S10: Critique & Contemplation

[fems]

As I said earlier RDA left so they had to find a new lead because AT nor MS carried a show before BB has and I think they needed new blood and the people you suggested did not did carry a show there is your first flaw.

You are missing the point I'm trying to make; it wasn't about the actors when I named examples but the characters. People we've known over the years to have been involved in the SGC and have experience, a credible background unlike Mitchell one might say.

TPTB that also didn't have to find a new lead, they chose to do so. Despite RDA leaving they still had capable actors and good characters viewers/fans loved (some more than others, obviously) but for some reason it was decided that they needed a male lead. What was wrong with getting just a new character added to the show? The only argument you seem to be making is that BB was so awesome and perfect because he has had a male lead role in the past, in Farscape. Obviously TPTB wanted BB involved in the Stargate franchise (I've once read they wanted him to play Sheppard at first?) because they wanted to attract his fanbase, which seems to be the only reason they had for choosing him. Yet, when one looks at the ratings for season nine it's pretty clear there either wasn't any such effect (which seems wrong, considering the obvious fans he has here and the loads of people who enjoyed the last two seasons) or that because of their awesome new male lead, who'd at least carried a show once before, other long time viewers/fans left, which in total equals no real increase or decrease in ratings.

The second flaw in your argument Sam was not just a soldier if she was you would have an argument she was a scientist too that's why having a command at area 51 was the best of both worlds for Sam the character

If I've interpreted this correctly, which is kind of hard without proper punctuation I might add, you're saying that because Sam is a soldier and scientist a job in the labs of a scientific research center like Area 51 is the best option for her? It might be just me, but I'm sort of missing where the soldier part comes into play here.

As others have said the whole reason for Sam leaving the SGC to go play with alien tech at Area 51 doesn't make any sense. Oh yeah, she left just a week before Mitchell came to the SGC! Interesting, especially considering she was actually aboard Prometheus when Mitchell videoconferenced her and tried to guilt her into coming back... Yes, AT was on maternity leave but it could have been handled so much better for the Sam character. For example, she could have gone to, oh let's say work on Prometheus to work on the new Asgard systems they were installing... Oh wait, she was already there! How odd.

and once she left the command of SG-1 they had to fill it and IMHO she was going into the next phase of her life before she was dragged back and just because she came back doesn't mean she gets command back the position was filled the choice was made

She only went into the 'next phase of her life' because TPTB chose that for the character and then, when she was according to them mightily pleased with her new position commanding Stargate R&D at Area 51 she had to be reassigned back to the SGC. Not only did that make her lose this awesome command of an entire department (instead of just an alien and a civilian like on SG-1) which was so incredibly perfect for her versatile soldier/scientist persona, but she was also placed under the command of this new guy, a rookie when it came to ground combat, gate travel and alien cultures/technology in general. Oh, and as if that demotion wasn't bad enough, she was also most likely the senior officer of the two of them. But, you know, they needed her awesome big bad bomb to blow some stuff up, even though she, this authority on alien and Stargate-related technology, wasn't sure if it was enough. But that's okay, we'll just ignore her because that went oh so well when General Bauer did it back in Chain Reaction...

again it is not all about Sam this seems to be a hard for some to accept that it is not all about Sam.

You're absolutely right, it wasn't all about Sam, not at all! If anything, it was all about Mitchell, his preposterous introduction and ridiculous background. But, of course, I already mentioned that before when I was talking about season nine (and subsequently ten) and how it was really Mitchell's background/credentials that bothered me about him getting command of SG-1...

I don't think it was a bad introduction considering we have never met him before

You know who we had also never met before? All those people (regulars, recurring, guest stars and extras) that were introduced to the audience for the first time with a proper background, which fitted the story and made their roles/characters seem in place.

