S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

with talion, i didn't have an issue with seeing that teal'c could be a cold blooded killer. He was first prime of apophis, he led raids, he committed acts of war and things we'd define as war crimes or crimes against humanity

yes, he's atoning and yes, he was a tortured soul

so, i had no issue seeing the dark side of him

I think my biggest nit was the catalyst being his mother's murderer...a woman thats' only been mentioned once in 10 years and doesn't even have a name. and then how SG-1 just seemed to go 'eh, more jaffa revenge' and shook it off.

If i were them, i'd be pissed.

so my two biggest issues were the 'plot device' nature of his mother's murder (beyond 'my mother and i lived in an outcast camp' we'd never heard about his mother) and the near total lack of fallout from his actions

It was liek the writers sat down 'mmhm, you know we need to have teal'c have a story don't we?' and since they seem limited to only giving teal'c the storylines of 'jaffa revenge' or 'getting a girlfriend', they stayed in their same comfortable little rut

it wasn't horrible but it could have been better.

[Crazedwraith]

In addition; there's the similar situation with the villain of the piece. Apparently a big rival of Teal'c's and Bra'tac's for many years who has fought them many times and lived to tale. Yet we've never heard of him before now and his tatto was not that of a prominent system lord as far as I recall. So how does a minion of minor play become a rival to one of the top dog system lords like Apophsis whose great rival was the Supreme System Lord Ra.

These a similar 'mary sue' traits to what Cameron has and are not the makings of a good character. He just doesn't make sense.

A better episode would have Teal'c actually grow up as a character and give up on the jaffa revenge thing; instead choosing to honour the government and laws that he helped create. You could work in some political subterfuge or trap whereing Teal'c managed to totally legally discredit the guy in front of the Taur'i and the Jaffa Council.

It was liek the writers sat down 'mmhm, you know we need to have teal'c have a story don't we?' and since they seem limited to only giving teal'c the storylines of 'jaffa revenge' or 'getting a girlfriend', they stayed in their same comfortable little rut

Quite true. I think I've said in this thread before that one of the reasons Avatar is a good episode is because it doesn't fall into this trap. The only other one like it I can think of is 'Bane,' maybe Changeling.

[Skydiver]

if they wanted jaffa revenge, how about having ry'ac threatened? or have this guy attack the planet that ryac and kar'yn are living on and have one of them hurt and teal'c goes all protective daddy

instead of avenging a long dead woman that we've barely heard about, how about avenging the son that we've seen many times?

[mparsons1981]

Sure i absolutely agree with the 2 above posts in relation to the deus ex machina of the episode.

I do think that its a great episode for the performance of Christoper Judge, and feel that his motivations are accurate for the reasons given above.

[face of jase.]

I need to vent.

My biggest issue with seasons 9 & 10 was that so much emphasis was on technology. Amazing advanced technology that was super powerful that amazingly advanced races have left on our plane of existence. All we need to do is find these amazingly awesome and super weapons and flip the on switch. 'Store houses of riches' and technology. Yuck.

What ever happened to my beloved SG-1 team turning the tide of war by simply throwing a knife at a goa'uld with a personal shield, or the team planting some C4 around a mother ship and getting the hell outta there!

Those were the days!

All the plot devices within the later seasons were almost entirely deus ex machina

- Store house of ancient tech in avalon
- The clava thesaura infinatus
- The anti prior device
- Merlins weapon
- The ark of truth

and even in season 8, with the dakara super weapon as well as season 7's kull disruptors.

It was just all too convenient and came off as un-natural to the point of cringing.

[/RANT]

[EvenstarSRV]

if they wanted jaffa revenge, how about having ry'ac threatened? or have this guy attack the planet that ryac and kar'yn are living on and have one of them hurt and teal'c goes all protective daddy

instead of avenging a long dead woman that we've barely heard about, how about avenging the son that we've seen many times?

Good idea, and it would have been a nice way to reference Ry'ac. I really enjoyed Teal'c changing relationship with his son, and it still saddens me that the show just kinda forgot about him after season 8.

I need to vent.

My biggest issue with seasons 9 & 10 was that so much emphasis was on technology. Amazing advanced technology that was super powerful that amazingly advanced races have left on our plane of existence. All we need to do is find these amazingly awesome and super weapons and flip the on switch. 'Store houses of riches' and technology. Yuck.

What ever happened to my beloved SG-1 team turning the tide of war by simply throwing a knife at a goa'uld with a personal shield, or the team planting some C4 around a mother ship and getting the hell outta there!

Those were the days!

All the plot devices within the later seasons were almost entirely deus ex machina

- Store house of ancient tech in avalon
- The clava thesaura infinatus
- The anti prior device
- Merlins weapon
- The ark of truth

and even in season 8, with the dakara super weapon as well as season 7's kull disruptors.

It was just all too convenient and came off as un-natural to the point of cringing.

