S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

Looking at those commentary transcripts, some things stand out. Like this one:



They KNOW things are sloppy. Yet it continues...

We'll keep hoping that awareness turns into something, hmm?

it continues because, it seems, that no one has the cajones/ability to call people on these mistakes. it's like there's no quality control anymore. no one sitting down with a red marker saying 'wrong, wrong, this makes no sense'

they just neraly dislocate thier shoulders patting htemselves on their backs allt he time with how great and fantastic they are

[kazzyk]

I had heard that about MS too but do not remember where--would love to have a link.

[kazzyk]

it continues because, it seems, that no one has the cajones/ability to call people on these mistakes. it's like there's no quality control anymore. no one sitting down with a red marker saying 'wrong, wrong, this makes no sense'

they just neraly dislocate thier shoulders patting htemselves on their backs allt he time with how great and fantastic they are

Sky--do you think TPTB even care anymore?

[pittsburghgirl]

Sky--do you think TPTB even care anymore?

oh I think they care-but only about what they want and not what the viewers want.

i would have to tell you though-that were they door to door salesman they would starve. if you don't have a product that somebody wants to buy-it won't matter how wonderful you think it is.

when you can sell birthcontrol to the pope or a refrigerator to an eskimo-you have a supersales man-but if you can't even sell something that somebody actually wants-you have a big problem.

[pittsburghgirl]

The big question-as I see it:

Are they really as dense as we perceive them to be?

[Strix varia]

The big question-as I see it:

Are they really as dense as we perceive them to be?

I don't think they're dense at all. I think they're overworked and probably burned out. Which translates to: they don't really care; or at least don't have the energy to care enough to fix the problems.

[Skydiver]

i think it's a combo of a lot of things

network interferance. which i think is HUGE. I think skiffy is pulling thier strings something horrible, but is, of course, denying it because they'd rather blame TPTB

burnout likely has something to do with it. not to mention being overworked, cranking out 40 eps in the time they used to do 20

lack of leadership. there doesn't seem to be anyone who will or can say 'dude, this plot hole is ridiculous, fix it' or if they do say it, no one seems to be listening

they believe thier own press. they honestly and truly believe that htey are making the bestest show ever and just can't see what we dont' like about it

[ReganX]

i think it's a combo of a lot of things

network interferance. which i think is HUGE. I think skiffy is pulling thier strings something horrible, but is, of course, denying it because they'd rather blame TPTB

burnout likely has something to do with it. not to mention being overworked, cranking out 40 eps in the time they used to do 20

lack of leadership. there doesn't seem to be anyone who will or can say 'dude, this plot hole is ridiculous, fix it' or if they do say it, no one seems to be listening

they believe thier own press. they honestly and truly believe that htey are making the bestest show ever and just can't see what we dont' like about it

Plenty of blame to go around?

[Amanda Eros]

Plenty of blame to go around?

And now they want to start a third series along with a movie?!

They need to heir more people to run both shows. Or at least make new positions to catch plot holes. For example they could recruit a panel of five fans, have them read over their scripts, and have them tell them what they think about their ideas and if there are any plot holes. I'm sure that there is probably at least five Vancouver housewives that are addicted to the show who for the cost of daycare or weekly groceries could spend one day a week for four or five months a year going over the scripts.

[AGateFan]

it continues because, it seems, that no one has the cajones/ability to call people on these mistakes. it's like there's no quality control anymore. no one sitting down with a red marker saying 'wrong, wrong, this makes no sense'

they just neraly dislocate thier shoulders patting htemselves on their backs allt he time with how great and fantastic they are

The "How Come Room" is where the AF advisor and anyone else with sense and taste has been locked up (sealed in concreat) for the last two year. The new meeting place for TPTB is PDLs cool bathroom desk.... look just like The Fonz... coooooollllllll. (and another easter egg homage you never new about)

[binkpmmc]

I just posted this in a different thread but think it also fits here so here goes:

Addressing the "excuses" angle that TPRTS always fall back on and use as copouts regarding the show I have the following observation, and I have said this before but I recently read an article about Desperate Housewives that got me thinking again and the fact that most people involved with that show, from cast to crew, including Marc Cherry the EP and creator of the show, (usually the No. 1 or 2 network show each week with 15+ MILLION viewers and oooodles of advertiising dollars) ADMIT that MISTAKES have been made in S2. This is my biggest problem with TPRTS on Stargate - they REFUSE to admit THEY made mistakes and they refuse to acknowledge any problems with characters, writing, direction, arcs, etc. The cast and crew of one of the biggest network shows on TV right now are mature enough and confident enough in their abilities to admit these things why can't cooper and his merry men? (It is the same thing I have said about people like JJ Abrams from Alias fame - in the past he too admitted mistakes with Alias' direction, characters, arc, etc., and his show was no slouch in the NETWORK ratings game either). If these guys get it I am not sure what the problem is with cooper and his cronies.

