Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[Nerwen]

That makes sense.

Michael Shanks also once said, I believe around season 7, that Jack and Daniel are the core realtionship on Stargate. Regardless of the slash thing, do you agree?

Imo during the first 3 season that could apply but them it seems that the "core relationship" became the Sam and Jack thing. When I think of the scene with all of them fishing and Sam and Jack were at the dock and Teal´c and Daniel were seperate.

[sueKay]

Just jumping in here to say please take some of what the actors say with a pinch of salt. Whether or not the actors are invested in their characters, or if it's just a job to them, they have a totally different outlook on the show from us. They don't tend to watch episodes back (if I was an actor I wouldn't because I'd just cringe watching myself), and they're not going to remember every little detail.

(humorous example - Atlantis had the Whale arc featuring McKay who is terrified of whales because his dad read him Moby Dick as a kid. David Hewlett as a sci fi fan probably knows a lot more about the ins and outs of his show than most actors do, but when asked to name the book that gave McKay nightmares...he answered "The Hungry Caterpillar" because he simply didn't remember the stuff with the whales and this was despite people in the audiene trying to help him guess!)

I doubt that RDA holds S/J in disdain, and I feel that he and MS take Jack/Daniel as a running joke, or an in-joke (let's face it - anyone who casually watched SG1 Will have noticed S/J's chemistry...the only ones really aware of J/D are the hardcore fanbase).

I'd take RDA's answer as humorous (he definitely does like absurdist humour after all)

Actors can stop ships from happening. Kate Mulgrew put a stop to Janeway and Chakotay on Voyager after all, and there's likely other examples.

But RDA was also one of the show runners for a number of years. If he had been really opposed to S/J it would not have happened. It would have been nipped in the bud after The Broca Divide.

I would not take his comments to heart.

[Fresh_Horse]

That makes sense.

Michael Shanks also once said, I believe around season 7, that Jack and Daniel are the core realtionship on Stargate. Regardless of the slash thing, do you agree?

Imo during the first 3 season that could apply but them it seems that the "core relationship" became the Sam and Jack thing. When I think of the scene with all of them fishing and Sam and Jack were at the dock and Teal´c and Daniel were seperate.

Stargate SG1 is about a team, it's not about the relationship between two people, neither was the original movie.

The dynamics within the team changed over the course of the show. People left, others came on board. Guess who stayed through all of the 10 seasons? Sam and Teal'c.

[SamJackShipper93]

That makes sense.

Michael Shanks also once said, I believe around season 7, that Jack and Daniel are the core realtionship on Stargate. Regardless of the slash thing, do you agree?

Imo during the first 3 season that could apply but them it seems that the "core relationship" became the Sam and Jack thing. When I think of the scene with all of them fishing and Sam and Jack were at the dock and Teal´c and Daniel were seperate.

I’m not sure what/if Michael said anything of that nature, I wouldn’t read into it as “slash,” especially when we don’t have an actual quote.

However, it wouldn’t surprise me if he had some something to that effect. I don’t like to spread information I can’t back up with a source (so please don’t take my interpretation as gospel), but if I remember correctly, a big part of the reason Michael left after Season 5 was that the writers weren’t using his character very effectively. Part of me sees why he would feel this way. Sha’re was gone, and the Shifu, the Harcesis child was never really explored, so in a way, the motivations that Daniel had at the beginning of the show were completely gone (even Apophis had been killed in early Season 5). But at the same time, I think there are periods when each of the characters is underused, and necessarily so, when it’s a show about a team.

Michael saw that the writers were underutilizing Daniel and conversely, he felt that they were overutilizing Sam. Honestly, I could see how he’d think that given all of the episodes in Season 4 (not necessarily shippy, just Sam and Jack centric). He felt that it was becoming too much of the Jack/Sam show instead of the Jack/Daniel show, and I don’t mean that in a slashy way at all.

