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    Sorry in advance for the babble...

    I can see a change in attitude on Daniel's part towards Vala in this ep, more so than in the previous eps. At the end of TTTB I noticed that look after Vala waved at Teal'c and I think then is when he starts 'softening' his attitude towards her.

    In TPTB he is frustrated at the beginning, even more so when she begins talking in a goa'uldish voice and for her encouraging the villagers to believe she is still Qetesh.

    When she does tell the villagers the truth she's trusting him that they'll believe her and wants to encourage the villagers not to fall for the Prior's words. When they imprison her, not only is she questionning her trust in him, he's kicking himself coz he let her down. Most of his frustration towards her in that scene feels like it's his own frustration at himself coming out on her. If she hadn't been imprisoned what would he have done? Probably given her some kind of speech where how good the truth feels, then told her he was proud of her for doing the right thing? I bet it was a huge step for someone like Vala to do that, admit her lies to people who were quite willing to believe them, and put her own neck on the line by doing so. He would've recognized that (and did) and rewarded her someway. ( think of that what you may )

    Instead he feels like he let her down and moves to right his wrong by arguing her case in the Mal Doran.

    When Vala helps the villagers with the healing device it's not for any personal gain and while I doubt it's the first time ever she's done that, I bet it's been a while. The more irritated and frustrated Vala gets, the more Daniel seems to see that she's not doing this for herself, perhaps not even to redeem herself, especially when she begins to admit defeat. When she's sitting on the steps to Qetesh's throne, hand device idle and he comes to her, he's there to encourage her and comfort her. At that point I think Daniel is beginning to see the Vala behind the mask. Again, what could've happened if Mitchell hadn't interrupted? He knew she was upset but had to go tend to the villager who got sick again.

    When she's crying over the dead villager he doesn't touch her, but lowers his voice, assuring her that she did everything she could. Again, seeing the Vala that is hidden.

    The big thing for me is mostly that. If I watch D/V interaction at the beginning of the episode it's much different than towards the end. Haven't watched the next ep in a while so I'm not sure how it continues or if Vala goes back to her usual self.

    Actually watching this ep for about the third time tonight as I write this and again I've thought of something else. When Vala is packing up Qetesh's treasure I wonder if she's scared to tell them the truth and hiding it behind the 'I'm in it for myself' attitude and/or trying to convince SG-1 that by telling the villagers the truth will force them into believing the Ori. Is she scared of what they will do to her after what happened to her previously? Or more scared of what they will think of her/damaging her pride. Daniel's angry and argues with her and rants but then when he grabs her arms, he begins to plead with her to trust him. That's a pretty big leap of faith for Vala to take, but she does anyway.

    Ok, think I've gone around and around with this and it's taking me far too long to post it...

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      k i'm out for the night now...and hour and a half after i originally planned to leave

      have a good one!

      ciao bellas

      nat
      My Fic: LJ & FF.net

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        though the show ended on a sad note. I believe that Daniel and Vala were the obvious choice to be together. I beleive from Prometheus Unbound, she definitely had a thing for him in the beginning, though whether she could trust him was going to be evident thru future episodes. I think Beach head was a true first test of Daniels feelings for Vala. I don't think he really realized it until she wasn't around to pester him.

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          Favorite Quote:

          Daniel: Well, I personally know without a doubt the Priors are bad.
          Vala: So creepy.

          (just something about the way she says that makes it a favorite..)


          Vala: Feel my forehead, am I hot? Hotter than usual?
          (She grabs Daniel's hand, placing it on her forehead and covering it with her own.)
          Well, you know what I mean.


          Daniel: You have to keep trying. I mean, at least put on a show, keep their hopes up. I mean, we know you can do that.
          Vala: See, this is exactly why I never even think about trying to help people. I'm terrible at it! Because of me, these poor souls are either going to die horribly, or they're going to give into the Prior in the hopes that he'll heal them.
          Daniel: It is not because of you!
          Vala: I cannot make them better! And if I hadn't been so worried about my precious treasure, I would never have opened my big, fat mouth, and we never would have come here!
          Daniel: And these people would still have had to either convert to Origin or face the consequences. And that's a dilemma the rest of our galaxy is also going to have to worry about.

          (I like that we're getting some real feeling from Vala here, even if it is guilt. This scene... deep down she cares far more than she lets on. In a lot of ways this was a pivotal episode and kind of raw in it's own way.)



          Favorite picture: I've got a couple.

          Spoiler:

          Vala: We could try shooting them. You said the Priors are human, right? A few well-aimed shots might at least get their attention.




          Daniel: Well, you study enough religions, you find that killing the missionaries doesn't combat the overall philosophy.

