S10: nostalgia, new viewers & the progression of SG1

[Callista]

Regarding the talk of magic: It would seem that the writers were concerned a little about the power of the Ori and the ancients and the technology of SG-1 and their allies seeming like magic...or if not concerned, at least aware. The scene in "Camelot" where Daniel is trying to explain to the people of the village (I wanted to write "village people", but that would lead to a whole different mental image ) that the holograms and such were only technology and not actual magic and then he gets beamed up right in the middle of his little speech is one of my favorites. Maybe they were trying to explain in their own way that what appears like magic to us (as to the villagers) is simply technology or natural abilities, in the case of the ascended people, that we don't understand. Of course, ascended people are pretty darn close to supernatural in my book, so I guess things they do would fit the definition of magic.

I must say that I don't like it when our heroes or their nemeses gain too much power either. It makes it too difficult to sustain a sense of jeopardy. I think too many sci-fi shows advance everyone to the point of having to come up with excuses for why their technology doesn't work in order to have any suspense at all. Malfunctioning holodeck anyone?

[Khentkawes]

Regarding the talk of magic: It would seem that the writers were concerned a little about the power of the Ori and the ancients and the technology of SG-1 and their allies seeming like magic...or if not concerned, at least aware. The scene in "Camelot" where Daniel is trying to explain to the people of the village (I wanted to write "village people", but that would lead to a whole different mental image ) that the holograms and such were only technology and not actual magic and then he gets beamed up right in the middle of his little speech is one of my favorites.

That is a great scene. Daniel also has a long speech about this in The Powers that Be in season 9, about how it's not magic, just technology. And that argument resurfaces in The Quest when Osric/Adria says the fact that they can't understand the Ori's power proves that it's supernatural. Or something along those lines.

I must say that I don't like it when our heroes or their nemeses gain too much power either. It makes it too difficult to sustain a sense of jeopardy. I think too many sci-fi shows advance everyone to the point of having to come up with excuses for why their technology doesn't work in order to have any suspense at all. Malfunctioning holodeck anyone?

But I like malfunctioning holodeck!

I do agree. But if I had to choose, I'd rather that the villains seem overly powerful instead of the heroes, because it creates that sense of peril and of a great challenge to overcome. And I like to cheer for the underdog. Although, with that said, one of the many reasons I despised the LotR movies was because the heroes seemed so weak and helpless that I couldn't admire them. Not that I want to start an argument about LotR, because I fully realize that I'm one of the few people on the face of the planet who doesn't like it... it's just an illustration how helpless heroes aren't very appealing to me. So I think there needs to be balance. The heroes can still be underdogs facing a powerful villain without seeming helpless.

[Commander Zelix]

I'm not sure if I'm alone, but I now got a completely new look at s9 and 10 of SG1. At my first viewing, I felt that most episodes were good, but I truly missed Oneill. I felt something was missing at that time due to his departure. But now with a few years to take a step back, I feel that season 9 and season 10 are truly great. They got GREAT rewatchability value, good dialogue (I admit I always liked the Vala character) and most surprisingly great original stories. I now pop-in an episode of SG1 s9 and 10 every now and then with truly great satisfaction (i even watched a couple of episodes in a row).

[amconway]

I'm not sure if I'm alone, but I now got a completely new look at s9 and 10 of SG1. At my first viewing, I felt that most episodes were good, but I truly missed Oneill. I felt something was missing at that time due to his departure. But now with a few years to take a step back, I feel that season 9 and season 10 are truly great. They got GREAT rewatchability value, good dialogue (I admit I always liked the Vala character) and most surprisingly great original stories. I now pop-in an episode of SG1 s9 and 10 every now and then with truly great satisfaction (i even watched a couple of episodes in a row).

I don't think you're alone, there. I liked the episodes when I first saw them, although, while I had empathy for Vala, I found her infinately more irritating than charming. That's not actually something that changed, but I did become more used to it. I found the change in tone less jarring with some distance from the 'original' series, and there are episodes that I think are really great.

