S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Mandysg1]

frat house

think the 'humor' of a farting contest

I thought that was just behind the scenes...not on the screen

[Petra]

Hehe, I'm baaack!!! Just for a minute though, don't worry

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this - if not, sorry Mods, do your job - but I just listened today to Season 9 Podcast and I need to vent!

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the podcasts and even when (often) I don't agree, Darren and David have interesting points and way of looking at things, but now I'm, I don't know, bewildered? Slightly annoyed? I get that they are both fans of the last 2 seasons, good for them, but I was seriously expecting them to at least address some of the critique season 9 got. Instead there was..nothing. Apart from how great the show apparently was.

What annoys me the most are 2 things:

1) they keep evaluating seasons by RDA's presence, which is kinda what has been discussed here on this thread lately. Seasons 6-8 were bad because everyone had to work around RDA's schedule and season 9 was great because that problem disappeared really? Maybe I'm the only one, but I thought that problems with Rick's availability were evident only in season 7 and dealt with just fine in seasons 6&8 (creatively I mean, explaining Jack's absences)

2) they keep comparing Jonas and Cam's introductions - in Cam's favour. This is something I just can't agree with. I felt it was very realistic and well done, the way the team didn't accept Jonas right away while singing praisies of Mitchell only made me sick. I have no idea how D&D - with all the respect due to them, because they do a great job - can say Mitchell's intro was better and more successful.

Ultimately the only people I know who had problems with Jonas/hated his introduction were (some) rabid Daniel fans. Other fans were/are either indifferent or they liked Jonas. Mitchell on the other hand did an amazing job of alienating/putting off majority of fans from different sections of the fandom for a number of different reasons. And yet this isn't a first podcast when I hear what a great job TPTB did with Cam.

It's just..annoying, yep. Given that the last 2 seasons are so controversial and both guys are fans of them, I think it would be more fair and interesting to get on the Podcast a third party who would represent out POV, or at least point out what we have problems with, much like they did on the Ship Podcast...

Is anyone else frustrated by it, or am I the only one?

[Skydiver]

I can't say i'm frustrated. But my opinion is definitely different from theirs

I do think in depth discussion of the pod cast needs to be in the pod cast thread though.

[Petra]

I can't say i'm frustrated. But my opinion is definitely different from theirs

I do think in depth discussion of the pod cast needs to be in the pod cast thread though.

I'm definitely gonna post there I just needed to vent first, to come down and then make my case in an appropriate, respectful manner Can I volunteer you for season 10 podcast though?

[Skydiver]

i doubt they want my opinion

[Alan]

Hehe, I'm baaack!!! Just for a minute though, don't worry

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this - if not, sorry Mods, do your job - but I just listened today to Season 9 Podcast and I need to vent!

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the podcasts and even when (often) I don't agree, Darren and David have interesting points and way of looking at things, but now I'm, I don't know, bewildered? Slightly annoyed? I get that they are both fans of the last 2 seasons, good for them, but I was seriously expecting them to at least address some of the critique season 9 got. Instead there was..nothing. Apart from how great the show apparently was.

What annoys me the most are 2 things:

1) they keep evaluating seasons by RDA's presence, which is kinda what has been discussed here on this thread lately. Seasons 6-8 were bad because everyone had to work around RDA's schedule and season 9 was great because that problem disappeared really? Maybe I'm the only one, but I thought that problems with Rick's availability were evident only in season 7 and dealt with just fine in seasons 6&8 (creatively I mean, explaining Jack's absences)

2) they keep comparing Jonas and Cam's introductions - in Cam's favour. This is something I just can't agree with. I felt it was very realistic and well done, the way the team didn't accept Jonas right away while singing praisies of Mitchell only made me sick. I have no idea how D&D - with all the respect due to them, because they do a great job - can say Mitchell's intro was better and more successful.

Ultimately the only people I know who had problems with Jonas/hated his introduction were (some) rabid Daniel fans. Other fans were/are either indifferent or they liked Jonas. Mitchell on the other hand did an amazing job of alienating/putting off majority of fans from different sections of the fandom for a number of different reasons. And yet this isn't a first podcast when I hear what a great job TPTB did with Cam.

