S10: Critique & Contemplation

[slurredspeech]

depends.

usually I'm just told that i have no idea what i'm talking about, they're right and sam and jack destroyed the show as did the writers with their pathetic attempt to force sam and jack together in defiance to the complete and total jack/daniel chemistry

Sorry for butting in, but I have this big sign here with DADT in bold capital letters just sitting around, doing nothing. Thought I'd stick it in here somewhere. *shrug*

Oi. No matter how utterly stupid, discriminatory and infuriating that rule is, it's there. So regs wouldn't be the only obstacle for them two.

Aside from the definite convenience for the show, I am inclined to think that more specialized divisions of the military would likely get more leeway with enforcing the rules. Like with the teams, since it likely requires a more specific training process for SGC recruits, the pool for new members is probably smaller than at other operations. And I'd think a smaller pool of candidates would mean that teams that should get new members maybe can't.

No, you're right. Special ops/British marines, them sort of groups are indeed smaller and very much connected and tight (though, in the case of Britain - and I'm pretty sure the same goes for the American marines/special ops - women are not allowed to join). Then again, people joining are, in general, known to be more conservative by nature, and then you have the nature of the job and training that is very strenuous and requires a high level of discipline, from both the commanders and commandees (a word? who knows!). I live next to a camp of mostly marines but we don't really socialize with them as much, partly because they're so tight-knit and keep to themselves for the most part - which could very well support your argument!
So, like I said, could go either way, though - comparisons to RL special operations aside - the nature of the SG program would, IMHO, require certain adjustments to the way things are normally done.

[suse]

Agreed.

Though I don't think the adjustments would be allowing a known thief/con artist - one who stole a *ship* and at that time *and* later held a team member for ransom - on a team, trusting her with the computers, people's lives and a gun.

I also don't think they would allow someone untrained for the job to be the flagship team leader (even if he led somewhere else) - especially when all but the earliest recruits were sent thru training. Stargate Commands uniqueness would make that a bad idea.

suse

[Ashizuri]

depends.

usually I'm just told that i have no idea what i'm talking about, they're right and sam and jack destroyed the show as did the writers with their pathetic attempt to force sam and jack together in defiance to the complete and total jack/daniel chemistry

While I'm not technically a slasher (there was a point in season 7 where I was convinced RDA and MS should take their shirts off, spray each other down with a hose, and wrestle...), I would assume the DADT is a bigger obsticle than frat regs, seeing as fraternization is frowned upon between officers in the same command and a homosexual relationship at any time would be illegal.

If a relationship between J/S happened, and there were no instances of favoratism/bias, I would assume both would get knocked back a rank or two, reprimands would go in their files, and both would be immediately redeployed; whereas if J/D got caught Jack would be court-martialed, dishonorably discharged , and sent to Leavenworth while Daniel was removed from the program, likely being harrased/assaulted (stupid DADT...).

I would agree with the slashers that J/D had the best chemistry in the show, but unlike scary "it's my OTP or death", (not just of the J/D variety, cause most of them are quite nice) type folks, J/D was not the inteneded pairing for the show and I'm ok with that. I have a firm belief that 95 % of fanfic writers for any pairing can handle romance better than TPTB for the show.

[Skydiver]

i don't disagree there. thus far, the writers of the show handle any ship with their sledgehammer of subtlty.

Jack, if found 'guilty' of fraternizing with sam would likely get a slap on the wrist (or more, depending on who he'd pissed off lately) but if he was found fraternizing with daniel, it woulda been much, much worse

fair or not, that's how it works.

but some fans took a line from Enigma - when the tollan are trying to leave, maybourne orders daniel to stop them and daniel refuses then gloats how he can't be court martialed because he's a civilian to = 'daniel is immune from any and all regs'

no, he's not. as a civilian contractor he has to follow the same rules as the others. the only real difference is, if he breaks them he's fired and loses his clearance and can't be court martialed.

that's the only difference, the punishment that's meted out

[slurredspeech]

Agreed.

Though I don't think the adjustments would be allowing a known thief/con artist - one who stole a *ship* and at that time *and* later held a team member for ransom - on a team, trusting her with the computers, people's lives and a gun.

I also don't think they would allow someone untrained for the job to be the flagship team leader (even if he led somewhere else) - especially when all but the earliest recruits were sent thru training. Stargate Commands uniqueness would make that a bad idea.

suse

Absolutely.

Then again, I don't consider the S9/10 SGC to be a military division at all, rather an Amateur Traveling Troupe. It's kind of like Amateur Theatre, only with Earth's fate hanging in the balance.