          Vala: Problem is that what the Priors are offering sounds quite good, until you get to the whole prostrating and burning people alive bits.

          (It's not so much that they say anything in particular here that we didn't know, it's just that when Vala suggest shooting them, Daniel doesn't get the annoyed smirk, he gets the amused smirk, complete with eye roll. Heh. )


          Favorite scene:


          Vala: Then you are useless to us.
          [she shoots at the Prior]

          I seriously love this scene, and there's something about it that is very Farscape. IMHO, Claudia Black was channeling Aeryn here and it worked.




          It's just a nice honest little scene for them, I love the camera work, and the blocking..
          Renny Roo, the Keeper Of the Fruitcakes

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            Originally posted by Toomi View Post


            <snip>

            Actually watching this ep for about the third time tonight as I write this and again I've thought of something else. When Vala is packing up Qetesh's treasure I wonder if she's scared to tell them the truth and hiding it behind the 'I'm in it for myself' attitude and/or trying to convince SG-1 that by telling the villagers the truth will force them into believing the Ori. Is she scared of what they will do to her after what happened to her previously? Or more scared of what they will think of her/damaging her pride. Daniel's angry and argues with her and rants but then when he grabs her arms, he begins to plead with her to trust him. That's a pretty big leap of faith for Vala to take, but she does anyway.
            Wow, you always come up with such amazing insights It's so true, that Vala does (for the first time) really go against all of her fears and places her trust in another person, places her life in another person's hands. I do think Daniel feels badly about the outcome, here he was trying to do get Vala to do the right thing for once and it completely backfires (and might kill her).

            I've always found this episode to be one of the most significant episodes in the Daniel/Vala relationship. For the first time we see Vala lower her walls, and we see that she isn't only out for herself. I think she wants to help the people against the Prior but I also think that there's a part of her that isn't proud of her past, and she does want become a good person. It's only after Daniel says "you'll feel so good about yourself" that she begins to weaken. Does this imply that perhaps she isn't quite as happy with who she is as she claims to be? That despite outwards appearances she really does want to change, to feel like she's done some good? Maybe part of her recognizes that she has done very little to show that she's any different than Qetesh. She claims she is throughout the episode, that she was a merciful God and all that, but like someone said on Farscape the other night "when we repeat a lie, it usually means we're trying to convince ourselves."

            Originally posted by RinggoldGate
            DANIEL(takes a deep breath)Believe me, it is not going to come to that…trust me.
            [Vala gasps and sits down on the bench, back turned to Daniel. Daniel rolls his eyes at his poor choice of words.]
            DANIEL(wincing)…this time.
            Love that part. Probably THE WORST choice of words. I love Vala's outrage when he says it too!

            -Stef

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              Originally posted by Hazmot View Post
              though the show ended on a sad note. I believe that Daniel and Vala were the obvious choice to be together. I beleive from Prometheus Unbound, she definitely had a thing for him in the beginning, though whether she could trust him was going to be evident thru future episodes. I think Beach head was a true first test of Daniels feelings for Vala. I don't think he really realized it until she wasn't around to pester him.
              Hazmot!! Welcome!! I'm so glad you made it! What did you think of Vala's 6th episode: The Powers that Be?

              And g'night Nat!
              ||My Fanfiction: FF.net & My LJ || Vala Multi-Shipping LJ Comm||

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                Originally posted by Stef View Post
                Wow, you always come up with such amazing insights It's so true, that Vala does (for the first time) really go against all of her fears and places her trust in another person, places her life in another person's hands. I do think Daniel feels badly about the outcome, here he was trying to do get Vala to do the right thing for once and it completely backfires (and might kill her).

                I've always found this episode to be one of the most significant episodes in the Daniel/Vala relationship. For the first time we see Vala lower her walls, and we see that she isn't only out for herself. I think she wants to help the people against the Prior but I also think that there's a part of her that isn't proud of her past, and she does want become a good person. It's only after Daniel says "you'll feel so good about yourself" that she begins to weaken. Does this imply that perhaps she isn't quite as happy with who she is as she claims to be? That despite outwards appearances she really does want to change, to feel like she's done some good? Maybe part of her recognizes that she has done very little to show that she's any different than Qetesh. She claims she is throughout the episode, that she was a merciful God and all that, but like someone said on Farscape the other night "when we repeat a lie, it usually means we're trying to convince ourselves."


                Love that part. Probably THE WORST choice of words. I love Vala's outrage when he says it too!

                -Stef

                Stef, you're a'makin me blush... Perhaps it's because I'm watching for ship as I didn't before. Look at what you guys are doing to me!!!! not that it's a bad thing...

