Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[BrenRen]

Thinking about Affinity a little bit, I'm not sure I'd describe that scene as Sam shoving the ring in Jack's face. I saw a woman who was in real turmoil over Pete's proposal. She still had feelings for Jack and she knew she still had feelings for Jack. But what do you do when you love someone and see no future in it? You move on. Which she did...and it was fine, until Pete presented the ring. Then she had a dilemma. Dating Pete was one thing; had anything presented itself that would have suggested that there was a chance to have something with Jack, she could have broken it off with Pete. Marriage, however, took it to a whole other level. That was a lifelong commitment. No going back. So I think that was what she was wrestling with in her lab late at night.

And Jack did ask: he said something was up with her...she hadn't tried to confuse him lately...and that was a red flag. So...if this is the person she loves...the person she would be willing to turn Pete down for...the person she knows, if she's honest with herself, she would love to spend the rest of her life with...the person she trusts...then she does the only thing she can do: she tells him. And cuz sometimes words are hard to say, it's easier if she simply shows him. I don't think she was trying to shock him or provoke him deliberately...she was hurting and he was there and he was part of what was hurting so she told him.... And as the conversation progressed she tried, one more time, to find out if there was anything there...her list of excuses kept getting more and more desperate, especially as Jack kept shooting them down...until she finally tries to asks what she really wants to know. And Jack--darn him--knows exactly what she's asking. And he side-steps it. And it hurts like hell. It hurts her. It hurts him. And dang, but it even hurts to watch.

So Sam moves on. Which is what Jack wanted...well...maybe not what he *wanted*, but what he thought was best. For her. Because he loved her, and when you love someone that much, their happiness is the only thing that matters.

<SOB!!!!>

This post, just like that darn lab scene, brought me to my knees in tears.

<SOB!!!>

[Luvnjoe]

<SOB!!!!>

This post, just like that darn lab scene, brought me to my knees in tears.

<SOB!!!>

(((Bren))) There there! Welcome to the Angst Cavern! I've been wandering around in here all day. But now it's time for work. See you , shippers!

[Jumble]

Thinking about Affinity a little bit, I'm not sure I'd describe that scene as Sam shoving the ring in Jack's face. I saw a woman who was in real turmoil over Pete's proposal. She still had feelings for Jack and she knew she still had feelings for Jack. But what do you do when you love someone and see no future in it? You move on. Which she did...and it was fine, until Pete presented the ring. Then she had a dilemma. Dating Pete was one thing; had anything presented itself that would have suggested that there was a chance to have something with Jack, she could have broken it off with Pete. Marriage, however, took it to a whole other level. That was a lifelong commitment. No going back. So I think that was what she was wrestling with in her lab late at night.

And Jack did ask: he said something was up with her...she hadn't tried to confuse him lately...and that was a red flag. So...if this is the person she loves...the person she would be willing to turn Pete down for...the person she knows, if she's honest with herself, she would love to spend the rest of her life with...the person she trusts...then she does the only thing she can do: she tells him. And cuz sometimes words are hard to say, it's easier if she simply shows him. I don't think she was trying to shock him or provoke him deliberately...she was hurting and he was there and he was part of what was hurting so she told him.... And as the conversation progressed she tried, one more time, to find out if there was anything there...her list of excuses kept getting more and more desperate, especially as Jack kept shooting them down...until she finally tries to asks what she really wants to know. And Jack--darn him--knows exactly what she's asking. And he side-steps it. And it hurts like hell. It hurts her. It hurts him. And dang, but it even hurts to watch.

So Sam moves on. Which is what Jack wanted...well...maybe not what he *wanted*, but what he thought was best. For her. Because he loved her, and when you love someone that much, their happiness is the only thing that matters.

Y'see, maybe I didn't look that deep. When I saw this, her asking him 'If things had been different' I heard him say 'I wouldn't be here' as in, if things had been different and they hadn't been called upon to save the world every five minutes, he would have felt able to retire, so wouldn't have been here in the SGC thereby enabling them to be together.......?

[Patriot_Jackie]

<SOB!!!!>

This post, just like that darn lab scene, brought me to my knees in tears.

<SOB!!!>

You know, it's a pitty those three letters are also an acronym for something else entirely. I was confused for a minute there...

[Rachel500]

But she can't make that decision until she knows what Jack feels for her, if anything. She waits for him to tell her what she needs to hear, but he's not playing that game. She also won't just step out and find out herself...until Threads!

Actually, she could have made the decision without any input from Jack. She knew how she really felt about both men - Pete and Jack. IMO, ultimately the decision on whether to marry someone should be based on how you feel about the person asking not somebody else nor how that somebody else feels about you. All the signs in Affinity up to the bizarre moment she accepts indicate that that Sam really didn't want to marry Pete. She was shocked at the proposal. She knew deep down she wasn't ready for that level of commitment to Pete and probably knew it was because she hadn't let go of her feelings for Jack and while she loved Pete in his own way, she wasn't anywhere near as serious about him as he was about her at that point. Her whole 'is it fair to ask someone to be with me when I'm in constant danger', 'I don't know about dropping the kids off at creche and travelling to Jupiter' pitch is her desperately seeking some valid excuse to say no. But the only valid excuse is the truth; she doesn't love Pete enough to marry him and its the one she doesn't want to use because its the one she doesn't want to acknowledge because then she'd have to have a difficult conversation with Pete, she'd probably lose him and she would have failed at getting a life.

