Daniel Jackson/Vala Mal Doran Ship/Discussion/Appreciation Thread

[Kales]

LOL, don't worry about it Kales. I woke up with my mind in the gutter today One of the other threads that I play in has had strippers in there already this morning(OK....if you must know....I started it)

Why does it not surprise me that if there's a club about stargate, you're the 'arm manager'???

Haha, STRIPPERS?? *giggles*

I'm feeling very giggly today, which does not make for good history writing. Less painful history writing, yes , but I doubt it's improving my grade much.

kay x

[DJgirl]

Why does it not surprise me that if there's a club about stargate, you're the 'arm manager'???

Haha, STRIPPERS?? *giggles*

I'm feeling very giggly today, which does not make for good history writing. Less painful history writing, yes , but I doubt it's improving my grade much.

kay x

Am I that transparent??? ROFL!!!!!

I am in a FANTASTIC mood today(complete with giggles and Squees), so I am probably not the best one to be talking to if you want to buckle down and get some work done...LOL

EDIT: Just to add to my awesome mood, one of my songs I associate with Dala just came on my iPod shuffle, Take A Chance on Me by ABBA!

[Nikki]

I think one of things Stargate does best - and often goes too far with - is the movie off-screen concept. I.e. they are scared to be explicit about something - particularly something they tend to screw up (IMO) - like 'ship. I mean, all those hints throughout the years of off-base friendships etc. all of that is off-screen, and we accept that.

Yes, but the friendship thing worked because we saw how solid their friendships were in every episode on every mission. But what TPTB know is that a certain fandom will be happy not to see their desired relationship on-screen for a while if they are given a few big episodes and time dedicated to start of with, as well as a few hints here and there, but they missed that with D/V.

I think your Sam/Jack example shows this perfectly. In season 1 we were given a lot of flirting and sentimental scenes/episodes and in seasons 2 and 3 just a few moments scattered amongst the episodes. In season 4, again, major episodes dedicated to the ship then in 5 and 6 moments/hints. Season 7 and 8 major episodes, seasons 9 and 10 hints and moments. That's why I'm really excited about RDA's appearance in the second movie, we'll hopefully get much more than hints.

I thought this formula worked really well, as it does satisfy the majority of the fandom most of the time, yet they've managed to keep it as a running theme. But with D/V I never saw more than friendship even after all the time dedicated to them and so found it really difficult to see the ship as for me it was never a running theme. And that's why when, as you say, they broke the mould, it was really difficult for a lot of people to swallow as there was never anything there to start off with (other than friendship).

If they'd made it clearer from the start, then this sudden change of having it all out in the open wouldn't have been so controversial for as many people. As the shippers would have waited for the couple to get together, not suddenly find out that they harboured romantic feelings for each other.

And for D/S/T they messed it up because they always had friendship through out, not like the ships where they took breaks and so to take it away so drastically in the two later seasons is why a lot of people were so upset. To know it's there and not show it is one thing when it's always been like that, but when friendship has always been shown and then to let the audience assume it's there and not show it is terrible writing.

[Ronja]

I just spent half an hour watching Unending vids.... no it's NOT over but oi.. 6 months is a looong time!

It's Tuesday today...

[Arwen]

A fanfiction book? Cool! Do you write as well?

Hehe, I'll shameless plug my own stuff at this juncture, the reviewers seem to like it ... www.fanfiction.net/~sorrelrowan

There's loads of authors on here, yayness, and most of us will post a link when we update or upload a fic.

Guys, can anyone link the Midnight Storms archive and the livejournal community? The new IE is totally confusing me with where it's put all my links! *misses Firefox immensely right now* and I need to catch up on the LJ front.

kay x

Yeah. Its gonna be a booksized list of all the fan fic's I've ever read...and all the types of fan fic I like to read. I'm a Virgo so I like lists and organising. LOL. I plan to also write stuff like whether or not I actually like the fan fic or not.

Oh and Yes I do write. But none of my ideas for Daniel/Vala have made it to paper. I'm in the middle of writing a novel sized Sam/Mckay Fic...so I don't know when I will have time to do my Dala ones

Thanks. I'll be reading some the fics soon...Ill let you know what I thought of them.

[Ronja]

I thought I would leave my comment as well Ronja.

Being kinda new to the whole internet fandom of stargate (ive been a lurker for on and off for yrs but now with its unending and all I've become fully obsessed 100% of the time...especially with dala) that was my first Dala Video. I throughly enjoyed it (and even got happy teary LOL :blush and am now wishing I didn't need sleep so I could watch many many more right now.

keep spreading the love around,

Jess xx

Thank you for comments I'm so glad u liked it!

