Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[majorsal]

I can understadn why Amanda at the beginning had a problem with the pairing, but why Rick? I guess we can be lucky that TPTB were at our side.

rick is a commitment-phobe, and i've felt he's kind of pushed that onto his characters too (subconsciously or not).

i guess actors get sick of answering the same questions all the time, so they like to mix it up a bit with their answers. amanda does that too.

[SamJackShipper93]

I'm the worst. Here I am, trying to run this Episode of the Week thing, and I'm giving my thoughts the day before the episode changes. I just started a new job, so I'm really busy with that, but hopefully my life will settle down soon.

The Enemy Within

Your iris will be closed. They will be crushed.
Surprise!

1. “You don’t think the Goa’uld are sending people through, do you?” Oh, naïve little archaeologist. What did you think the Goa’uld were sending through?
2. “[Teal’c] is what he is.” – Hammond was originally a hard ass character meant to be an antagonistic figure. I’m so glad that that changed fairly quicky.
3. Teal’c is seen meditating when Jack first interrupts him, but if I’m not mistaken, the concept of kel’nor’reem was not added until “Holdiay” in Season 2 (when Jack and Teal’c switch bodies and Jack has to meditate to keep Teal’c’s body healthy).
4. Teal’c’s tattoo is upside down. This is insanely funny to me.
5. Where did the SGC send all of the refugees they brought back from Chulak? If the way that the Goa’uld picked off Sergeant Ketterings and then Sha’re and Skaara are any indication, every few people are from different planets. My guess is that they sent them back to Chulak in the hope that most of the refugees would have known the address to their own worlds and be able to dial the DHD on Chulak to their own worlds (though most of the primitive societies in Stargate didn’t know how to use the ‘gates, soooo…).
6. “Your iris will be closed. They will be crushed.” “Surprise!” – I love this line because of the double meaning of crushed.
7. I love that Teal’c is able to have a bigger role now than then CotG. We still haven’t learned why Teal’c betrayed Apophis or why he doubts the Goa’uld’s godship. But I love that we see Teal’c’s loyalty and devotion and that Jack responds so loyally in turn.
8. Poor Dr. Nimziki never stood a chance. Also, Daniel always gets crap in the early seasons for being weak, but I think that what he lacks in physical strength is made up for in mental/emotional strength. Seriously, he’s trying to hold it together after dealing with Sha’re and then he comes face-to-face with the dead Dr. Nimziki, which … is seriously traumatizing!
9. By establishing that the humans that populate the galaxy were originally from Earth, it gave a reason for why most “aliens” look human (no need for Star Trek-ish raised brow ridges). It was also a unique choice since it established Stargate as an Earth-centric science-fiction show (this was continually reaffirmed by the fact that Earth is also an important location in the Ancient storyline as well). In contrast, the premise of Star Trek was a roving ship that explores the galaxy, with no real emphasis placed on any one location, but I think that Stargate is more relatable to viewers because it sets Earth up as an important location in the galaxy.
10. After they both come to attention, Jack places a hand on Sam’s arm to make sure she’s alright. It’s those subtle moments that I love the best. Okay, maybe not the best, but I love the moments that just happen in the background (like when Jack hugs Sam in the crowd at the end of “The Serpent’s Lair”)
11. Haha, Teal’c crosses both sets of fingers when Dr. Warner tells him to keep his fingers crossed.
12. I really liked Kawalsky and wish that he’d been around longer. I love that this episode fleshes out that Jack and Kawalsky actually are friends, and in “Gamekeeper” we find out that they’ve actually known each other for a long time, which is why I hate that Kawalsky says that he never knew Jack had a son (a son who, for all we know, could have been named after Charles Kawalsky). I’m certainly glad they were able to bring him back for several other episodes. Personally I wish that we’d seen Kawalsky interact more with Sam (you know, when he’s not throwing her around the elevator), since it would have been nice to be able to compare their interactions with the Kawalsky and Dr. Carter who come through in “Point of View.”
13. Holy Hannah. Why is that symbiote so long? Gross, gross, gross, gross, gross.
14. Like I had written before, I’ve never really understood what’s implied at the end of the episode.
- Was Kawalsky ever present after the operation or was it just the Goa’uld using his voice and mannerisms? Was it Kawalsky or the Goa’uld who asked Sam for a moment with Teal’c or when he told Daniel he didn’t want to see “that thing in my head.” I think that it’s the latter given Jack’s line that “my friend died on the table,” but we won’t see a Goa’uld pretending to be the host again until Jolinar pretends to be Sam in “In the Line of Duty.”
- “What they removed was merely a dead husk. I had already become one with the host.” I think that the implication is that melding/blending with the host actually integrates the symbiote’s consciousness with its host so that it’s own physical body no longer is necessary. This particular idea was never explored again.
- However, the head of the symbiote was still in him so maybe it was surviving that way, like a worm that’s been cut in half, and the symbiote was lying when it implied that it was “one with the host.”
15. Poor Nameless Gate Technician (aka Walter) – first time getting hurt while doing his job, but not the last time.