Many of us are “newer” fans (meaning not around when the show first aired), and in 2015, it’s easy to forget that the Stargate movie started with Jack O’Neill and Daniel Jackson. Jack and Daniel were both considered the leads of the show and were billed as such (Of course, Rick’s fame gave him a significant edge over Michael, who wasn’t well known at the time).

A note on that below:

Spoiler:

From Season 1 through Season 5, Rick and Michael’s names were listed first in the credits, with Amanda third and Chris fourth and Don fifth. After Michael returned in Season 7, the credits changed and part of the negotiation was that Michael’s name would be presented last, with the additional “as Daniel Jackson” accompanying his name (it remained that way all throughout SG-1 and even when Rick, Amanda, and Michael were billed as guest actors in SGU, Michael’s name was still the last one seen. Actors often negotiate for that position because it’s believed that viewers will most easily remember the first name listed and the last name listed.

(What’s funny is that by doing this, in my opinion, is that when Michael did this, it bumped Amanda up to second listed, which I feel put her more in the traditional position of leading lady, sooo… I was okay with the change!)

I’m not justifying Michael’s thoughts or actions at all. Personally, I think leaving the show was a childish move and I’ve never lost the sense that he does have a bit of a prideful attitude. Amanda felt that Sam was grossly underutilized in Season 10 after Vala made SG-1 a five-man team, but I really appreciate that she didn’t pitch a fit. She accepted a position on SGA, where Sam was still relatively underutilized, and originally signed on for the fifth season as well before Sanctuary took off.

I don’t know. I’ve just always felt that those situations really reflect on the actors, and I really see a difference between pride and grace.

[Zoser]

Just jumping in here to say please take some of what the actors say with a pinch of salt. Whether or not the actors are invested in their characters, or if it's just a job to them, they have a totally different outlook on the show from us. They don't tend to watch episodes back (if I was an actor I wouldn't because I'd just cringe watching myself), and they're not going to remember every little detail.

(humorous example - Atlantis had the Whale arc featuring McKay who is terrified of whales because his dad read him Moby Dick as a kid. David Hewlett as a sci fi fan probably knows a lot more about the ins and outs of his show than most actors do, but when asked to name the book that gave McKay nightmares...he answered "The Hungry Caterpillar" because he simply didn't remember the stuff with the whales and this was despite people in the audiene trying to help him guess!)

I doubt that RDA holds S/J in disdain, and I feel that he and MS take Jack/Daniel as a running joke, or an in-joke (let's face it - anyone who casually watched SG1 Will have noticed S/J's chemistry...the only ones really aware of J/D are the hardcore fanbase).

I'd take RDA's answer as humorous (he definitely does like absurdist humour after all)

Actors can stop ships from happening. Kate Mulgrew put a stop to Janeway and Chakotay on Voyager after all, and there's likely other examples.

But RDA was also one of the show runners for a number of years. If he had been really opposed to S/J it would not have happened. It would have been nipped in the bud after The Broca Divide.

I would not take his comments to heart.

Hey SueKay it's been a long time. I totally agree.
These actors do many takes of a scene and very few ever watch the end result - the ones we obsess over.
See if you can remember a job done 20 years ago.
They memorize a script, run lines, rehearse, do more takes than they'd care to and then do it again and again for the next scene and not always in the progression of the plot. Then if they are lucky they go home and actually have a life.
Give them a break.

[sueKay]

Hey SueKay it's been a long time. I totally agree.
These actors do many takes of a scene and very few ever watch the end result - the ones we obsess over.
See if you can remember a job done 20 years ago.
They memorize a script, run lines, rehearse, do more takes than they'd care to and then do it again and again for the next scene and not always in the progression of the plot. Then if they are lucky they go home and actually have a life.
Give them a break.

Yup Zoser, it's been a long time, but I've been back lurking for a while

How are you?

I also know if I were an actor, I probably wouldn't be doing conventions (though I may turn up disguised in cosplay to just geek out!!)

