S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Frostfox]

Yep. Prime example: Stronghold.
Teal'c is missing, probably being brainwashed, the Jaffa nation in disarray etc & that's pretty much the B story. (I remember when rescuing a team member was THE story.)

The A story is all about Mitchell's guilt trip about something that happened way before we knew him.
Then Sam is finally seen & said to have planned the rescue mission, but it becomes all about Mitchell running off to the ship w/out waiting for backup or even checking in with the *commander of the mission*--Sam. And that's supposed to be a good thing. Right.

A prime example.
I had no objection at all to BB joining and no problem with a new character. TPTB made it very, very hard for me to keep that opinion.
Most of the Mitchell episodes blur together for me, they didn't give me a good enough character to make me care about him.

Or it could be because, like him personally or not, he's a HUGE part of the franchise and why it was so successful. I may not be the world's biggest MS fan, but I do recognize and respect everything he brought to the show/universe. I'm sure the PTB do as well. Not that I think they don't like him, just pointing out that there are very valid reasons to include him/bring him back regardless of any personal issues.

TPTB and fellow actors say what a joy it is to work with Michael (most recently on Joe Mallozzi's blog). Are they all lying or pandering to his ego when they say nice things about him?
I just take their comments at face value, the same way I do when they say what a gorgeous person Amanda is to work with.

I have never read a bad comment about him from someone who works with him, just in hearsay and opinion from fans.

FF

[Crazedwraith]

Seriusly though, when would you hear them bad mouth anyone on anything offical i.e commentaries/ behind the scenes videos. They've all pretty much got to put up the front that everything a blissful happy fun-fun time at the stargate family. Have you ever seen any program that didn't talk about what fun it was to work there, and how every program eventually describes their cast and crew as a family.

So even if they hates MS's guts, they still wouldn't say so publicly. It would be ... well rude

[Ashizuri]

TPTB and fellow actors say what a joy it is to work with Michael (most recently on Joe Mallozzi's blog). Are they all lying or pandering to his ego when they say nice things about him?
I just take their comments at face value, the same way I do when they say what a gorgeous person Amanda is to work with.

I have never read a bad comment about him from someone who works with him, just in hearsay and opinion from fans.

FF

I never meant to imply that any negative comments regarding MS were true (I've personally never heard any), simply pointing out that Daniel Jackson's importance to the storyline would likely far outweigh any issues the PTB had, whether real or fanwank, with MS.

It's a business after all and MS is a reliably bankable commodity in the Stargate universe.

Sorry for the offtopic.

Seriusly though, when would you hear them bad mouth anyone on anything offical i.e commentaries/ behind the scenes videos. They've all pretty much got to put up the front that everything a blissful happy fun-fun time at the stargate family. Have you ever seen any program that didn't talk about what fun it was to work there, and how every program eventually describes their cast and crew as a family.

So even if they hates MS's guts, they still wouldn't say so publicly. It would be ... well rude

I don't know, there were some not completely polite things said about RDA after his departure....

[Frostfox]

Seriusly though, when would you hear them bad mouth anyone on anything offical i.e commentaries/ behind the scenes videos. They've all pretty much got to put up the front that everything a blissful happy fun-fun time at the stargate family. Have you ever seen any program that didn't talk about what fun it was to work there, and how every program eventually describes their cast and crew as a family.

So even if they hates MS's guts, they still wouldn't say so publicly. It would be ... well rude

If they don't like someone, they tend not to say anything at all.
Perhaps they all hate Amanda's guts too and just keep saying how nice she is to fool us?

FF

[Mandysg1]

I don't know, there were some not completely polite things said about RDA after his departure....

Yea, that just wasn't right, it seemed to me they 'towing the line' trying to show how much more fun the show was now, now that he was gone


yea, so much fun, it turned me off the new characters completely

[hedwig]

Or it could be because, like him personally or not, he's a HUGE part of the franchise and why it was so successful. I may not be the world's biggest MS fan, but I do recognize and respect everything he brought to the show/universe. I'm sure the PTB do as well. Not that I think they don't like him, just pointing out that there are very valid reasons to include him/bring him back regardless of any personal issues.

I may undoubtedly be in the minority here, but while I like the character of Daniel well enough, he was never any part of the reason I started watching Stargate. And before seeing MS on the show, I'd never even heard of him, while I'd at least heard of and seen AT in one or two things before the series aired. (And it may sound rather mean of me, but if the show had been mostly focussed on Daniel, I wouldn't have watched it.) And, of course, I knew about RDA/MacGyver (though I never watched that show). And as I continued to watch SG1, it was because of the team as a group that I continued watching it, and then because Sam became my favorite character. And then as we got into S9&10, I became severely frustrated and annoyed that it seemed to be turning into the Daniel Jackson(Vala) show, with Mitchell running a close second to all their stuff. I really, really, really wanted to see a lot more Sam and/or Teal'c in some good episodes, but unfortunately (IMO) they seemed to be just along for the ride and for Teal'c to get beaten up/tortured, or for Sam to rush in with her handy computer in her backpack to save the day, and nothing much more of substance.

