S10: Critique & Contemplation

[EvenstarSRV]

Was that on YouTube? I swear I saw a video just like that.

I sure hope not (), it was made a while ago on 8mm tape and we never digitized it so it could be uploaded anywhere. But there are lots of Star Wars videos like that online, which is where we got inspired to make ours and got some nice tips on how to make the effects and such.

Yes, when we became Masters of the Universe it became considerably less exciting, as well as less realistic. It's always more fun to root for the underdog.

It is, and while I think that's what the writers were going for with the Ori in season 9, I feel that that underdog perspective could have been created by having the SGC lose some of the technology they gained rather than creating an even more powerful enemy. Losing the Prometheus should have been a massive blow with continuing repercussions to the program, but then it was replaced in the very next episode with an even more powerful ship.

True enough, though since this is the new version of the S10 complaint thread most of we "old time" posters are unhappy with much of the direction of S10. and a lot of that started in S9, hence the overlap.

I'm not an old-time poster here, but I think it's just difficult to discuss season 10 without often referring to season 9 as well, since virtually all of the storylines in 10 began in 9. Many of my issues with how the Ori were defeated in the Shroud tie directly back to how they were introduced in Avalon/Origin, so it's hard to discuss one without the other.

Two things I liked about S9 &10. Sam didn't have the whole Pete & Jack thing hanging over her. Sam and Cam had a comfortable rapport. I still thought it could have been better dealt with, but hey, looking for silver linings here. If we had gotten to know Cam gradually, I think that Sam/Cam friendship could have been a strong element for me.

I agree re the Sam/Cam friendship, I liked elements of their relationship in Ethon and Arthur's Mantle, but it didn't really gel for me until Line in the Sand.

I think one aspect that probably hindered not just Cam's relationship with Sam but with the rest of the team, was that it felt like most of the initial episodes focused on the character (Babylon, Collateral Damage, Stronghold) developed him outside of the team context.

I agree with this. I think so much of the relationships between all the characters were overshadowed because of the "Vala" factor. Her character overpowered not only the other characters, but their relationships as well.

I agree, which is why I think it probably would have served the story better for Vala to be a reoccurring character rather than a full-time team member.

[suse]

As someone pointed out, it's very hard to discuss only S10 as the (imo stink) of S9 is all over it and overshadows how the characters and stories are seen.

I've mentioned a few things I've liked about S10. Somewhere. Seriously, I have. It's just mostly buried in the more negative feelings about story direction and characterization. S10 had it's moments.

suse

[dipsofjazz]

I thought this thread was to critique and contemplate S10. See the title. Critique can be good or bad.

If you wish to be pedantic about my post, then please note that I never said that this thread was ONLY for complaints about seasons 9 and 10.

We're not here to make anyone 'see the light'. This thread is the place for those of us that didn't like many aspects of seasons 9 and 10 to come and discuss why.

Personally, I really enjoyed Season 10, but not as much as S9, and I liked both a lot more than S8.

Personally, I really enjoyed season 8, slept through most of season 10, and detested season 9.

[Petra]

It is, and while I think that's what the writers were going for with the Ori in season 9, I feel that that underdog perspective could have been created by having the SGC lose some of the technology they gained rather than creating an even more powerful enemy. Losing the Prometheus should have been a massive blow with continuing repercussions to the program, but then it was replaced in the very next episode with an even more powerful ship.

I love this idea. And it would be realistic. Prometheus was the only ship I liked and didn't mind seeing, when she blew up I was really shocked. And a little relieved, as I thought that it would mean we'd be back to using the Gate. Unfortunately it turned out we had a whole fleet of ships, getting more and more advanced, and it stopped having anything to do with reality.

I agree re the Sam/Cam friendship, I liked elements of their relationship in Ethon and Arthur's Mantle, but it didn't really gel for me until Line in the Sand.
I think one aspect that probably hindered not just Cam's relationship with Sam but with the rest of the team, was that it felt like most of the initial episodes focused on the character (Babylon, Collateral Damage, Stronghold) developed him outside of the team context.