WELCOME ARWEN!

[gioia]

Last week at this hours we all were waiting for Unending..and a couple of hours later we were squeeeeeing like crazy. It's so done now until the movies, I'm feeling a little nostalgic, i guessand it only passed one week..
I need my weekly-Dala dose, dammit!!

[DJgirl]

Last week at this hours we all were waiting for Unending..and a couple of hours later we were squeeeeeing like crazy. It's so done now until the movies, I'm feeling a little nostalgic, i guessand it only passed one week..
I need my weekly-Dala dose, dammit!!

Hehehe, yeah last week was something, wasn't it???

Okay here is a little something, something that I saved from Nefertiti to help with the nostalgia and so you can get a good dose of Dala....

Unending...

Spoiler:

Thanks Nef for the great gif!!!!!

[Stef]

Okay, get ready for my loooong and crazy philosophical rant. I apologize in advance for it's length

Okay, so pitry and kales, you’ve both a done a better job in your single posts in addressing the issue than I did in several. While I clearly seem to keep placing my foot squarely in my mouth, I will attempt again to explain some of my feelings on this issue (adding onto the points both of you have already made).

The main issue that seems to be at play here is the battle between character and story. I think it’s safe to say that a good story is privileged over a good relationship in television today. But let me expand on that comment for a moment before I get into DV and SG-1. After visiting various boards for shows like “Lost” and “Battlestar Galactica,” I’ve noticed that one of the chief complaints about each is that there is too much focus on the characters and not enough movement in plot. Especially in terms of BSG, these character-driven episodes are considered “fillers.” I, for one, happen to enjoy these episodes just as much as the plot-heavy ones, but I understand the criticism. Now, let’s look at the other side of the coin, SGA, a show that focuses almost entirely on story rather than character. Indeed, after three seasons, we still know very little about these characters…something that I’ve found to be the chief complaint about the show. It seems that either way you go, you find yourself in trouble. SG-1 doesn’t seem to be the only one having trouble balancing these two conflicting priorities.

In the end, which is more forgivable? A show that creates a good plot but has few character moments, or a show that focuses on the characters at the expense of the story? Personal preferences aside, I think that most people would favor the former over the latter if push came to shove. There is, after all, a reason why “Law & Order” and “CSI” are so popular.

But getting back to SG-1…unfortunately, action seems to be the main concern for the producers/writers/network. After listening to the commentary for the episode “Fallen,” that was made even more clear to me. Scenes between characters are just nice additions to the plot, not the center of it. So, how does all of this relate back to D/V? Well, I believe that they have an ACTIVE relationship. What I mean by this is that they have an arc or journey. There are questions that have needed resolutions: (in season 9) Do they even like each other? Are they friends? Are they something more? There is simply more ambiguity there that the writers are able to work with and develop.

While we may love seeing D/S talk, is their relationship going anywhere? Is their talk leading to something? Since the clear establishment of the S/J and D/V ships, it seems unlikely that the writers are going to go for a D/S romance (sorry ). So we are left with scenes between two friends who have known each other for years. But unless there is going to be a testing of that relationship, their bond is going to stay the same regardless of how many scenes they share. So it would seem that the scenes between these two characters would just be more affirmation about how much they care for one another rather than any kind of new advancement in the plot or their friendship. Although it’s a sad way to look at things, I think the question becomes: who’s relationship will benefit the most from a scene? Since D/S have been clearly established as friends, that would move their scenes down the list of things that need to be addressed. D/V, on the other hand, isn’t secure, isn’t established. We aren’t sure of where these two stand with one another.

I’m not trying to minimize D/S here, I am just saying what I think is true of the nature of the show, of television in general. Does it make it okay that D/V gets privileged over D/S? No. But perhaps it explains why they do. Hopefully that makes sense and wasn’t just some long, drawn-out rambling on my account. Please don’t take offense and think I am trying to tear any pairing down, because that’s not what I’m trying to do here. It’s just the way I see the dynamic of the show working, for better or worse

-Stef

[JessM]

Okay I have a lot to catch up on (i've had a horrible, horrible morning so i'm in a pretty bad mood now... just as a warning, lol), so please bear with me here.

