S10: nostalgia, new viewers & the progression of SG1

[Callista]

You mean there's an end to homework? So far, I haven't found it. Maybe that's because I have evil profs.

Enjoy the homework. Some day there may be tiny little people keeping you from watching SG-1

I must say I agree with the people saying that Cam is really likable. My daughter put "Ripple Effect" in the machine last night and he's just really fun to watch. Leaning away from the naked Asgard, trying to talk up the Sodan moves he's been practicing after Teal'c completely flattened him with no more than an arm held out, getting alternate Daniel's coffee just the way he likes it, etc. I had to laugh about the alternate Sams talking to each other and being all business while the alternate Mitchells just sit around re-hashing silly old family memories....even though one of them is about to totally stick it to the other one.

It made me wonder what the alternate Teal'cs and Daniels would have talked about. Would the Teal'cs have just stared each other down? Would the alternate Daniel have been able to hold out on our Daniel if they got to talking? (It seemed like the alternate Daniel was the only one who felt even a tiny bit bad about what they were doing.)

[amconway]

It made me wonder what the alternate Teal'cs and Daniels would have talked about. Would the Teal'cs have just stared each other down? Would the alternate Daniel have been able to hold out on our Daniel if they got to talking? (It seemed like the alternate Daniel was the only one who felt even a tiny bit bad about what they were doing.)

What a great thought! Now you have me wondering... I think you're right about the Teal'cs. They wouldn't say doodly to each other. The Daniels, though, that's interesting. I can see Alt-Daniel avoiding Real-Daniel entirely, not just because it would be hard to lie to him, but because Real-Daniel would know that he was lying. Alt-Daniel must have felt that he needed to do what he was doing, or he wouldn't have gone along with it, but being Daniel, he probably didn't feel good about it.

[madaboutdanny]

Read this, all the cut scenes from Ripple Effect. I liked RE but I think it could be a better ep with them.

http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/making/913.shtml

[amconway]

Read this, all the cut scenes from Ripple Effect. I liked RE but I think it could be a better ep with them.

I never saw that! Thanks for pointing it out. It's really a shame that the scene between 'black' Daniel and 'black' Mitchell had to be cut. It was very important to the character.

[the fifth man]

I never saw that! Thanks for pointing it out. It's really a shame that the scene between 'black' Daniel and 'black' Mitchell had to be cut. It was very important to the character.

I couldn't agree more. It is a real shame what ends up on the cutting room floor sometimes.

[Amaunet]

The character scenes always go first

[Iawen]

Hi, everyone! I'm a little behind in this thread--I can see I've missed a lot of great discussion!!

Well, as much as I have always loved Jack, I didn't really miss him (I know, that statement is fandom heresy. But it's true, so deal with it). So I didn't have that to get over. I will admit, that the first half of season 9 was pretty touch and go for me... I still wasn't sure if I was going to like it. But I tried to have an open mind and once I stopped coming online to see what other fans thought (I was a lurker back then), I really warmed up to it. So by mid-season 9, I was convinced I would like it. And honestly, season 10 was better IMO.

I do think they're both very re-watchable seasons. With a few exceptions, most of the episodes have a nice pace and plenty of quick dialogue exchanges, humor, etc. And I think it helps to watch them (especially season 9) with some distance. If you were online at the time, there was so much negativity going around about Ben Browder and RDA leaving that it was hard to take the episodes at face value and evaluate them on their own. Personally, I usually find that my second viewing of an episode is more objective anyway because it's not hampered by expectations.

After season 10 ended, I did some serious rewatching of both S9 and S10 when the S10 DVDs came out) and I found that things that hadn't made sense to me before, especially character moments with Cam and Vala, suddenly made sense. Especially in Cam's case. Those first few episodes I didn't really "get" Cam, but when I re-watched, I could definitely see what BB was trying to do and the growth that the character experienced. I honestly believe that Browder's portrayal of Cam was much more subtle and complex than most fans give him credit for, but I never would have noticed without re-watching those two seasons.

I never saw Stargate when it was airing, so I only have the DVD experience when it comes to the show, so on some points I can't really say if I agree or disagree... but I thought Cam's introduction into the show was great. Jack has always been and will always be one of my favorite characters, but the change between season eight and season nine was just about as seamless as a it can possibly get, IMHO. I also liked Landry's introduction--that he was new but not brand brand new and was still settling in. I don't like that people hold it against Cam or BB that he replaced Jack, because it was RDA's decision to leave, and neither Cam nor BB are at fault for that decision.

Frankly, I don't understand how anyone could not like Cam. He's the nicest guy on the planet.

I completely agree. I adore Cam. I love how much respect he had for SG-1 coming into and that he wanted to learn from them and was excited to be able to work alongside them. I think that went a long way for his character, and it was a little different as well for a military character in the Stargate franchise, and I found it refreshing.