For me what matters is what's on-screen, and maybe the odd deleted scene *cough* Atlantis Trio *cough*

[Zoser]

Emancipation
1. Helmets! They all should probably really wear them but they're actors not soldiers.
2. Those are not Mongol ponies
3. Shoulda listened to Daniel and go back home
4. Don't listen to Daniel and stay.
5. The lure of drugs
6. The 'proper attire' shows off more of Sam's attributes than her BDU's
7. "It kinda works for me" and "Samantha" compliments or is Jackgiving her a hard time?
8. Split up the team - big mistake
9. There are two guys kidnapping Sam. Abu had help
10. Using to make or cement bond was not unusual in our not too distant past.
11. Paying a bride price or conversely a dowry again not unusual in our not too distant past.
12. warrior and scholar - yea Carter!
13 Seems like a awful fancy dress to be chopping veg in
14. Sam after the escape attempt is in a different dress - muddy? or was she assaulted?
15. Food on the spit does not look appetizing
16 "Oh there's not a chance in hell"
17. They burned the flat bread.
18. "She is difficult" yes!
19. "Carter is a woman of power" yes!
20. "You have nothing I want" "Oh yeah" Deal! Does Jack own Sam? Don't tell her.
21. They brought her uniform.
22. "Since when are you a politician?" Sam does not knuckle under to the Colonel.
23. Was there an agreement before hand that Sam would fight? If not I'm surprised Jack would permit it.
24. If any of those knives (I know they are rubber) were sharp there would be blood, lots of blood.
25. They have obviously been on quite a few missions already.

[Zoser]

Yup Zoser, it's been a long time, but I've been back lurking for a while

How are you?

I also know if I were an actor, I probably wouldn't be doing conventions (though I may turn up disguised in cosplay to just geek out!!)

For me what matters is what's on-screen, and maybe the odd deleted scene *cough* Atlantis Trio *cough*

Yes, there is a lot left on the cutting room floor. These could shape the show quite differently.
The director and the editor and the music shape the work of the writers and the actors.
Doing fine! I have to go make supper, it's my husband's birthday and he is ancient. Sad thing is we are the same age.

[hedwig]

That makes sense.

Michael Shanks also once said, I believe around season 7, that Jack and Daniel are the core realtionship on Stargate. Regardless of the slash thing, do you agree?

Imo during the first 3 season that could apply but them it seems that the "core relationship" became the Sam and Jack thing. When I think of the scene with all of them fishing and Sam and Jack were at the dock and Teal´c and Daniel were seperate.

He also said that when he was hired to be on SG1, he was given the impression that SG1 was supposed to be a "buddy" show between Jack and Daniel, and then it turned into the Sam and Jack Show, which he was highly irritated by. I have a problem with that. If it was supposed to be a buddy show, then why hire two other actors to be part of a team of four?

I never saw Jack and Daniel as the "core relationship" of the team either.

[hedwig]

Emancipation
1. Helmets! They all should probably really wear them but they're actors not soldiers.
2. Those are not Mongol ponies
3. Shoulda listened to Daniel and go back home
4. Don't listen to Daniel and stay.
5. The lure of drugs
6. The 'proper attire' shows off more of Sam's attributes than her BDU's
7. "It kinda works for me" and "Samantha" compliments or is Jackgiving her a hard time?
8. Split up the team - big mistake
9. There are two guys kidnapping Sam. Abu had help
10. Using to make or cement bond was not unusual in our not too distant past.
11. Paying a bride price or conversely a dowry again not unusual in our not too distant past.
12. warrior and scholar - yea Carter!
13 Seems like a awful fancy dress to be chopping veg in
14. Sam after the escape attempt is in a different dress - muddy? or was she assaulted?
15. Food on the spit does not look appetizing
16 "Oh there's not a chance in hell"
17. They burned the flat bread.
18. "She is difficult" yes!
19. "Carter is a woman of power" yes!
20. "You have nothing I want" "Oh yeah" Deal! Does Jack own Sam? Don't tell her.
21. They brought her uniform.
22. "Since when are you a politician?" Sam does not knuckle under to the Colonel.
23. Was there an agreement before hand that Sam would fight? If not I'm surprised Jack would permit it.
24. If any of those knives (I know they are rubber) were sharp there would be blood, lots of blood.
25. They have obviously been on quite a few missions already.

