S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Alan]

I'm unable to green you all so I decided to make up that big block above for the thread because EVERYONE is saying things I totally and completely agree with regarding Seasons 9 and 10 and Mitchell and Vala! We're all definitely on the same page!

A few other things I like to add myself -

I really loathed all the obvious "We're SG-1. We're altogether"-esque scenes! One really obvious one that springs to mind is in S9's Beachhead where Sam comes back. They needed to get on to the Prometheus right? So why, oh why was it necessary for them to go through the Gate when the ship has perfectly good beaming technology? Answer...selfless self-promotion....the iconic walk up the ramp. Blurgh! And there were many more scenes like this across Seasons 9 and 10. I can't recall specifics because it's been so long since I've watched these two seasons but they are so very painfully obvious. More than once I wanted to shout at the screen "Yes! We know! They're the new SG-1 team! We get the message already!"

Another thing is Mitchell and just how easily he slipped in to the role of an SG team leader. The guy has spent his career behind the controls of jets and less than a year controlling an X-302 (I say "less than a year" because presumably he was at that pilots briefing (or one like it) in the Season 7 episode Fragile Balance) and zero off-world time...so how does any of that - in any way, shape or form - make him qualified to command an SG team on to alien worlds? The Russian Colonel in the Season 8 episode Lock Down wasn't allowed to join SG-1 because he had zero off-world time...so what gives? It just doesn't tally up.

I'd much rather pretend that Stargate SG-1 ended with Season 8...but that isn't very easy because, like it or not, Sam and Daniel and Teal'c did develop across these seasons so they do need to be acknowledged...unfortunately. Still...Jack's back in the next movie...the SG-1 team may not be made up of him, Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c any more but the main players are there and that's all that matters. The only way Movie III could go wrong is if they made Mitchell the hero...again. I liked Stargate: Continuum because it went back to the Season 1-8 roots...but it is still hard to watch because monotone hero Mitchell is there and clocking up more screen time (i.e. Mitchell's life in the alternate timeline...or lack of).

So...if the TPTB are reading...no more hero Mitchell saving the day and a little less concentration on Mitchell please.

[jckfan55]

There are moments when I actually like Mitchell. It's when he isn't being shoved down our throats as "the hero." SG1 has always been heroic (and I love that about them) but not in a comic book way. They just do heroic things without the show needing to point a big arrow at it and say "see? HERO!"

[dipsofjazz]

For me, it all went wrong with the opening scene of Avalon part 1...........and went downhill from there.

Transcript of opening scene:

SCENE: Open on Stargate at SGC, a man in dress blues walks up the ramp, looking it over.

TECH: Who's that? *scene moves to control room*

HARRIMAN: Lt. Colonel Cameron Mitchell, Two years ago. Dog fight over Antarctica, SG-1 found the ancient outpost took out Anubis' fleet.

TECH: That's him?

HARRIMAN: That's him.

I almost puked at the blatant hero-worship from Walter, a guy that has worked with the original team for many years, but was never seen to be in awe of them.

This was the beginning of the writers pushing the Mitchell character into our faces. Look how great he is.......Walter thinks he's wonderful, so everyone watching should think so too.

I agree with what everyone here has been saying, and I'm glad Alan presented you all with a large green, as you all deserve it.

[VSS]

I'd much rather pretend that Stargate SG-1 ended with Season 8...but that isn't very easy because, like it or not, Sam and Daniel and Teal'c did develop across these seasons so they do need to be acknowledged...unfortunately. Still...Jack's back in the next movie...the SG-1 team may not be made up of him, Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c any more but the main players are there and that's all that matters. The only way Movie III could go wrong is if they made Mitchell the hero...again. I liked Stargate: Continuum because it went back to the Season 1-8 roots...but it is still hard to watch because monotone hero Mitchell is there and clocking up more screen time (i.e. Mitchell's life in the alternate timeline...or lack of).

So...if the TPTB are reading...no more hero Mitchell saving the day and a little less concentration on Mitchell please.

Well, that's the nice thing about being a late fan to SG-1, it did end in season 8 for me with a few eps here and there that I have watched- probably a total of 6. You can probably guess which ones. But, I think you can rest assured about the third movie- Cam really was featured in Continuum, more than the others. Now, he'll be sidelined. The movies are not called Stargate SG-1, after all. BW can get the original four members together on an ad hoc basis without having to explain the composition of the team.

[GateGipsy]

Season 9 took a wee while to hit its stride, but I was pretty much hooked on S10 from the get go. It felt strong, had some great storylines and some excellent acting. Very powerful. I didn't ever see any manhandling - I can't see Vala ever letting anyone shove her around.

In the final episode there's a scene where Daniel is much harsher towards Vala than you'd expect from him, but that is because he thinks she's still playing games and clearly by now he has feelings for her so is particularly hurt at these games - until the penny drops and he realises she isn't still playing games. Vala can't have expected any other sort of reaction though, after the endless and merciless teasing she's given Daniel over the season.