If TPTB had just left out the part where Mitchell is caressing the gate, the techs are whispering about this 'awesome hero pilot', his lack of credentials and all this crap about how SG-1 (and probably the rest of the universe) owed him for his role in the battle above Antarctica and simply introduced him as this SGC officer reporting to the new general, wondering what was up and was handed command of SG-1 because of his stellar performance as commander of SG-[random number] over the years then it would have... Oh, I don't know, made sense? Then most of the audience would have probably tried recalling seeing or hearing about him before but then we'd see him go catch up with the 'old' SG-1 members and maybe comment on his former team, how he'd been hoping to learn from SG-1 since until recently he'd been a major on SG-[random number] and had been looking forward to working with the first-contact/flagship team and getting in a bit more action and different kinds of missions to hone his battle skills more or something. Perhaps he'd express how everyone (meaning all the other SG teams) had been shocked how SG-1 had decided to move on but that it was understandable considering his own experience at the SGC. Still, he would have really enjoyed working with and learning from 'the best' after the handful of missions he'd done with SG-1 in the past. Or something like that to make him more credible.

but I get the feeling it was all about Sam & Jack for you and nothing would made you happy unless Sam & Jack were front and center.

Really, what makes you think that? Have you based that simply on the fact that I like their characters best and write fanfic for them? Because I can tell you right away that if you'd read my fanfic you would know I often involve the team (granted, the old team) and use the other SGC characters as well. If anything, I probably give some of them more credit - or at least full names - than they seem to be getting on screen with their minimized appearances yet supposed important roles at the base.

Yes, Sam and Jack are my favorite characters because I like their dynamic and personally think TPTB mistreated their relationship by promising confirmation over and over only to have exaggerated or cut out the shippy scenes because there wasn't enough time. Does that mean I'm not objective when it comes to other characters? I don't think so, especially considering there are other non-shippers that seem to have the same feelings about Mitchell (and Vala) and the way the last two seasons have been handled.

I also agree with others that Teal'c was pushed to the background and his importance was suddenly greatly diminished. It's strange for him to have worked so hard and sacrificed so much over the years (his family being outcasts, his marriage, missing his son growing up, not being there to protect his loved ones, losing those he'd considered friends etc) to free his people only to turn his back to them when it gets tough and politics get involved to establish a free nation. Like he wouldn't have known that would be the outcome if they succeeded from all his time watching Oprah or Dr. Phil. But obviously, it's much more fun for someone of over a hundred years old to babysit inexperienced Tauri on off-world missions, because who really wants to be involved in shaping the nation they've worked so hard for? I could go on to write an essay about this or maybe even a novel-length fic but my point was merely to point out how the writers didn't only mistreat Sam but also Teal'c.

But obviously my view is colored because of my favoritism for Sam and Jack and how my entire world revolves around them! I mean how dare Mitchell come in and take over SG-1 and hurt my Sammie's feelings? Doesn't he know that O'Neill was like a younger brother to Teal'c and how much Sam relied on him to keep her company and give meaningful advise? Teal'c was friends with both my super duper favorite characters so I just hate Mitchell and all he represents because of that. Right...

[fems]

again they are introducing a new lead so they have to make him important RDA is gone something I think you were unwilling to accept that is the impression I get

Well, if you'd read carefully you'll see I included examples of what Jack, Sam, Daniel and Teal'c have all done during their time at the SGC, not just Jack. But obviously you didn't catch my drift...

That may be true that there were alot of new characters but there were lots of spaces that needed to be filled and now they had the money to fill them RDA was gone and they had more money

Really? I thought you'd made it perfectly clear up until now that my only reasoning and upset had to do with RDA leaving. That is just one person, therefore just one space that has to be filled. Personally I think you are the one with an issue about RDA considering how you seem to imply he cost so much money they couldn't afford other characters on the show! That's just plain ridiculous considering we had another general (DSD) and a CMO (TR) on it for years while RDA was - shock horror - also on the payroll! Of course I could be mistaken, but I don't recall hearing anything about RDA demanded they transfer General Hammond and kill off Janet Fraiser so the actors would be off the show and he could add their salaries to his own.

Fact is, RDA left and TPTB decided they needed four new characters to fill up the void, which wasn't necessary. Jack was the base commander and he was gone, so they simply needed a new one. We already knew there was nothing in the regulations about there having to be four people on an SG team so really, Mitchell wasn't really necessary nor was Vala. As for Lam, well, considering Janet was KIA in 7x17 and no new CMO had ever been introduced/confirmed it doesn't seem all that necessary to introduce a new one for some scenes in ten episodes. They made do with other SGC doctors before we met Janet, during her time as CMO and after her death so why the sudden need for a CMO with no real reason?

