S10: Critique & Contemplation

[hedwig]

I just think you guys wouldn't accept anybody unless he was sub servant to Sam. I really think no one they brought in would please you.

Not true. If the producers had written a background far better for Mitchell to become leader, I would have been fine with it; it was done very sloppily and without regard for the previous 8 years of the show. I simply feel that Sam was tremendously slighted when they brought in a new character or two and shoved her into the background (along with Teal'c, I might add).

In fact, it has been speculated that the producers would have liked to have Amanda move on to Atlantis, thereby opening the way for what would amount to a whole new show (even though Teal'c would still have been around), and at which time who lead SG1 would have been a non-issue. Regardless, I'm of the opinion they were very disrespectful to her.

In another thread, I pointed out that in the episode "The Scourge", during the first 5 minutes of the show, Sam was merely present with no dialog at all. While all the guys, including Landry, got all the dialog. That's pretty disrespectful of someone who helped make that show what it was.

[poundpuppy29]

it's not all about Sam the show was not called SG Sam Carter it was SG-1. I don't think she was slighted at all. Teal'c pretty much got the same attention as he did all previous seasons IMHO season 8 was good to him but it was same the rest of the seasons he always got a few episodes devoted to him

[hedwig]

it's not all about Sam the show was not called SG Sam Carter it was SG-1. I don't think she was slighted at all. Teal'c pretty much got the same attention as he did all previous seasons IMHO season 8 was good to him but it was same the rest of the seasons he always got a few episodes devoted to him

I think you're grasping at straws here to find something to object to.

Nobody ever even once suggested the show was about Sam Carter or that it was called "SG Sam Carter". That's ridiculous to think so. It's just as ridiculous to think the show was about Jack O'Neill/Daniel Jackson (even though MS seems to feel it was - per his own words in one of his interviews). It never was. That was the original movie. SG1 was about a team of four people; not one person with three back-up players, regardless of what's been said by some of the cast. I never would have watched the show if it had been about just Jack and Daniel.

And when RDA left, then, of course, there had to be some "new blood" injected into the show. Even so, the "new blood" AND Daniel Jackson got the biggest share of the attention, while Sam and Teal'c were shoved into the background (which I'm sure you'll disagree with) - both of those actors have even commented on that fact. Had Amanda actually been removed from the show, I would have stopped watching; I simply feel she adds more to the show than it would have been without her.

[poundpuppy29]

I will give you that Daniel was more connected to the Ori storyline than Sam was but Teal'c got the same attention as he always got. Sam is your favorite I get that Daniel is mine. I just don't see how Cam was wrong for the job. Cam & Vala were going to get more attention because they were new and they needed time to tell their story. Daniel was put aside during seasons 4 and 5 was that fair? Season 8 wasn't that great for Daniel either. I will pick this up tomorrow. I don't have internet at home.

[fems]

I would have been fine with someone like Reynolds, Dixon or Ferretti taking over if it hadn't been for Sam's promotion to Lt Col in season 8. It is simply ridiculous to have a Lt Col be second-in-command of a team, although admittedly it's even worse to have two lieutenant colonels share said command. Considering Sam is, next to Jack the best qualified soldier and has the most off-world experience it would only be natural for her to resume command.

What really bothers me though is the introduction of Mitchell. Back when season nine premiered in my country there really wasn't much of anything regarding spoilers (all of the major changes in SG-1 were complete surprises for me and others like me) so I was stupefied and wondering what the hell had happened since the last episode a few months before! I even thought I had the wrong show at first! And it only became more ridiculous the longer I watched, with everyone in the control room talking about Mitchell as if he was some kind of legend even though I'd never even heard his name before! Not to mention that those guys have seen a hell of a lot more courageous/heroic things at the SGC over the years, considering the foothold situations etc they were probably involved in a lot of them. Still, they were mightily impressed by this guy who'd crashed his expensive F302, killing his copilot and nearly disabling himself for life.

