S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Vladius]

wow, this thread has suddenly ballooned up over the last day.

Anyway, the big problem i think with Cam was the way they tried instantly catapult him to the big time hero that everyone loves so the team could instantly be the big friendly family we had with the orginal team rather than letting it slowly develop from the actors and the character's shared expereince.

I always thought cam's best scenes were when he was displayed as slighly more insecure and having doubts about his usefulness to the team.

I've said this here before but I think AT's abscence for filming the first few epidose is probably the root cause of the most of the problems people have as it caused the writers to break up SG-1 to write her out for the first episodes.

Come to think of it, if they hadn't brought in Vala, they could have had Mitchell as the eager new recruit and a familar high ranker as temporary leader. (Dixon/Griff/Reynolds hell even Ferretti would be good) but of course then they would have an all male cast which I assume is a bit of PC no-no.

Speaking of political correctness, why does there need to be a female lead when that would be completely unrealistic?

[Vladius]

Please explain to be how "the male is needed to lead because the (mostly male) viewers will be more comfortable watching a male in that position" isn't a writing/out-of-universe argument.

suse

It is. I was fighting fire with fire.

[suse]

It was his team because Landry said it was his team. He got to pick people. He picked the old SG-1, they said no, Vala came through, it aggravated the situation and SG-1 was ordered to reassemble, they go on the mission, they're stuck together with him as commander. Nobody complains.

Speak for yourself. (That was an out-of-universe comment. )

Which still doesn't show how that is a logical progression that does not ignore in-universe logic.

suse

[Ashizuri]

Yes. Yes, yes, and yes. I am reading your posts. Once again, it seems to me like we're on different wavelengths. I want to use in-universe arguments, you want to use out of universe arguments. I see that you have problems with the writers. What I'm trying to say is that it's not as much like a cop-out to have Mitchell as it seems.

I disagree and say that they did good. The 9th and 10th seasons had some of my favorite episodes of the series, and certainly some of the most thought provoking. Cam did some things that Jack didn't, or couldn't. (Partially because Jack was starting to get old.)

But see, in-universe, we understand it. We understand that everyone moved on and Mitchell came on the scene as the new leader of SG-1 and got Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c back into the fold. We get that he was the new leader. We didn't like it, thought it made for shoddy story telling and have no problems taking the writers to task for what we view as momumental mess-ups.

The things that happened "in-universe" were written by the writers (i tried to word that without making myself sound redundant and lame...i mean really, written by the writers?!?!)so I really don't see how you can discuss one without considering the other.

As for Mitchell being able to do things that Jack couldn't, I again point to the fact that in the previous 8 season, being able to get beaten up wasn't a prerequisite for leading man. Other than that, Jack can do anything Mitchell can do, and he can do it better. With more style.

The only thought seasons 9 and 10 provoked for me was to see what else was on.

[suse]

I disagree and say that they did good. The 9th and 10th seasons had some of my favorite episodes of the series, and certainly some of the most thought provoking. Cam did some things that Jack didn't, or couldn't. (Partially because Jack was starting to get old.)

Agreed about thought provoking. Disagree about the "did good" bit.

suse
more amused by the minute

[VSS]

Speaking of political correctness, why does there need to be a female lead when that would be completely unrealistic?

Ah. Finally the leopard shows his spots.

[Vladius]

But see, in-universe, we understand it. We understand that everyone moved on and Mitchell came on the scene as the new leader of SG-1 and got Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c back into the fold. We get that he was the new leader. We didn't like it, thought it made for shoddy story telling and have no problems taking the writers to task for what we view as momumental mess-ups.

The things that happened "in-universe" were written by the writers (i tried to word that without making myself sound redundant and lame...i mean really, written by the writers?!?!)so I really don't see how you can discuss one without considering the other.

As for Mitchell being able to do things that Jack couldn't, I again point to the fact that in the previous 8 season, being able to get beaten up wasn't a prerequisite for leading man. Other than that, Jack can do anything Mitchell can do, and he can do it better. With more style.

The only thought seasons 9 and 10 provoked for me was to see what else was on.

Redundant! Lame!



What would you have done differently with the "shoddy storytelling?" Developing Mitchell as some kind of side character would make it feel even cheaper than it is now.

[suse]

Please explain to be how "the male is needed to lead because the (mostly male) viewers will be more comfortable watching a male in that position" isn't a writing/out-of-universe argument.

suse

It is. I was fighting fire with fire.

