Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[mad_gater]

What??
What kind of world are we living in when people don't recognize the classics

Speaking of watching classics I'm watching Night of the Living Dead tonight instead of Stargate (it's for a grade and it's due tomorrow so I have to), I shall resume my trek down season 9 tomorrow night

[starlover]

My pleasure!! I'm sure starlover will concur

I do!

*wants to watch S/J wedding scene now*

[starlover]

Did I kill the thread? Whoops

Eerrrrr...someone wanna do a RL viewing of an episode?

[Akamaimom]

Did I kill the thread? Whoops

I frequently feel that way. I hate it when my post is the last one up forEVER. Then I feel like I just killed the entire conversation and think--EPIC FAIL!

[starlover]

I frequently feel that way. I hate it when my post is the last one up forEVER. Then I feel like I just killed the entire conversation and think--EPIC FAIL!

I get that every once in a while...but sometimes there is just nothing to say...plus it could be partly me and not having any good...deep...thoughts about the discussion earlier!
School killed my one brain cell

[Akamaimom]

School killed my one brain cell

kids killed mine. I always tell them that if I had another brain cell, it would die of loneliness.

[Amalthea]

Hehehe... somewhat OT, but I have my brother and sister saying "snurched" now, a word I learned in this thread. It's like shipper mind control.

[UhSir]

My point was just that I don't care what the real behind the scenes reason was for something to happen or not. For me - personally - in order to really like a show, there has to be a good in-story reason as well or I will stop really caring about what happens on the show. This is why I watch very little TV.

It's partly, I'll admit, that I'm one of those who was a Stargate fan (and.. you know.. non-shipper ...) for years before 'becoming a shipper' and it was only after I knew TPTB weren't, in fact, going to totally screw up who Sam and Jack were as individuals or the show itself by 'shipping' them that I started really paying attention to the relationship. And when I did, I was amazed at what consistent sense it made and by the fact they never did twist who the characters were to 'make the ship work', which is what most TV shows do. A friend and I were just discussing a show last night that did do this, and while it's now wildly popular, I'm finding myself liking it less and less. In other words, there's nothing wrong with either view, I just tend to be the type who enjoys a show first and the ship second, and so I'm perfectly happy with what we got on Stargate because they continued to do just this consistently. They threw out the shippy bits to let those who were interested worry about interpreting them but left them subtle enough that, if you didn't care, you didn't have to follow that storyline. And in so doing, they also kept (IMHO) the interactions far more real feeling than most TV shows do.

And again, I think this is because I was just watching the show for years instead of being a shipper or even involved in fandom, but I never saw any of this just from watching the show. What I saw on screen always seemed to make sense, and be in character, without ever detracting from the overall quality of the show.

So, obviously, from our very different expectations of what we wanted to see, we're going to have completely different opinions about what we did see. I saw a relationship and it's resolution far more real than anything I expected on a TV show without taking anything away from the show itself, and you saw a relationship without the overt moments and resolution you'd been hoping for for years.

And, because I was never looking for 'resolution' or, in fact, doing more than following the story until after S8, the lack of unambiguous resolution doesn't bother me as much as it does others. While I'd like to see it, I don't feel I'll be cheated if I don't get it because I never really felt like the ship was ever more than a take-it-or-leave it extra layer to the characters and the resolution we did get seemed right in line with this. Which doesn't mean (to clarifly) that I think the fact Sam and Jack love each other is debatable, but that it was never something viewers were ever really forced to pay attention to to understand the show itself (though I do think in order to really understand Sam and Jack you have to understand their relationship).

Oh, I agree Jack couldn't have known exactly what she was saying. I still think he got the general gist of what she was doing... testing the waters... and if he'd *really* wanted her to know how he still felt he'd have been more clear. I don't think Jack really knew Sam still loved him the same way she did back in S4, either (heck, she was marrying someone else), even though I think he realized she still had lingering feelings (as we see in Lost City, and I think 'lingering' is sort of how he probably thought of them - that they'd go away eventually outside the drama of the moment) Cause I don't think it was until she was standing on his deck in Threads that Jack really understood Sam loved and needed him as much as he did her. If he'd have *really* known that earlier, I think he'd have done anything to have been there for her then.

Changing the subject slightly, and this is beyond the scope of this discussion, but one thing my friend and I did discuss last night was that Science Fiction television may have an advantage over more traditional dramas in drawing realistic relationships and characters not simply because in scifi you can build situations to explore characters and their relationships but - ironically - because Science Fiction shows are rarely *about* the relationship, and thus I don't think there's as much pressure on the show to perform in that area. They can take it slowly and more naturally and, really, if they want two characters to get together, they can without ruining the show because, as the show's never about the ship, resolving it won't ruin the shows basic premise because, even without the tension of that relationship, there are always a ton of other things to be tense about. You see this on Star Treks and Babylon 5 and Farscape and, even I think, Stargate itself with Sam/Jack and later (though some will groan) McKay Keller. What I think often happens on more traditional shows is that, a ship 'develops', it becomes popular, and then the show sort of morphs into the ship show (if it wasn't already, cause sometimes they're designed to be about it) and, IMHO, that's when the craziness occurs. This seems to happen a lot less on Science Fiction than it does on other shows.

I've gone over the following several times and I think it doesn't make much sense and I suspect I may just be repeating myself but I'll post it anyway. Stick a fork in me, I'm done. I'm afraid I've exhausted every thinking cell in my brain.