[Khentkawes]

Well, as much as I have always loved Jack, I didn't really miss him (I know, that statement is fandom heresy. But it's true, so deal with it). So I didn't have that to get over. I will admit, that the first half of season 9 was pretty touch and go for me... I still wasn't sure if I was going to like it. But I tried to have an open mind and once I stopped coming online to see what other fans thought (I was a lurker back then), I really warmed up to it. So by mid-season 9, I was convinced I would like it. And honestly, season 10 was better IMO.

I do think they're both very re-watchable seasons. With a few exceptions, most of the episodes have a nice pace and plenty of quick dialogue exchanges, humor, etc. And I think it helps to watch them (especially season 9) with some distance. If you were online at the time, there was so much negativity going around about Ben Browder and RDA leaving that it was hard to take the episodes at face value and evaluate them on their own. Personally, I usually find that my second viewing of an episode is more objective anyway because it's not hampered by expectations.

After season 10 ended, I did some serious rewatching of both S9 and S10 when the S10 DVDs came out) and I found that things that hadn't made sense to me before, especially character moments with Cam and Vala, suddenly made sense. Especially in Cam's case. Those first few episodes I didn't really "get" Cam, but when I re-watched, I could definitely see what BB was trying to do and the growth that the character experienced. I honestly believe that Browder's portrayal of Cam was much more subtle and complex than most fans give him credit for, but I never would have noticed without re-watching those two seasons.

[amconway]

I honestly believe that Browder's portrayal of Cam was much more subtle and complex than most fans give him credit for, but I never would have noticed without re-watching those two seasons.

I expected complex from word go what with having seen Farscape, maybe that's why I liked Cam right from the beginning. Really, though? I think it's just because Cam is so darn likable. Frankly, I don't understand how anyone could not like Cam. He's the nicest guy on the planet.

[Khentkawes]

I expected complex from word go what with having seen Farscape, maybe that's why I liked Cam right from the beginning. Really, though? I think it's just because Cam is so darn likable. Frankly, I don't understand how anyone could not like Cam. He's the nicest guy on the planet.

I didn't understand him in the beginning. That one scene in the S9 premiere where he's talking to Sam (who's at Area 51) and he says something about "what if I screw up because you're not here"... I didn't get that outburst, especially when paired with his confidence in other scenes. But in retrospect, Cam is more self-aware than many of the other characters on this show. He knows his faults and he knows his limitations. He shows that over and over again (his conversation with his friend in Stronghold, some of his comments in Collateral Damage, his conversations with Landry about how Cam's not really in charge of anything...). That was something I simply didn't understand when he was first introduced. And it's one of the reasons I came to really adore his character.

And you're right. He is just a really likable guy. I get that some people think he's reckless, because... well, he is. He knows that, admits it, and even says he doesn't like that about himself. That's real honesty and I can admire that. If Cam was perfect, I wouldn't like him so much.

I knew of Farscape, but didn't watch it until after SG-1 ended, so I had no expectations of Browder's performance... which may have actually been a good thing. I quickly grew to like him as Cam without having to think about Crichton in the back of my mind.

[madaboutdanny]

I expected complex from word go what with having seen Farscape, maybe that's why I liked Cam right from the beginning. Really, though? I think it's just because Cam is so darn likable. Frankly, I don't understand how anyone could not like Cam. He's the nicest guy on the planet.

I've never had problem with BB, to me he was an unknown actor, and since my one and only love on Sg1 is Daniel I didn't care that much about Jack leaving the show, but especially in season 9 Cam was a little annoying with all his enthusiasm and team's crush, but I loved his growning friendship with Daniel and the nick he gave him, Sunshine, and how he called him Daniel in the Quest, really touching. In The Quest I think Cam was great in showing how much he cared for his team, and in season 10 I can think of just one ep in which Cam was reckless and annoying, Off The Grid.