Wizard of Oz Reference: I’m keeping a running list of these!
Jack to Kawalsky: “That’s right, Dorothy. It was all a dream.”

Missed Opportunities:
- I would have loved to have known Sam and Daniel’s thoughts about Teal’c joining the team, since they looked pretty shocked in CotG when Jack suggested it.
- My biggest issue regarding missed opportunities in Season 1 is that we never got to see Teal’c tell Daniel and the rest of the team of his role in Sha’re’s implantation. We never see any tension between Daniel and Teal’c in any episode, dispite the fact that “Cor-ai” tells us that Daniel wanted to hate him and didn’t know if he’d be able to work with Teal’c. To satisfy my desire for this, I have to go to Fanfiction…

Fanfiction:
- Bonding (Aftershocks) (Rachel500)
- Leaning (Campfires) (polrobin)
- A Loss of the Same Size (Marzipan77) - Takes place before "The Enemy Within," and gives a look at the losses that Jack, Daniel, and Teal'c deal with in the aftermath of "Children of the Gods."

[webbo]

Both Rick and Amanda were vehemently against Jack and Sam being together in the beginning: Amanda because she never wanted Sam to look like "Jack's girl" and Rick because of the show's relationship with the Air Force. Of course, the relationship was teased (With that kind of chemistry, Jack and Sam never had a chance of *not* being a couple), but even through Seasons 4 and such, they tried to distance themselves from the Ship and put it behind them. "Divide and Conquer" was supposed to acknowledge that the feelings were there, and then they were going to move on from the whole "relationship" - of course, that didn't happen when D&C was followed by "Window of Opportunity," "Beneath the Surface," and "Entity"...

Amanda requested a new love interest in Season 7, so they dealt with Sam's lingering feelings in "Grace." But somewhere along the line, and I really have no idea when, I think that people (at least the writers) began to realize that Pete was not going to work and when they thought Season 8 would be the final season, they shifted their focus back to Sam and Jack.

Joe Mallozzi, a S/J supporter, said this in his blog:

(this was also what spurred the shipper's nickname for Pete (Potatohead), until we were told to knock it off. )

Season 8 ended, and Rick left. Personally, I don't think that he ever really knew what happened regarding Jack and Sam. If I remember right, at one relatively recent con, someone asked about Jack and Sam and he said, "Didn't she marry the cop?"

After Rick left, the show's close relationship with the Air Force also ended, and the writers felt more comfortable giving hints to the fans about Jack and Sam's relationship, even though the writers weren't all in agreement about what had happened after "Threads."

But it was only post Season 8 that Amanda really got on board with the ship. She recognized all of the little hints that came in Season 9/10 and SGA Season 4, and I think she finally concluded that they were together and had been since "Threads." She also knows that the fans love hearing her talk favorably about the ship, and in recent years, she has often responded in kind.

I absolutely loved your comments on this! Thank you!

[SamJackShipper93]

All right, campers, we're rolling right along! It's time for the very best episode Stargate ever made! I'm sure you'll all agree!

#sarcasm

Episode of the Week
Emancipation

But sass and hashtags aside, we still need to give "Emancipation" it's due! Many thanks to those who are participating!

[Akamaimom]

All right, campers, we're rolling right along! It's time for the very best episode Stargate ever made! I'm sure you'll all agree!

#sarcasm

Episode of the Week
Emancipation

But sass and hashtags aside, we still need to give "Emancipation" it's due! Many thanks to those who are participating!

Actually, I don't really mind Emancipation. I definitely have more to say about it than I do about other episodes.

[SamJackShipper93]

Actually, I don't really mind Emancipation. I definitely have more to say about it than I do about other episodes.

Actually, I agree with you. One of the things I made a note about during my rewatch is that there are definitely worse episodes (particularly coming soon in Season 1). I don't really understand why it's garnered the reputation as the Worst SG-1 Episode Ever, but that's been stated multiple times. Part of me thinks it's Amanda's own vehement hatred for this episode (and That Dress) that people have latched onto.