I never meant to imply that any negative comments regarding MS were true (I've personally never heard any), simply pointing out that Daniel Jackson's importance to the storyline would likely far outweigh any issues the PTB had, whether real or fanwank, with MS.

It's a business after all and MS is a reliably bankable commodity in the Stargate universe.

Sorry for the offtopic.

I don't know, there were some not completely polite things said about RDA after his departure....

After hearing about/reading MS's interview in 2001 (or thereabouts) about his departure from the show (and how it was handled) and his reasons why and his complaints about how certain other characters took the focus away from him, my opinion of him dropped several degrees and hasn't recovered - no matter how nice he apparently is to work with. And apparently Chris Judge made a comment or two as well (recently) about how things got more fun around the set when RDA left. I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but given those remarks, I have to wonder just how rosy things were during the run of the series, or if they were just like any big family who gets into spats now and then and make up and things are fine until the next spat pops up.

[Crazedwraith]

If they don't like someone, they tend not to say anything at all.

This is of course a very good point but you can't always do that. Say when you're answering fan's questions for example. You have to say something.

Perhaps they all hate Amanda's guts too and just keep saying how nice she is to fool us?

Well, I don't really pay attention but there's a difference between spontaneously praising someone and praising someone when asked about them or when they're a prominent part of an episode your doing the commentary on for example.

I'm not trying to seriously argue that TPTB actually hate anyone here. I'm just saying that if they did. They don't really have much reason to make it obvious to the fans or outsiders. What you think of someone and what you will admit to thinking are two very different things.

[Frostfox]

I may undoubtedly in the minority here, but while I like the character of Daniel well enough, he was never any part of the reason I started watching Stargate. And before seeing MS on the show, I'd never even heard of him, while I'd at least heard of and seen AT in one or two things before the series aired. (And it may sound rather mean of me, but if the show had been mostly focussed on him, I wouldn't have watched it.) And, of course, I knew about RDA/MacGyver (though I never watched that show). And as I continued to watch SG1, it was because of the team as a group that I continued watching it, and then because Sam became my favorite character. And then as we got into S9&10, I became severely frustrated and annoyed that it seemed to be turning into the Daniel Jackson(Vala) show, with Mitchell running a close second to all their stuff. I really, really, really wanted to see a lot more Sam and/or Teal'c in some good episodes, but unfortunately (IMO) they seemed to be just along for the ride and for Teal'c to get beaten up/tortured, or for Sam to rush in with her handy computer in her backpack to save the day, and nothing much more of substance.

I'd never heard of any of the big four before I started watching. Including RDA.

After hearing about/reading MS's interview in 2001 (or thereabouts) about his departure from the show and his reasons why and his complaints about how certain other characters took the focus away from him, my opinion of him dropped several degrees and hasn't recovered - not matter how nice he apparently is to work with. And apparently Chris Judge made a comment or two as well (recently) about how things got more fun around the set when RDA left. I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but given those remarks, I have to wonder just how rosy things were during the run of the series, or if they were just like any big family who gets into spats now and then and make up and things are fine until the next spat pops up.

I'm not playing Michael as a saint above reproach, some of the dirty laundry aired in season five should have stayed between himself and TPTB. And all actors have ego, no matter how nice they are, it's a character trait which is part of what makes them actors.
But then, an argument could be made that Amanda's comments about TPTB telling her that they 'didn't know what to do with Sam', which she told fans on stage at a convention, should also have been between herself and TPTB.

Essentially, she felt that they dismissed her character in the same way MS's felt his character was being dismissed in season five.
Personally, I lost respect for TPTB rather than Michael or Amanda, who only wanted the best for their characters.

FF

[Dankriss]

Ok just to add a little bit here and slightly off topic....

These people we are talking about are human and are just the same as us, in other words they may say things they regret they may do things they regret but hopefully we can forgive them and see past that....and as the old adage or the bible says...

'Let he/she who is without sin throw the first stone'

We all live on the same planet and there will be people we hate and people we love but hopefully we can all live together.

Oh and before you ask I am not religious but I think that saying says it all....