Back to DH - some of what was said in the article by cast and crew resonated because they are exact same issues many, many fans have had with Stargate SG1 (and SGA) the past few seasons:

"Season 2 was a letdown from the breakout success . . . " Same can and has been said about S9 from S8s success in the ratings.

"The cast got a little thick." uuuhhh S9 and S10 as examples. I harken back to cooper and others saying in the past that it is a 4 man team and writing for 5 or more would take away from the dynamic that is why Jonas had to go -- but even having a 4 man team in S9 seemed to be a bust and TPRTS couldn't handle it but when you add Lam and Landry you have a bigger mess and I fear for what will hapen with S10.

Re: the addition of the Applewhites (Alfre Woodards storyline): "Viewers were pretty vocal about what they liked and what they didn't - like brining in a new family with NO CONNECTION TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD." Change neighborhood to "SG1" and you have the biggest and loudest complaint about S9 -- mitchell, the contrived, hewo, leader, coming out of the blue with no real connection and no experience and all we get is a contrived backstory that doesn't fly (get it? he's a pilot - sorry lame I know) and we are told instead of shown and what we are shown is a very sorry excuse for an SGC officer never mind co-leader of the elite team.

Spoiler:

Seems that Cherry and others knew a bad thing when they saw it and, despite the story being one that was meant to be "pivotal to S2" the Applewhites, with an actress the caliber of Alfre Woodard, have been written out after only one season.

I can only hope TPRTS come to their senses the way people involved in seriously huge network TV shows do.

Terry Hatcher on Susan's arc in S2: "She hasn't had one". Change the names Susan to AT and Sam, MS and Daniel, or CJ and Teal'c and you have another one of the biggest, loudest complaints - the BIG 3 being relegated to the foils and the background and the wallpaper. Fans do not watch DH for the Applewhites and likewise many, many fans do not watch SG1 for mitchell or vala -- they have and do watch for Sam, Daniel and Teal'c - the team and the formula that worked for 8 years.

Hathcher again: "They've sort of thrown some things up against the wall and tried to see if they'd stick, and they haven't." HHmmmm sounds familar to what we have seen come out of bridge in S9. I recall reading this type of sentiment many times across forums with regard to the B@B.

Anyway, as I have said in the past I have a lot more respect for people in this business who are willing to admit mistakes and then acknowledge them and fix them. The respect level I have for the b@b has been falling for the past several seasons and it took a potentially deadly hit with S9.

A lot of what was in the article about DH and a lot of what the cast, crew said resonated and could have been written about Stargate - if TPRTS had the same confidence and abilities that the DH people do to admit mistakes have been made, that THEY have made the mistakes and acknowledge that they will fix them instead of always denying the show has taken a turn for the worse, instead of coming up with lame, cop-out excuses and instead of looking to drop responsibility at the feet of anything they can find except themselves - the people who make the show. Let's see Alfre Woodard versus Ben Browder -- no offense intended but I would do everything in my power to make a story with the likes of Alfre Woodard work before Ben Browder and the people at mega-hit DH were willing to let AW go so I would not even blink an eye if BB were to disappear from Stargate.

wow this got kind of long - sorry.

[suse]

I don't think they're dense at all. I think they're overworked and probably burned out. Which translates to: they don't really care; or at least don't have the energy to care enough to fix the problems.

Agreed. But whose fault is it they are burnt out? Hire more bloody writers/directors! Hire a creative consultant (like jms did harlan Ellison) who can tell you you are spewing vomit. Inconceivable! (I do not think that word means what you think it means.) Yes, it's money, but if the fans are pissed and don't watch there is no show. GAH!