I for one wasn't so keen on their "friendship". I mean I liked it before Sam came back to the SGC, it was very refreshing and nice to see her comfortable and relaxed with another officer (not that we didn't see it before; Sam's comfortable friendship with Col Ronson immidiately comes to mind), but once she did I couldn't buy it. It rang false to me that she'd be so friendly with a guy who repeatedly put her closest friends - and her - at risk. Not to mention the whole command thing.

And what puzzles me is the attitude of some fans, who claim that Sam and Jack couldn't be friends because of their working relationship and yet who sing praises of Sam/Cam friendship ignoring the fact that it's basically the same situation. They are both AF officers, both on the same team and Cam is technically her CO. If being friends with Jack was inappropriate, then being friends with Cam also is.

I agree, which is why I think it probably would have served the story better for Vala to be a reoccurring character rather than a full-time team member.

Agreed. If Vala in her season 9 incarnation was made a reocurring character I'd love her to bits. She'd probably be one of my favourite characters. As it played out..I like her, but under several conditions and absolutely can't stand her in several episodes (*cough*Bounty*cough), which is a real shame. She had great potential.

[jasminaGo]

I for one wasn't so keen on their "friendship". I mean I liked it before Sam came back to the SGC, it was very refreshing and nice to see her comfortable and relaxed with another officer (not that we didn't see it before; Sam's comfortable friendship with Col Ronson immidiately comes to mind), but once she did I couldn't buy it. It rang false to me that she'd be so friendly with a guy who repeatedly put her closest friends - and her - at risk. Not to mention the whole command thing.

I agree.

Honestly, the whole Sam/Cam friendship thing for me was nothing more than part of the 'you must like Mitchell' campaign TPTB had going on.

If Sam and Cam are good friends, and she's doesn't mention the fact that after leading R&D she's been demoted down to 2IC in a team she once lead serving under someone with less experience then her, everyone else will also forget about that, because... well... they're buddies.

[Vladius]

They weren't forcing "YOU MUST LIKE MITCHELL." I think it was more an attempt to make him likable, and it largely succeeded. Not here, of course.

I would agree that adding ships took a lot of the fun out of it.

[jasminaGo]

They weren't forcing "YOU MUST LIKE MITCHELL." I think it was more an attempt to make him likable, and it largely succeeded. Not here, of course.

I would agree that adding ships took a lot of the fun out of it.

Yes they did. Making him a hero from the start instead of showing him become one over time, all the members of SG-1 thanking him for all he's done, giving him a MoH (probably without even checking to see what that medal means), turning Walter into a fanboy, to name just a few. To me all of that screamed "Look at how awesome Mitchell is, everyone on the show like him, so you should like him too."

[Ashizuri]

I love this idea. And it would be realistic. Prometheus was the only ship I liked and didn't mind seeing, when she blew up I was really shocked. And a little relieved, as I thought that it would mean we'd be back to using the Gate. Unfortunately it turned out we had a whole fleet of ships, getting more and more advanced, and it stopped having anything to do with reality.

The whole fleet of new, awesome ships made me wonder if the budget problems that had always faced the SCG/Program had suddenly disappeared, but I assume that those very belivable problems went out the window with most of the previous canon.

As for things I liked, this may come as a shock, but I like Mitchell. I really do, which is why I get so irritated at this show and the writers. I wanted to like him so much more than they let me. I really can't explain why I wanted to like this guy so much, I mean, he's a pretty cliche character and I'm not a big fan of BB, but I really, really wanted to. Which is why I complain so much about the rediculousness of his intro/back story and why they insisted on writing him like a wet-behind-the-ears newbie when he was meant to be a seasoned officer.

@ jasminaGo

I swear, every time some one mentions the CMoH I have the irrational urge to throw something. That is like, number 2 on my list of "are you freaking serious?" moments in regards to this show.

[silly sally]

The whole fleet of new, awesome ships made me wonder if the budget problems that had always faced the SCG/Program had suddenly disappeared, but I assume that those very belivable problems went out the window with most of the previous canon.

As for things I liked, this may come as a shock, but I like Mitchell. I really do, which is why I get so irritated at this show and the writers. I wanted to like him so much more than they let me. I really can't explain why I wanted to like this guy so much, I mean, he's a pretty cliche character and I'm not a big fan of BB, but I really, really wanted to. Which is why I complain so much about the rediculousness of his intro/back story and why they insisted on writing him like a wet-behind-the-ears newbie when he was meant to be a seasoned officer.