Kriss

[Ashizuri]

I may undoubtedly in the minority here, but while I like the character of Daniel well enough, he was never any part of the reason I started watching Stargate. And before seeing MS on the show, I'd never even heard of him, while I'd at least heard of and seen AT in one or two things before the series aired. (And it may sound rather mean of me, but if the show had been mostly focussed on him, I wouldn't have watched it.) And, of course, I knew about RDA/MacGyver (though I never watched that show). And as I continued to watch SG1, it was because of the team as a group that I continued watching it, and then because Sam became my favorite character. And then as we got into S9&10, I became severely frustrated and annoyed that it seemed to be turning into the Daniel Jackson(Vala) show, with Mitchell running a close second to all their stuff. I really, really, really wanted to see a lot more Sam and/or Teal'c in some good episodes, but unfortunately (IMO) they seemed to be just along for the ride and for Teal'c to get beaten up/tortured, or for Sam to rush in with her handy computer in her backpack to save the day, and nothing much more of substance.

Daniel was a big draw for me, mostly because of James Spader, though I do enjoy MS' portrayal.
James Spader > Michael Shanks.

But I'm of the opinion that Jack/Daniel/Sam/Teal'c were of the same importance to the show. It wouldn't have worked without all four of them, they were all necessary. It was a TEAM SHOW. So yeah, I completely agree that seasons 9/10 completely lost the plot in regards to that teamy feeling.

[jckfan55]

I have respect for actors sticking up for their characters--if they've been playing the characters for a while, they know those characters inside and out and have an emotional investment in them. I much prefer that to an "I'm too cool for this silly show" vibe we got from tptb a lot of the time toward the end.

I think tptb ran into a problem of writing episodes for particular characters and forgetting that the "magic" was the *team* meeting these challenges. As much as I love Jack and I love Sam (not as a couple ), I don't think the "Sam Show" or the "Jack Show" would have caught me & made me a fan.

Some of the problem was likely fallout from RDA's reduced schedule where they got used to splitting the team (more than they had to imho), some was infatuation with the "new," some was probably burnout.

IMHO, if you couldn't see the many possiblities for Teal'c,Sam and Daniel as a core team beyond their original storylines you probably should have bailed out of the show. heck, *we* came up with tons of ideas in 10 minutes that I think could have been turned into episodes.

[Frostfox]

Daniel was a big draw for me, mostly because of James Spader, though I do enjoy MS' portrayal.
James Spader > Michael Shanks.

But I'm of the opinion that Jack/Daniel/Sam/Teal'c were of the same importance to the show. It wouldn't have worked without all four of them, they were all necessary. It was a TEAM SHOW. So yeah, I completely agree that seasons 9/10 completely lost the plot in regards to that teamy feeling.

To be absolutely fair, they had started to lose the knack before 9/10, but it went completely out the window with the latter seasons.

FF

[Ashizuri]

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To be absolutely fair, they had started to lose the knack before 9/10, but it went completely out the window with the latter seasons.

FF

True fact.

Season 7 was a bit iffy for me (though I do think it was when the cast was looking their absolute hottest...which, though in no way relevant to the plot, still factors into my enjoyment...I'm very shallow...), I tend to skip around a lot in that season. But I thought season 8 was a definite upturn. Then season 9 happened...

[Frostfox]

I have respect for actors sticking up for their characters--if they've been playing the characters for a while, they know those characters inside and out and have an emotional investment in them. I much prefer that to an "I'm too cool for this silly show" vibe we got from tptb a lot of the time toward the end.

I think tptb ran into a problem of writing episodes for particular characters and forgetting that the "magic" was the *team* meeting these challenges. As much as I love Jack and I love Sam (not as a couple ), I don't think the "Sam Show" or the "Jack Show" would have caught me & made me a fan.

Some of the problem was likely fallout from RDA's reduced schedule where they got used to splitting the team (more than they had to imho), some was infatuation with the "new," some was probably burnout.

IMHO, if you couldn't see the many possiblities for Teal'c,Sam and Daniel as a core team beyond their original storylines you probably should have bailed out of the show. heck, *we* came up with tons of ideas in 10 minutes that I think could have been turned into episodes.

WORD.
I became a fan through Jack and Daniel.
Though I got bored of RDA's playing of Jack in later seasons and more of a fan of Sam, mostly because of respect for Amanda.
And I fell in love with the basic Team, all four of them.

True fact.

Season 7 was a bit iffy for me (though I do think it was when the cast was looking their absolute hottest...which, though in no way relevant to the plot, still factors into my enjoyment...I'm very shallow...), I tend to skip around a lot in that season. But I thought season 8 was a definite upturn. Then season 9 happened...

Nothing wrong with shallow! Teh pretty is very important. It's just not all there is to SG1 and for me the magic was Team.

FF

[jckfan55]

Sam finding out who they put in charge of SG1 while she was gone