I loved season 10. It made up for the yawn-fest that was Season 8 for me. As a fan of the show from its first screen, I was really happy it went out quite strongly.

[HPMom]

What they should have done with Cam was either not have him on at all (Reynolds,Davis or Lorne could have lead the team until Sam came back) or play up the idea or him being a rookie and way over his head. Have him stand in the background more and not hog all the scenes. It would have been more realistic for him to defer to the others on the team(not that TPTB cared about realisim in S9 and 10) and admit that he had a lot to learn. I think I would have respected the writers and actually liked and accepted Cam as a member of the team then. Instead, I resent the choices made and want him to go away.

I think the fans would have loved seeing Reynold, Davis or Lorne on the team. It would have been cool, you watched them get experience through the years and work hand in hand with SG1, earning a position on the team. If they were dead set on BB joining the team they could have made him a very experienced leader of another SG team. They could have done whatever they wanted, it was really dumb the way they did it. The thing that always kills me when I'm watching S9 and 10 is the intro. Cam is in so many scenes, like he's been on the team forever. Then just one or two shots of the other 3.

[EvenstarSRV]

Another thing is Mitchell and just how easily he slipped in to the role of an SG team leader. The guy has spent his career behind the controls of jets and less than a year controlling an X-302 (I say "less than a year" because presumably he was at that pilots briefing (or one like it) in the Season 7 episode Fragile Balance) and zero off-world time...so how does any of that - in any way, shape or form - make him qualified to command an SG team on to alien worlds? The Russian Colonel in the Season 8 episode Lock Down wasn't allowed to join SG-1 because he had zero off-world time...so what gives? It just doesn't tally up.

Yeah, being a top pilot doesn't quite translate into having the right training for leading a top field unit. And with it being just about a year since the Antarctica battle, I don't really see Mitchell having the time to recover from his injuries and getting ground ops training. I have a similar issue with the Sheppard character from Atlantis.

Season 9 took a wee while to hit its stride, but I was pretty much hooked on S10 from the get go. It felt strong, had some great storylines and some excellent acting. Very powerful. I didn't ever see any manhandling - I can't see Vala ever letting anyone shove her around.

With the way the character was introduced in Prometheus Bound, I didn't see Vala letting anyone shove around either. And yet she does let Daniel do that in at least Beachhead and Pegasus Project from what I can remember.

In the final episode there's a scene where Daniel is much harsher towards Vala than you'd expect from him, but that is because he thinks she's still playing games and clearly by now he has feelings for her so is particularly hurt at these games - until the penny drops and he realises she isn't still playing games. Vala can't have expected any other sort of reaction though, after the endless and merciless teasing she's given Daniel over the season.

For me, I didn't have much of a problem with Daniel's rant to Vala, it was a long time coming and she in part deserved it. What I didn't like was Daniel not giving Vala any time to recover from his reaction before he's kissing her to make it all better. To me, it showed their relationship beginning on very uneven footing with Daniel having the upper-hand/control, and I don't really see an independent, self-sufficient character like Vala tolerating a relationship like that.

[GateGipsy]

With the way the character was introduced in Prometheus Bound, I didn't see Vala letting anyone shove around either. And yet she does let Daniel do that in at least Beachhead and Pegasus Project from what I can remember.

Hmmm I'd have to watch those episodes again. I don't remember anything that struck me that way.

For me, I didn't have much of a problem with Daniel's rant to Vala, it was a long time coming and she in part deserved it. What I didn't like was Daniel not giving Vala any time to recover from his reaction before he's kissing her to make it all better. To me, it showed their relationship beginning on very uneven footing with Daniel having the upper-hand/control, and I don't really see an independent, self-sufficient character like Vala tolerating a relationship like that.

OK I don't get where you're coming from here at all. I think that if Vala was the sort of person who needed 'time to recover' that, er, actually I just can't see Vala as needing time to recover. If she did, then she'd have got that time; Daniel wouldn't have had much choice in the matter. Next time I watch that episode I'll see if I can watch that scene from your perspective but I gotta tell you, I just don't get it at the moment. I really don't read it that way. It just seemed to be a very passionate, very simple, declaration or expression of feeling, by both Daniel and Vala.

[silly sally]

Season 9 took a wee while to hit its stride, but I was pretty much hooked on S10 from the get go. It felt strong, had some great storylines and some excellent acting. Very powerful. I didn't ever see any manhandling - I can't see Vala ever letting anyone shove her around.

In the final episode there's a scene where Daniel is much harsher towards Vala than you'd expect from him, but that is because he thinks she's still playing games and clearly by now he has feelings for her so is particularly hurt at these games - until the penny drops and he realises she isn't still playing games. Vala can't have expected any other sort of reaction though, after the endless and merciless teasing she's given Daniel over the season.

I loved season 10. It made up for the yawn-fest that was Season 8 for me. As a fan of the show from its first screen, I was really happy it went out quite strongly.

