S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ParadoxRealities]

I agree totally that Sam should have remained commander of SG-1. I don't care what the off-screen reasons for her being in command in Season Eight were, she was written as being in command and should have kept that position in Season Nine and beyond.

Jack chose to have Sam command SG-1, rather than bring in a higher ranking officer to lead. After seven years serving with her, I think that it would be fair to say that he knew her very well, her strengths and her weaknesses, and that he would not have entrusted her with command of SG-1, or with the lives of Daniel and Teal'c, if he had not believed that she was ready.

If Mitchell couldn't be introduced except as leader, then Mitchell should not have been introduced.

exactly. i don't understand people's insistence that ANYTHING like this had to happen. they didn't need any pilot, why would they? the order in choice of sense is 1) Carter, with a qualified captain as 2IC. someone like Hailey, with maybe 2 years more experience 2)an experienced and qualified leader from another SG team, with Carter there temporarily. preferably one that we know. there was LITERALLY zero reason to bring in a pilot with no offworld experience or ground skills. we didn't know him, we didn't need him, and he didn't deserve the offer he got.

[ReganX]

exactly. i don't understand people's insistence that ANYTHING like this had to happen. they didn't need any pilot, why would they? the order in choice of sense is 1) Carter, with a qualified captain as 2IC. someone like Hailey, with maybe 2 years more experience 2)an experienced and qualified leader from another SG team, with Carter there temporarily. preferably one that we know. there was LITERALLY zero reason to bring in a pilot with no offworld experience or ground skills. we didn't know him, we didn't need him, and he didn't deserve the offer he got.

Exactly!

I don't think that a new character on SG-1 was necessary - obviously, Landry was needed - but, as you say, somebody like Hailey (who would have had about three and a half years experience on an SG team when Season Nine began) would have been a good choice if they had to have a fourth, she's somebody who already existed in the Stargate universe.

I think that it would have been better if SG-1 had remained a three person team, with Sam in command, maybe giving some of the supporting characters a stronger role. Had I had my way, Daniel and Teal'c would have been working with another SG team in the first episodes, while Amanda Tapping was away.

Even if bringing in a fourth was necessary, and that fourth absolutely had to be played by Ben Browder, that did not mean that they had to remove Sam from command or that they should have removed Sam from command. Major Mitchell would have worked much better.

[ParadoxRealities]

i guess what i'm trying to say is
WHY THE HECK DID THIS HAPPEN?!?!?! or rather, with another 4 letter word.
and people wonder why we point to the need for a Big Name White Male Lead to replace the loved veteran lead characters.

[Rogue]

Because that entire post was too long to go thru bit by bit and my Stargate knowledge is insufficient to argue with you anyway, I just have one question...would it make any difference if some other pilot was chosen? Other than the existing team, none of whom apparently was planning or desiring to lead SG1 given that they'd scattered to the four winds, was there some other character whom the audience already knew who would have been preferable to lead the team?

And, if not, how would you have introduced a new lead character? Again, I'm not talking about Sam in charge because, for whatever reason, that wasn't in the cards and the storyline was that she'd gone to research and development. I'm just curious to know how other people would have handled that change.

Incidentally, I will read the post when I'm actually mostly awake. It looks interesting and enlightening.

They main purpose of spliting up the team was to rebuild it with Cam in charge. They couldn't do it with Sam still hanging around so poof she is transfered with using Cassie as the escape goat. They wanted a male action hero that would charge into battle without a second thought, swing the sword at the Black Knight, and make stupid decisions that got the team into situations. Sam wouldn't do any of that so poof she is demoted.


He needed to introduced as either :

1) Newly promoted Col that had served on another SGC team and had earned a spot as CO of a team.

or

2) As a Major under Sams command.

The problem is they wanted a fish out of water storyline with Cam also in charge. The background story was so lame. I find it hard to believe that 9 years into the program they are assigning a gate rookie to be leader of SG-1 or any team for that matter. Even if he did go through the SGC training program, which I doubt he did, he would be assigned to team under a seasoned veteran.

It just amazes me that this was the best that TPTB could come up with.