It's just..annoying, yep. Given that the last 2 seasons are so controversial and both guys are fans of them, I think it would be more fair and interesting to get on the Podcast a third party who would represent out POV, or at least point out what we have problems with, much like they did on the Ship Podcast...

Is anyone else frustrated by it, or am I the only one?

You are not alone. I totally agree with you on the podcast and share in your frustrations, bewilderment, and slight annoyance. I don't think I can really add anything else that you haven't already said.

[leiasky]

col aga - do you expect any podcast or interview done for or on this site would contain much negativity at ALL? Regardless what season they're talking about?

It's kinda like that conversation a few pages back when we were discussing those interviews that made us lose a bit of respect for their insensitive comments. Were they towing that studio line of 'everything's fun here now, come join us, you'll have fun too'? Hmm.

[EvenstarSRV]

I haven't listened to the podcast, but when comparing Mitchell's intro in S9 to Jonas's in S6, I think one's expectation of the show would greatly determine which was better or worse.

With S6, it seemed clear that the writers/producers were simply making another season of SG-1. The team was still mostly intact, the emotional center of the show was still focused on the original SG-1 members Jack, Sam, and Teal'c, and Jonas was simply added to this existing framework. I would say the same held true for S7, with Daniel replacing Jonas in the framework of the team.

But with S9, the writers/producers were obviously intent on making a new show, even though they were essentially forced by SciFi to call it SG-1. With the new show, the existing framework of the team was dismantled and built around Mitchell, with the emotional center of the show almost solely transferred to him. I would say essentially the same thing happened in S10, only this time the show's framework and emotional center was built around Vala. It's rather like taking a show like ER and turning it into a show like House, I think.

Now as a fan, if one was anticipating S9 to simply be another season of SG-1, then Mitchell's addition was probably quite jarring. But if one was prepared for or even looking forward to S9 being a new show, then Mitchell's intro perhaps makes more sense and could even be considered successful, because they did succeed in essentially making a new show.

Given their involvement with Gateworld, I'd imagine that Darren and David were most likely in the latter group, they were probably well aware that S9 was going to be like a new show and perhaps even looking forward to that. Speaking for myself as a viewer who came to the show in late S9, I had no idea that the writers had intended to remake the show on such a fundamental level in S9, I hadn't read anything except the episode airing times on GW. So the intense focus on Mitchell was very confusing compared to the S1-8 reruns I watched where the focus was mostly spread out between the team, and this same confusion continued in S10 with the almost singular focus on Vala.

[jckfan55]

At least with Jonas they wrote a story that led into his joining the team. There were complaints by Daniel fans I guess that Jonas' story overlapped w/ Daniel's big exit, but to me it made some sense to do it that way.

The intro of Mitchell came out of left field & the explanation (if you can call it that) was covered in what?--2 lines by Landry? Sam at R&D, Daniel & Teal'c gone. Move on.

[Skydiver]

well, the only reason jonas and daniel's stories overlapped is because MS decision to leave came in the last few weeks of filming, so Meridian was a story cobbled together at the last moment.

it was either intro Jonas in Meridian, or do it as a cold intro out of nowhere in the s6 premiere

Was it a good call? YMMV on that one, but they did what they could with the relatively speaking last moment cards they were dealt

[suse]

cam's name just shows that 'slightly naughty' tint that the boys at bridge made in the last couple of seasons

Yet strangely apropos in this case.

suse

[suse]

Now as a fan, if one was anticipating S9 to simply be another season of SG-1, then Mitchell's addition was probably quite jarring. But if one was prepared for or even looking forward to S9 being a new show, then Mitchell's intro perhaps makes more sense and could even be considered successful, because they did succeed in essentially making a new show.

But how in hades were we supposed to know it was a 'new' show? AFAIK, it was called SG-1. Whose leader was Sam.

Given their involvement with Gateworld, I'd imagine that Darren and David were most likely in the latter group, they were probably well aware that S9 was going to be like a new show and perhaps even looking forward to that. Speaking for myself as a viewer who came to the show in late S9, I had no idea that the writers had intended to remake the show on such a fundamental level in S9, I hadn't read anything except the episode airing times on GW. So the intense focus on Mitchell was very confusing compared to the S1-8 reruns I watched where the focus was mostly spread out between the team, and this same confusion continued in S10 with the almost singular focus on Vala.