LMFAO! Please compare the ratings between season 8 and season 10 before uttering such non-sense...

[GateGipsy]

As you can read, I said 'for me'. Please don't make it personal with someone just for holding an opinion. I don't say that your opinions are nonsense or rubbish or question your ability to comprehend English, no matter how justified I might feel such statements might be. It is a part of the forum that we treat other posters with respect.

I liked Season 10 and I enjoyed Season 10, and the majority of people I know here in the UK who watch the show felt the same way. For me it had a strong team feel, good stories and good story arcs.

[dipsofjazz]

I liked Season 10 and I enjoyed Season 10, and the majority of people I know here in the UK who watch the show felt the same way. For me it had a strong team feel, good stories and good story arcs.

It was the opposite for me. I felt there was very little team feeling, certainly none that didn't feel forced upon us. The basic story ideas may have been good, but I felt there were too many plot-holes or 'beaming away in the nick of time' moments. The Ori story arc, for me, was just one great big yawn.


By the way, adding the "the majority of people I know here in the UK who watch the show felt the same way" is a wee bit cheeky as we don't now how many people you are talking about. I could easily add my take on that quote by saying that most I know hated it, but I may only be talking about two out of three people. Hardly earth-shattering numbers.

[Crazedwraith]

Team moments? Such as Teal'c beating the snot out of them to go all kill bill? Yeah, they're real chummy.

[Ashizuri]

OK I don't get where you're coming from here at all. I think that if Vala was the sort of person who needed 'time to recover' that, er, actually I just can't see Vala as needing time to recover. If she did, then she'd have got that time; Daniel wouldn't have had much choice in the matter. Next time I watch that episode I'll see if I can watch that scene from your perspective but I gotta tell you, I just don't get it at the moment. I really don't read it that way. It just seemed to be a very passionate, very simple, declaration or expression of feeling, by both Daniel and Vala.

If a man, any man, even RDA who is the porky old man of my dreams , talked to me the way Daniel talked to Vala in Unending it would take a whole lot more than a "You better not be messing with me" and a kiss to make me get over being treated that way. I'd hope any woman with even a shred of respect for herself would think twice about anything with a man who told her he could never, ever imagine a real relationship with her in a million years and repeatedly dismissed her feelings in the harshest possible manner. That's not a decleration of feelings, that's a huge billboard of disrespect.

Vala is a fighter, a woman well-versed in protecting herself and for her to just sit there and take a verbal assault like that and then let Daniel go from "never in a million years" to "oh. how about right now" without even an apology. Um. No. Noooo. I'm not even a big fan of Vala and I was offended on her behalf. And then disgusted with her when she went with the "right now" option.

I didn't ever see any manhandling - I can't see Vala ever letting anyone shove her around.

She was certainly emotionally and verbally manhandled in Unending. It baffles and unnerves me that people take that as romantic.

[suse]

Wow! People got chatty all the sudden!

Vala, after she stopped sexually harassing every male in sight AND when she wasn't written as Pigtailed Space Bimbo Who Lost Quite A Few IQ Points When She Bunched Her Hair, I learned to like. In smallish doses. When someone returned her interest (Mitchell's friend in the otherwise horrible Bounty) she was even funny. Her interactions with Tomin were always spot on. Very moving. Kudos to Claudia.

Mitchell... I had sporadic nanoseconds when I liked the character. Usually when he wasn't 'leading' or telling Grandma stories. I know when I heard BB was coming on to play Major Mitchell (and yes, it was Major at first) I was excited. Not overjoyed, because even in Farscape his character wasn't my favorite - I really liked the secondary characters better than the leads - but ready to accept him. That lasted, oh 20 seconds into Avalon. I kept thinking it would get better after Sam was back. And when I realized that the character was meant to be team lead - in spite of his lack of qualifications and over someone who had already lead ... well, I wasn't happy.

Between a Farscape lead being 'added' to the cast AS the lead AND leader and another Farscape lead added for a story arc - but used so heavily it seemed she was the star - it really felt as if they were taking over. I *know* it wasn't the actors faults. I don't blame them.I blame...various others. They had all the subtlety of a sledgehammer. And the same results.

If they would have been added to the show instead of being strong-armed in I might have liked the characters. But

Then we have the Ori. Boring!! I was never a fan of the ascended. Used quite sparingly I didn't much care. I barely made it through the whole Ascended!Daniel dreck. I recognized it for the 'creative' way it was to get Daniel back and went on. But creating Bad!Guys out of them? No. Too much. To add insult to injury both series now revolved around the Ancients and the search for their tech. Oy.

S10 was better to me than S9. Though that's damning with faint praise.

suse

[suse]

Team moments? Such as Teal'c beating the snot out of them to go all kill bill? Yeah, they're real chummy.

I seem to remember Teal'c trying to hit/hitting Mitchell a few times. And not when they were sparring.

suse