I have always wondered about this. I have no doubt that Genghis Khan (or whatever his name was ) would not have hesitated to beat the crap out of Sam for challenging his authority and not given her a break just because she didn't know their ways. And when he was finished beating her, she would have been given a different dress.

I've read several fics about just this happening to her. And she didn't say a thing to the rest of the team when they showed up (whether just to spite them or to show them how strong she was) and didn't let on when she was fighting the king. I've always had a bit of a problem with that fight, since given how ruthless he was, he really should have won that fight. But, of course, if he had, Sam would have been dead and that's not acceptable.

[sueKay]

He also said that when he was hired to be on SG1, he was given the impression that SG1 was supposed to be a "buddy" show between Jack and Daniel, and then it turned into the Sam and Jack Show, which he was highly irritated by. I have a problem with that. If it was supposed to be a buddy show, then why hire two other actors to be part of a team of four?

I never saw Jack and Daniel as the "core relationship" of the team either.

I find that a bit odd considering Amanda, Michael and Chris are known to have 'gravitated' towards each other during the rounds of auditions and become friends, and the show was 'SG-1', not 'Stargate - The continuing adventures of Jack and Daniel'.

For me the core of the show was always ALL the interactions between the 4 members of the team, and it wasn't just the loss of Jack in later seasons that muted my enjoyment of the show, it's when other characters outside that team dynamic suddenly got more time devoted to them. I didn't really care much about Vala, and Landry got more to do in 2 years than Hammond got in 7. Oh well.

[SamJackShipper93]

Emancipation

14. Sam after the escape attempt is in a different dress - muddy? or was she assaulted?

This is something I've always wondered about. It's like they didn't want to take a stance on what happened (which, you know, will become a running theme ... we never really know how far Jonah and Thera went in BtS...).

I've always assumed that she was whipped after Turghan kissed her, and she needed a change of clothes after the blue dress got ripped up. I just can't imagine that Turghan would have allowed Sam to go unpunished after her outburst, and Nya's "I heard what you did for my mother" seems to imply a transfer of the punishment she would have gotten.

I really don't think Sam was assaulted (that awful kiss notwithstanding) at this time, though Turghan certainly had the opportunity then, but that's an assumption that comes from my belief that the writers would never have done that (Amanda often said that she and Christ got off easy in the early seasons because the writers wouldn't do anything to the woman or the black man). Also, I think that by virtue of having the "oh, there's not a chance in hell" part come after this scene, the viewers are meant to imply that Turghan has not yet "partaken."

I wish that would have been a bit more clear; I hate having to make so many assumptions regarding what the characters have gone through. Amanda never really acted like Sam had been whipped - oh goodness, Sam would have been in so much pain during that knife fight if she had - but I assume that that was also part of the leaving-it-up-to-the-viewers-to-decide trick.

What do other people think? Is there enough present in the episode to assume that she was beaten?

[Akamaimom]

,

This is something I've always wondered about. It's like they didn't want to take a stance on what happened (which, you know, will become a running theme ... we never really know how far Jonah and Thera went in BtS...).

I've always assumed that she was whipped after Turghan kissed her, and she needed a change of clothes after the blue dress got ripped up. I just can't imagine that Turghan would have allowed Sam to go unpunished after her outburst, and Nya's "I heard what you did for my mother" seems to imply a transfer of the punishment she would have gotten.

I really don't think Sam was assaulted (that awful kiss notwithstanding) at this time, though Turghan certainly had the opportunity then, but that's an assumption that comes from my belief that the writers would never have done that (Amanda often said that she and Christ got off easy in the early seasons because the writers wouldn't do anything to the woman or the black man). Also, I think that by virtue of having the "oh, there's not a chance in hell" part come after this scene, the viewers are meant to imply that Turghan has not yet "partaken."

