S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Mandysg1]

Many of us who posted regularly in the AntiSeason 10 thread are long time members of the forum who understand why the changes were made. We respected the forum rules then, and we do now. Having said that, it is notable that in the efforts to "fix" the problem of hostility and intractability, implementing the CVS in this case has only created more of what it sought to prevent.

If this is not the best place for us, what is? It's not like we haven't already had the DVCKS debate. Would it be permissible to start a discussion thread on continuity issues in season 10 (or seasons 9 and 10)? It's certainly a topic many of us have shown we can discuss civilly, and it should fall within CVS guidelines.

But that's what we do here, I don't see the need for a new discussion thread, we cover all topics from s9, 10 and others that get critiqued. We wouldn't want a discussion thread, for each subject we critique. And if people want to discuss how much they love s9 and 10 they have the S10: nostalgia, new viewers & the progression of SG1 thread (boy that's a mouthful )

[HPMom]

Yes it does. And that's the major problem that many people have with S9/S10. Continuity was thrown out the window.

I agree with you, it upset me the way they handled certain things in S9and10.

[scifithinker]

But that's what we do here, I don't see the need for a new discussion thread, we cover all topics from s9, 10 and others that get critiqued. We wouldn't want a discussion thread, for each subject we critique. And if people want to discuss how much they love s9 and 10 they have the S10: nostalgia, new viewers & the progression of SG1 thread (boy that's a mouthful )

Do they really? I had no idea.

Lately, it doesn't seem like this had been anything more than a place to rehash old arguments. The only reason I suggested continuity as a topic is because it best sums up what we have discussed in the past without having the negative cast of a word like anti.

You're right that there doesn't need to be a new thread for each topic. It would just be nice to have one with a little less hostility.

[jckfan55]

Just to clarify, I never meant to imply that this wasn't the place for you and those who don't like S9/S10, I was talking about this not being the place for those who liked S9/S10 and didn't want to see critique of it and because of that get upset when you and others who were disillusioned with S9/S10 post your thoughts and feelings on the matter.

I followed you on the first post. Thanks for checking in.

On another note, I think the issue of continuity is a good one. What are some of the specific ways that you guys here found continuity of characters to have gone out the window in S9 &10? (That should keep us busy for a while. )

[hisg1fans]

For me, I found it odd that Mitchell had more contact with the Sodan than Teal'c. I would've thought the roles would be reversed. Teal'c spending more time with them, learning how their culture diverged from the rest of the Jaff instead of Mitchell spending more time. Especially after all of the time Teal'c spent getting the Jaffa Nation going.

[Mandysg1]

For me, I found it odd that Mitchell had more contact with the Sodan than Teal'c. I would've thought the roles would be reversed. Teal'c spending more time with them, learning how their culture diverged from the rest of the Jaff instead of Mitchell spending more time. Especially after all of the time Teal'c spent getting the Jaffa Nation going.

Good example, esp since the episode was supposed to be a Teal'c episode, but as to what happened from conception to the final product, I doubt we'll ever know. But it looks like an example of trying to fit Cam in (square peg) where he didn't belong (round hole).

Another lack of continuity, was lack of Jack. Not him on the show, but the characters never mentioning him. When Daniel died, in the opening of S6 they were still mourning and mentioning him. Jack had been with Sam, Daniel and Teal'c for 8 years (1 less for Daniel) and they never mention him

[ShardsofGlass]

As I recall, Mitchell hadn't gotten a single episode about him since he was introduced until Babylon. Almost half the season went by with him being in the background. If they switch a Teal'c episode to give Mitchell one, then good for them. You can't ignore a brand new character that long. It just makes it harder for him to fit in with fans. How can people get to know a character if he or she never gets featured?

I've seen enough Teal'c eps about fighting and the Jaffa and all that. I think it was an interesting character ep for Mitchell and helped him bond with Teal'c in later eps. Plus it helped reinforce/establish his gung ho fighter traits.

[Melora]

As I recall, Mitchell hadn't gotten a single episode about him since he was introduced until Babylon. Almost half the season went by with him being in the background. If they switch a Teal'c episode to give Mitchell one, then good for them. You can't ignore a brand new character that long. It just makes it harder for him to fit in with fans. How can people get to know a character if he or she never gets featured?

I've seen enough Teal'c eps about fighting and the Jaffa and all that. I think it was an interesting character ep for Mitchell and helped him bond with Teal'c in later eps. Plus it helped reinforce/establish his gung ho fighter traits.

I agree to a certain extent. One of the many things that irritated me about the beginning of Season 9 was the lack of character development for Cam after Avalon Pt. 1. I was really excited about Ben being on the show and although I had problems with the way Cam was introduced, I still believed they needed to spend more time and effort establishing the character.

However, I think waiting until Babylon was too little, too late. They needed to have a more Cam-centric episode within the first few eps. Instead, they decided to focus almost exclusively on the Ori, Vala, and Daniel. I know they wanted to set up the new bad guys and new big story arc, but they needed to take more time to develop all of the characters as well. Unfortunately for most of the first few eps, Cam really felt almost like a tag-a-long. If Ben was supposed to be the new star of the show and Cam the new leader of the team, the writers needed to do a better job setting up the character in the first three or four eps.

And I didn’t feel we learned much about Cam in Babylon. We learned that he has strength and perseverance and that he can take care of himself on his own, but we had already learned that from Avalon Pt.1. It would have been nice to see another aspect of the character. I also think it would have been nice if he had been stuck with one of the other team members. That way they would have been able to establish a growing bond between Cam and at least one of the other characters. So often in Season 9, Cam seemed to be off on his own. It wasn’t really until the second half of the season that we got to see more of his relationship with Sam especially, but we didn’t get much of that in the first half. That bond between all of the characters was something that was really missing for me.