[/RANT]

I mostly agree, the over-reliance on Ancient tech is one part of the later seasons that I disliked. After the first couple of devices, it became rather silly how many weapons the Ancients left strewn across the galaxy.

On the other hand, the primary mission of SG-1 has always been to acquire weapons and technology to fight the Goa'uld, so it wouldn't really make sense after so many years of using the Stargate for the SGC to still just uses guns and C-4.

For myself, I like the tech that the SGC had to work to develop over time, like the Kull weapons, naquadah reactors, 302 and Prometheus. I'd include the anti-prior device as well, since it was a weapon the SGC had to develop for itself, they didn't just find it and turn it on.

[Skydiver]

in the early seasons, it was 'the little humans that could', they thought and plotted and lucked their way out of trouble. sam figured something out, jack came up with a dumb idea, daniel pressed the wrong button, teal'c heard a legend of....'

but in seasons 9 and 10 our team was little more than intergalactic treasure hunters and thieves, looking to find a quick fix and magic pill.

we went from a group of humans using their experiences and knowledge and luck to fix things to a bunch of folks just following the trail of bread crumbs to find a magic bullet to do their jobs for them

[jckfan55]

I do agree that it makes sense that they would have moved beyond their early tech & skills by the later seasons. But it became too easy to rely on some alien device. It was a convenience for the writers. The worst technical addition was beaming technology. This isn't Star Trek FCOL. I think the reliance on beaming and treasure hunting was a symptom of moving away from character & thought based stories to more straight "adventure" in S9 & 10.

I guess the -Ori were supposed to be deep. I just found them dull. Except for maybe Line in the Sand, we didn't really get to know the interchangeable villagers in the interchangeable village either.

[Gregorius]

but in seasons 9 and 10 our team was little more than intergalactic treasure hunters and thieves, looking to find a quick fix and magic pill.

Raiders of the Lost Galaxy?

[Skydiver]

pretty much

we turned from interpid explorers to intergalactic pirates

[EvenstarSRV]

I do agree that it makes sense that they would have moved beyond their early tech & skills by the later seasons. But it became too easy to rely on some alien device. It was a convenience for the writers. The worst technical addition was beaming technology. This isn't Star Trek FCOL. I think the reliance on beaming and treasure hunting was a symptom of moving away from character & thought based stories to more straight "adventure" in S9 & 10.

Yeah, when used sparingly I liked the beaming technology, but it did seem to become a crutch for the writers to get the team out of trouble once the SGC ships got them.

I guess the -Ori were supposed to be deep. I just found them dull. Except for maybe Line in the Sand, we didn't really get to know the interchangeable villagers in the interchangeable village either.

In general, to me it felt like the show became more like a fantasy series as opposed to a sci-fi series with the Ori, they didn't have that grounding in physical reality like I felt the Goa'uld and replicators did to a certain extent. And elements like how the Ori get their power, Adria and the Ark came across as magic, as opposed to having at least some basis in reality.

[Petra]

In general, to me it felt like the show became more like a fantasy series as opposed to a sci-fi series with the Ori, they didn't have that grounding in physical reality like I felt the Goa'uld and replicators did to a certain extent. And elements like how the Ori get their power, Adria and the Ark came across as magic, as opposed to having at least some basis in reality.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing today. I was just going to point to that awful dragon from The Quest as a proof. Come on, which sci-fi series/movie shows dragons? They belong firmly to the fantasy land..

[EvenstarSRV]

Funny, I was thinking the same thing today. I was just going to point to that awful dragon from The Quest as a proof. Come on, which sci-fi series/movie shows dragons? They belong firmly to the fantasy land..

Hehe, that was a rather silly dragon, more like a dragonfly.

But I think Stargate has always had its share of wacky creatures, so the dragon didn't really bother me too much in that respect, though it is a bit more cliche than say the Unas. It was more how they dealt with the dragan with the name magic stuff that made it more fantasy than sci-fi to me.

One of the things that made Stargate stand out for me from other sci-fi shows was that they usually tried to explain the sci-fi parts of the show with modern-day science. They did often stretch or embellish theories, but they at least attempted an explanation.

With the Ori, it often felt like the writers didn't want to even attempt a scientific explanation, like how they turn person's belief into physical energy, or how the Ark could change people's minds. It must have made the Ori easier to write for, in a sense, because their powers didn't seem to be constrained by physical reality, they simply had to be 'possible'.

[Skydiver]

yep, deus ex machina.....plot device here, don't ask that it works, just accept that we tell you that it does

easier to write that way. More than once the writers would complain about how hard it was to research the science stuff

[Gregorius]

The whole "belief = power" thing really sucked. It would've been more interesting if the Ori actually ascended people to create an ascended army to fight the Ancients. Of course this would require the writers to start explaining what ascension actually is in the SG universe.