In part I do think Jack's knocking down of the excuses was actually an attempt to make her understand the real reason why she hadn't said; to come to the decision for the right reason: that perhaps if she was taking two weeks to think about it, she just didn't love the guy enough to say yes. Unfortunately, to Sam it looks very much as though he's just encouraging her to say yes.

I do think Jack was aware that she still had some feelings for him at this point. I think up until he sees the engagement ring his belief was that Sam was attempting to move on but hadn't quite - that he hadn't lost her completely; that maybe the thing would Pete would run its course eventually and they'd still get their someday. So when she tells him that she hasn't said yes, he comments quietly that she hasn't said no either; and he's stuck. If he tells her how he feels, he's being selfish and locking her into a future which may never come, where she may not experience family and kids so he won't make her happy. Yet, I think there is a part of him deep down given her inability to say yes and the poor excuses that gives him some small hope that actually she won't end up saying yes anyway.

Which brings me on to...

Y'see, maybe I didn't look that deep. When I saw this, her asking him 'If things had been different' I heard him say 'I wouldn't be here' as in, if things had been different and they hadn't been called upon to save the world every five minutes, he would have felt able to retire, so wouldn't have been here in the SGC thereby enabling them to be together.......?

You see, for me, when Sam asks 'what about you, if things had been different'- she's referring to their previous comments about plenty of Stargate personnel balancing their work and family lives. And I think she winces because she feels she's reminded him of Charlie and stepped into dangerous territory. When he answers 'I wouldn't be here', I think she believes he's stating that his family would come first if he had his old family; not his duty to the Stargate programme. And I think Sam must then feel, well if he feels that way about his old family but wouldn't give up the Stargate programme for us to be together than he doesn't love me that way. So it confirms all her fears that he only sees her as a friend. And thinking that, Sam then foolishly decides to try and move on fully, ignores her feelings for Jack and throws her lot in with Pete.

I actually think Jack's answer from his perspective is not so much related to his old family but family in general and was just an honest answer to her question. If he had a family, he wouldn't balance it; he wouldn't be part of the programme; if it was his old family with Sara and Charlie he wouldn't have joined in the first place, and if it was a new family with Sam, he wouldn't be there because his leaving or not being part of the programme would be the only way they would be together. I don't think he meant it to be a hint to her to deduce that if he wasn't there they would be together but maybe he secretly hoped she would work it out.

I do think when Jack hears she's said yes, it's then that he really feels she has moved on; that whatever her feelings for him are they're no longer enough and she's chosen Pete who can make her happy in a way he can't. So he lets her go...and ultimately tries to move on himself.

[samcarterrules]

Hi i've kinda been lurking on the thread for a few months and thought i would actually stop lurking and join in so, um, hi

Welcome to the family!!

I feel sad. ''They'' keep killing off my ships... You wait seasons and seasons for two characters to get together, and once they do, one of them dies!

So, here's the obvious question :


What would you rather see?

- Sam and Jack get the Big Honkin' Dream Scenario On Screen Not Deniable Resolution, and we get to enjoy the relationship for a while before one of them dies. At least we have confirmation.

or

- Sam and Jack do not officially get together, and we stop getting anything that could even be turned into a Shippy Hint by us, The experts of Ship spotting. At least we have our memories, imagination and FF


And think Trio: You have to choose. They're forcing you to

Oooh Nad that's a cruel question LOL, now nobody shoot me but I pick the first option, what can I say, I love angst


Julia(samcarterrules)

[Padme18]

I'm watching "Ex Deus Machina" from season 9 and there is a scene where Barret asks Sam about Pete. She says they are broken up. He says "So your single again?" her answer "Not Exactly."

I say it's a clue to Sam and Jack's relationship.

[Mary-Jane]

Y'see, maybe I didn't look that deep. When I saw this, her asking him 'If things had been different' I heard him say 'I wouldn't be here' as in, if things had been different and they hadn't been called upon to save the world every five minutes, he would have felt able to retire, so wouldn't have been here in the SGC thereby enabling them to be together.......?

Ohhhh. See I always thought less shippily about the conversation and thought that when Jack said that "he wouldn't be here" they were still talking about the kids topic. I think I am probably wrong hah. But yeah I always thought that when Sam asked "What about you...if things had been different..." that she was still talking about kids and about Jack's kid and I thought the reason she kinda got uncomfortable was because Charlie died and that's why she didn't really want to continue...Like "if things had been different" ie if Charlie hadn't died would Jack still be at the SGC. Which is what Sam was talking about with the whole, if I had kids would I still be here risking my life everyday.
Does that make sense to anyone?

[JMD]

Did anyone watch SGA last week?

Of course you did, but did you see that final scene in "Kindred," part 2, where

Spoiler:

Beckett is getting settled into the hibernation/stasis chamber? As it starts to close around Beckett and seal him in, we are treated to a shot of Carter looking at the contraption.

My wife turned to me and said, "That look on her face says, 'I've been here before and seen this thing operate.'"

Which is also what I was thinking. Carter had seen the hibernation/stasis contraption work before on O'Neill (at the end of Season Seven).

AT's expression said it all. Sam was thinking of Beckett and Jack. Nice bit of acting, I'd say.

[starlover]

Hi i've kinda been lurking on the thread for a few months and thought i would actually stop lurking and join in so, um, hi

Welcome

Have lots of fun...and post alot!

I feel sad. ''They'' keep killing off my ships... You wait seasons and seasons for two characters to get together, and once they do, one of them dies!

So, here's the obvious question :


What would you rather see?

- Sam and Jack get the Big Honkin' Dream Scenario On Screen Not Deniable Resolution, and we get to enjoy the relationship for a while before one of them dies. At least we have confirmation.

or

- Sam and Jack do not officially get together, and we stop getting anything that could even be turned into a Shippy Hint by us, The experts of Ship spotting. At least we have our memories, imagination and FF


And think Trio: You have to choose. They're forcing you to

Difficult...but I choose for the first one...but...before one dies they have a while a happily ever after...with kids...a dog...and just togetherness!

Oh, Nad, and for the record, I think your question is incredibly mean!

*grumbles* At least Bekki gives us fun questions.......*

Yup she is*pouts* ...but I could choose luckily!

Perhaps we should just keep ducking you in the gutter until you come to your senses........

OT ROFL!

Spoiler:

My daughter just emailed me. So how is that funny you ask? Well, she's upstairs and I'm downstairs.............Height of teenage laziness

OT:

Spoiler:

Lol it's bad...I do that as well with my brother...or he sends me a text message me!

I'm bored again...

Spoiler:

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee317/Seahen/untitled2.jpg

If I weren't trying to hide this from the instructor, I'd be able to clean this up better...

And sorry about the cavern looking so lame. If I had time to do this in 3D I could do a surface and do an actual cavern.

EDIT: If forgot to mention, drawing not to scale!

Ohh likey likey...cool that you can do that all with that program!!! First I thought you were just learning to make those things...with drawing...with pencils! (I was sooooo wrong)

Btw congrats all milestoners...woohoo!

[JackandSamAddict]

Hi i've kinda been lurking on the thread for a few months and thought i would actually stop lurking and join in so, um, hi

Welcome to the best thread ever!

I'm watching "Ex Deus Machina" from season 9 and there is a scene where Barret asks Sam about Pete. She says they are broken up. He says "So your single again?" her answer "Not Exactly."

I say it's a clue to Sam and Jack's relationship.

Aww! My poor Barrett...shot down! I'll comfort you Malcolm.

[Padme18]

Did anyone watch SGA last week?

Of course you did, but did you see that final scene in "Kindred," part 2, where

Spoiler:

Beckett is getting settled into the hibernation/stasis chamber? As it starts to close around Beckett and seal him in, we are treated to a shot of Carter looking at the contraption.

My wife turned to me and said, "That look on her face says, 'I've been here before and seen this thing operate.'"

Which is also what I was thinking. Carter had seen the hibernation/stasis contraption work before on O'Neill (at the end of Season Seven).

AT's expression said it all. Sam was thinking of Beckett and Jack. Nice bit of acting, I'd say.

Yes! That's exactly what I was thinking. It was so reminiscent of "Lost City 2".

[JackandSamAddict]

Congrats, friend! Look, here are your favorite couples...

YEA! Aww! My favorite couples! I forgot to say thank you for those! Thanks, Jena!

Oh...and yeah! I forgot to say...

Thank you for the congrats everyone!

Off to watch Atlantis because I can now! Yippie!!!

[majorsal]

i have a huge favor to ask sam fans on this thread! tonight's the season finale of 'the last man', and i'm very much wanting to know certain things about the ep before i see it.

spoilers for 'the last man'

Spoiler:

i'm afraid sam will die in this ep, before it shows sheppard showing up in the faaaar future. i need to be warned on that. so if anyone sees this before before i do -which will be at 10pm, west coast time-, PLEASE let me know about it!

sally

[mara-anni]

Hi Shipper!!

To answer NAD's question:

I don't like either option...

I will say this though...I would rather see both Sam and Jack killed than have them not together. This means that I'd rather see them die by each other's side than live on if TPTB don't get them together. And it also means that, if they are totally married (which I have no doubt of at this point) than again, I'd rather they both died than left one without the other.

In this case I could still watch the previous seasons of SG1, though every ep would be tinted with grief for me. If however they don't get together and/or only one of them dies I couldn't watch again.

And in fact I couldn't watch again if Teal'c or Daniel died either...nope the 4 members of SG1 are and should always remain indestructable.