Again, TPTB had this vision about what they wanted for these last two seasons even if it was completely different from what the show had been for eight years and they chose to add four new (regular/recurring) characters and introduce them all in the pilot episode.

I thought Landry was a good General and was a better General than Jack to be honest and RDA was gone they had to fill the position I thought they did the best they could under the circumstances. You can't expect to know everyone Jack knows lets be reasonable here

I have to disagree. My first reason you ask? Well, how about giving someone who's never even seen the stargate command of the SGC's flagship? Second? Handing him a bunch of files of people who were, according to him, suitable to be the on the first-contact team, representing and protecting Earth on other planets. I still haven't decided which one is worse, considering the candidates were awful but at least most of them had at least experience with gate travel, alien languages and/or ground combat and how Mitchell seemed to look down his nose at them, even though seeing his own credentials anyone of them could have easily been better for his own position.

At least Jack made it clear he expected the people on off-world teams to at least be trained properly when he was in charge of the base (Lockdown), possibly because he actually had experience and knew what kind of things happened off-world. Not to mention the rigorous training he put young hopefuls through and demands he made of them before they were even assigned to a team (Proving Ground), let alone be made team commander.

I know I can't be aware of all the people Jack knows but the introduction of his long lost buddy Landry was just a bit too convenient. One could wonder why the man had never been involved in the Program before, perhaps be assigned to an off-world base or even Atlantis.

I could go on but I feel I made my point regarding this pretty clear.

I really don't understand your anger is the the only Father Daughter relationship allowed in SG-1 Sam & Jacob in your world. I liked Lam I liked her edginess she was interesting.

Gosh, you really have issues with the character of Sam Carter, don't you? No, my problem with Carolyn Lam has nothing to do with the Carter family relationship. It had everything to do with the horribly conceived character she is. For someone of her age, with her qualifications, apparent expertise to have been working for the CDC for at least a couple of years and to be considered to be told about the SGC despite being a civilian and to be offered the job of CMO (above all the other doctors we've seen at the SGC throughout the years), well darn, that's got to be one special gal! But she wasn't. You would think, considering her credentials and my above mentioned qualifications, she has to be pretty smart to have accomplished all that and yet she comes across as this petulant, know it all, wronged child, who also happens to be the CMO of the base.

Now that I think about it... You know, how everything with me is all about Sam (and Jack/RDA, let's not forget him!) Lam is kind of Sam's opposite in much the same way Vala is. Lam was a military brat just like Sam, neither of them got to see much of their father because he was always gone on classified missions. Vala and Sam are opposites in how they handle themselves - their brains and femininity mostly - professionally.

Anyway, in the end it's their own (Sam and Lam) classified work that brings them back in touch with said fathers. Unfortunately, Sam seems to be the one to finally realize something about the difficulty of doing classified work and comes to understand her father somewhat, while Lam just... well, continues to behave like an unprofessional brat, even though her father is the base commander. Yes, when it comes to medical matters she can overrule him but otherwise she should still respect him and leave her issues with him at home.

Again, much like Vala Lam had the potential if she'd been written better, but in the end her role wasn't necessary and was just a little juvenile plot twist to make Landry seem more interesting or something.

I really don't understand your anger I loved Vala she was more than just a sexy alien to me. I saw her as a complicated woman who was colorful or since you clearly see things as black and white she was shades of grey. Not all women in the SGC have to be just like Sam and just so you know AT and CB wanted more scenes together and AT didn't want them to be rivals that's why Joe Mallozzi wrote those scenes in Family Ties with them together. If it is not between the actors nor the characters what's the point of having all that anger towards CB/Vala.

Well, I can just as easily say I don't understand your love for Vala, since I didn't like her at all. I certainly don't see everything in black and white, I much prefer colors actually.

You know a woman who wasn't like Sam at the SGC? Janet Fraiser, and I absolutely enjoyed that character. Yep, that's right, I enjoyed a female character that wasn't Sam! The thing with Vala is that she, much like Lam, was poorly conceived and horribly written. Honestly, it surprises me TPTB had ever been able to write characters like Sam and Janet when you look at Vala (and in lesser extent, Lam).

