry up, so he's got that part down .
The there was the foothold situation. i can't see him doing well on that. his ground skills are up to that par. however, he may have been good at thinking in 3D (between levels), though probably not as good as Elliot. i can see things like his timing and direction being off because its like flying, but not quite.
Then he has to rescue someone. i can see him doing this. just not well. as he demonstrated in AM and Stronghold, he cares, but he can't do. however, if i were Jack, i wouldn't give him the same type of scenario i gave Elliot. from his record we know that Mitchell is impatient and tends to risk other's lives. instead of having him just go rescue someone, I'd give him a situation like Stronghold. i have a feeling he'd fail that spectacularly. the rest he probably COULD do, if trained enough, but the effort probably wouldn't be worth the gain. there are plenty of other officers if the Academy and other sources are turning out 4 or 5 every few months. But i just feel like there's a mindset, and attitude he's not going to get rid of. he's too much of a goof-off. maybe he just needs a good ass-kicking scare to prove him it's not a game. but i think there's something else.

heh heh. that was rhetorical, wasn't it? too much information, PR.

[ReganX]

probably more than a glimpse. probably more like, you see those little symbols? memorize 'em. in order. now memorize all these.lets see, first they had to infiltrate a building to provide BACKUP, and realize they needed to shoot both of them. well, if he had additional ground training and hopefully some kind of experience before hand, i think he could do the former passably. however, he didn't, so no, i doubt it considering Babylon. The latter? never. he doesn't think like that. He'd probably try to talk to them and end up getting shot. he'd never forget it though. not that knowing that particular situation would help, nor get him in the correct frame of mind.
Then, they needed to enter the building and disarm the bomb under opposing fire. again, given his ground skills, no. though i can see him yelling at his science officer to hurry up, so he's got that part down .
The there was the foothold situation. i can't see him doing well on that. his ground skills are up to that par. however, he may have been good at thinking in 3D (between levels), though probably not as good as Elliot. i can see things like his timing and direction being off because its like flying, but not quite.
Then he has to rescue someone. i can see him doing this. just not well. as he demonstrated in AM and Stronghold, he cares, but he can't do. however, if i were Jack, i wouldn't give him the same type of scenario i gave Elliot. from his record we know that Mitchell is impatient and tends to risk other's lives. instead of having him just go rescue someone, I'd give him a situation like Stronghold. i have a feeling he'd fail that spectacularly. the rest he probably COULD do, if trained enough, but the effort probably wouldn't be worth the gain. there are plenty of other officers if the Academy and other sources are turning out 4 or 5 every few months. But i just feel like there's a mindset, and attitude he's not going to get rid of. he's too much of a goof-off. maybe he just needs a good ass-kicking scare to prove him it's not a game. but i think there's something else.

heh heh. that was rhetorical, wasn't it? too much information, PR.

I want Jack to come back to the SGC, read the mission reports from "Stronghold", smack Mitchell over the head with the folder and reassign him as Walter's assistant.

Walter needs an assistant and there's only so much damage Mitchell can do making coffee and doing the photocopying.

[ParadoxRealities]

I want Jack to come back to the SGC, read the mission reports from "Stronghold", smack Mitchell over the head with the folder and reassign him as Walter's assistant.

someone in Washinton's rewriting mission reports before they get to him. one of these days he's going to realize Sam doesn't misspell "running" and start asking questions.

Walter needs an assistant and there's only so much damage Mitchell can do making coffee and doing the photocopying.

oh, you'd be surprised.

[ReganX]

someone in Washinton's rewriting mission reports before they get to him. one of these days he's going to realize Sam doesn't misspell "running" and start asking questions.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of report editing going on. I don't know if Jack gets all the mission reports, or if Landry just sends him an overview of each mission. Landry seems fairly paternal towards Mitchell at times, so maybe he's protecting him and showing him in the best possible light.

It's also possible that Sam, Daniel and Teal'c wanted to give Mitchell a chance at first and downplaying some of his errors in judgement (okay, screw-ups) because they wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and were confident that he'd learn.

Plus, Mitchell obviously has a friend in a high place and that friend may be responsible for his perfect record.

oh, you'd be surprised.

True. As Walter's assistant, Mitchell's duties will consist entirely of standing still when Walter gets ticked off about something and wants to throw things at him.

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

Very true.

1. They established in Season Five that officers aspiring to join SG teams underwent special training, and that this training was soon to take place offworld. Mitchell had never even seen the stargate and therefore could not have taken part in that training program.

2. Jack refused the application of an officer to join SG-1 when the officer in question had far more flight experience, a higher rank and even more military decorations than Mitchell. He made it clear that an impressive resume wasn't going to get anybody on SG-1. How much pickier would he have been about a potential leader for SG-1?

3. Jack also stated that "everyone else on this base" wanted to be a part of SG-1 in "Lockdown". Why were these people overlooked and Mitchell given the coveted spot. It wasn't because Jack was so impressed with his actions in the battle over Antarctica. Though he may downplay his intelligence, Jack is not an idiot. He wouldn't consider one act enough of a reason to put Mitchell on SG-1 ahead of experienced officers he knew and could count on.

1 + 2 + 3 = Jack would never have put Mitchell on SG-1, let alone wanted to have him lead a team.

I could maybe buy Landry trusting an impressive resume and giving him a chance based on that, but that doesn't explain Sam's conveniently timed departure for Area 51. Any commander with an ounce of sense should have wanted her to stick around for at least a few missions, both to show Mitchell the ropes and, more importantly, to evaluate whether or not he could be trusted with the role of team leader. If Sam was unavailable, another SG team commander should have done this.

I'm convinced that these are all contrivances to get the "O'Neill" seal of approval on stuff that's 'contrary to canon'. A wery weak attempt to get weteran fans to buy into it. I mean, they had Jack himself act out of character and contrary to canon. Either they think we're th-tupid or in their over-reaching for new viewers they don't care.

I'm voting for the latter. I refuse to believe all my hard work in college and grad school was for nothing....

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

<snip>

It's also possible that Sam, Daniel and Teal'c wanted to give Mitchell a chance at first and downplaying some of his errors in judgement (okay, screw-ups) because they wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and were confident that he'd learn.<snip>

This is perfectly reasonable - good point.

True. As Walter's assistant, Mitchell's duties will consist entirely of standing still when Walter gets ticked off about something and wants to throw things at him.

Wow, character development for Walter - now that would be fun!