JessM, I know lots and lots of siblings that get on like a house on fire and that's how I see Sam and Daniel. For me, and I think for you too, they had a really strong friendship in the first 8 seasons. For me the friendships were equally as strong for all four of the origainl team. Now that carried on between 'Sam and Teal'c' and for 'Sam/Teal'c and Jack' as well, from what we saw from his appearances, but not with Daniel. It's like Sam/Jack/Teal'c all stayed friends but Daniel kind of...drifted because he changed so much. Not initially, mind you, but definitely later on. And that's what I think upsets you most as it upsets me too because SG1 showed how close and important their friendships were in the first 8 seasons.

I think you described it very well. I think the problem I was having was that for some reason I didn't see a brother/sister relationship as ... oh, I dont know ... special? deep? as a good friendship. Apologies to those who do feel they have special bonds with their siblings... this is just drawn from my personal observations. It did seem that way, too, that Daniel is the one who's changed the most and for some reason it makes it seem as if the dynamic (between him and Sam, as well as he and Sam and Teal'c) has changed between them.

I actually started to go off Daniel in general in seasons 9/10 because his character was so different from what it used to be, where as basically the others were still the same, but they had just matured from the first season, which is what I wanted for Daniel. But instead we got this personality transplant, which was kind of the bad parts of Mckay/Jack/Cam/Sheppard all put together and very little of the Daniel we used to have.

I know many see it differently, but this is the way I see it too. I know change is inevitable, but something just doesn't make me adore Daniel as much as I used to... I wish I could, really, but I just can't help it.

I also agree about the banter. In the earlier seasons we had interaction and banter with various combinations of pairings on the team, giving a really nice balance. Where as in the later seasons, we always had Daniel/Vala pair off and sometimes Cam/Teal'c, leaving Sam as kind of like the fifth wheel, which really upset me as a major Sam fan.

Same here, it upset me as well, especially after what Amanda said in that one interview. She said this season was pretty much all about Daniel and Vala, and that Sam (as well as she herself) missed Daniel. I felt sad to read that.

I agree. As Rachel said, there should have been fewer D/V scenes and more team friendship scenes, esp between Sam/Teal'c/Daniel. Something to show how special their friendship is after surviving so much after 60 odd years (counting the 10 years not on the ship).

Exactly. I'm really glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

I think there will be, esp in the second movie, as Jack's back. Everytime he's come back it's felt like the first 8 seasons all over again and I think it's gonna be the same for Continuum. TPTB probably wanted to give a tribute to their friendship in that movie as it's probably not gonna be re-set, so it'll mean something. (Hopefully there should be some great Sam/Jack scenes there as well. )

Wow, I really hope so. That would be great. It would be wonderful to see some original team friendship stuff in there (no offense to those who like the newer team better or D/V, this is just my personal feelings). lol, well we both have our own hopes... I'd just like to see some affirmation of Daniel's friendships with Sam and Teal'c onscreen.

[JessM]

Hmm. I honestly haven't met a lot of people who hate D/S. I know people who could care less or maybe don't see anything there, but never really full-on hate. Then again, I don't usually frequent D/S threads or sites, so I can't testify to that. You would probably know better than I would

Oh, believe me, they are out there, and they scare me. I've been flamed for my fanfiction, for posts I made on other sites (that imho were harmless), etc. I really don't understand why except maybe that people love to cause trouble and are intolerant. But to be honest, I am not talking anymore about S/D ship - I'm talking about friendship, at least here.

In regards to Sam, to be honest, for the first time during the second half of the season, I really started liking her character. Before "The Quest Pt.2" I kind of just dismissed Sam as merely being a convenience...but she's really grown on me. The same for Teal'c. At this point, I can honestly say that I love all of the characters of SG-1 (even Landry)...and all of the different dynamics (and that includes D/S). I can't say the same for most shows I watch.

I do happen to think that season 10 might have been slanted a bit more towards Vala's character, hence why we got a lot of DV scenes (because he's the closest friend she has). But I think that what made this season so great is that there was so much more team interaction, especially in these back 10. The beginning of season 9 was very much the DV show, in my opinion (I happen to like that...but if you're not a fan, it probably drove you up a wall). Although we got a significant amount of D/V this season, there were also scenes between other pairings as well (I'm a fan of the C/S dynamic).

As for Sam, I've watched the show since S6 and I've grown to love her as a character. Oh I did have maybe one or two issues with her in the past, but nothing earth-shattering. I do agree that a lot of the eps were slanted toward Vala this season and that's probably a big reason for all the D/V scenes... but even when the eps weren't centered toward her, we'd see them paired up a lot (i.e. Bad Guys, Talion). And there were scenes between other pairings except for D/S, which is what upset me because I thought it was unfairly neglected.