TPTB simply ignored (if not ridiculed) the concepts that had made Stargate SG-1 so popular to begin with in the last two seasons. It became a space comedy with easy, juvenile humor, plots and cliched characters and completely disregarded the whole military setting.

it was clear TPTB wanted BB and CB and went out of their way to accommodate their characters, first Mitchell to properly introduce him (albeit failing miserably) and later on Vala by basically rewriting the last of season nine and the whole of season ten to accommodate CB's real life pregnancy. In my opinion, TPTB mistreated not only the show and its concept, the cast of the last few years but also the two new actors by given them awful, undeveloped and poorly written characters.

[Mandysg1]

In my opinion, TPTB mistreated not only the show and its concept, the cast of the last few years but also the two new actors by given them awful, undeveloped and poorly written characters.

Very true, and it's not like they haven't introduced a new character before! Look at Jonas Quinn in S6, I think this was the best intro of a new character they have done. He was brought in to fill the space left behind by MS. He wasn't brought in to take over the show, he came into be one of the team; which he did well. The team didn't change to accomodate him, but his character brought so much more to the team. You got to see more of Teal'c being a mentor to him, helping the other 'alien' adjust to Earth, you got to see Sam be like a big sister to him, and teasing him. You got to see Jack adjust to having him around, the person he blamed for Daniel's death and over come his first bad impression/feelings for him.

That's how new characters should be introduced, with care and forthought. But then again TPTB were a bit different back then *sigh*

[ReganX]

I really don't understand your anger is the the only Father Daughter relationship allowed in SG-1 Sam & Jacob in your world. I liked Lam I liked her edginess she was interesting.

Can you truly not understand the problems with having Landry's daughter as CMO?

As CMO, Lam reported directly to Landry. He would be the one evaluating her performance. What if one of the other characters had cause to complain about Lam's competence or professionalism? Don't you think that it would put them in a very awkward position if they were obliged to either voice their concerns to Lam's father or go over their commanding officer's head? At the same time, as CMO, Lam could overrule anybody's authority on medical grounds. Her having a personal relationship with the base commander is something that could potentially compromise her judgement in that regard.

Remove the family tie, and you remove this problem. If Lam's "edginess" appealed to you, I'm sure that they'd be able to include that even if she didn't share DNA with Landry.

Janet didn't need to be Hammond's third cousin, let alone his daughter, for Teryl Rothery and the writers to be able to create a well-developed, wonderfully human character who had a place in the story. If the family tie was the only way the writers could come up with to give Lam a more prominent role, then I think that they needed to rethink the value of including her character at all. If her role as CMO couldn't make her a sufficiently interesting character without the "Landry's daughter" angle, they should have stuck with Doctor Brightman.

As for Sam and Jacob, the comparison would be a valid one if Jacob had been base commander while Sam was a member of SG-1, and the situation would be just as problematic in terms of conflicts of interest.

[poundpuppy29]

ok first of all I like Sam/AT always have I may love Daniel/MS I am not a Sam hater let's get that straight. I don't have any issues with Sam she was a great role model and AT is a great actress.

I don't think Cam was a bad character most of you do and your main reason for resenting Cam/BB was he was made the leader SG-1. You claim that he was poorly written I disagree. I don't think you would've accepted anyone unless he was sub servant to Sam and that is where the issue is. Jack was not sub servant to Sam so why should Cam be? It doesn't matter that Sam had more gate experience they were bringing in new lead for a show to replace the lead that left that is all. Sam, Daniel & Teal'c were all supporting characters not leads. They got more attention in season 7 & 8 because the lead only worked 3 days a week. The new lead worked all week thus no need to work around the lead.

I am glad someone brought up Jonas and how he was written because as I was watching the DVDs I thought Jonas was written badly I wish they would've just picked direction with Jonas and stuck with it he was all over the place and it drove me crazy. You may say because I am Daniel fan I am prejudiced that may be but let me add I didn't discover the franchise until 2006 and when I watched the DVDs I knew full well Daniel was going to be back and the writing of Jonas still annoyed me and I have watched season 6 a few times already every time the writing annoyed me the whole season is my least favorite. I had no problem with CN it wasn't his fault Daniel wasn't there.