The thing that I hate most about it is that the dialogue (mainly for the poor guest characters) is so awkward and cheesy that it often feels like a poorly written fanfic. This is especially true when paired with the cliche plot.

At the same time, I do feel like this episode is justified and that the storyline is well within the rights of the Stargate universe. I do think it was important to raise the idea of the dangers of walking into other societies, especially for women on the front-line walking into male-dominated societies.

[RadicalDreamer]

Hi all,

I´m a bit confused, I read RDA saying that at OzComic con this weakend:

"

What kiss? Did I miss something? I´m pretty sure I know all episodes.

And the chemistry thing, did RDA want Jack and Daniel to end up together?

I don´t know if they had more chemistry, rather a different kind of chemistry, with Jack and Daniel it was always fun and relaxed and with Sam and Jack it was angst,...angst and again angst IMO
Knowing RDA (a bit) maybe he liked playing the fun and relaxed relationship with Daniel more than the drama with Sam. Dunno. That´s OK, but as a actor he anyway always has to give his best despite his preference.

It´s a bit strange that the actors (Rick) don´t back up the canon pairing but at least Amanda seems to support the Jack and Sam ship and TPTB.

It's a downer but it had been clear for a while that RDA didn't support the canon ship. And now, he's just admitting he liked the Jack/Daniel thing much more and is willing to have fun with the slashers more than us (but no, jack and daniel never ever kissed... RDA is just giving fanservice to the slashers).

To be honest, the more he talks, the less I like him. I used to admire him as a teen but it's different now. Last time, didn't he call Sam a whore ? And maybe it's petty, but it makes me dislike Jack/Daniel more than i would have before.
At least, Amanda is on our side. But it's always depressing to realize that one of the actors of your OTP was rooting for the opposite ship all along (because i know the jack/daniel had gay subtext in the show, one of the writers said so... and they were called space husbands behind the scenes... i didn't know all this stuff until i went out of the s/j shipper safe zone and felt sort of betrayed and hurt as a result. I mean, it's just that the ship was important to me since i was 14 years old, lonely and depressed. Maybe it was infuriating at times, but it helped me to keep living and feel some love with the shippy scenes and fanfics. Sometimes i feel like watching sg1 and falling in love with the ship at this time of my life was a huge mistake. Because what used to bring me love and comfort and excitement sometimes turns into deep hurt and resentment and bitterness... like now... and the worst thing is... it has the power to upset me to the point of being sick with anxiety and insomnia).
Sorry for the downer post but I think RDA is sincere about liking the slash much more.

[Nerwen]

Wow I didn´t know that even the writers said that there is some gay subtext. (Which writer by the way?)It´s really a downer. But we have to remember that the important people were at our side (delated Trio scene, apparently confirmation in the third movie...) Everything else is just playing.

I really can´t see it with both characters, neither of them ever showed interest in some guy, both had relationships with women, with Daniel I could see it probably, but Jack? No way! IMO

[RadicalDreamer]

Wow I didn´t know that even the writers said that there is some gay subtext. (Which writer by the way?)It´s really a downer. But we have to remember that the important people were at our side (delated Trio scene, apparently confirmation in the third movie...) Everything else is just playing.

I really can´t see it with both characters, neither of them ever showed interest in some guy, both had relationships with women, with Daniel I could see it probably, but Jack? No way! IMO

I think it was Mallozi on his blog (who is a Sam/Jack defender). He said that Jack/Daniel had subtext in a similar way as Sam/Jack had.
Well, personally, I was torn about the slash at some point. Before I tried to understand the appeal, I thought the slash was a joke between fans who liked that kind of thing. But turns out the show and actors gave them something to squee about after all. Then I felt weird about Jack and Daniel.

I used to see them as brothers... and then I suddenly could see the bickering old couple dynamic (and how much more "personal/affectionate" moments they got compared to Sam and Jack). The problem (besides my strong feeling about Sam and Jack that makes it impossible for me to ship anything else seriously... or else I'd feel bad for my depressed 14 years old self who strongly wished to see them get together so she would feel happy *since I wasn't loved back by the people I loved in real life... even today, I have no steady friends and I never had a boyfriend at all... fictional stuff was and still is the way I chose to deal with this loneliness*... just turning my back on this ship would feel like I wasted many years of my life and I don't want this to happen... and also, considering my luck in love, having my favorite ships/stuff hated in favor of something else makes me stupidly believe that I'm cursed in some ways) is that I see something else in their dynamic.