@ jasminaGo

I swear, every time some one mentions the CMoH I have the irrational urge to throw something. That is like, number 2 on my list of "are you freaking serious?" moments in regards to this show.

What's your no 1?

[jasminaGo]

The whole fleet of new, awesome ships made me wonder if the budget problems that had always faced the SCG/Program had suddenly disappeared, but I assume that those very belivable problems went out the window with most of the previous canon.

As for things I liked, this may come as a shock, but I like Mitchell. I really do, which is why I get so irritated at this show and the writers. I wanted to like him so much more than they let me. I really can't explain why I wanted to like this guy so much, I mean, he's a pretty cliche character and I'm not a big fan of BB, but I really, really wanted to. Which is why I complain so much about the rediculousness of his intro/back story and why they insisted on writing him like a wet-behind-the-ears newbie when he was meant to be a seasoned officer.

Same here on the bolded part.

@ jasminaGo

I swear, every time some one mentions the CMoH I have the irrational urge to throw something. That is like, number 2 on my list of "are you freaking serious?" moments in regards to this show.

As long as you don't throw it at me...
Do I wanna know what's the #1 moment?

[Ashizuri]

What's your no 1?

As long as you don't throw it at me...
Do I wanna know what's the #1 moment?

Immaculately concepted super-aging alien baby becomes super-sexy leader of an evil galactic religion.

[jasminaGo]

Immaculately concepted super-aging alien baby becomes super-sexy leader of an evil galactic religion.

I can see why it's #1.

[Petra]

The whole fleet of new, awesome ships made me wonder if the budget problems that had always faced the SCG/Program had suddenly disappeared, but I assume that those very belivable problems went out the window with most of the previous canon.

Good point about the budget, I didn't think of it.

As for things I liked, this may come as a shock, but I like Mitchell. I really do, which is why I get so irritated at this show and the writers. I wanted to like him so much more than they let me. I really can't explain why I wanted to like this guy so much, I mean, he's a pretty cliche character and I'm not a big fan of BB, but I really, really wanted to. Which is why I complain so much about the rediculousness of his intro/back story and why they insisted on writing him like a wet-behind-the-ears newbie when he was meant to be a seasoned officer.

It's not like I set out to dislike Mitchell from the beginning. On the contrary. As I said before, when MS decided to leave I was quite antagonistic towards Jonas, but he needed exactly one episode (Redemption p1) to win me over.

So when I heard about RDA's "replacement" I fully expected to like him. It never occured to me that the writers would shoot themselves in the foot with such botched introduction. I started watching season 9 with great expectations but unfortunately I just couldn't - still can't obviously - get past Cam's supposed awesomness.

And yeah, what's your number 1? You posted faster, never mind then.

it's such a nice phrase..

[HPMom]

Yes they did. Making him a hero from the start instead of showing him become one over time, all the members of SG-1 thanking him for all he's done, giving him a MoH (probably without even checking to see what that medal means), turning Walter into a fanboy, to name just a few. To me all of that screamed "Look at how awesome Mitchell is, everyone on the show like him, so you should like him too."

Amen to that!

[Ashizuri]

Good point about the budget, I didn't think of it.

It's not like I set out to dislike Mitchell from the beginning. On the contrary. As I said before, when MS decided to leave I was quite antagonistic towards Jonas, but he needed exactly one episode (Redemption p1) to win me over.

So when I heard about RDA's "replacement" I fully expected to like him. It never occured to me that the writers would shoot themselves in the foot with such botched introduction. I started watching season 9 with great expectations but unfortunately I just couldn't - still can't obviously - get past Cam's supposed awesomness.

And yeah, what's your number 1? You posted faster, never mind then.

it's such a nice phrase..

I have a total fangirl crush on Jonas, I really do. At the time when MS's Daniel was so cranky and miserable (and kinda harshing my enjoyment of the show, if I'm being honest) I found Jonas' sense of wonder and excitement about what he was doing refreshing. And the fact that the team brushed him off in the begininng and he had to earn their respect and trust and friendship, and that while Jack may have learned to depend and rely on him, he never liked him.

It was real. It was believable. Jonas was awesome. I wish we had more of him.