I would like to bring up season 4 & 5 again and how Daniel was written when I was watching the DVDS I noticed a difference not as much in season 4 than in season 5 but there was a shift. I love the first 3 seasons and I noticed Jonathan Glassner left after season 3 and prior to the interview with him on this site I thought that he was on the losing end of a power struggle see what fandom does to people makes us conspiracy theorist but I was wrong he left for personal reasons that had to do with family if I am remembering correctly he didn't want to have his family in Canada because of their health care.

[NowIWillDestroyAbydos]

Wow, this thread suddenly came back to life..

I know right. I looked at my subscribed threads and I noticed this thread (that was created by me) and thought I never created a thread like this. Then I read the original title, I vaguely remember I created this thread. Move along

[KayLyne]

I guess I feel the need to butt into this conversation as a newbie to the thread/discussion.

I don't think Cam was a bad character most of you do and your main reason for resenting Cam/BB was he was made the leader SG-1.

It seems that you're not getting the point that most others are making here.

I don't really see anyone specifically stating that a resentment for Cameron Mitchell comes because he was leader of SG-1. I see comments regarding how his lack of experience - both as a 'gate traveler' and non-ground support soldier - should have been grounds for having him as more of a "newbie in training" and working as more of a 'support' position on an SG team.

You claim that he was poorly written I disagree.

Which begs the question - how is having a (admittedly superior) Air Force Pilot, but with not a single experience in going through the stargate or even stepping foot on an alien world, become leader of the premiere/elite team of explorers (in which all other team members of said team have many years of experience) just because the rest of the programs "owes him" because his fighter jet (F302) got shot down (and left him badly injured) while the original SG1 team was in the middle of a frantic mission to save Earth? If they'd made Cam's backstory as that of a trained military soldier who had at least seen the gate before beginning his command of SG1, and maybe they could have said he had been on a previous SG team and at least had set foot on an alien world before taking command, before taking his assignment to fly the F302 over Antarctica -- that would had been a much more believable introduction to the character.

I would compare the introduction of Cam Mitchell onto SG1 with CSI bringing in Ray Langston as a newbie CSI a few years ago, and immediately his character was going to crime scenes on his own with no supervision - even though he was a rookie with no previous CSI experience.

I don't think you would've accepted anyone unless he was sub servant to Sam and that is where the issue is.

From the comments that I see here, I don't see anyone with the real issue of Sam being subservient.

Jack was not sub servant to Sam so why should Cam be?

Forgive me, but that had me totally laughing out loud at the absurdity of that statement.

First of all, Jack was DEFINITELY subservient to Sam on many, many occasions - especially when it included science, alien technology, or many of the other things that Jack did not understand. There were many, many times that Jack deferred to Sam's opinion on what to do. Yes, he had the final say in decisions, but he usually trusted the rest of his team's opinions to be right.

Secondly, the "so why should Cam?" part: See the previous statement. Especially on things Cam didn't understand - either about the program or about various aliens - he should have deferred to opinions from either Sam, Daniel or Teal'c (people who have actually been in those types of situations before).

It doesn't matter that Sam had more gate experience they were bringing in new lead for a show to replace the lead that left that is all. Sam, Daniel & Teal'c were all supporting characters not leads.

Yes, that statement is correct - and it's exactly why your previous statement arguing the fact that Cam's backstory was 'perfect' was extremely flawed as well. They were bringing in a new lead - so why didn't they give the new character a backstory that fit with how they were trying to incorporate him?

[hedwig]

I don't think Cam was a bad character most of you do and your main reason for resenting Cam/BB was he was made the leader SG-1.

Once again, you don't seem to get that him being leader isn't the point. It is how he became the leader, and nothing else. That is what was poorly written. Though apparently you don't mind watching poorly written stories. You're certainly entitled to enjoy poorly written material, just as a lot of us feel the material was poorly written. We're all entitled to our opinions.

I don't think you would've accepted anyone unless he was sub servant to Sam and that is where the issue is. Jack was not sub servant to Sam so why should Cam be?