As for Daniel's character...yes, from what I've seen of the earlier seasons and the current episodes, he has changed quite a bit. But, for me, it makes sense. He's ten years older, he's lost people he's loved, he's been through a lot. It would make sense that he would harden somewhat and lose that boyish look/behavior/attitude. I guess I find him more appealing now because he actually stands up for himself...I always felt like he was too passive in those early seasons, even when he was fighting with someone. Don't get me wrong, he was sweet and endearing but, after awhile, it could get a bit much for me. But that's just my take on it. Like I've said before, I haven't watched all 10 seasons (only season 1, half of 2, parts of 9, and all of 10).

The thing that I think bothered me the most is how jaded/hardened he's gotten, and I know it makes sense given how much he's been through, as well as the times he just went over the top with the sarcasm and flippant attitude. Yeah I know he's been sarcastic/snarky in the past but I feel it's been a lot more so these past 2 seasons. I don't mind him being sarcastic but I like it more subtle, not so in-your-face. I guess I just don't care for guys who have such an attitude in general.

Not to get too off-topic but I agree with Pitry. Just because there isn't screentime for a pairing doesn't mean that the friendship has died. After 10 years together, how could it? I really just started watching SG-1 during season 10, and while there have only been few D/S scenes...I've always felt that there was a deep friendship there. It was never explicitly stated, it was just something I felt from the scenes I watched. I guess it's like when you get so comfortable with someone that you don't need to explain how you feel, or what your relationship is. I think DV got more attention because it was newer, the characters (as seen in "Unending") were clearly unsure of where they stood with one another. Just look at their scenes in that episode and then the one with D/S and you can really see the difference. There is just a level of comfort between D/S that I don't think D/V has at this point, hence why we're getting more explanation of their relationship and how it works.

-Stef

But, see, that's what I don't understand. You can assume that just because they were friends together for ten years, they're still friends. Well, can't you equally assume that something could have happened to hurt their friendship? Why do we even need to assume? I'll bring up the offscreen movie thing from other posts here too. Isn't what happens on screen all that counts? I mean, with the various ships, we can take what we're given and say, "Okay, off screen, they did this and got together, etc." but it's not fact because we didn't see it play out onscreen. We can believe that something happened or something exists all we want, but only when something is established onscreen can people really use it as fact, as proof.

As far as Unending goes, I never wanted to see S/D get more scenes than D/V. I just wanted some tribute to their friendship, no matter how big or small, and it never came. I guess you could argue it was in that one little scene, and maybe that works, but I just don't know. I was expecting some kind of tribute to the three of them (D/S/T) as they were friends for so long, and I felt that the reason they couldn't do that was because of all the D/V stuff. JMHO of course.

Sorry if none of this makes much sense- I have a pounding headache right now and not thinking too clearly

[gioia]

Hehehe, yeah last week was something, wasn't it???

Okay here is a little something, something that I saved from Nefertiti to help with the nostalgia and so you can get a good dose of Dala....

Unending...

Spoiler:

eheheh thanks, hon! great gif
You're really a sweetheart

[Stef]

I'm working on a new website
I can host your videos if you want

If anyone needs a host for videos, images or a website send me a PM

Ooh, that would be awesome, thanks I'm working on an image-only site (well, I was hoping to link to fics vids....but I don't have enough money for a REAL site ).

Day shift reporting for duty lol.


Hehe thanks for the offer, Stef... It's on the use of the census as a historical tool in measuring the 'future and current health of minority languages'. And I fell asleep on top of it yesterday, so it's still not done *head desk* Hence fic writing and random paint immaturity I woke up late deliberately this morning because I just know that I'm on an all nighter tonight *sigh* I refuse to fail the year over this piddly little 2000 word essay, so i shall grit my teeth and alternate with lurking


On the 'discussion' thread... Meh. I lurked for a little while, but it trashed my Zen by being so anti, rather than discussion. I stopped before I would have posted and offended some people by being ... less tactful... than my usual, zenlike self.


WHAT?! How can they be removing music vids??? Is it disclaimer issues? WHAT??? Stef, I love that vid! *weeps* If someone did it because they're anti or whatever, that's just sad.

Ha! I like how we've divided into day and night shifts. At least we are keeping the thread front and center. Although, I am breaking that up by making an appearance during the day (I have a two hour break between classes).