[Neelan_Liquor]

Very true, but I think RCC did a nice job of allowing Tomin's inaction to be seen in a somewhat sympathetic light (although I'm sure there are plenty of people who disagree with me ). I specifically like the shot of Vala chained at night and then the pan to the window of Tomin's house where we see him just sitting on the floor. I think that was a great moment - one that established that Tomin wasn't going on with his life as per usual, that he was genuinly conflicted and constantly debating with himself what to do.

It was a smart move to show Tomin at the beginning of the episode being this very meak social outcast of a character. It made his inability to rush to action believable, and his eventual decision to buck authority more powerful. It's interesting to watch 'Crusade' Tomin and then AOT Tomin. They seem so different (in both look and attitude). That character REALLY changed over the course of the two seasons.

-Stef

I agree with everything you just said. And the work RCC did in AoT and even the Atlantis ep Vegas really helped boost my opinion of him. I get the feeling that he genuinely loves these characters and enjoys fleshing them out.

I'm not sure if I'm alone, but I now got a completely new look at s9 and 10 of SG1. At my first viewing, I felt that most episodes were good, but I truly missed Oneill. I felt something was missing at that time due to his departure. But now with a few years to take a step back, I feel that season 9 and season 10 are truly great. They got GREAT rewatchability value, good dialogue (I admit I always liked the Vala character) and most surprisingly great original stories. I now pop-in an episode of SG1 s9 and 10 every now and then with truly great satisfaction (i even watched a couple of episodes in a row).

I do think they're both very re-watchable seasons. With a few exceptions, most of the episodes have a nice pace and plenty of quick dialogue exchanges, humor, etc. And I think it helps to watch them (especially season 9) with some distance. If you were online at the time, there was so much negativity going around about Ben Browder and RDA leaving that it was hard to take the episodes at face value and evaluate them on their own. Personally, I usually find that my second viewing of an episode is more objective anyway because it's not hampered by expectations.

After season 10 ended, I did some serious rewatching of both S9 and S10 when the S10 DVDs came out) and I found that things that hadn't made sense to me before, especially character moments with Cam and Vala, suddenly made sense. Especially in Cam's case. Those first few episodes I didn't really "get" Cam, but when I re-watched, I could definitely see what BB was trying to do and the growth that the character experienced. I honestly believe that Browder's portrayal of Cam was much more subtle and complex than most fans give him credit for, but I never would have noticed without re-watching those two seasons.

It's SOOOO cool to see how time has helped to change views. I always enjoyed seasons 9 & 10, but it's true... over time, after re-watching them, I can see more details in performance, script and even the sets. I love that. And it makes me very happy to see all those stellar comments about Ben, too.

[GermanAstra]

I disagree, that was magic for the people that didn't know the reality. Sg1 found a way to desable the Prior's power with the antiprior device and Daniel said that all their power wasn't magic but better scientific and technological knowledge. And Sam was able to fly a Ori ship without the Prior. We know, almost from the beginning, that all their magic isn't magic at all.

Then I apologize, apparently I did not pay enough attention to the technobabble. Visuals stick much more in my mind, so maybe I only disliked the enhanced computer effects? For me it really makes a difference if a gate/wall/force field is coming down mechanically, or whether a wall just appears out of nothing. Although, if I now think about it, the "growing" of Tok'ra tunnels is not very believable, either... I mean, where does all the dirt go, that was in there before? Does it disappear?

I'm sorry, maybe I should not even talk in here, it's been a while that I have seen the episodes. If you like to know more (and since we are now allowed to play in each other's sandboxes as well), just try and come over in "ours", there are a lot of guys who can explain it all much better, with all kinds of details and facts and episode names I've already have forgotten. If you only go a few pages back, the Ori storyline was in discussion there. Along with suggestions how it could have been different.

I want to take the time to answer amconway's questions, though:

Did you feel the same way about the Ancients? I'm guessing that you didn't like 'Maternal Instinct' or the episodes when Daniel is ascended either...

The way "Maternal Instinct" works for me is that Jack is so sceptical all the time. He is voicing my thoughts, in a way. So that's fun. I would have been very disappointed if it had been indeed Daniel making fire. That in the end it had been Oma almost was a relief, some kind of explanation. Great scene at the end where Daniel asks Jack to trust him and lower his weapons. That could not have been easy.

