S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

i think it'll be okay, if i look at it like i do dr who

i don't care about plot holes or cliches or prdicitbility. I just shut off my brain and watch. And that's what the franchise has become now, mindless.

in the 'good old days' it used to be intelligent and smart and witty and would make you think. Now it's just cliche of the week boosted by whichever actress they can get to run around half clad and which guest stars can throw themselves at 'teh hewo'

the franchise, as a whole, has dumbed itself down to mediocrity

[silly sally]

i think it'll be okay, if i look at it like i do dr who

i don't care about plot holes or cliches or prdicitbility. I just shut off my brain and watch. And that's what the franchise has become now, mindless.

in the 'good old days' it used to be intelligent and smart and witty and would make you think. Now it's just cliche of the week boosted by whichever actress they can get to run around half clad and which guest stars can throw themselves at 'teh hewo'

the franchise, as a whole, has dumbed itself down to mediocrity

And, so but, therefore? Judging by AoT people love mediocrity, who are we to judge what TPTB do as long as it turns a nice hefty profit for them and MGM? As I said, unfortunately people love mediocrity, just look at the success all reality TV shows have

[Jackie]

it's not that they're focused on how wonderful of a job they're doing...it's that they refuse to accept it when folks say 'umm, not quite'

i'm all for being confident about your work. And you can't listen to every single nay-sayer. but then 2 years of steadily falling ratings and increasing fan complaints have to mean something...and something more than 'those dang fans that won't accept change'

That statement reflects a lot about what is going on in stargate as a whole. Perhaps they are over confident and have gone past the point of writing for their audience and now write solely for themselves.

I find that most really talented writers, artist, ect...usually don't like their own work.

To be honest, even though I try much harder on my own stuff than fan fiction, I still think everything I write is crap. (so much so that I keep starting over.) Occasionally I get fan fic nominations, all of which I pass on, I don't think any of what I write is good enough for a competition.

I wouldn't say it's a self esteem issue cause there are things that I really do like that other's hate. More of a taste issue. But, when I write something that just about bores me to tears...others like it! So, I have learned to write for others and not for me, if I want to have a snowball's chance in hell, at getting something out of my computer and onto paper.

I'm certainly not looking forward to the new show, seeing as what they done in the past. I'll give it a try, but I won't be 'loyal' to it and feel I have to watch it, if I don't like it.

You're braver than me. I don't think I will even bother.

Whenever I see an old SG-1 ep and then think of how the series ended, my heart just sinks in despair. It's like looking at a picture of an old deceased friend and having the painful memory of how they slowly, painfully died.

Whatever the current tptb come out with will still pale in comparison to the SG-1 that I once loved to watch and invited into my home ever week to spend time with.

Now it's just cliche of the week boosted by whichever actress they can get to run around half clad and which guest stars can throw themselves at 'teh hewo'

the franchise, as a whole, has dumbed itself down to mediocrity

A mere shadow of what it once had.

Even SGA has been effected by the trend of bad short sighted decisions. Badly handled change of characters, recycled plots, plot holes, characters doing things out of character. All elementary issues that really shouldn't be in a professional setting.

SGU...sounds like a cliché to begin with. Nothing original in the show's plot proposal. No real intresting ideas or situations. Just another sci-fi show about a space ship...but this time with a gate. Ya know, I wrote a really bad fan fic based on that theme a few years back. The biggest issue was having a ship that was too big, too powerful and relied on too much by the characters. I took the ship to the center of the universe, before I figured out there is no center to the universe, and just ran out of ideas.

My projections for SGU:

female captain of the ship who clashes with the hip, young male who runs the gate and doubles as a "mitchell type" fighter pilot.

The ship will have new and improved "jumpers" that look really cool and are fighter craft. (not sure how tptb will get around the need for fighter craft on an automated ship) maybe the fighter craft all cruise control.

The ship will be huge and can house a Earth made 304 in it's cargo hold.

Of course the interior decor will be gwady, and yet spooky all at the same time.

Characters:

-female ship's captain who is no nonsense and by the book.

-male lead who can do every job on the ship. Is in charge of the "off world" teams that go through the gate and leads his own team on top of that. He also is a crack fighter pilot and is a chick magnet. (Sheppard basically)

-mckay type scientist that is female.

-big bad alien robot...just grunts or says "indeed" a lot.

-female fighter pilot who is very much like starbuck of BSG

-navy personnel instead of airforce

-a chevron guy of some sort.

-same old plots...but with more space ship battles.

[silly sally]

I don't get how come no one realizes that SG-Universe=Atlantis in space (if Atlantis gets 3 ZPMs she can fly) Do TPTB think we're stupid or something?
What I would have loved for the 3rd series is more exploration of alternate realities, maybe even some alternate reality baddies!

[Silverwings]

I keep wishing that SGAtlantis would explore... Atlantis. *shrug*

[jckfan55]

I keep wishing that SGAtlantis would explore... Atlantis. *shrug*

Waht a novel concept.

[Jackie]

I keep wishing that SGAtlantis would explore... Atlantis. *shrug*

Waht a novel concept.

But what about the gate?

Oh, wait...they hardly use that in a plot either. Nothing but a wall decoration now.

Could have seen the next series coming when tptb started introducing the space ships that only takes earth a year and half to build. LOL.

So, tptb took the Deadelus and placed a gate on it...viola...SGU!

Mods...can we have an anti-SGU thread?

[Skydiver]

no

[Gregorius]

Not sure why I didn't see this post earlier. Yes, yes and sadly yes.

I've been saying that for a long, long time now.

I wouldn't say so, if you take my "people lie to conform to stereotype" into account. Most sci-fi fans seem to revel in being different, so honesty in their interests should be more forthcoming.
Of course, that wouldn't stop them from lying in order to make themselves more interesting, because they're, like, totally random and out there!

Problem is that there really is no SciFi stereotype besides the teenage male who's socially awkward and lives in his parents' basement. Plus the moment you try to make a series mainstream a lot of potential viewers won't even consider it as they feel mainsteam wrecks series.

me neither. What i see happening for universe is a weekly 'mst3k' event...likely enjoyed with a tall cold glass of booze to help me accept the sheer silliness as we play count the cliche and debate which old episode they're reusing

"Mst3k"? Also, it would make for a perfect shot game: Take a shot whenever you spot a cliché or guess which episode is used.

I keep wishing that SGAtlantis would explore... Atlantis. *shrug*

Explore Atlantis? If they did that they wouldn't be able to cast the bimbo of the week and it would create cannon which can contradict their Deus ex Machina solutions when those are needed. The expedition might discover a ZPM facility and suddenly all the "We must find ZPMs" plots are useless. And think of all those new sets they'd have to create... That money is much better spend on Xplosions and lots of SFX everywhere!

Even SGA has been effected by the trend of bad short sighted decisions. Badly handled change of characters, recycled plots, plot holes, characters doing things out of character. All elementary issues that really shouldn't be in a professional setting.

And don't forget "Silly or downright stupid plots".

Anyway, aren't JMS or JW (Or perhaps even Manny Coto) free and won't RTD be free in 2010? Perhaps one of those can revitalize the Stargate Franchise...

As for Stargate Universe: The show is called Stargate and not Star TrekGate.

I really wish they'd stop using all those ships, they're ruining the show and their designs make the engineer in me cry. If they want to use ships they should take a note from the B5 book and start introducing classes of ships...

Anyway, I find the entire concept horrible as it's so cliché. I'd much rather see Stargate: NID, where we follow the exploits of a rogue SG team on the run from the SGC. It would make for a for more interesting concept.

[Gregorius]

Could have seen the next series coming when tptb started introducing the space ships that only takes earth a year and half to build. LOL.

1.5 years is possible if they perfected the mass production, got all hardware certified, finished all tests (Fun fact from the aviation industry: If a plane goes into service certain tests like stress tests are still being performed because they take a lot of time) and managed to get a lot of money.

Furthermore, I don't quite get how they could've tested a ship on Earth without anyone finding it out... Also It makes far more sense to assemble and test a ship at the Alpha site than do that on Earth where you need to keep everything a secret.

Not to mention that they've been barely 10 years into the galactic game and already they can reverse engineer nearly everything, interface with nearly everything and build ships with lightning speed.

I wonder, though, when they've begon designing the ships as in the aerospace industries the typical period from planning to launch is about 5 ~ 10 years if not more. Not to mention the redesigns if calculations and tests proof that certain things won't work.

[Jackie]

no

it never hurts to try...

how about bribery?

Explore Atlantis? If they did that they wouldn't be able to cast the bimbo of the week and it would create cannon which can contradict their Deus ex Machina solutions when those are needed. The expedition might discover a ZPM facility and suddenly all the "We must find ZPMs" plots are useless. And think of all those new sets they'd have to create... That money is much better spend on Xplosions and lots of SFX everywhere!


Anyway, aren't JMS or JW (Or perhaps even Manny Coto) free and won't RTD be free in 2010? Perhaps one of those can revitalize the Stargate Franchise...

As for Stargate Universe: The show is called Stargate and not Star TrekGate.