Um...yeah...can't help you with that, Kales. But that's only because I have NO FREAKING IDEA what you're talking about

As for the "discussion" thread...I posted again. This time a crazily long rant about story vs. character. I'm sure someone will take offense, but I just had to get it off my chest.

Last week at this hours we all were waiting for Unending..and a couple of hours later we were squeeeeeing like crazy. It's so done now until the movies, I'm feeling a little nostalgic, i guessand it only passed one week..
I need my weekly-Dala dose, dammit!!

I am right there with you. I always spend my break in the computer lab begging people for spoilers. Now I find myself without any episode to discuss. I feel like a tradition has died...I'm so melodramatic! Maybe I'll just go jump off a cliff to support that idea even further

Six months is WAAAAAAYYYYYY too long. On the positive side, I watched the end of "Unending" again and just thought I'd remind everyone that we got the last scene ever of the show SG-1. Daniel and Vala are the last two figures to walk through the gate together as the screen fades to black. A hint of the future? I hope so

-Stef

[JessM]

Okay Stef, I really have to say something here and I really hope you won't take offense because you are a nice person and I don't want to hurt your feelings... but I have to say this.

While we may love seeing D/S talk, is their relationship going anywhere? Is their talk leading to something? Since the clear establishment of the S/J and D/V ships, it seems unlikely that the writers are going to go for a D/S romance (sorry ). So we are left with scenes between two friends who have known each other for years. But unless there is going to be a testing of that relationship, their bond is going to stay the same regardless of how many scenes they share. So it would seem that the scenes between these two characters would just be more affirmation about how much they care for one another rather than any kind of new advancement in the plot or their friendship. Although it’s a sad way to look at things, I think the question becomes: who’s relationship will benefit the most from a scene? Since D/S have been clearly established as friends, that would move their scenes down the list of things that need to be addressed. D/V, on the other hand, isn’t secure, isn’t established. We aren’t sure of where these two stand with one another.

I’m not trying to minimize D/S here, I am just saying what I think is true of the nature of the show, of television in general. Does it make it okay that D/V gets privileged over D/S? No. But perhaps it explains why they do. Hopefully that makes sense and wasn’t just some long, drawn-out rambling on my account. Please don’t take offense and think I am trying to tear any pairing down, because that’s not what I’m trying to do here. It’s just the way I see the dynamic of the show working, for better or worse

-Stef

Okay, well, isn't the thing about some ships being "established" more a matter of opinion than fact? I mean I know some people who say that S/J (and now D/V) is canon, no ifs ands or buts, but I know lots of other people who ship them who say it's more in the eye of the beholder. So I don't really think it's fair to say that a ship is actually established or canon. But that's just me (*ducks the heavy and pointed objects aimed at her fron*).

Second, as I mentioned in my earlier post, I've been going on about D/S FRIENDship here, not romance. I really don't need anyone to tell me that a romance between D&S will never happen because it's something I know already. I know the writers would never ever entertain the thought because it's just so disgusting and immoral. So I hardly ever ship on the show anymore - I'm more of a FRIENDshipper, thus the friendships mean a lot to me. I leave the shipping to fanfic mostly.

So, now that I have that out of the way, I hope everyone understands. And since you've related it to D/V, I have a question for you. If Daniel and Vala are together, do you think Daniel would still be friends with Sam? Do you think he'd still want to bother with her, talk with her, do things with her, etc., like he'd done in the past? I personally know people who just totally stopped bothering with their friends once they hooked up with someone and I'd hope Daniel wouldn't be the type to do that.

Also, I don't see it as a really good excuse not to show ANY scenes between them (or Daniel and Teal'c for that matter so that you don't think I'm just talking about D/S). This show used to show the friendships really well, even in S7 and 8. And heck, there were no new developments for Sam and Daniel's friendships back then, yet we still had nice friendship scenes between them. They may not have been much but they were nice, light-hearted shows of friendship for the most part. Just because we know they are friends (well, supposedly anyway) doesn't mean they can't have any screentime together whatsoever.

I think I'm talking myself in circles now so I'll stop. I really hope I haven't made any enemies here and I'm sorry I keep harping on the apparent (at least to me) death of the D/S friendship. But again let me stress that I'm not talking about D/S romance, I'm talking about friendship only. I know tptb aren't going that route and I've known it for a long time.

I really hope no one hates me or gives me neg rep... I meant no offense to anyone... it's just hard to keep up here and I don't know, I just feel like no one understands my point of view sometimes.

[poundpuppy29]

I would love love it if D&V would be in the 3rd series but we will just have to wait and see.