The Ancients in general did not appear as much in the earlier seasons, so the few times they did I easily could overlook and concentrate on something else. They were something nebuluous we did not know much about it. Only when the whole focus was more on them I got annoyed a bit.

As for the episodes of season six with Daniel as a guest appearance you will be surprised to hear that I really like them. In fact, if Michael Shanks had not returned, I would see more guest appearances as a great way to still have him in the show now and then. Kinda like a guardian angel? I am not religious in any way, but isn't it great to imagine that there is somebody looking out for you and coming for help if necessary? For the same reason I like the whole Superman universe, for example. Or the movie "It's a wonderful life".

"Abyss" leaves a lot of room for interpretation, after all. I explored in a fanfiction the possibility that it all was faked by Ba'al, something like good cop - bad cop. I mean, in the end Jack spilled his guts to Daniel, so Ba'al would have gotten exactly what he wanted...

What about ones that are kind of in between like 'Forever in a Day' and 'Absolute Power'?

I recently re-watched "Forever in a Day" for the second time ever, after years. If you asked me now, I could not tell you what's it about. Very confusing, I'm never sure what is real and what isn't. I can admire it for the whole "different" try on storytelling and it somehow glues you to your seat while watching because you're never sure what happens next, but it's certainly no favourite of me.

"Absolute Power" is the one about Daniel starting a war against Russia, right? Maybe more experienced viewers saw it coming, I absolutely fell for it the first time and sat gaping at the end. It's certainly an interesting character exploration, and little Shifu is just cute No, I did not mind this one at all. The explanation was good IMO.

... and sometimes it seems like SG-1's ability to miraculously understand this new advanced technology that they've never seen before is pretty magical and definitely stretches my suspense of disbelief...

Exactly! Not even Sam can be that bright.

And I do agree that one of the cool things about the early seasons of SG-1 was how modern it was, in the sense of modern weapons and no advanced technology. That was a very cool element of SG-1 and I was sad to see it go, but for me, that really started to disappear in season 6 when they introduced the Prometheus.

I absolutely agree, and a lot of fans over in the other thread as well. The name of the show is "StarGATE", not "StarSHIP". All the many ships flying and shooting and getting blown up, and next week we have a whole new ship... that is not what I was accustomed to. The gate got a bit neglected at the end. (Not sure if that is the right place to point out I never understood the fascination with "Star Wars", either...)

The scene in "Camelot" where Daniel is trying to explain to the people of the village (I wanted to write "village people", but that would lead to a whole different mental image ) that the holograms and such were only technology and not actual magic and then he gets beamed up right in the middle of his little speech is one of my favorites.

That was indeed very funny Reminded me of Jack's "I'm not a man of many words" when Thor beamed him up.

As for holograms, at first I thought the knight in the pilot of season 9 was a hologram, and we have seen Jack waving his hand through more than one of them - but then it was able to hurt Cam while he was not able to fight back equally. Do I remember that right? That was another scene that felt "odd" to me. Either it's there or it isn't there. How can it work both ways?

Not that I want to start an argument about LotR, because I fully realize that I'm one of the few people on the face of the planet who doesn't like it...

*raises hand* I'm the other one


I want to add that I really liked the pilot episode(s) of season 9. It felt all indeed very fresh and new and different, even the look of it. I can't tell you exactly when and why I started to lose interest.

Another episode I really like is "200". I heard so many negative comments about that one, but I can giggle from start till the end. And there is so much truth in some comments, also. Maybe we should not take it all too seriously, it's only a show, after all.

And, to make a famous last word, for me it will never die, as long as I can read fanfictions in the internet. You can pick those to your taste, which season or character you prefer, I think that is great. There is something in there that appeals to everybody. And they never grow old in there, either!

[amconway]

I explored in a fanfiction the possibility that it all was faked by Ba'al, something like good cop - bad cop. I mean, in the end Jack spilled his guts to Daniel, so Ba'al would have gotten exactly what he wanted...