Yes there is a lot of ambiguity but it was crafted in a way so shippers and non-shippers can interpret the scene to their liking. Unfortunately for the PTB a whole spainking lot of both sides were too overwhelmed by the ambiguity and couldn't see what the PTB had intended. All of the reasons I've been mentioning are factors that explain why so many shippers are extremely upset that there's never been an unambiguous resolution. One year wasn't too bad but four years on that rollercoaster was too much for many shippers and non-shippers. It actually reached a point where both sides were begging for an end. “Put them together or break them up, please, just make it stop.” The desire for a Big Honkin' Kiss kind of resolution is not because we don't believe Sam and Jack are together. It's because promises had been made that we would get it. “It” not being specifically a BHK but being clear cut, our Sam and Jack, completely in control of what they are doing. The ambiguity upsets me because it's supposed to be confirmation. If I hadn't experienced the behind the scenes turmoil I still would not be seeing the ambiguity as Sam and Jack avoiding or rejecting each other. That's because I'm more left-brained than not and insist on figuring out what everything means plus a hopeless romantic which ensures said figuring to head in a shippy direction.

I don't let the behind the scene reasons dictate how I interpret this relationship and I really hoped that I'd explained that over these last few days with how I felt about things between Grace and Threads. I don't need to see a BHK. I can believe the long, drawn-out, angst of the relationship. The angst is what got me hooked to begin with. The length of time does bug me but I get past that by saying it's because saving the earth kept getting in their way.

I don't need the resolution. I want it. If it doesn't happen I'll still love Sam and Jack, but I will be extremely disappointed. I'm convinced that my experience here keeps me from getting emotionally involved in any show now, but that's my problem and nobody is to blame but me and maybe some day I'll find another show as captivating as this one.

None of this has stopped me from loving this ship (Duh!) and I'm confident that it will always be special to me.

[Akamaimom]

I can believe the long, drawn-out, angst of the relationship. The angst is what got me hooked to begin with. The length of time does bug me but I get past that by saying it's because saving the earth kept getting in their way.

I totally see your point here. And the angst is what sucked me in, too. And kept me going.

[majorsal]

[...] And when I did, I was amazed at what consistent sense it made and by the fact they never did twist who the characters were to 'make the ship work', which is what most TV shows do.

i'm afraid i've found a few...

1- sam letting pete off the hook for his background check/following her around in 'chimera'. the sam i knew up to that date would *never* let a person get away with that, especially someone she was in a relationship with.

2- having sam/martouf in 'ripple effect', in such an unambiguous way. it hurt s/j *because* she was supposedly with jack at the time.

3- sam and orlin had sex? so they're supposed to be a real 'ship'; is that what 'the fourth horseman' was saying? i'm supposed to believe that sam had sex with an alien hanging out at her house for a few days?


but i get what you're saying about ships in other shows, b/c i find i almost enjoy the less-involved-for-me ships b/c i'm not suffering and pulling my hair out with their shippy merry-go-rounds. i love house/cuddy on 'house', but i'm not *involved* in it even close to s/j, so i'm not wanting to hurl at what's going on with that ship in it's current season. and it's not good. what's happening makes sense, it's understandable, but i'm not enjoying the ride. but i'm also not wanting to hurt small furry animals because of it! (((small furry animals)))

[majorsal]

or this?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1.../gifs/PoV2.gif

i love this kiss.

it might not be our sam and jack, but i like watching the actors working hard... yes, they're working hard to make this 'almost, but not quite' ship work. they're so dedicated...

[majorsal]

Yes there is a lot of ambiguity but it was crafted in a way so shippers and non-shippers can interpret the scene to their liking.

and what's the deal with that? why? no other storylines on the show were done so ambiguous, so why a ship storyline?

I don't need to see a BHK

i do. or at least a bona fied and real statement that they're IN a relationship. a kiss would be the icing on the cake... and icing is my fave part of a cake.

I don't need the resolution. I want it. If it doesn't happen I'll still love Sam and Jack, but I will be extremely disappointed. I'm convinced that my experience here keeps me from getting emotionally involved in any show now, but that's my problem and nobody is to blame but me and maybe some day I'll find another show as captivating as this one.

None of this has stopped me from loving this ship (Duh!) and I'm confident that it will always be special to me.

i want it and need it. though i feel the 'resolution' happened with 'threads' (b/c they finally decided to forgo the pretence that they didn't care, and that they loved one another), but the *confirmation* is something i definitely need. not like food and water , but... like you said, i'll be extremely disappointed if it doesn't happen. extremely.

btw, i'm reluctant to be a part of another show to this extreme for the same reasons. i've been burnt too many times, and i'm tired of charred limbs falling off. <-- at imagery

[Akamaimom]

3- sam and orlin had sex? so they're supposed to be a real 'ship'; is that what 'the fourth horseman' was saying? i'm supposed to believe that sam had sex with an alien hanging out at her house for a few days?

I don't think that they did. He did the glowy thing on her, which I suppose would be the Ascended Being approximation, but I don't think they did the actual human act.

[majorsal]

I don't think that they did. He did the glowy thing on her, which I suppose would be the Ascended Being approximation, but I don't think they did the actual human act.

i don't think they did either. in fact, i know they didn't, and even amanda tapping said so in an interview at the time (the original ep, 'ascension' was aired). it's the s9 ep that made it seem like sam and orlin *had*, in 'ascension'.

[Akamaimom]

i don't think they did either. in fact, i know they didn't, and even amanda tapping said so in an interview at the time (the original ep, 'ascension' was aired). it's the s9 ep that made it seem like sam and orlin *had*, in 'ascension'.

Since the "glowy thing" is an intimate understanding of each other, I guess it could approximate the intimacy that humans gain from the interaction (when it's done right. . . ).

But one word about suddenly shacking up with Orlin. . .Eeew. He's cute and all, but kind of wishy washy as a character, and I can't see Sam going for that.