So you can make comments like that and not really explain them because you were "fighting fire with fire" instead of just backing up how Mitchell made a good leader with examples.

Got it. /sarcasm

Speaking of political correctness, why does there need to be a female lead when that would be completely unrealistic?

Did you mean to say female leader? Because AT was "considered the series lead when Rick wasn't there" (a reasonable paraphrase from N. John Smith from a GateCon) before S9 happened. Yet as soon as the Full-Time LMAH was available...

And Sam leading is but a small component of why Mitchell doesn't work at leader. Several have pointed out ways he would have been acceptable as leader. Yet... they chose to not make Michell worthy of being team leader because they also wanted a wide-eyed enthusiastic guy. They tried to have other the whole egg and the same egg broekn and baked in the proverbial cake. Both can work if you have AUs but only one can work in-universe.

suse

[suse]

Redundant! Lame!



What would you have done differently with the "shoddy storytelling?"

Developing Mitchell as some kind of side character would make it feel even cheaper than it is now.

Please explain. With examples.

So all the others in the credits are "side characters"? Not what *I* saw in S10. Or in S9. Except maybe Sam and Teal'c.

suse

[Ashizuri]

Redundant! Lame!



What would you have done differently with the "shoddy storytelling?" Developing Mitchell as some kind of side character would make it feel even cheaper than it is now.

They could have retconned him into the SCG as a member of a different team who was promoted to SG-1 leader status, that would have given him the experience/training that a lot of us have a problem with him not having.

Or he could have been the "Major" Mitchell, the up and coming soldier poised on the edge of promotion, bringing something unique to the team.

Just a few random examples off the top of my head.

[suse]

They could have retconned him into the SCG as a member of a different team who was promoted to SG-1 leader status, that would have given him the experience/training that a lot of us have a problem with him not having.

Or he could have been the "Major" Mitchell, the up and coming soldier poised on the edge of promotion, bringing something unique to the team.

Just a few random examples off the top of my head.

And then the conversation loops back on itself, creating a complete circle.

<<iz dizzy>>

suse

[VSS]

I wonder if we should be feeding the trolls.

[suse]

<<awaits a reasoned response with examples of the worthiness of Mitchell to lead over a more experienced person>>

[Ashizuri]

And then the conversation loops back on itself, creating a complete circle.

<<iz dizzy>>

suse

I do feel like I said the same thing three pages ago.

<<awaits a reasoned response with examples of the worthiness of Mitchell to lead over a more experienced person>>

I get the feeling youll be waiting a while...

[KatG]

I've said this here before but I think AT's abscence for filming the first few epidose is probably the root cause of the most of the problems people have as it caused the writers to break up SG-1 to write her out for the first episodes.

Come to think of it, if they hadn't brought in Vala, they could have had Mitchell as the eager new recruit and a familar high ranker as temporary leader. (Dixon/Griff/Reynolds hell even Ferretti would be good) but of course then they would have an all male cast which I assume is a bit of PC no-no.

I agree that AT's absence was the root cause, but Sam's absence could have been written to have kept her as leader. Rather than a permanent assignment to Area 51, she could have been on temporary assignment due to some major project or she could have been MIA ala Daniel in "Line in the Sand" and "The Road Not Taken". If Sam was on temporary assignment, then Daniel and Teal'c could have been making their plans to go to Atlantis and Dakara during their downtime, if Sam was MIA, a temporary leader from another team could have been assigned with Mitchell as new guy in training. I would have no problem with an all male team under those circumstances.

...Jack can do anything Mitchell can do, and he can do it better. With more style.
.

Oh yes. He most definitely could. I'd green you for that, but apparently I like you to much to do so at the moment.

Redundant! Lame!



What would you have done differently with the "shoddy storytelling?" Developing Mitchell as some kind of side character would make it feel even cheaper than it is now.

Again the evidence seems to indicate that you're not reading our posts. But just in case you missed it I posted it again in this post and will requote it:

Rather than a permanent assignment to Area 51, Sam could have been on temporary assignment due to some major project or she could have been MIA ala Daniel in "Line in the Sand" and "The Road Not Taken". If Sam was on temporary assignment, then Daniel and Teal'c could have been making their plans to go to Atlantis and Dakara during their downtime, if Sam was MIA, a temporary leader from another team could have been assigned with Mitchell as new guy in training.