[Albion]

... then again, I wouldn't be surprised if there is dialogue in 200 that explains that Mitchell has accomplished his 200th trip In Record-Breaking Time!

<snork> Yeah and they'll probably give him another medal for that.

Interesting posts on Mitchell -v- using existing characters. I hadn't ever thought of Hailey before now, but, yes, she would have been an excellent choice to have brought onto the team as a new fourth member. New blood, slightly green, still learning, although already a good soldier and with all the qualities one would expect to have gotten her there. A slight friction, almost sibling rivalry/professional jealousy thing going on between her and Sam to spice things up; that tension we saw previously on screen. The possibility to watch her develop a working/friendship relationship with Daniel and Teal'c. Now, see, that would have been interesting.

And...natural. Evolving naturally out of existing past events and characters we've journeyed with over several years.

I think that's what I object to most with Mitchell. Nothing about it was natural. Not how he got the position, the leadership, the command, why he was at the SGC...none of it. It stuck out like a sore thumb as a completely manufactured, unnatural, grafted on solution. You know that experiment they did some years back - those pictures of that poor mouse with a human ear grafted on to its back? That's Mitchell. An abomination. <g>

I also agree that if they were absolutely bound and determined to replace Sam in command and have a leading man, then Dixon would have been a much better bet. Again for the same reasons as above - a natural evolution, a character the fans already knew and had warmed to. I'd understand why Dixon was in command of SG1. Hell, yes!

I find it hard to believe that 9 years into the program they are assigning a gate rookie to be leader of SG-1 or any team for that matter.

Remember Shades of Grey?

TEAL'C: For what purpose were we summoned?

DANIEL: My guess is we're getting our fourth.

CARTER: Who do you think it will be?

DANIEL: We'll probably get someone like Ferretti and you'll get command.

CARTER: Oh, I don't know about that. They'll probably go with someone higher than Major.

Hammond comes down the stairs followed by Makepeace. Last seen in Into the Fire.

HAMMOND: As you were. Since SG-1 is considered the flagship unit, it falls on me to ensure you have the strongest possible leadership. Therefore, I'm reassigning the most senior officer we have in the field as your new commanding officer. Colonel Makepeace will be joining SG-1 immediately. I hope you'll make him feel welcome.

Guess standards have slipped some since Hammond's day. You know, I'm beginning to think Mitchell has naughty pics of Landry stashed somewhere in his locker...


Albion

[kazzyk]

This is just down right scary and only a week to go

[suse]

Woo-hooo! But he wouldn't be "fun" and "enthusiastic".

I coulda dealt with this Mitchell. Though I still think I'd have felt Sam got shafted.

Suse

First of all, I don’t think that a new “lead” was necessary, or that it has been beneficial to the show to try to force a new character into the spotlight to the detriment of the established characters. The existing characters should have each been moved up one spot in the credits (except Michael Shanks, who has his “and”) and, if a fourth member for SG-1 was needed, he or she should have slotted between Christopher Judge and Beau Bridges, and the credits would have been more like those for Atlantis, without over-emphasizing one actor.

I firmly believe that the best course of action would have been to introduce Mitchell as a major, preferably one who would not make an appearance until after the halfway point of Season Nine, and had him as 2IC, somebody we could watch Sam guiding and training and then, a few years down the line - basically whenever Amanda Tapping wanted to leave or to take a reduced schedule as the new base commander - he could take over command of SG-1 as an established character, one we had seen learn and grow and, hopefully, come to like.

As far as none of the team “planning or desiring to lead SG1” goes, of course nobody was planning to lead SG-1, there was no need for them to. SG-1 already had a perfectly good commander and the only reason that the team were “scattered to the four winds” was to facilitate a ridiculously contrived plot device to insert Mitchell into the mix. Even taking Amanda Tapping’s pregnancy and brief absence into account, it would have been possible to work around her absence and to introduce a new character without writing her out of command.