Wow! What a deeply unpleasant notion! Daniel would never have let that happen, though...

Another episode I really like is "200". I heard so many negative comments about that one, but I can giggle from start till the end. And there is so much truth in some comments, also. Maybe we should not take it all too seriously, it's only a show, after all.

I thought this was very funny, as well, and the actors were having such a good time celebrating their 200th episode. What a shame that feeling was ruined almost immediately afterwards by cancellation.

My feeling about why 200 and Citizen Joe were disliked by so many is that they poked some fun at fandom--gentle fun, but fun, nonetheless. I thought it was pretty darn funny the way Joe started to care less about his own life than the lives of SG-1 and went into a depression over Daniel's death. As we see everyday, fandom takes itself very, very, very seriously. I think there were people who didn't like having the essential silliness of that pointed out, even in a fond manner.

[madaboutdanny]

Then I apologize, apparently I did not pay enough attention to the technobabble. Visuals stick much more in my mind, so maybe I only disliked the enhanced computer effects? For me it really makes a difference if a gate/wall/force field is coming down mechanically, or whether a wall just appears out of nothing. Although, if I now think about it, the "growing" of Tok'ra tunnels is not very believable, either... I mean, where does all the dirt go, that was in there before? Does it disappear?

I'm sorry, maybe I should not even talk in here, it's been a while that I have seen the episodes. If you like to know more (and since we are now allowed to play in each other's sandboxes as well), just try and come over in "ours", there are a lot of guys who can explain it all much better, with all kinds of details and facts and episode names I've already have forgotten. If you only go a few pages back, the Ori storyline was in discussion there. Along with suggestions how it could have been different.

No thanks, I try to avoid as much as possible that thread...even because I like season 9 and 10, the right amount of Daniel and, thanks god, no Jack/Sam. Maybe I have no problem with the "magic" because when I watch scifi I suspend all my belief, otherwise I'd never watch scifi, to me it'd be unbelieveble super Sam or Daniel linguistic skills, or dumb Jack or the Goau'ld's ridiculousness as villain, not to mention all that incredible and inexplicable technology, perhaps it's the reason why I love so much Daniel as character, he has much to do with humanity than technology.

[Khentkawes]

In The Quest I think Cam was great in showing how much he cared for his team, and in season 10 I can think of just one ep in which Cam was reckless and annoying, Off The Grid.

Technically, everyone was acting a little reckless in Off the Grid. I think they underestimated the Lucian Alliance in that episode. With that said, I enjoy it because it's a fun episode. And when it comes right down to it, they do work as a team in the end... a little dysfunctional in the beginning perhaps, but they are all equally dysfunctional together.

Oh, and I love Cam in The Quest too. It also shows that he does know how to make the tough calls, even when he doesn't like it. And that's something that I don't think some of the other characters (Sam, Daniel, Vala) could have done.

It's SOOOO cool to see how time has helped to change views. I always enjoyed seasons 9 & 10, but it's true... over time, after re-watching them, I can see more details in performance, script and even the sets. I love that. And it makes me very happy to see all those stellar comments about Ben, too.

Indeed. I always liked seasons 9 & 10 too. Season 10 is actually probably in my top two or three favorite seasons. But it's so much easier now to reevaluate things that I was ambivalent about before.

And of course there's Ben love here! I really do think he added some great enthusiasm to the show. I never understood comments about him being a Jack clone, and when I re-watch, it's even more obvious to me that Cam is a very different character than Jack. Cam's also not a Crichton clone... he's much mellower and more grounded than Crichton, much more honest and open than Jack. But the details of Cam's character are much easier to see on a second or third viewing.

And now I want to go watch seasons 9-10 again, but I can't because I have to do homework.

[Neelan_Liquor]

And now I want to go watch seasons 9-10 again, but I can't because I have to do homework.

Awe, it's okay. They'll still be there when you're done with the homework.

[Khentkawes]

Awe, it's okay. They'll still be there when you're done with the homework.

You mean there's an end to homework? So far, I haven't found it. Maybe that's because I have evil profs.