Agreed. Though I find it a bit ironic, because i distinctly remember one of the Ds not being so impressed with S9. Though it was more with small comments made later than the outrage on the Anti-S9 thread.

suse

[EvenstarSRV]

well, the only reason jonas and daniel's stories overlapped is because MS decision to leave came in the last few weeks of filming, so Meridian was a story cobbled together at the last moment.

it was either intro Jonas in Meridian, or do it as a cold intro out of nowhere in the s6 premiere

Was it a good call? YMMV on that one, but they did what they could with the relatively speaking last moment cards they were dealt

Seeing Jonas in Meridian kinda reminded me of Keller being in First Strike, and I thought they did a decent job introducing that character to Atlantis. I think it helped that both characters had minor roles to play in those episodes, the emotional weight stayed with the regular characters. Though I'm guessing production issues may have prevented them from doing something similar with Mitchell in SG-1.

But how in hades were we supposed to know it was a 'new' show? AFAIK, it was called SG-1. Whose leader was Sam.

Having caught up on a lot of interviews done by writers/producers/cast re S9, they all seemed pretty consistent in calling it a new show, so if you were a fan who kept up with those interviews, then I think you'd perhaps be more prepared for the drastic changes. You may or may not have liked the changes, but you'd be aware of them.

But if you were a casual fan, then unless the general promos leading up to the premiere also advertised S9 as a new show, you'd probably just be confused by all the changes. I wasn't watching the show at all when S9 premiered, so I have no idea how they promoted it compared to other seasons.

[Skydiver]

yeah, if you weren't in the fandom, you had no idea that it was StargateCommand Season One. Just that there was a drastic recast and alteration in the flavor of the show.

In a lot of ways, they contradicted themselves. 'We don't write for the fandom, we write for the viewers', but then spent a lot of time dealing with the fandom.

What I always found interesting was the rumor i heard....after s9 ratings fell, skiffy/mgm called in a focus group - which is a 'random' group of people, called in to watch something and give their opinions on a project.

and, as it turns out, after TPTB mocked fans' opinions for months, most of what that focus group said was things along the line if 'what's with the chick with the pony tail?' 'congressional medal of honor? you gotta be kidding me' etc

they questioned Mitchell's qualifications. They questioned vala's intro....basically they mirrored many of the concerns that fans had been bringing up for months.

I'm not saying that the fans are always right. Or that everything they want done can be catered to. I'm not saying everything we say is 'right'.

However

When you have hundreds of fans expressing similar opinions, maybe it's worth looking into. Because some of the fan feelings can be mirrored in the feelings of the general public

[Frostfox]

yeah, if you weren't in the fandom, you had no idea that it was StargateCommand Season One. Just that there was a drastic recast and alteration in the flavor of the show.

In a lot of ways, they contradicted themselves. 'We don't write for the fandom, we write for the viewers', but then spent a lot of time dealing with the fandom.

What I always found interesting was the rumor i heard....after s9 ratings fell, skiffy/mgm called in a focus group - which is a 'random' group of people, called in to watch something and give their opinions on a project.

and, as it turns out, after TPTB mocked fans' opinions for months, most of what that focus group said was things along the line if 'what's with the chick with the pony tail?' 'congressional medal of honor? you gotta be kidding me' etc

they questioned Mitchell's qualifications. They questioned vala's intro....basically they mirrored many of the concerns that fans had been bringing up for months.

I'm not saying that the fans are always right. Or that everything they want done can be catered to. I'm not saying everything we say is 'right'.

However

When you have hundreds of fans expressing similar opinions, maybe it's worth looking into. Because some of the fan feelings can be mirrored in the feelings of the general public

I'm playing devils advocate here, because I think there were huge flaws with seasons 9/10, but, apart from this thread do we have proof that fans were very critical of seasons 9 and 10? Was there a groundswell of negative reviews and criticisms of the show? Or is that just the perception of this thread?
What were the viewing figures like? I'm assuming they were down on earlier seasons? Shows with climbing figures don't tend to get canceled, despite the rising cost of each season.

FF