Mitchell’s character was poorly introduced. Whether or not they intended it, the writers have made him somebody who did not deserve his position on SG-1. The only reason he is on the team is because he asked to be. If the part about Mitchell being offered any post he wanted – an offer that strongly suggests that somebody is pulling strings for him – had been replaced with Jack visiting the hospital, mentioning that he had read Mitchell’s file and that he had a job he might be interested in when he got better, or if Mitchell had applied to join the SGC while he was recovering and Jack or Landry approved his application, the story would be improved slightly.

The CMOH was a terrible idea, plain and simple.

Had any of the other pilots been the one chosen, my answer would be the same.

As I’ve said, I don’t consider it necessary, but hypothetically speaking, if it had been absolutely essential for another lead character to be introduced and for that character to be leader of SG-1, then I would have written Mitchell as somebody who could believably lead, somebody with more experience and a higher rank than Sam.

Ben Browder is forty-three, am I correct? He would have been forty-two at the beginning of Season Nine, old enough to play a full colonel, someone who had been in command of SG-Pick-A-Number for several years before being transferred to lead SG-1 in Sam’s absence. While the reasons for Sam’s initial loss of command would still be the work of the plot device fairies, it would at least be believable for her not to displace somebody who outranked her and had more experience commanding an SG team than she did.

This version of Mitchell would be straight-laced, fairly unbending in his opinions and by the book, accustomed to a team of military officers and a bit thrown by the different dynamics of SG-1. He would eventually mellow a little and learn to compromise when he had to, but there would always be some distance between him and the team, as well as some differences of opinion regarding procedure.

[esoap524]

dixon...okay, I'll have to keep an eye out for him.

[AGateFan]

<snork> Yeah and they'll probably give him another medal for that.

Interesting posts on Mitchell -v- using existing characters. I hadn't ever thought of Hailey before now, but, yes, she would have been an excellent choice to have brought onto the team as a new fourth member. New blood, slightly green, still learning, although already a good soldier and with all the qualities one would expect to have gotten her there. A slight friction, almost sibling rivalry/professional jealousy thing going on between her and Sam to spice things up; that tension we saw previously on screen. The possibility to watch her develop a working/friendship relationship with Daniel and Teal'c. Now, see, that would have been interesting.

And...natural. Evolving naturally out of existing past events and characters we've journeyed with over several years.

I think that's what I object to most with Mitchell. Nothing about it was natural. Not how he got the position, the leadership, the command, why he was at the SGC...none of it. It stuck out like a sore thumb as a completely manufactured, unnatural, grafted on solution. You know that experiment they did some years back - those pictures of that poor mouse with a human ear grafted on to its back? That's Mitchell. An abomination. <g>

I also agree that if they were absolutely bound and determined to replace Sam in command and have a leading man, then Dixon would have been a much better bet. Again for the same reasons as above - a natural evolution, a character the fans already knew and had warmed to. I'd understand why Dixon was in command of SG1. Hell, yes!



Remember Shades of Grey?



Guess standards have slipped some since Hammond's day. You know, I'm beginning to think Mitchell has naughty pics of Landry stashed somewhere in his locker...


Albion

Yes, ever since Hammond left the entire place has fallen apart.

[ParadoxRealities]

dixon...okay, I'll have to keep an eye out for him.

though i still prefer sam.

Oh Beloved Moddess Sky (yeah, that's a keeper), how loudly do you guys tend to yell about hotlinking pics from the GW Omnipedia? makes this stuff so much quicker.

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

Okay, gotta be totally honest here. Dixon - so negative! Ouch - it hurt to listen to 'im. For a while there I was worried they were going to put him on the team. I'm glad they didn't - but it would have made more sense than left-field Mitchell.

Shoulda been Sam.

[binkpmmc]

There is so much canon and history to this show that speaks AGAINST a character like mitchell even being ON the team never mind co-leader of it that it makes the show about as credible as a bank robber caught on videocamera claiming he's innocent. TPKTS have definitely stooped lower than I ever could have imagined - the ratings reflect the direction of the show so I see S10 ratings continuing in the same direction they ended S9.

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

There is so much canon and history to this show that speaks AGAINST a character like mitchell even being ON the team never mind co-leader of it that it makes the show about as credible as a bank robber caught on videocamera claiming he's innocent. TPKTS have definitely stooped lower than I ever could have imagined - the ratings reflect the direction of the show so I see S10 ratings continuing in the same direction they ended S9.