I wish that would have been a bit more clear; I hate having to make so many assumptions regarding what the characters have gone through. Amanda never really acted like Sam had been whipped - oh goodness, Sam would have been in so much pain during that knife fight if she had - but I assume that that was also part of the leaving-it-up-to-the-viewers-to-decide trick.

What do other people think? Is there enough present in the episode to assume that she was beaten?

I, personally, don't think that Sam was beaten by Turghan. I think that he viewed her as a commodity, and you don't damage something you mean to trade away - it'd be like tearing up money. I think that he sent her to live with the wives and other women because he wanted to get her out of his hair for the time being, and wanted to see if he really had made a bad deal. Also, he might think that being put in with the common women, and not dressed like a princess (or whatever that was supposed to be) might put her in a position of feeling shamed or being "put in her place".

I don't believe that he raped her, either. Sam proves rather handily during the knife fight at the end that she can beat him in a fight. And THAT would have been a fight.

[SamJackShipper93]

Just jumping in here to say please take some of what the actors say with a pinch of salt. Whether or not the actors are invested in their characters, or if it's just a job to them, they have a totally different outlook on the show from us. They don't tend to watch episodes back (if I was an actor I wouldn't because I'd just cringe watching myself), and they're not going to remember every little detail.

(humorous example - Atlantis had the Whale arc featuring McKay who is terrified of whales because his dad read him Moby Dick as a kid. David Hewlett as a sci fi fan probably knows a lot more about the ins and outs of his show than most actors do, but when asked to name the book that gave McKay nightmares...he answered "The Hungry Caterpillar" because he simply didn't remember the stuff with the whales and this was despite people in the audiene trying to help him guess!)

I doubt that RDA holds S/J in disdain, and I feel that he and MS take Jack/Daniel as a running joke, or an in-joke (let's face it - anyone who casually watched SG1 Will have noticed S/J's chemistry...the only ones really aware of J/D are the hardcore fanbase).

I'd take RDA's answer as humorous (he definitely does like absurdist humour after all)

Actors can stop ships from happening. Kate Mulgrew put a stop to Janeway and Chakotay on Voyager after all, and there's likely other examples.

But RDA was also one of the show runners for a number of years. If he had been really opposed to S/J it would not have happened. It would have been nipped in the bud after The Broca Divide.

I would not take his comments to heart.

Haha, I've never heard the Very Hungry Caterpillar story before! That's funny! And seriously, I always feel so bad for actors when the fans try to grill them on such specific things.

At Chicago Con this year, somebody asked Gary Jones about how he interpreted one of Walter's lines from this one scene from this one episode in Season 8... poor guy.

Yes, there is a lot left on the cutting room floor. These could shape the show quite differently.
The director and the editor and the music shape the work of the writers and the actors.
Doing fine! I have to go make supper, it's my husband's birthday and he is ancient. Sad thing is we are the same age.

This made me snort! Happy birthday to your husband!

,

I, personally, don't think that Sam was beaten by Turghan. I think that he viewed her as a commodity, and you don't damage something you mean to trade away - it'd be like tearing up money. I think that he sent her to live with the wives and other women because he wanted to get her out of his hair for the time being, and wanted to see if he really had made a bad deal. Also, he might think that being put in with the common women, and not dressed like a princess (or whatever that was supposed to be) might put her in a position of feeling shamed or being "put in her place".

I don't believe that he raped her, either. Sam proves rather handily during the knife fight at the end that she can beat him in a fight. And THAT would have been a fight.

Indeed.

I'd definitely accept this interpretation! I really love hearing about how others interpret certain scenes or lines, especially when I probably never would have thought of the same conclusion!

[Zoser]

I don't think Sam was assaulted in any way.
Yes, women are a commodity so it would be nuts to hurt her.
But taking her finery, put her in plain clothing and put her to work cooking he thought to humiliate her - put her in her place. But he doesn't know Sam.