[Khentkawes]

I never saw Stargate when it was airing, so I only have the DVD experience when it comes to the show, so on some points I can't really say if I agree or disagree... but I thought Cam's introduction into the show was great. Jack has always been and will always be one of my favorite characters, but the change between season eight and season nine was just about as seamless as a it can possibly get, IMHO. I also liked Landry's introduction--that he was new but not brand brand new and was still settling in.

I'm not sure I would call the transition between seasons 8 and 9 "seamless." I watched the show as it aired, starting sometime in season 7, so when season 9 came around, we all knew there would be changes, but I wasn't prepared for the "what the frell?" feeling I had. But what shocked me wasn't Cam's introduction or Landry's introduction or anything like that. It was the essential disbandment of SG-1. I wasn't expecting everyone to go on their separate ways, so it kinda felt like a punch in the gut. I remember thinking "What, no SG-1? How could that happen?" And this is probably one criticism that I have: I don't think Jack leaving the SGC should have necessitated the break up of SG-1. With that said, Teal'c, at least, had a strong reason to leave. Daniel too, to some extent.

In retrospect though, despite the disoriented feeling I had at the beginning of season 9, I think it was a great choice. I think it put people off because the changes made them feel nostalgic for the "original" and "classic" SG-1. And all the people who had viewed SG-1 as a close-knit family felt like that family was just destroyed. However, I think that it was a brilliant writing move. Because in reality, change is a constant in life. People move on, take new jobs, priorities change. And it was time for SG-1 to acknowledge that change is necessary, even when painful. I felt that it added a wonderful taste of realism to the show. They didn't make a big deal about it, or make the changes too melodramatic, but the writers still acknowledged that things do change. And I think it was a little awkward at the beginning (I think of Teal'c and how he didn't quite know what to make of Mitchell, or the subtle tension between Daniel and Landry when they weren't quite sure how to deal with one another), but that's realistic. That's natural. And it's part of what makes seasons 9-10 fun to watch, especially early season 9.

I don't like that people hold it against Cam or BB that he replaced Jack, because it was RDA's decision to leave, and neither Cam nor BB are at fault for that decision.

I know a lot of fans have their reasons for disliking Cam's introduction... but as much as I've tried, I just don't understand any of them. I agree that it was RDA's decision to leave, and as fans, we have to respect that. TPTB had to decide to either continue SG1 without him, or end the series. I'm very thankful that they didn't decide to end it.

Even though Jack was my favorite character when I first started watching, I still loved Cam. And I have already gushed over his character development, so you all know how I feel about him.

[Iawen]

I'm not sure I would call the transition between seasons 8 and 9 "seamless." I watched the show as it aired, starting sometime in season 7, so when season 9 came around, we all knew there would be changes, but I wasn't prepared for the "what the frell?" feeling I had. But what shocked me wasn't Cam's introduction or Landry's introduction or anything like that. It was the essential disbandment of SG-1. I wasn't expecting everyone to go on their separate ways, so it kinda felt like a punch in the gut. I remember thinking "What, no SG-1? How could that happen?" And this is probably one criticism that I have: I don't think Jack leaving the SGC should have necessitated the break up of SG-1. With that said, Teal'c, at least, had a strong reason to leave. Daniel too, to some extent.

In retrospect though, despite the disoriented feeling I had at the beginning of season 9, I think it was a great choice. I think it put people off because the changes made them feel nostalgic for the "original" and "classic" SG-1. And all the people who had viewed SG-1 as a close-knit family felt like that family was just destroyed. However, I think that it was a brilliant writing move. Because in reality, change is a constant in life. People move on, take new jobs, priorities change. And it was time for SG-1 to acknowledge that change is necessary, even when painful. I felt that it added a wonderful taste of realism to the show. They didn't make a big deal about it, or make the changes too melodramatic, but the writers still acknowledged that things do change. And I think it was a little awkward at the beginning (I think of Teal'c and how he didn't quite know what to make of Mitchell, or the subtle tension between Daniel and Landry when they weren't quite sure how to deal with one another), but that's realistic. That's natural. And it's part of what makes seasons 9-10 fun to watch, especially early season 9.

Well, like I said, I've only seen it on DVD. I didn't mean to say that it was completely seamless, just as seamless as the headliner of the show for eight years leaving and being replaced with two new characters could be. In fact, I think in most other shows it wouldn't have been done nearly so well.

I completely agree with the writing of season nine and how good a move it was to have the team disbanded at the beginning of the season. What you said is exactly how I feel about it.

I know a lot of fans have their reasons for disliking Cam's introduction... but as much as I've tried, I just don't understand any of them. I agree that it was RDA's decision to leave, and as fans, we have to respect that. TPTB had to decide to either continue SG1 without him, or end the series. I'm very thankful that they didn't decide to end it.

Even though Jack was my favorite character when I first started watching, I still loved Cam. And I have already gushed over his character development, so you all know how I feel about him.

I love Cam, too, as I said in my previous post. LOL. I don't understand why people don't like Cam, either, but if they have legitimate reasons, I respect it. But I don't think that not liking him or giving him a chance simply because he replaced RDA is cool. I realize most people don't do that but some people out there do.