Well, of course, Jack would never be subservient to Sam. He outranks her. General does outrank Lt. Colonel, after all. I can't even figure out what the point of that observaton is; it has nothing to do with this discussion. With Cam and Sam, neither one is subservient to the other, because they're both the same rank.

It doesn't matter that Sam had more gate experience. They were bringing in new lead for a show to replace the lead that left. That is all. Sam, Daniel & Teal'c were all supporting characters, not leads. They got more attention in season 7 & 8 because the lead only worked 3 days a week. The new lead worked all week thus no need to work around the lead.

I'm sorry, but I can't even see that this is something to bring up in a discussion. It has no bearing on it. It absolutely matters that Sam has more gate experience than Cam. Even Jack refused to let anyone with no gate experience to be part of an SG team, or is that why you think he was a poor CO of the SGC?

And I really don't see how the number of days worked during the week has anything at all to do with this discussion. It isn't even relevant.

I am glad someone brought up Jonas and how he was written because as I was watching the DVDs I thought Jonas was written badly I wish they would've just picked direction with Jonas and stuck with it he was all over the place and it drove me crazy. You may say because I am Daniel fan I am prejudiced that may be but let me add I didn't discover the franchise until 2006 and when I watched the DVDs I knew full well Daniel was going to be back and the writing of Jonas still annoyed me and I have watched season 6 a few times already every time the writing annoyed me the whole season is my least favorite. I had no problem with CN it wasn't his fault Daniel wasn't there.

You say he was poorly written. Personally, I think he was very well written and a breath of fresh air. We'll just have to do the agree to disagree thing since we're not going to agree on this (or much of anything else from the looks of it).

I would like to bring up season 4 & 5 again and how Daniel was written. when I was watching the DVDS I noticed a difference - not as much in season 4 than in season 5 - but there was a shift. I love the first 3 seasons and I noticed Jonathan Glassner left after season 3 and prior to the interview with him on this site I thought that he was on the losing end of a power struggle. see what fandom does to people? makes us conspiracy theorists. but I was wrong. he left for personal reasons that had to do with family if I am remembering correctly. he didn't want to have his family in Canada because of their health care.

Jonathan Glassner has nothing to do with this discussion. Nothing about your description of his leaving has anything to do with this discussion. I'm aware of why he left the show.

And I'm puzzled about the intent of your last paragraph is. It certainly doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. Are you trying to make some sort of statement about how JG's departure had an effect on the show? Because I don't see it having anything to do with Season 10.

This has become nothing much more than a circular argument/discussion. You keep repeating your same arguments over and over again, while others try to explain their points of view. And you just keep dismissing them, and then bringing up your same argument yet again.

[ReganX]

If they'd made Cam's backstory as that of a trained military soldier who had at least seen the gate before beginning his command of SG1, and maybe they could have said he had been on a previous SG team and at least had set foot on an alien world before taking command, before taking his assignment to fly the X302 over Antarctica -- that would had been a much more believable introduction to the character.

Alternatively, they could have kept his backstory unchanged and had his appointment of SG-1 as a PR move, in anticipation that the Stargate Program would become public in the not too distant future, now that the galaxy was a more peaceful place. Even the CMOH could play into that, with the intention of Mitchell being a poster boy for the Stargate Program, built up as a hero so that he could appeal to people who might be angry that the secret was kept so long.

[suse]

I know right. I looked at my subscribed threads and I noticed this thread (that was created by me) and thought I never created a thread like this. Then I read the original title, I vaguely remember I created this thread. Move along

I'm assuming you meant "Moving along' and were not tell us to move along.

[Crazedwraith]

Ok, I don't want to overwhelm poundpuppy with responses but hell, I'm going to reply

I don't think Cam was a bad character most of you do and your main reason for resenting Cam/BB was he was made the leader SG-1. You claim that he was poorly written I disagree.

That's great. Why? We can't have a discussion unless you explain your reasoning.

I don't think you would've accepted anyone unless he was sub servant to Sam and that is where the issue is. Jack was not sub servant to Sam so why should Cam be? It doesn't matter that Sam had more gate experience they were bringing in new lead for a show to replace the lead that left that is all. Sam, Daniel & Teal'c were all supporting characters not leads. They got more attention in season 7 & 8 because the lead only worked 3 days a week. The new lead worked all week thus no need to work around the lead.