I see myself (Daniel... as much as I hate it, I'm incredibly similar to him in personality... too much... and maybe that's why I never could like him as much as others... can't say I like myself very much) and my own father (Jack). And yeah, we argue often too (from minor to violent fights... as we think very differently about many things, like religion and feminism for example). And it's disturbing to me.

[Akamaimom]

As for actors not buying into the Ship. . .

I really don't pay much attention to anything that RDA says. I think that he's sort of bitter about the whole thing - feeling a little typecast and thrown out. I just get the feeling that he's a little "over" the whole SG-1 thing, although he can't afford to be because it's his bread and butter, and he resents it.

It's clear from cons, though, that he doesn't remember the show. I doubt he even watches it - ever. And where we as Shippers (rabid ones, in my case) watch the show over and over and over and internalize each and every moment, he was gathering up his paychecks and moving on. The other actors had a little more personal stuff invested, and I know that they used to get together and watch the show as friends (I don't have a reference for that - I read it somewhere here on GW once), but again, this was their job. They were probably always looking for things to make the job more exciting and new characters/love interests that weren't allowed by the AF/character arcs would have been mother's milk to them.

My point is this:

The show happened as it happened on screen.

The Powers That Be, whether they supported Jack/Sam shipping personally, ALLOWED EPISODES AND MOMENTS THAT CLEARLY SHOWED OR ALLUDED TO SHIP.

Regardless of how the actors felt about it, what happened on screen is canon.

Now, certainly, the actors have a right to feel how they felt about things, but that's not going to quell how I feel about watching it. The end of "The Other Side" is a classic example. Amanda Tapping has stated that her look was meant to say that she was disappointed in Jack for having judged and sentenced Alar's people. She thought that they didn't have the right to do what they did, and that it was wrong. I've never seen that look in that way. I've always thought that there was communication between Jack and Sam on a different level. (as evidenced in Tilting at Windmills). Sure - Amanda Tapping and Richard Dean Anderson are entitled to their opinions, but that doesn't mean that I have to nullify the way that the show has always come across in my brain because of it.

And no, I've never - not once - been able to see Jack and Daniel as a couple. There's neither the history nor the canon for it. If other people want to see it, or do see it, then bully for them - I just don't see it that way. And that's okay - because everyone gets from a show what they're going to (if that makes any sense). Taking the show solely from what's shown on screen would be a form of Stargate Deconstruction, I guess (for all my literary analysis friends out there. . .), but that's my take on it.

[RadicalDreamer]

Regardless of how the actors felt about it, what happened on screen is canon.

I guess my problem with actors is that I consider them a big factor in how the characters and relationships with other characters are depicted. If an actor has a biais towards another ship, I can see him/her not giving his/her all to the ship he/she is supposed to sell to the audiance but be very generous with the other relationship he/she prefers. And considering RDA doesn't think that Sam and Jack got together, how are we supposed to read his acting past season 8 compared to Amanda's who was ship friendly at this point ? That's my problem. Not to mention that RDA wasn't just an actor. He had power over the show. And I wouldn't consider our ship to have been treated in a fair way for the entire show, by the way. The writing for it was really uneven.

S/J isn't the only ship I support that has their actors supporting other ships instead anyway. Just like I had some of my favorite works of art called "crap" by their authors (vindicating the haters in fandom) while they gushed about their new and much more popular work of fictions. But it always disappointed/depressed me. And S/J is the most important pairing I ever shipped (and no, RDA's opinion will not make me jump ship or whatever... but it hurts and is just... a huge disappointment... besides, he could have said he supported Jack/Daniel without bringing Sam/Jack down... but oh well, he can say whatever he wants).

[Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse]

I don't have a problem as such with Emancipation, I posted the "You look great" gifset on tumblr, and bethanyactually, who is one of the best SG-1 meta writers out there, wrote this:

#this episode IS ridiculous and problematic but one great thing about it is that this is the third ep of the series
#really the first one where they went out as a team and just explored a new world
#and it’s basically ALL ABOUT how sam carter is amazing and fully capable
#yeah in this episode she’s ‘the girl’ and made to wear a fancy dress and kidnapped and threatened with rape
#but then she basically rescues herself and refuses to leave without helping another woman in danger
#this is the THIRD EPISODE I mean these people barely knew each other at this point
#and yet when she tells jack she can handle herself in the fight he immediately trusts her
#a few weeks before he was all ‘you’re sticking me with another scientist UGH PLEASE’
#and now he basically just says ‘okay I’ll hold your flower you go kick his ass’
#and then never again in the entire rest of the series (all 200+ episodes) is sam ever treated merely as ‘the girl’ again
#they put it to rest with this episode and she’s never viewed by anyone who knows her as anything but the badass competent genius that she is
#this episode has its problems but I kind of love it anyway
#loving problematic things

source

I agree with her, it's problematic, especially when it comes to how the aliens are written, but it establishes Sam as the kick butt solder she is and I think it's great that we didn't have to wait forever for that.