[Khentkawes]

Well, like I said, I've only seen it on DVD. I didn't mean to say that it was completely seamless, just as seamless as the headliner of the show for eight years leaving and being replaced with two new characters could be. In fact, I think in most other shows it wouldn't have been done nearly so well.

Oh yes, I totally understand that. And I completely agree that it was as smooth of a transition as they could have made, considering what they dealt with. Losing one major character (and since they had already written out Janet and Hammond, they didn't have many characters left to lose) and then having another absent for the first quarter of the season was a huge obstacle to overcome. And I think they found a great way to deal with. I just think that it's interesting that the initial disorientation period when all of those changes were made caused some fans to dislike S9/S10, while it actually increased my interest and made me much more excited about watching.

I'm not sure if the difference between watching on DVD and watching when it aired makes a huge difference or not. How much did you know about the changes in season 9 before you started watching it? I could see where you might have different expectations if you've heard about the changes.

I love Cam, too, as I said in my previous post. LOL. I don't understand why people don't like Cam, either, but if they have legitimate reasons, I respect it. But I don't think that not liking him or giving him a chance simply because he replaced RDA is cool. I realize most people don't do that but some people out there do.

I definitely agree with that. I feel bad for BB because in some ways he came into the show with a handicap that had nothing to do with him. I think he has a good head on his shoulders, so I assume that he wasn't bothered too much by some of the stuff that went on in fandom at that time.

[Iawen]

I just think that it's interesting that the initial disorientation period when all of those changes were made caused some fans to dislike S9/S10, while it actually increased my interest and made me much more excited about watching.

I'm not sure if the difference between watching on DVD and watching when it aired makes a huge difference or not. How much did you know about the changes in season 9 before you started watching it? I could see where you might have different expectations if you've heard about the changes.

The changes in seasons nine and ten from the previous seasons were refreshing to me--they gave the show a much needed shot in the arm. I have a great love for all of SG-1, but nine and ten are far and away my favorite seasons.

I usually find that the DVD watching experience is different than watching it week to week as it airs, for just about any show. For one, DVD experience tends to be less frustrating because you are not waiting months and months to see where storylines are going and stuff, and as people (especially people like me, LOL) typically watch seasons on DVD pretty fast, it makes the emotional experience of it different as well.

I knew before I got to season nine that RDA left at the end of eight and that the guy from Farscape came in. I've never seen Farscape so that aspect didn't mean that much to me, but my best friend, who got me into the show in the first place, is the one who told me about it. Jack is her absolute favorite character and she wasn't bothered by the transition at all, so I wasn't expecting to be either, LOL.

I feel bad for BB because in some ways he came into the show with a handicap that had nothing to do with him. I think he has a good head on his shoulders, so I assume that he wasn't bothered too much by some of the stuff that went on in fandom at that time.

I would hope that most actors wouldn't put too much stock into what fans say about them. First of all, online fans like us are pretty rabid; we don't all agree with each other and even when there's a collected group of riled up fans all saying things against an actor, they don't ever represent the entire fanbase.

I agree with you about BB--he seems pretty smart and I think he's a very capable actor.

Man, all of this talk about Cam is making me itch to watch seasons nine and ten. LOL. I'm in the middle of season eight right now so I'm almost there.

[Iawen]

I mean to say, less frustrating in places where fans typically get frustrated, LOL. Not that fans are always frustrated with every show watching it air every week.

Is that confusing? Am I expressing myself as poorly as I think I am? LOL.

[Khentkawes]

I mean to say, less frustrating in places where fans typically get frustrated, LOL. Not that fans are always frustrated with every show watching it air every week.

Is that confusing? Am I expressing myself as poorly as I think I am? LOL.

LOL. Yeah, you're expressing yourself just fine. The long wait for the second half of season 10 definitely frustrated me and it affected my enjoyment of it. It's the only time I have ever watched episodes online before they aired because I was so tired of waiting for The Quest part 2! The wait was so freakishly long that I had to rewatch the first half of the season twice just to make sure I remembered everything. So yes, it was extremely frustrating. On the other hand, I relished every second of the last half of season 10 once it finally did come.

I watched Farscape on DVD, and found it easier to follow that way. But I also found that I didn't remember it as well, because there was no period of anticipation (and I didn't get the inevitable reruns while I waited for the next episode). Or maybe it's just because Farscape is more confusing. But watching the last of season 4 in one long session was an adrenaline packed ride, whereas it would have been different if I saw it in pieces. So I don't know. Both methods of their merits.

[Iawen]

There was a long wait between The Quest parts one and two? Oh you poor thing! LOL. I was pretty impatient watching the episodes between part two and The Shrine, and I was watching them on DVD, LOL!!!!

[Iawen]

Oh since we've been talking about Cam, I have always wanted to use this smilie because I think it's both hilarious and adorable: