S10: nostalgia, new viewers & the progression of SG1

[SundaySusans]

I don't understand the dislike of the Ori storyline either! I agree with all the points you made in your post. The Ori V. Ancients thing was really really interesting. I think the Ori storyline was the best written storyline on SG-1. The Goa'uld wasn't really written as a storyline IMO; they just crept up every now and again for major episodes, LOL. Not that there's anything wrong with it, I just prefer story arcs like the Ori.

Iawen, I did enjoy the Ori also. It wasn't the most novel concept, basic evil twin part of an old race coming together in the end for the big good versus evil showdown. And the basic Jesus storyline used so many times when an actress "falls pregnant". But I did enjoy all the episodes that did come from the story. It did give so many amazing shots of them in space and battle shots too. I am a sucker for the blues hues of space.

[Khentkawes]

I don't understand the dislike of the Ori storyline either! I agree with all the points you made in your post. The Ori V. Ancients thing was really really interesting. I think the Ori storyline was the best written storyline on SG-1. The Goa'uld wasn't really written as a storyline IMO; they just crept up every now and again for major episodes, LOL. Not that there's anything wrong with it, I just prefer story arcs like the Ori.

I think the Goa'uld worked really well, especially in the first few seasons. They provided a focus and a main villain that was creepy simply because they had no sympathy whatsoever. But because the show split the focus between the Goa'uld arc and off-world exploration, the Goa'uld didn't need to be in every episode. Which worked great. The Ori are just different altogether. They're still evil, but the power struggle is a little more complicated. And the moral issues aren't as black and white. But I like them both, just for different reasons.

Some people said that Ori were boring because they were just stereotypical evil villains, but I don't see where they get that. They aren't any more stereotypical than the Goa'uld, IMO.

[Iawen]

Iawen, I did enjoy the Ori also. It wasn't the most novel concept, basic evil twin part of an old race coming together in the end for the big good versus evil showdown. And the basic Jesus storyline used so many times when an actress "falls pregnant". But I did enjoy all the episodes that did come from the story. It did give so many amazing shots of them in space and battle shots too. I am a sucker for the blues hues of space.

Yeah but there wasn't really a better way for them to have handled CB being pregnant, IMO anyway.

As for the Ori not being the most novel concept, I suppose that's true but I thought it was fresh for the show and I liked how it drew parallels against the Ancients which we learned more and more about. There's not a whole lot else they could have come up with that *would* have been a novel concept. I'm glad they moved on from the goa'uld, because I was ready for a new big bad.

[SundaySusans]

Yeah but there wasn't really a better way for them to have handled CB being pregnant, IMO anyway.

As for the Ori not being the most novel concept, I suppose that's true but I thought it was fresh for the show and I liked how it drew parallels against the Ancients which we learned more and more about. There's not a whole lot else they could have come up with that *would* have been a novel concept. I'm glad they moved on from the goa'uld, because I was ready for a new big bad.

I was surprised that they used that for the pregnancy too. I liked the actress they used for Adria but the character always seemed a little forced to me, even in Ark of Truth. As for the Ori, I know that the basic good versus evil isn't new but I did like the complexity that they gave this arc by introducing the characters like Tomin that made the Ori not totally "bad". The inner conflict of this Character and his devotion to his "religion" made the fight so complex on so many levels. SG1 wasn't fighting just the priors or the Orici... they were fighting people that had morals and were willing to die for their Gods. This part of the Ori story I did enjoy..

[Iawen]

I really liked characters like Tomin, as well; however I feel that people like his characters made the Ori themselves more bad. Tomin was a really good man, and kind and gentle person. The Ori, out of a purely selfish desire to have more power for themselves by gaining new worshippers, destroyed a lot of that. He always remained a good person who thought he was honestly doing the right thing, but the fact is that he committed a lot of atrocities in the name of false gods; that's wrong.

I love the complexity of the story in that their followers weren't necessarily bad, even if they were doing bad things, though.

[Neelan_Liquor]

I really liked characters like Tomin, as well; however I feel that people like his characters made the Ori themselves more bad. Tomin was a really good man, and kind and gentle person. The Ori, out of a purely selfish desire to have more power for themselves by gaining new worshippers, destroyed a lot of that. He always remained a good person who thought he was honestly doing the right thing, but the fact is that he committed a lot of atrocities in the name of false gods; that's wrong.

I love the complexity of the story in that their followers weren't necessarily bad, even if they were doing bad things, though.

Human beings have commited any number of atrocities in the name of a higher power, so it was still totally believable... moreso than several other plotlines.

[ZanderJ]

Season 10 wasn't the best, but it was stargate! Ergo it was better then the rest of what is on TV.

I just watch and love every epi no matter what

[the fifth man]

I will admit it was the geeky Daniel that I fell in love with in earlier seasons and I did prefer him to the Daniel in S9 &10, but I do believe that characters need to grow as a show progresses…otherwise they become boring and repetitive (as Iawen pointed out), therefore I think it was essential for his character to change and in the end I'm glad he did.

I am very happy TPTB chose to show Daniel's progression like they did throughout SG-1's 10 seasons. Having gone through what he did for that many years, it is only natural that he would change some.

IMO, at his core, he was still mostly the Daniel of the early SG-1 days. But he wasn't as naive as he was early on in the show, and could take care of himself rather well by Season 10.

[GateGipsy]

The S10 threads have been renamed. I didn't get any further suggestions, so went back through the thread again and picked the name that seemed to describe the discussion in this thread the best.

Remember, the forum is now operating to the new Vision Statement. That means that any views, for and against, positive and negative are welcome in this thread, as long as they are made respectfully. In addition, please qualify any negative statements, and don't dwell on the negative. If you've stated your piece, move on

If anyone wants to discuss this further please do so via PM. Thanks.

[amconway]

I am very happy TPTB chose to show Daniel's progression like they did throughout SG-1's 10 seasons. Having gone through what he did for that many years, it is only natural that he would change some.

IMO, at his core, he was still mostly the Daniel of the early SG-1 days. But he wasn't as naive as he was early on in the show, and could take care of himself rather well by Season 10.

If he wasn't essentially the same man, I don't think we would have seen the deep disillusionment that he showed while talking to Morgan La Fay in the Doci's prison. His disappointment was profound.

I really liked characters like Tomin, as well; however I feel that people like his characters made the Ori themselves more bad. Tomin was a really good man, and kind and gentle person. The Ori, out of a purely selfish desire to have more power for themselves by gaining new worshippers, destroyed a lot of that. He always remained a good person who thought he was honestly doing the right thing, but the fact is that he committed a lot of atrocities in the name of false gods; that's wrong.

I love the complexity of the story in that their followers weren't necessarily bad, even if they were doing bad things, though.

This was one of the great tragedies of the storyline. Poor Tomin. He'll never really be able to forgive himself, no matter what he accomplishes in his efforts to undo the damage. I love that scene in Ark of Truth where Teal'c is talking to Tomin about living with having done unspeakable things.

[the fifth man]

This was one of the great tragedies of the storyline. Poor Tomin. He'll never really be able to forgive himself, no matter what he accomplishes in his efforts to undo the damage. I love that scene in Ark of Truth where Teal'c is talking to Tomin about living with having done unspeakable things.

Yes, that was one of the great tragedies. Most of the Ori followers will probably never be able to forgive their actions, no matter what they do in the future.

That moment between Teal'c and Tomin was so powerful to me. It showed us that Teal'c has never, and probably will never, forgive himself for what he did while serving the Goa'uld. And it also shows us the type of man Tomin can become. He can choose to spend the rest of his days doing good, making a difference, just like Teal'c chose to.

[Stef]

ITA with what a lot of you are saying I know that there are a fair number of fans who despise Tomin for various reasons but I think he was one of the most interesting and compelling guest characters the show has had in its entire 10 years. He had a real emotional journey. A good deal of it involved Vala, yes, but I like how a good deal of it didn't. He wasn't just Vala's husband, you know? I feel like a lot of secondary characters have very little outside of their relationships with the team members, but for me Tomin did. Introducing him was a brilliant idea on RCC's part because it not only gave us a sympathetic and conflicted side to the Ori struggle, but it also gave us a window into a more serious and mature side of Vala which I liked. At least two of my favorite episodes are Tomin-related ('Crusade' and 'Line In the Sand').

-Stef

[amconway]

I know that there are a fair number of fans who despise Tomin for various reasons

Really? That astonishes me. The relationship between Vala and Tomin was really well done. I liked Vala much more after seeing her in the Ori galaxy. If she'd treated people at the SGC with as much respect and compassion, my opinion of the character would have been quite different. They started to let that show more, though. I think season 11 Vala would have been much more to my taste.

[Khentkawes]

Really? That astonishes me. The relationship between Vala and Tomin was really well done. I liked Vala much more after seeing her in the Ori galaxy. If she'd treated people at the SGC with as much respect and compassion, my opinion of the character would have been quite different. They started to let that show more, though. I think season 11 Vala would have been much more to my taste.

Probably true. Vala only irritated me for brief periods, mostly in season 9. I loved seeing the way she developed in season 10. And I think her development would have continued very nicely if they had been given season 11.

[Stef]

Really? That astonishes me. The relationship between Vala and Tomin was really well done. I liked Vala much more after seeing her in the Ori galaxy. If she'd treated people at the SGC with as much respect and compassion, my opinion of the character would have been quite different. They started to let that show more, though. I think season 11 Vala would have been much more to my taste.

I think part of the reason why some people dislike him so much is because of a) he left Vala chained up for, what, three days? b) he killed hundreds and/or thousands of people c) he hit his wife

I've never argued that Tomin is a saint by any stretch of the imagination because he isn't, but what he is is a morally complex character. I don't think he's a cruel person, but he has most certainly killed a lot of people and hurt even more. It makes him a compelling character to watch - seeing him go through that journey of redemption.

Probably true. Vala only irritated me for brief periods, mostly in season 9. I loved seeing the way she developed in season 10. And I think her development would have continued very nicely if they had been given season 11.

I agree with you and amconway about this point in particular. I think that in each season Vala had a different purpose or goal (S8-introduction, S9-establish a 'relationship' with the team, S10-become part of the team), so it would have been very interesting to see how S11 would have developed since I think by the end of S10 she had really solidified her place within the team. Some people only started warming to her character as S10 progressed, so I'd have been interested in seeing what the overall feeling would have been had she been in S11 and evolved even further (and interacted more with the rest of the team).

-Stef