Now lots of people have weighed in on this issue in this thread and it may be getting slightly confusing because everyone's opinion is slightly different. Here are some issues that having being raised.

1)Yes, a lot of people feel that Sam should have remained in command of SG-1. AT's maternity leave could have been handled differently. Then she could have returned to command. And the show would have remained the more ensemble cast style it had become with RDA's ever reducing screen time.
2) OK. So TPTB didn't do that.They wanted to bring in a new leading man. This I think has disappointed some people because it shows a certain lack of originality and an unwillingness to take risks or shake up the format. SG-1 is popular and could easily have decided to mix things up if they wanted to. Good shows can do this to remain fresh. (Angel is an example as is changed formats and premises quite often over its 5 year run. [with mixed results])
3) Even if you accept they wanted a traditional leading man, adding Ben Browder as Cameron was poorly handled. Retconning him as an established friend of SG-1 with a heroic background linked to episodes we've seen before is writing that is akin to bad fanfiction. Writing him as inexperienced at ground operations and gate travel means that's hard to accept him becoming leader of the premier exploration team. The reasons given that SG-1 and Jack owe him and gave him any appointment he wanted is again akin to fanfiction levels of writing. (bad fanfiction in fact)

But importantly, these reasons are separate and distinct from the first ones involving Sam. Even if you don't mind the concept of someone new coming in to command SG-1 you can dislike Mitchell for them.

Ideally, the new leader of the team should have had a believable commanding presence as a leader. And have enough rank and experience for us to think he merited the position. Although, given they didn't know they were going to have a 9th season or need a new leading man for it, it would have been best if the character had been established before hand. Mitchell would have been less jarring if we'd seen him in Lost City for example.

This, I think, has been mentioned before but bares repeating. The absolute best thing they could have done for the start of season 9 would be to ask Adam Baldwin to play Dave Dixon as a main character. The character has the rank to command Carter and was pre-established. As a family man he was very distinct from O'Neill and yet was still quite fun in Heroes. Plus Baldwin's a great actor and was in Firefly which earns him serious geek credits there. Add in a scene where he apologies to Carter on her return to the team that he had to take it over and a bit of awkwardness before the new dynamic settles down and I think people would have accepted it a lot more than Cameron.

Oh course I think looking back that Browder wasn't really a leading man in the traditional sense for seasons 9 and 10 which often felt more like the Daniel and Vala show than Mitchell's.

I am glad someone brought up Jonas and how he was written because as I was watching the DVDs I thought Jonas was written badly I wish they would've just picked direction with Jonas and stuck with it he was all over the place and it drove me crazy. You may say because I am Daniel fan I am prejudiced that may be but let me add I didn't discover the franchise until 2006 and when I watched the DVDs I knew full well Daniel was going to be back and the writing of Jonas still annoyed me and I have watched season 6 a few times already every time the writing annoyed me the whole season is my least favorite. I had no problem with CN it wasn't his fault Daniel wasn't there.

Would you stop leaping to conclusions about why we think you hold the opinions you do? And in fact why we hold the opinions we do. It's getting a bit silly.

As to Jonas, in what way to you think he was all over the place? I though he was quite consistently portrayed with a need to redeem himself and prove himself useful to the team. As seen from Redemption all the way through Prophecy where he's so desperate to be useful it almost kills him.

[Skydiver]

Dixon would have rocked. Wasn't season 9 about the same time as firefly?? I want to think that was one issue.

What I would have loved, since the intro of SG13, would be to prepare for SG1 actors to want to have time off...or need time off (as in the show budget would only allow for a certain number of episodes rather than all 20).

Had they been able to plan and think ahead, SG13 could have done more, even eventually gotten to have their own episode. Groom and develop them as a replacement team and eventually grow the show from less 'about one team' and more about the SGC and have a couple of teams that could carry an episode on their own, allowing the main cast time off.

[Crazedwraith]

Dixon would have rocked. Wasn't season 9 about the same time as firefly?? I want to think that was one issue.

Firefly was made 2002 according to wiki. Season 9 was 2005. And Chuck didn't start till 2007.