Then, when everything was finally explained Daniel, of all people at the SGC, says he knows they (SG-1, I assume) owe Mitchell for what he did. Eh, excuse me? Who saved this planet over and over again? Who actually risked his sanity and his life by downloading the Ancient Repository in his mind, using the chair in the outpost etc... who has died over and over again throughout the years and chose to descend (after being an ascended being for about a year) because he felt he could help more (and did) as a normal human being, working with his friends? Who was instrumental in freeing the Jaffa so they could start their own nation. Who killed all those Goa'uld? Who was responsible for destroying the Replicators? Who saved the Asgard? Who got Earth to become a protected planet? I could go on, but I think you catch my drift...

It was just preposterous and mind blowingly ridiculous.

I also think the season premiere suffered from the introduction of too many new characters at once. First we find out Jack's gone, Sam's been transferred, Teal'c is on Dakara and this new Mitchell fellow wants to be on SG-1 (which totally reminded me of that Russian guy in Lockdown only the outcome was less, eh, favorable). Okay, that's all very shocking but if that flyboy's introduction had been handled better and far less ridiculous then it could have worked.

But then there's this other guy, the new base commander. Landry is his name and apparently he's this old pal of Jack's and perfect for the job, even though he has absolutely no experience whatsoever with the SGC. But apparently that's not an issue anymore since this season, so I don't know why I even bother to mention it. Anyway, I'm sure Jack had probably suffered temporary amnesia or something back in New Order from the stasis thing when he couldn't think of anyone experienced or good enough to take command of SGC, even though he didn't really want it himself. Luckily for us, he was able to recall his old pal Hank by the time Hammond wanted to retire from HWS and Jack had to go there. Ah good thing Jack had that year of command to remember that good and very capable friend of his!

Then, apparently the SGC was also in need of a new CMO. Obviously Doctor Brightman wasn't good enough anymore, or maybe she was transferred (because who wouldn't want to leave such an amazing job, right?). Or maybe, you know with her being a woman and all, she wanted - shock horror - a baby and had to go on maternity leave! Well, someone should have probably told her that women don't get their jobs back when they go on maternity leave at the SGC! How dare they get pregnant and get temporarily reassigned! Still, they took a chance and got another female CMO, Lam. Because, you know, women are that much better doctors. No way that Warner could have ever become the CMO. Ha, that old guy? No siree, only young, attractive women get the gig - until they get killed/written off, of course. Anyway, so now we have this new gal, Carolyn Lam, from the CDC who has this mysterious thing going on with Landry. Hmm, well I'm sure we were all supposed to think they'd had a thing way back when (although not too long ago because she's far too young, not that her age stopped her from becoming an accomplished CMO of course) but it was just ridiculous. Like anyone from her caliber would date a guy like Landry... After a while we find out she's actually his daughter! What, I'm sure no one saw that coming... A very juvenile plot twist I'd roll my eyes at if it was in a fanfic. Of course, that also gives her this sense of entitlement that she can just go against him whenever she feels like it, disrespecting him and dissing him because Daddy wasn't around much when she was growing up. Boohoo. Grow up woman and act your age...

Oh and of course, there was Vala. The oversexed alien spacebabe, whose mind was also stuck somewhere in her teenage years (hey, maybe she and Lam could be BFFs). TPTB must have been oh so pleased to finally have a recurring (and later on regular) female character they could undress in skimpy outfits and act like the team/base slut. All willingly of course. Gosh, and it only took them nine years to get her! If only Amanda Tapping had been more cooperative in the beginning, but noooooo she just had to refuse wearing things like that and insisted on dressing the same like the guys because she was a strong military woman. Well, they didn't make that mistake again! Nope, Vala would be excellent because she's not military and already showed what a tremendously variable IQ and fabulous clothing style she has in Prometheus Unbound. Of course, later on Vala could do basically anything; translate obscure dialects and languages, just like Daniel. She could kick ass, get alien technology to work, was capable at picking locks and she was sexy! She was also an alien, obviously. So, really, one must wonder what Daniel, Sam and Teal'c were still doing on SG-1. Oh and she could also fly anything, eh... that could fly, so she wouldn't need Mitchell the amazing F302 pilot either! Maybe they should have renamed it SG-Vala?