While I'm not technically a slasher (there was a point in season 7 where I was convinced RDA and MS should take their shirts off, spray each other down with a hose, and wrestle...), I would assume the DADT is a bigger obsticle than frat regs, seeing as fraternization is frowned upon between officers in the same command and a homosexual relationship at any time would be illegal.

If a relationship between J/S happened, and there were no instances of favoratism/bias, I would assume both would get knocked back a rank or two, reprimands would go in their files, and both would be immediately redeployed; whereas if J/D got caught Jack would be court-martialed, dishonorably discharged , and sent to Leavenworth while Daniel was removed from the program, likely being harrased/assaulted (stupid DADT...).

I would agree with the slashers that J/D had the best chemistry in the show, but unlike scary "it's my OPT or death", (not just of the J/D variety, cause most of them are quite nice) type folks, J/D was not the inteneded pairing for the show and I'm ok with that. I have a firm belief that 95 % of fanfic writers for any pairing can handle romance better than TPTB for the show.

Ayup! (I'll just put up a disclaimer saying I always agree with you and be done with it.)

Myself, I'm a slasher in some other fandoms and thus obviously don't have a problem with that. But I don't slash everyone because OMG U HAVTA; ONCE A SLASHER ALWAYS A SLASHER AND HET IS A DIRTY WORD NEVER TO BE UTTERED OR, WORSE, TYPED (don't ask), and same goes for het. If I see the chemistry, I'm at full attention. If not, well what's wrong with the good ol' friendship. Not everyone needs to be a part of a ship for their relationship to be appealing.

Also, I don't subscribe to OTP's (such a personal thing, innit?) or ship wars. Just that phrase makes me eyeballs roll back, never to be seen again. One pairing - or the group that supports it - does in no way make the other less, especially in the world of fandom. If it's made canon (and slash almost never is; yet) -- eh, someone will always be disappointed but that's what fics are for. Read them frequently.
But the hatred that is known to arise is ridiculous, and no matter how many fandoms I've been in, it never seizes to amaze me.

Plus, I heard ship wars take away IQ points. Don't do it.

[Ashizuri]

i don't disagree there. thus far, the writers of the show handle any ship with their sledgehammer of subtlty.

Is that the same sledgehammer they used to push the "isn't the season 10 team soooooo much teamier and better than the stinky old original team" idea? Or the "Vala is a victim and not in any way responsible for the horrible things she's done" mantra TPTB were singing?

Seems that sledgehammer got a lot of use.

that's the only difference, the punishment that's meted out

100% correct. Fair or not, J/D faces a million and half more obstacles than J/S.

Ayup! (I'll just put up a disclaimer saying I always agree with you and be done with it.)

Haha. But now that you've done that I'll start talking nonsense, just to be contrary.

Myself, I'm a slasher in some other fandoms and thus obviously don't have a problem with that. But I don't slash everyone because OMG U HAVTA; ONCE A SLASHER ALWAYS A SLASHER AND HET IS A DIRTY WORD NEVER TO BE UTTERED OR, WORSE, TYPED (don't ask), and same goes for het. If I see the chemistry, I'm at full attention. If not, well what's wrong with the good ol' friendship. Not everyone needs to be a part of a ship for their relationship to be appealing.

Also, I don't subscribe to OTP's (such a personal thing, innit?) or ship wars. Just that phrase makes me eyeballs roll back, never to be seen again. One pairing - or the group that supports it - does in no way make the other less, especially in the world of fandom. If it's made canon (and slash almost never is; yet) -- eh, someone will always be disappointed but that's what fics are for. Read them frequently.

This is my take on the situation as well. I've been known to slash Jack and Daniel, and in a few fandoms a totally non-canon slash pair is my ship of choice. I go with the chemistry, not what canon tells me. My super-sekrit het ship in SG-1 is Jack/Janet and though I've heard there was supposed to be some of that and RDA nixed the idea, there is no basis in canon. But it would be hotter than a really hot thing.

I enjoy most of the canon ships as well. Except, the D/V. I'll take Vala/Tomin thank you, I liked that ship. Basically, I'm just a big old multi-shipper. If they're hot and have the chemistry I will totally shove them together, even if canon says they hate each other. My personal OTP in SG is Jack/Daniel/Sam/Teal'c and it is the hottest SG pairing in existance. (IMO. I'm all about not being a ship-nazi on a warpath to destroy those who disagree with me.)

Most of the time I'd rather not have my ship, be it slash or het, made canon anyway. 9 times out of 10 the TPTB are just going to ruin it to create teh dramaz.

Plus, I heard ship wars take away IQ points. Don't do it.

True story. Shipping is all about the love, so love your ship and let others love theirs.