Before the "you look great" moment we see this, where Jack is having a bit too much fun for Sam's liking:

[Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse]

The dress comes as a surprise to the guys (and us), but I like this moment between Sam & Jack:

[Akamaimom]

Let's not also forget that there's a mention in the episode of events and missions that we didn't see. Right after they "rescue" Sam, she mentions that she's never been so glad to see them, and Jack says, "Well, sure you have. Remember that time on P3X-595 when you drank that stuff that made you take of your -" They exchange the most ADORABLE expressions. It's one of those easy-to-miss things, but it's super cute.

Also, how hilarious is it that they keep mispronouncing Carter's name? I've always thought that was funny.

Jack's advice to Sam before the fight is also entertaining. ALL cliches, all used wrong. Makes me laugh every time.

Oh and, it inspired this: Things Owed - Emancipation

[SamJackShipper93]

Just some thoughts regarding acting that have been on my mind for a while and especially with Rick’s comments. It’s generally off-topic – feel free to skip the whole post – but I do think it’s an interesting discussion to have. I don’t mean any of this as a slight to fans at all, but we need to remember that there are real people on the other side of the characters that we love so much.

As a (sometimes) actress myself, I’d like to say that it’s important to remember that acting is just a job. Being an actor is a career just like being an accountant or a plumber or a teacher. In whatever job you have, any talented, ambitious person has a desire to continue to grow and get newer, better opportunities.

Actors certainly enjoy their work and their characters, but it can be very tiresome when you’re only remembered for a character you played ten, twenty, or thirty years ago (and in Rick’s case, he’s got both Jack and MacGyver that define him). This isn’t as big of a problem for actors in theater, since most of the time, nobody can rewatch a production after the show’s closed, but television is strange because twenty, thirty, forty years, people can still watch the same TV show. Fans fall in love with the show, the characters, and the actors that are playing those characters, but in the meantime, the actors have already moved on to other projects. Take Star Trek, for example, most of the actors on the original series and TNG will forever be immortalized as those characters, even though they did many other things later.

Moving on isn’t a betrayal of a show or the character or the fans, and it isn’t an indication that they didn’t enjoy being on the show. Many actors do a lot of grieving when they’re done playing characters, but if you didn’t grieve and move on, there won’t be any other opportunities. Amanda has said that at first it was very difficult to throw off Sam’s mannerisms when she started playing Helen Magnus because she was so entrenched in Sam’s character, but Sanctuary gave her incredible opportunities as an actress, a director, a producer, and as a founder of SanctuaryForKids, and I love that she’s become known for that role as well.

Die-hard fans of TV shows love it when their favorite actors cater to what the fandom wants. But ultimately, actors aren’t required to be die-hard fans of the shows that they’re on, especially after they’ve been off the air for a long time. I doubt that Rick ever watched Seasons 9/10, and he’s not nearly as in tune with the fans as Amanda is. I think she’s truly very supportive and appreciative of sci-fi fans and is usually very gracious to all of them, and she also knows that post Stargate, Jack and Sam’s relationship is still exceptionally important to a great number of fans, and she’s been more supportive of the Ship because of that.

All that's to hopefully say, actors have a unique and intimate perspective on their characters, but what they say is not necessarily gospel. Jack and Sam's relationship was present throughout SG-1, but it never was the main goal of the series, so people had/have different opinions of exactly how much they mean to each other. Rick and Amanda may not agree on what happened to Jack and Sam, but they still play to the fans sometimes because they know what we like to see.

When Rick and Amanda are together on stage, they often give us moments like this that send the crowd into hysteric whoops and hollers, and it’s not because the crowd thinks that Jack and Sam are mutual friends…


And this one’s from a con as well…


To anyone who gets uncomfortable when actors say things that don’t match your interpretation (let’s be real, Rick’s comments certainly don’t match canon either!): Don’t let whatever an actor says diminish your love for a show. Odds are, you’ve analyzed more than they ever did or have. Love the actors and their work, but also appreciate the people in the fandom, who are still here loving and discussing the show a decade later. Enjoy the story and show your love for it in your own way.

You are loved and welcomed here.

*huggles*