I really wish they'd stop using all those ships, they're ruining the show and their designs make the engineer in me cry. If they want to use ships they should take a note from the B5 book and start introducing classes of ships...

Anyway, I find the entire concept horrible as it's so cliché. I'd much rather see Stargate: NID, where we follow the exploits of a rogue SG team on the run from the SGC. It would make for a for more interesting concept.

Stargate NID would be more interesting. Even Stargate CSI.

While we're on spin offs:

LOL...How about "Stargate Survivor" where the program goes public and 12 people try to out do each other trying to get one of 4 open positions for the next SG-1.

If all else fails tptb could do "Stargate Idol" where a talent show competition dictates the next great team...

1.5 years is possible if they perfected the mass production, got all hardware certified, finished all tests (Fun fact from the aviation industry: If a plane goes into service certain tests like stress tests are still being performed because they take a lot of time) and managed to get a lot of money.

Furthermore, I don't quite get how they could've tested a ship on Earth without anyone finding it out... Also It makes far more sense to assemble and test a ship at the Alpha site than do that on Earth where you need to keep everything a secret.

Not to mention that they've been barely 10 years into the galactic game and already they can reverse engineer nearly everything, interface with nearly everything and build ships with lightning speed.

I wonder, though, when they've begon designing the ships as in the aerospace industries the typical period from planning to launch is about 5 ~ 10 years if not more. Not to mention the redesigns if calculations and tests proof that certain things won't work.

Add to the above mentioned:

I'm still trying to figure out how such mass production could be possible on a vessel that makes our super carriers look like toys when the construction of a super carrier...in modern times...is 5 years.

Breaking the earth's gravitational pull on a vessel that large. Explaining how they got artificial gravity, explaining how the drive system works and how the launch and recovery systems of the fighters.

It's like tptb just sat down and pulled out every star trek concept they could think of and then put it in stargate.

the only things stargate and star trek had in common in the beginning was the "star" in the title. In the end...it's like Kirk is running the program, is also the leading male and the only thing missing is Mr. Spock.

[Gregorius]

it never hurts to try...

Would be a Stargate first, asking for a show to be canned before it's even developed.

Stargate NID would be more interesting. Even Stargate CSI.

Stargate: Mythbusters - Each week a new myth will be tested.
Stargate: The Next Generation - Set 100 years into the future.

I'm still trying to figure out how such mass production could be possible on a vessel that makes our super carriers look like toys when the construction of a super carrier...in modern times...is 5 years.

Same here. I guess they'll explain it away with some Goa'uld/Ancient/Asgard technology aiding them.

And not to mention the logistics of such an operation.

Breaking the earth's gravitational pull on a vessel that large. Explaining how they got artificial gravity, explaining how the drive system works and how the launch and recovery systems of the fighters.

I'd like to know why the ship was designed as a sea vessel and not as a submarine which would make far more sense (What's with the obsession to have windows on the bridge, it's pointless and makes the bridge weaker by exposing it). The slender design of a submarine makes more sense for a battlecruise as it limits the surface area which an enemy can hit.

Also, where are the engines up front to deccelerate the ship? I know it's SciFi but even in SciFi the laws of Newton are valid. And why are the engines on back always on? If you reach your required speed you don't need to keep the engines on as there is no drag to slow you down.

Why are airforce commanders in charge of the ships when submarine commanders make far more sense when it comes to experience (Submarines also fight in 3D, are frequently isoleted from the rest of the world, etc..). And why are the crew Air Force people and not submarine crews?

the only things stargate and star trek had in common in the beginning was the "star" in the title. In the end...it's like Kirk is running the program, is also the leading male and the only thing missing is Mr. Spock.

I'd say McKay's Spock.

[Jackie]

Stargate: Mythbusters - Each week a new myth will be tested.
Stargate: The Next Generation - Set 100 years into the future.

I'd like to know why the ship was designed as a sea vessel and not as a submarine which would make far more sense (What's with the obsession to have windows on the bridge, it's pointless and makes the bridge weaker by exposing it). The slender design of a submarine makes more sense for a battlecruise as it limits the surface area which an enemy can hit.

Also, where are the engines up front to deccelerate the ship? I know it's SciFi but even in SciFi the laws of Newton are valid. And why are the engines on back always on? If you reach your required speed you don't need to keep the engines on as there is no drag to slow you down.

Stargate: Mythbusters...LOL...I can see Sheppard and McKay testing the laws of physics.

Ships design: Yes!!!!