And hence we come yet again to the reason I'm on this thread...oops, that was my last post....

I could not agree more - what a great way to put it: "GOING AGAINST CANON". Amen preach it.

When you go against canon that much you are making a new show. Speaking of going against canon, dare I mention putting Vala on the team??? Like that would ever happen...

Let the zat fire begin....

[ReganX]

There is so much canon and history to this show that speaks AGAINST a character like mitchell even being ON the team never mind co-leader of it that it makes the show about as credible as a bank robber caught on videocamera claiming he's innocent. TPKTS have definitely stooped lower than I ever could have imagined - the ratings reflect the direction of the show so I see S10 ratings continuing in the same direction they ended S9.

Very true.

1. They established in Season Five that officers aspiring to join SG teams underwent special training, and that this training was soon to take place offworld. Mitchell had never even seen the stargate and therefore could not have taken part in that training program.

2. Jack refused the application of an officer to join SG-1 when the officer in question had far more flight experience, a higher rank and even more military decorations than Mitchell. He made it clear that an impressive resume wasn't going to get anybody on SG-1. How much pickier would he have been about a potential leader for SG-1?

3. Jack also stated that "everyone else on this base" wanted to be a part of SG-1 in "Lockdown". Why were these people overlooked and Mitchell given the coveted spot. It wasn't because Jack was so impressed with his actions in the battle over Antarctica. Though he may downplay his intelligence, Jack is not an idiot. He wouldn't consider one act enough of a reason to put Mitchell on SG-1 ahead of experienced officers he knew and could count on.

1 + 2 + 3 = Jack would never have put Mitchell on SG-1, let alone wanted to have him lead a team.

I could maybe buy Landry trusting an impressive resume and giving him a chance based on that, but that doesn't explain Sam's conveniently timed departure for Area 51. Any commander with an ounce of sense should have wanted her to stick around for at least a few missions, both to show Mitchell the ropes and, more importantly, to evaluate whether or not he could be trusted with the role of team leader. If Sam was unavailable, another SG team commander should have done this.

[binkpmmc]

Very true.

1. They established in Season Five that officers aspiring to join SG teams underwent special training, and that this training was soon to take place offworld. Mitchell had never even seen the stargate and therefore could not have taken part in that training program.

2. Jack refused the application of an officer to join SG-1 when the officer in question had far more flight experience, a higher rank and even more military decorations than Mitchell. He made it clear that an impressive resume wasn't going to get anybody on SG-1. How much pickier would he have been about a potential leader for SG-1?

3. Jack also stated that "everyone else on this base" wanted to be a part of SG-1 in "Lockdown". Why were these people overlooked and Mitchell given the coveted spot. It wasn't because Jack was so impressed with his actions in the battle over Antarctica. Though he may downplay his intelligence, Jack is not an idiot. He wouldn't consider one act enough of a reason to put Mitchell on SG-1 ahead of experienced officers he knew and could count on.

1 + 2 + 3 = Jack would never have put Mitchell on SG-1, let alone wanted to have him lead a team.

I could maybe buy Landry trusting an impressive resume and giving him a chance based on that, but that doesn't explain Sam's conveniently timed departure for Area 51. Any commander with an ounce of sense should have wanted her to stick around for at least a few missions, both to show Mitchell the ropes and, more importantly, to evaluate whether or not he could be trusted with the role of team leader. If Sam was unavailable, another SG team commander should have done this.

Don't forget the very relevant quote from Hammond in Shades of Grey when he appointed someone else as SG1 leader (as pointed out by another poster earlier and I am sorry I forget who so I cannot give proper credit here.) and the fact that Daniel and Teal'c were against it and thought Carter should be leader and SAID SO - where was that same reaction (or any reaction at all) when a useless noob was appointed and they agreed to come back - what a crock o'crap it is from start to finish there is so much history and canon that contradicts this dreck it's laughable. TPKTS are really hitting the bottom of the barrel - look up every word that means garbage and use it - that's how I feel about this junk right now.