[LT. COL. John Sheppard]

Dixon would have rocked. Wasn't season 9 about the same time as firefly?? I want to think that was one issue.

What I would have loved, since the intro of SG13, would be to prepare for SG1 actors to want to have time off...or need time off (as in the show budget would only allow for a certain number of episodes rather than all 20).

Had they been able to plan and think ahead, SG13 could have done more, even eventually gotten to have their own episode. Groom and develop them as a replacement team and eventually grow the show from less 'about one team' and more about the SGC and have a couple of teams that could carry an episode on their own, allowing the main cast time off.

they did that once i think

[fems]

I don't think Cam was a bad character most of you do and your main reason for resenting Cam/BB was he was made the leader SG-1.

Personally, I think you either fail to understand people feel the way they do about Cameron Mitchell independent of their opinion of Ben Browder or are incapable of distinguishing between the character and the actors who play them yourself. Show me one person here who's said they resent BB for anything? Most of us are arguing why we feel Mitchell was a badly written/introduced character and many have said it was TPTB's fault and not BB.

You claim that he was poorly written I disagree.

I'm still waiting for any arguments from you to prove he - or more specifically his background and reckless behavior - wasn't poorly written, other than everyone resenting him because of RDA leaving/Sam being snubbed of course.

I don't think you would've accepted anyone unless he was sub servant to Sam and that is where the issue is. Jack was not sub servant to Sam so why should Cam be?

A good leader/commander knows when to defer to others, no matter their standing or rank and call upon their specialty. Jack did so on many occasions; inquiring a scientific/technological solution from Sam, having Daniel deal with the natives/cultures/languages and relying on Teal'c for advice on the Goa'uld/Jaffa/familiar races for their ways. In the end, he always made sure he was well-informed and based his decisions on the information he'd been provided with by others.

Jack himself contributed with his experience of many black/special operations and had quite the strategic mind, a quality he probably shared with Teal'c and helped form in Sam.

What was Mitchell's specialty? Oh yeah, being a pilot in the Air Force and having some experience with the F302s. The same F302 Sam had helped develop from retro-engineering alien spacecrafts Teal'c could fly, like Jack and Sam could also fly the F302s (and other spaceships). Mitchell was apparently also a squadron leader, which to me pales in comparison to the command experience Jack, Teal'c and Sam have had either as pilots or ground combat (be that on Eart, in service of Apophis or during their time at the SGC).

Personally, I would prefer sending a commander and his team in the field knowing they were all qualified, could watch each other's six and somewhat knew what to expect. Instead, the original SG-1 had to basically babysit their commander, couldn't rely on him having their six and yet were expected to follow his orders based on... what? All the movies he likes to refer to? It certainly wasn't on experience and he hardly ever deferred to the others' specialties/knowledge/experience. More often than not he ended up endangering the lives of his teammates, of those technically under his command. Not the best example for the flagship of Earth's first line of defense...

Besides, I thought BB's character wasn't supposed to be a replacement of RDA's? Then why do (faultily) compare Jack and Cameron here?

It doesn't matter that Sam had more gate experience they were bringing in new lead for a show to replace the lead that left that is all. Sam, Daniel & Teal'c were all supporting characters not leads. They got more attention in season 7 & 8 because the lead only worked 3 days a week. The new lead worked all week thus no need to work around the lead.

That has absolutely no bearing on how well or poorly new characters were written/developed! Other ideas about Mitchell's introduction have been suggested to make his character more credible but you just dismiss all of them because BB was supposed to be the new male lead?

I had no problem with CN it wasn't his fault Daniel wasn't there.

Here you seem to be able to distinguish between the Jonas Quinn character and his actor, Corin Nemec yet you compare CN to Daniel Jackson? You do realize that's a real life person versus a fictional character, right? MS is not Daniel Jackson, just like BB is not Cameron Mitchell.

I shall reiterate what I've said before: we are talking about the poor concept of Cameron Mitchell and many have stated they feel TPTB also failed BB (and CB) with their bad writing of his (and her) character.

For me my problems with Mitchell and Vala have absolutely nothing to do with BB and CB. As a matter of fact, I quite enjoyed Farscape and their characters on that show, albeit not as much as I like Stargate SG-1 (well, the first eight seasons, anyway).