I have the same issue. And I should also thank you...see, I'm using a sub design for my own spaceship in my own work...and I forgot all about forward thrusters. Need to tack them on someplace. The sub design I'm using is ww2 design, but much bigger. I went with ww2 design so I would be able to use the underbelly of the sub as an area to place the rocket boosters. Goes up like a rocket and lands in water. In my story the navy finds the "sub" spaceship in the bottom of pearl harbor after the attack.

Anyways, every issue you just brought up, I had been struggling with in generic sci-fi formula.

Why is the airforce in charge of the vessel? What about international policy? who would maintain this vessel, ect?

When I started researching vessel types for my own work, I came to the conclusion that a sub design would be more practical, but one must incorporate angle of descent and heat friction upon re-entry. I took care of that problem by placing rockets on the underbelly to make the bottom of the ship the needed shape for re-entry. ( a modern sub wouldn't have that problem due to it's shape) The rockets stay on the ship and I am using a mythical fuel that last longer and give more thrust for breaking the gravitational pull. I'm also using warp drive theory combined with cosmic string theory to make the warp drive work.

I can't stand the approach that sci-fi takes with science fiction. The writers don't understand how the technology would work, so intro inaccurate techno-babel and have Rodney speak super fast so we miss it.

I would much rather tptb used simpler theories of technology than bury us in babel.

I also found how to address artificial gravity. Centrifuge! The gravitational force placed on a body rotating at so many revolutions per minute could counter the effects of weightlessness suffered from long term exposer.

Most sci-fi show have artificial gravity as means of explaining why the actors are not floating but I think floating makes it more authentic.

[Silverwings]

Maybe I'm not thinking straight, but aren't Star Trek ranks Naval? Also, with all the talk of submarines, I can't help but think of the design of Enterprise. I couldn't stand the show, but their design ethic was based on subs, from what I've read. Edited to add: Aren't Ancient cruisers fairly submarine shaped? Yes, that's an SGA concern, but they debuted around S10 of SG-1.

As for the 30whatevers of the Stargate universe, I've always just thought of them as a riff on Starcraft Battlecruisers, design-wise.

Besides, the Borg have the best idea for interstellar craft; the sphere ships. Yes, there's no real concern for aerodynamics, but with the spheres and decentralized processing (and no "shoot me" bridge), they were very efficient and tactical.

[Gregorius]

I have the same issue. And I should also thank you...see, I'm using a sub design for my own spaceship in my own work...and I forgot all about forward thrusters. Need to tack them on someplace. The sub design I'm using is ww2 design, but much bigger. I went with ww2 design so I would be able to use the underbelly of the sub as an area to place the rocket boosters. Goes up like a rocket and lands in water. In my story the navy finds the "sub" spaceship in the bottom of pearl harbor after the attack.

Well, you don't need forward thrusters if you've got side thrusters allowing you to make a 180 degree turn along the z-axis so you can use the main thrusters to slow down.

Got a pic. of the WW2 design as there are multiple designs and I'm curious as to which one you used?

Also, my comments were direct at a space-only craft. If you want it to be capable of re-entry a lot more variables need to be taken into account, including heat shields, parachutes, aerodynamics, etc..

Why is the airforce in charge of the vessel? What about international policy? who would maintain this vessel, ect?

I find it amusing that a colonel is in charge of a ship. Only in SG that's the case, all the others use a variation on navy ranks.

When I started researching vessel types for my own work, I came to the conclusion that a sub design would be more practical, but one must incorporate angle of descent and heat friction upon re-entry. I took care of that problem by placing rockets on the underbelly to make the bottom of the ship the needed shape for re-entry. ( a modern sub wouldn't have that problem due to it's shape)

You took into account that during re-entry speeds around mach 20 are reached which creates a lot of friction and free oxigen radicals which cause a lot of damage?

The rockets stay on the ship and I am using a mythical fuel that last longer and give more thrust for breaking the gravitational pull.

I believe nuclear propulsion fits that category.

I can't stand the approach that sci-fi takes with science fiction. The writers don't understand how the technology would work, so intro inaccurate techno-babel and have Rodney speak super fast so we miss it.

That's the difference between hardcore SciFi and mainstream. I'd say B5 did a good job on it though.

I also found how to address artificial gravity. Centrifuge! The gravitational force placed on a body rotating at so many revolutions per minute could counter the effects of weightlessness suffered from long term exposer.

Centrifugal force. Keep in mind this'll require that the floors in your ship are curved upwards and that the the force excerted is perpendicular to the axis of rotation.

Most sci-fi show have artificial gravity as means of explaining why the actors are not floating but I think floating makes it more authentic.

Try simulating floating realisticly on Earth.