[hedwig]

I will give you that Daniel was more connected to the Ori storyline than Sam was but Teal'c got the same attention as he always got. Sam is your favorite I get that Daniel is mine. I just don't see how Cam was wrong for the job. Cam & Vala were going to get more attention because they were new and they needed time to tell their story. Daniel was put aside during seasons 4 and 5 was that fair? Season 8 wasn't that great for Daniel either. I will pick this up tomorrow. I don't have internet at home.

Daniel was certainly not put aside in S4&5. If I recall correctly, the following featured him more than the others:
The Other Side
Upgrades (he got as much attention as anyone else)
The First Ones (mostly about him)
Scorched Earth (mostly about him)
The Curse (mostly about him)
Absolute Power (mostly about him)

By my counting, each member of the team got 3-4 episodes per season that focussed more on them than the others. There are Daniel's four, plus a couple more.

In Season 5, Beast of Burden (Daniel/Jack), Summit/LastStand, Menace and Meridian were focussed more on him than on the others. Red Sky focussed a lot on Daniel and his usual hissy fit over how things should be. He wasn't even in Prodigy. Sam got about 3 episodes focussed more on her. Teal'c got two episodes about him; the 3d one doesn't count since he wasn't even in it for more than 5 minutes. The rest of the episodes pretty much were team oriented.

So I'm thinking your comment about lack of Daniel eps in S4&5 is invalid.

[ReganX]

I agree that season 8 was mishandled but I think putting Sam command of SG-1 was a mistake because that was not her role on the team in the first place if Sam was just a military character I would feel differently but she is a scientist and all through out the series what her passion was her science and her projects that's why I feel area 51 was a natural progression for the character and she was in command there that is a big deal for women in world of Science believe me as someone who has family in the world of science female family it is a huge deal. I realize it is not as sexy as SG-1 commander but it shouldn't be down played like you say.

I see no reason why her scientific expertise should be used as a reason to deny her command. As excuses go, it's one of the poorer ones.

As you say, she isn't just a military character but neither is she just a scientist. She has always balanced her work as a member of SG-1 with her scientific projects, and has made it very clear that she enjoys her job. Can you furnish examples from the first eight seasons of her saying that she'd rather leave SG-1 to concentrate exclusively on R&D? When she was removed from SG-1 in order to focus exclusively on one of her projects in Chain Reaction, she was not happy, just as Daniel wasn't happy to be removed from SG-1 in favour of a desk job. In contrast, she was excited about her first command, and about her promotions, and seemed pleased to be put in command of SG-1.

As for her assignment to Area 51, there can be no merit to that point since her weeks-long command there was nothing more than a plot device designed to get her away from SG-1 long enough to install Mitchell as leader.

[Snowman37]

So I'm thinking your comment about lack of Daniel eps in S4&5 is invalid.

It is valid, it's why Michael Shanks left the show for a year. He only agreed to return when the producers agreed to give his character more focus, akin to the early seasons. That's why Jackson shifted away from archaeology towards being the resident expert on the Ancients and the Ascended.

it's not all about Sam the show was not called SG Sam Carter it was SG-1. I don't think she was slighted at all. Teal'c pretty much got the same attention as he did all previous seasons IMHO season 8 was good to him but it was same the rest of the seasons he always got a few episodes devoted to him

At least Teal'c wasn't promoted and then demoted.

[ReganX]

It is valid, it's why Michael Shanks left the show for a year. He only agreed to return when the producers agreed to give his character more focus, akin to the early seasons. That's why Jackson shifted away from archaeology towards being the resident expert on the Ancients and the Ascended.

All that proves is that Michael Shanks thought that he deserved for his character to have more focus. It doesn't prove that Daniel was in any way neglected.

As hedwig's list proves, it's not like Daniel was left to stand silently in the background for Seasons Four and Five. Sha're's death meant that his original reason for being so adamant to join SG-1 was gone, and for practical reasons, he couldn't have his movie role as a translator every time they visited a new planet, but they adapted and still had focus on him.