[Skydiver]

Shipping is all about the love, so love your ship and let others love theirs.

amen to that

hey, my favorite 'it was canon in the end and i don't care the timeline reset' was sam/teal'c

ship on the show was handled so much better when it was left to the interpretation of the fans.

I didn't find sam and jack as painful as some, but sam/pete came across as 'geeky writers living through their characters, and daniel/vala was a study in dysfunctional

[Ashizuri]

amen to that

hey, my favorite 'it was canon in the end and i don't care the timeline reset' was sam/teal'c

I liked the hints at Sam/Teal'c too. Although it makes me sad for Teal'c if Jack and Sam do get together in the real timeline because he'll always know what he had. I imagine Sam would be a hard woman to get over.

ship on the show was handled so much better when it was left to the interpretation of the fans.

I didn't find sam and jack as painful as some, but sam/pete came across as 'geeky writers living through their characters, and daniel/vala was a study in dysfunctional

I thought the Jack/Sam was a bit rough on Sam's character at times, but I don't think it was all bad and I do enjoy them. Sam/Pete would have been fine had it not seemed like it was just cannon-fodder for drama in the Jack/Sam. And had they not made Pete a stalker. Daniel/Vala...well, the best I can say about them is that it was a ship made of pretty.

[Mandysg1]

I thought the best ship was Daniel and Sha're, Daniel was shown as very loving and caring man; and he was determined to get her back from the Goa'uld. I also thought Daniel and Sarah (Osiris) would have been a good pairing for him; again he showed his compassion for Sarah in not releasing the symbiote poison (which would have killed Sarah also), and was helping her out when she was freed from the Goa'uld.

With Vala, Daniel seemed to lose his compassion and understanding, and was just...well not Daniel, and too mean at times. It was not a ship that did either character any good.

[silly sally]

amen to that

hey, my favorite 'it was canon in the end and i don't care the timeline reset' was sam/teal'c

ship on the show was handled so much better when it was left to the interpretation of the fans.

I didn't find sam and jack as painful as some, but sam/pete came across as 'geeky writers living through their characters, and daniel/vala was a study in dysfunctional

I'm sorry but I can't buy Sam/Teal'c in "Unending" <self-modded for personal attack on Amanda>

Anyway

I don't think I'll ever forgive Amanda for hinting at S/T no matter how many pro S/J shippy comments she does nowadays.
Coop is also to blame! How can you miss what the actors are hinting at???

LE: Also "Unending" for me managed to taint the beautiful Sam/Teal'c friendship of the earlier seasons which really shouldn't surprise me as S9-10 frequently managed to either ignore or portray in OOC well-established characters (Jack, Sam , Teal'c, Daniel)

[Allie_Kreek]

LE: Also "Unending" for me managed to taint the beautiful Sam/Teal'c friendship of the earlier seasons which really shouldn't surprise me as S9-10 frequently managed to either ignore or portray in OOC well-established characters (Jack, Sam , Teal'c, Daniel)

I agree with that. I found the whole Sam/Teal'c ship silly. I just have this idea in my head that the writers were at a loss for what to do and in the end we got Unending. I wouldn't have been surprised if the writers had come up with Mitchell and Landry having a secret relationship just for the drama... that whole episode was poor.

[slurredspeech]

Okay, seriously?

I didn't even notice a hint of S/T, at least not in a romantic way. They... what, hugged? Wouldn't consider the possibility if I haven't read about it here.

I'm sure there are people out there (my RL SG watching companions included) who didn't catch it either. What with anymosity?

My point would, I guess, be that it's very easy to ignore if one so chooses.

[silly sally]

I agree with that. I found the whole Sam/Teal'c ship silly. I just have this idea in my head that the writers were at a loss for what to do and in the end we got Unending. I wouldn't have been surprised if the writers had come up with Mitchell and Landry having a secret relationship just for the drama... that whole episode was poor.

Be careful as Sam/Teal'c mess was not scripted (Coop didn't write that into the episode, nor did he give directorial cues toward that); that part of the episode is only Amanda and Chris' fault!

[Allie_Kreek]

Be careful as Sam/Teal'c mess was not scripted (Coop didn't write that into the episode, nor did he give directorial cues toward that); that part of the episode is only Amanda and Chris' fault!

Wow. I didn't know that! Oh now I understand the anger... I still don't like Unending.

[Ashizuri]

I liked the Sam/Teal'c hints.

I didn't take it as love thing, but as two people who couldn't be with the ones they did love (whoever they might be) and who didn't want to spend their lives alone coming together and easing a bit of the sorrow with a deep friendship/companionship that likely had a physical side. A "friends with benefits" type situation, only deeper and more meaningful.

I'd rather think they at least had that than spend their entire lives alone. That would be entirely too sad for me.