So I agree that Cam really needed his own focus-episode. I just don't think Babylon did the job all that well.

[HPMom]

On another note, I think the issue of continuity is a good one. What are some of the specific ways that you guys here found continuity of characters to have gone out the window in S9 &10? (That should keep us busy for a while. )

I thought Sam just seemed to be along for the ride. Between them trying to fit Cam in and give him a personality and Daniel and Vala bickering like school children that Sam's character got a bit side lined. Plus in some of the episodes they made Daniel really juvenile. In the past Jack and Daniel would spar, but not to the point Daniel did in season 9 and 10. I think the humorous/seriousness is a balancing act on the show, go too much in one direction and it doesn't work. In S9 & 10 they went way too much to the humorous side.

The thing that bothered me the most was Vala joining the team. SG1 is an elite team that has the best, the smartest and the brightest. Then they put a criminal on the team. Can you imagine how other people at SGC felt aspiring to join SG1, working hard, going above and beyond and then who do they add, someone who stole one of their ships, put the entire crew at risk and did it all for selfish reasons.

[KatG]

I thought Sam just seemed to be along for the ride. Between them trying to fit Cam in and give him a personality and Daniel and Vala bickering like school children that Sam's character got a bit side lined. Plus in some of the episodes they made Daniel really juvenile. In the past Jack and Daniel would spar, but not to the point Daniel did in season 9 and 10. I think the humorous/seriousness is a balancing act on the show, go too much in one direction and it doesn't work. In S9 & 10 they went way too much to the humorous side.

The thing that bothered me the most was Vala joining the team. SG1 is an elite team that has the best, the smartest and the brightest. Then they put a criminal on the team. Can you imagine how other people at SGC felt aspiring to join SG1, working hard, going above and beyond and then who do they add, someone who stole one of their ships, put the entire crew at risk and did it all for selfish reasons.

That's a very good point about letting Vala join SG-1. And it's a point of contention I have with Cam leading SG-1. With Sam gone, there should have been plenty of people to choose from to lead SG-1, I mean we've got what at least 17 teams if not more. Why not bring in Reynolds or Dixon as leader? Let Cam work with them, learn the ropes. Or since they both already have their teams, why not bring in anyone who had been going through the gate for awhile, even make Cam one of those people instead. It just wasn't right and didn't fit with what we had already seen as the standard for placing people on SG-1.

[HPMom]

That's a very good point about letting Vala join SG-1. And it's a point of contention I have with Cam leading SG-1. With Sam gone, there should have been plenty of people to choose from to lead SG-1, I mean we've got what at least 17 teams if not more. Why not bring in Reynolds or Dixon as leader? Let Cam work with them, learn the ropes. Or since they both already have their teams, why not bring in anyone who had been going through the gate for awhile, even make Cam one of those people instead. It just wasn't right and didn't fit with what we had already seen as the standard for placing people on SG-1.

You're so right! Wasn't there even a point in season 6 where someone wanting the join SG1 was listing all their qualifications and Jack mentioned something to the effect of no matter how many qualifications they had that they didn't have any SG experience and they would need that before they were ready for SG1. And not only did they make Cam a member of SG1 before he had any SG experience, he lead the team! A completely inexperienced SG person leading the flagship team of the program! That's just silly.

[KatG]

You're so right! Wasn't there even a point in season 6 where someone wanting the join SG1 was listing all their qualifications and Jack mentioned something to the effect of no matter how many qualifications they had that they didn't have any SG experience and they would need that before they were ready for SG1. And not only did they make Cam a member of SG1 before he had any SG experience, he lead the team! A completely inexperienced SG person leading the flagship team of the program! That's just silly.

Actually, it was S8, with Jack as General and the Russian Colonel that was taken over by Anubis. Jack wouldn't even let him go through the gate until he had gone through training and even then, wasn't willing to let him join SG-1 with no gate experience and this was when SG-1 was still a three man team.

[ShardsofGlass]

OMG! How many times are people here going to discuss this topic (about Cam being qualified to lead or not)? Seriously, isn't it time to drop it? Hasn't every single angle been discussed ad infinitim for the last 4 years? No one's going to change their mind at this stage. What's the point?

Plus, don't the new guidelines for GW say we should express our negative opinions and then MOVE ON?!

[TameFarrar]

OMG! How many times are people here going to discuss this topic (about Cam being qualified to lead or not)? Seriously, isn't it time to drop it? Hasn't every single angle been discussed ad infinitim for the last 4 years? No one's going to change their mind at this stage. What's the point?

Plus, don't the new guidelines for GW say we should express our negative opinions and then MOVE ON?!

Shards, if folks want to discuss this particular aspect of the show as something that bothers them they are more then welcome to. just as you are welcome to scroll past their posts.

The fact that you are not interested in that aspect of the discussion does not mean others aren't. Something all members know when entering a *Critique & Contemplation* thread is there will be opinions and discussions that they will not agree with. No one is forcing you to read or respond to those discussions nor is anyone stopping you from skipping over those discussions.

In regards to your statement about express our negative opinions and then MOVE ON, this is true to the extent that if a member is just posting the same thing over and over and over ad nauseum. It does not apply to folks having a dedicated and/or civil discussion regarding the subject.

[ShardsofGlass]

But how do you tell the difference? I've seen people here post the same arguments, the same tired complaints over and over and over for year after year after year. Tell me how this is okay. And it's not just the Mitchell thing I complained about. I see with other things too. At what point have these arguments been done to death?