                As to the question about Vala not being as happy with herself... I wonder if it's the fact that she's been on the base for a while now (if you go by theory that each ep happens a month apart, discouting those eps that run together ) it's been about 2-3 months. She's seen how SG-1 interacts, how other teams interract and perhaps by this point is beginning to want to be a part of it. Human nature isn't generally solitary, we all crave attention/a social environment and she's been alone, not settling down, not getting close to anyone for some time. Just admiting she's lonely to herself is already not being happy with her life. When Daniel says to trust him, it's almost like asking her to disregard what she's used to, what she knows. By trusting him she's admiting to herself that she's not happy with the way things were....
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                  Welcome Hazmot!!
                  Renny Roo, the Keeper Of the Fruitcakes

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                    Okay have finally caught up on everything.
                    First off LOVE THIS EPISODE! Great for Vala's character and for D/V shippers, We get a true insight into Vala's character. Unfortunately the episode was cut down (yes I've listened to the commentary).
                    On a side note I saw SG1 season ten in a Target catalogue so that means it must be out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm excited ALso laptop is at shop so I am sad.
                    Congrats to Ren was it? on 100 posts

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                      Interesting thing I just picked up during the play...the "villain" opposing Qetesh is Ba'al. The villager asks her to have mercy on him. Ha!

                      -Stef

                      PHOTOBUCKET // WEBSITE // LIVEJOURNAL---------------------------------------------------------

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                        Originally posted by CrazyLikeaFox View Post
                        Okay have finally caught up on everything.
                        First off LOVE THIS EPISODE! Great for Vala's character and for D/V shippers, We get a true insight into Vala's character. Unfortunately the episode was cut down (yes I've listened to the commentary).
                        On a side note I saw SG1 season ten in a Target catalogue so that means it must be out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm excited ALso laptop is at shop so I am sad.
                        Congrats to Ren was it? on 100 posts
                        Nope, not me lol.
                        But I'm braindead tonight and can't remember who it was, I wanna say Susan...
                        Renny Roo, the Keeper Of the Fruitcakes

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                          Originally posted by Odakota_Rose View Post
                          Nope, not me lol.
                          But I'm braindead tonight and can't remember who it was, I wanna say Susan...
                          Well then congrats to Susan my bad

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                            Since there seems to be a slight lull in talk, let me think up some questions....

                            Spinning off of Toomi and I's discussion...

                            1. Why do you think Daniel eventually takes a softer sell, appealing to Vala's sense of right and wrong? Up until this point he has given her little credit for caring about other people, tending to jump to the worst conclusion first. Is he just trying anything he can to convince her, or do you think it's something else?

                            2. Why do you think Vala ultimately decides to trust Daniel? Is it because she believes he and the rest of SG-1 will protect her, or is it concern for the villagers, or perhaps a genuine desire to do the right thing/make up for past wrongs? Or do you think it is something else?

                            3. Despite all of his griping about how much she annoys him, Daniel deliberately stays close to Vala (ie sitting and talking to her in the prison cell)--eventhough he could be sitting with Teal'c & Mitchell. Why do you think he chooses to do this?

                            4. We see a shift in Daniel's treatment of Vala in this episode, what of Teal'c and Mitchell? How do you think they feel about Vala at this point?

                            5. (and just for speculations sake) How old do you think Vala was when she was taken host? The episode says it has been 4 years since the symbiote was removed. How long do you think she was host to Qetesh?

                            6. Similar to Avalon Pt.1, Vala once again gets testy when Daniel calls into question her motives and character (claiming she only healed the sick man because she thought there would be a reward). Why?

                            Feel free to answer how many you like

                            -Stef

                            PHOTOBUCKET // WEBSITE // LIVEJOURNAL---------------------------------------------------------

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                              If you haven't been voting, take a minute to cast your vote for BEST HAIRDOS. It's down to Vala and Shep. I like both but I'm sorry, Vala has infinitely more variety She's losing right now but even just a few new voters can change that. And don't forget to vote for D/V moments (link is in my sig). There are a number of TPTB moments that are in a position to place.

                              -Stef

                              PHOTOBUCKET // WEBSITE // LIVEJOURNAL---------------------------------------------------------

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                                I think that Daniel knows yelling at her isn't going to work so he tries to appeal to her morality, which he believes she has. He then feels very guilty for having this show of trust blow up in her face, so he stays with her. There isn't enough screen time between Vala and the other two boys to see a huge difference but I think that her and Mitchell get along better (big for C/V shippers).
                                I always though Vala was in her early mid to late twenties when she was taken though Family ties kinda blew that up in my face.

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