Suse

Suse

[MediaSavant]

A lot of what was in the article about DH and a lot of what the cast, crew said resonated and could have been written about Stargate - if TPRTS had the same confidence and abilities that the DH people do to admit mistakes have been made, that THEY have made the mistakes and acknowledge that they will fix them instead of always denying the show has taken a turn for the worse

I think the reason "why" is two key differences:

1. DH's ratings went down while the ratings of its "lead out" show "Grey's Anatomy" went up. For SG-1, its ratings went down the same percentage at Atlantis and Galactica. Thus, it was less obvious that anything was wrong with SG-1 ratings-wise that wasn't also effecting the other programs also. They knew the quality of BSG wasn't going down--because of all the critical kudos it got. Thus, the ratings decline for all three shows could be attributed to increased competition and not decreased quality.

2. DH gets discussed in major newspapers and magazines. Thus, the dissatisfaction is more visible to the network and the producers. SG-1 only gets discussed on Gateworld. Week in and week out, episodes are rated by as "Excellent" or "Very Good" by 70-90% of the members of Gateworld. And this is the same for every season. So, if you are the network or the producers, it certainly doesn't appear that people are unhappy.

So, there's nothing for them to acknowledge since there isn't any highly visible evidence that anything is wrong. In DH, there was.

[Egraine]

I think the reason "why" is two key differences:

1. DH's ratings went down while the ratings of its "lead out" show "Grey's Anatomy" went up. For SG-1, its ratings went down the same percentage at Atlantis and Galactica. Thus, it was less obvious that anything was wrong with SG-1 ratings-wise that wasn't also effecting the other programs also. They knew the quality of BSG wasn't going down--because of all the critical kudos it got. Thus, the ratings decline for all three shows could be attributed to increased competition and not decreased quality.

2. DH gets discussed in major newspapers and magazines. Thus, the dissatisfaction is more visible to the network and the producers. SG-1 only gets discussed on Gateworld. Week in and week out, episodes are rated by as "Excellent" or "Very Good" by 70-90% of the members of Gateworld. And this is the same for every season. So, if you are the network or the producers, it certainly doesn't appear that people are unhappy.

So, there's nothing for them to acknowledge since there isn't any highly visible evidence that anything is wrong. In DH, there was.

As always...the voice of reason and knowledge. ((MS))

[AGateFan]

I think the reason "why" is two key differences:

1. DH's ratings went down while the ratings of its "lead out" show "Grey's Anatomy" went up. For SG-1, its ratings went down the same percentage at Atlantis and Galactica. Thus, it was less obvious that anything was wrong with SG-1 ratings-wise that wasn't also effecting the other programs also. They knew the quality of BSG wasn't going down--because of all the critical kudos it got. Thus, the ratings decline for all three shows could be attributed to increased competition and not decreased quality.

2. DH gets discussed in major newspapers and magazines. Thus, the dissatisfaction is more visible to the network and the producers. SG-1 only gets discussed on Gateworld. Week in and week out, episodes are rated by as "Excellent" or "Very Good" by 70-90% of the members of Gateworld. And this is the same for every season. So, if you are the network or the producers, it certainly doesn't appear that people are unhappy.

So, there's nothing for them to acknowledge since there isn't any highly visible evidence that anything is wrong. In DH, there was.

Crappy shows get high critical reviews all the time and still get cancelled.
Gateworld polls are poor proof of evidence of anything and if TPTB is using it as such they are in far worse shape then anyone thinks.

Maybe BSG and Atlantis went down because they are both average shows that were being propped up by SG-1 and the loss of the SG-1 lead in has affected the other two shows. Do I know this? No I dont know this for a fact... only that I watched the other two only because I watched SG-1 and now I watch none of them. A few other people I know are doing the same. So does this prove the SG-1 lead in kept the other two up? No, but it is at least as good a theory as what you say, critical acclaim means nothing for the success or failure of a show.

Edit : I probably should have said Average shows get high critical reviews all the time and still get cancelled. B5 won a hugo and still got cancelled. I liked that show but obviously it was just average to the average viewer. Some say B5 reached the end of its arch. But it was actually cancelled in S4 and then brought back for a S5 where it was expected to end anyway. So from what I consider good shows to what I consider crap....lots of stuff gets critical acclaim and lots of stuff still gets cancelled.