[Crazedwraith]

Oh and of course, there was Vala. The oversexed alien spacebabe, whose mind was also stuck somewhere in her teenage years (hey, maybe she and Lam could be BFFs). TPTB must have been oh so pleased to finally have a recurring (and later on regular) female character they could undress in skimpy outfits and act like the team/base slut. All willingly of course. Gosh, and it only took them nine years to get her! If only Amanda Tapping had been more cooperative in the beginning, but noooooo she just had to refuse wearing things like that and insisted on dressing the same like the guys because she was a strong military woman. Well, they didn't make that mistake again

Wuh? This bit is interesting. Is anyone on the record saying tptb wanted carter to wear skimpier outfits and were foiled by Tapping? It's the first time I've heard something like that and I'd find it hard to believe. Especially in early days of SG-1, I wouldn't think she had that much pull with them.

I know early season 4 they had a bit of a phase with the fan service. (hello anise) but the commentaries for those episodes on the dvd seem to indicate they realised this was a mistake.

As for her assignment to Area 51, there can be no merit to that point since her weeks-long command there was nothing more than a plot device designed to get her away from SG-1 long enough to install Mitchell as leader.

I think you've got that backwards. It was a plot device to accommodate Tapping's Maternity leave.

And the 'Mitchel getting the band back together' plot was probably conceived because they needed to write Tapping out so having to that they decided to have the entire team split up.

I really wonder how different S9 and Mitchell might of been without AT being off those first few episodes.

[Snowman37]

I think getting the band back together had more to do with the defeat of the Goa'uld and Replicators more than anything else. There was no reason for Carter, Daniel, and Teal'c to stick around until the Ori Priors started gating in.

[ReganX]

I think you've got that backwards. It was a plot device to accommodate Tapping's Maternity leave.

And the 'Mitchel getting the band back together' plot was probably conceived because they needed to write Tapping out so having to that they decided to have the entire team split up.

Given that there were quite a few options that would have allowed them to accommodate Amanda's maternity leave without removing Sam from command of SG-1 - broken leg, the flu, temporary assignment - her maternity leave was, at most, an excuse to remove her character from command, not the reason for it. Unless there is reason to believe that TPTB were incapable of counting, and therefore couldn't estimate her likely return date, there's no reason to believe that they couldn't come up with a reason for her character to be absent for the couple of weeks that the first five episodes of Season Nine covered without removing her from command of SG-1.

Sam is the character that I would have said was most likely to want to stay on SG-1 once the Goa'uld and Replicators were defeated, since the Stargate Program would be able to focus on exploration.

[Snowman37]

As I've said, I wouldn't have minded Mitchell taking the reigns from Carter if he'd had a different back story. Why couldn't he have simply been transfered to SG-1 from another SG team? Yeah, there's the issue of the viewers having never seen him before. However, it's not like the show never introduced an SGC character whom the team knew but the viewer had never heard of before.

[hedwig]

Wuh? This bit is interesting. Is anyone on the record saying tptb wanted carter to wear skimpier outfits and were foiled by Tapping? It's the first time I've heard something like that and I'd find it hard to believe. Especially in early days of SG-1, I wouldn't think she had that much pull with them.

I know early season 4 they had a bit of a phase with the fan service. (hello anise) but the commentaries for those episodes on the dvd seem to indicate they realised this was a mistake.

Actually, Amanda was quite adamant about NOT wearing skimpy clothing at any time during the run of SG1 (not that that worked entirely in S9&10, or S8 with the sleeveless black shirts). She refused to play a bubbleheaded blonde (so to speak) and as much as told the producers that if that's what they wanted her to do, they could look for another actress to play the part. Luckily (IMO), they kept her and wrote her in a more accurate manner (also IMO).

[Snowman37]

Source? I always assumed they simply had a more mature production team back in the day. It seemed like when RDA left the show (he doubled as an executive producer), the quality of the show dipped such as Mitchell's back story, the addition of Vala, and so on. Granted, I like Vala, but a she doesn't seem to be as well received as I would have expected.