Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[JenniferJF]

Ah Threads. I watched that today too on SyFy. Though I would have liked it better if I had seen the extended version.

The part where Jacob is dying is so emotional. He says his last words "I love you" and Sam kisses him goodbye, Jack closes his eyes and those feelings he has held inside for so long are coming out and that yes, he loves her too.

Aw man, now I need a tissue.

I wonder if I should admit I have an edited version, too. Though I'll admit mine has some of the Daniel and Jaffa bits in it, because I quite like some of the Teal'c/Bra'tac and Daniel/Oma stuff. OTOH, I do think in the extended version some of those scenes, especially the Daniel/Anubis dialog at the diner, does become unnecessarily expositional to fill in the necessary time. I've edited out some of those. And replaced the first Ba'al/Anubis scene with the final Jack/Sam scene from Reckoning. And replaced the final fishing scene with the final two scenes (Daniel's lab and the fishing scene) from Moebius.

But other than that, it's *exactly* like the original

EDIT: It's no where near as edited as, for example, my copy of Divide and Conquer is in which I've taken out all the boring politics and nearly every talkie around the conference table scene (*yawn*)

EDIT 2: Cause I managed to miss my original point which was that I think Jack's final sigh and lowered head in the 'Always' scene in Threads is more because, in seeing (feeling) Sam's grief and Jacob's passing, Jack feels the full weight and responsibility of the decision he has made and put into action by going to Sam descend upon him. He has, through 'Always' IMHO, effectively made a promise to Sam and he's old enough and wise enough to know that it's not all going to be flowers and sunshine but involve some very real sacrifices and hard decisions. I think in that moment when he's watching Sam say goodbye to Jacob it's the weight of that which he is feeling more than the love.

Well.

I should say, the 'joy' of love, cause I'm a firm believer in the idea love in it's truest form isn't really a fluffy feel-good emotion and, by that definition, in that moment, what he's feeling is most definitely love. So, I guess in *that* way... I'm agreeing with you.

lol (wow. I just argued my way to your point of view. )

[Nynaeve506]

This is probably one of the few episodes where I enjoy the Daniel stuff. I rarely enjoy Teal'c (although I like him more than I like Daniel). I think it's because I like Anubis. The actor they chose is just so very cool - unlike most Goa'uld he's more brains than brawn.

As for the Threads scene - while I haven't been in uniform, my father is retired AF (and when I first started watching SG-1 I quizzed him about the regs) - I got that it was huge LOL.

I thought about her caressing his hand against her cheek unconsciously and it made me think about how comforted we are with someone we love. I don't think she would have done that with Daniel. It's about needing to have the person you love deeply touch you. She needs him.

The intensity that he looks at her... I always get a shiver and so much is wrapped up in that one word "Always." If you remember, after season 4, we only catch that intensity when she's not looking, she has no idea how he feels, he buries it, but that he *speaks*... that too is huge.

[Akamaimom]

Ah. See. I adore the gesture she does make. It's so incredibly intimate the way she caresses it to her cheek, almost unconsciously. A kiss, IMHO, would be a bit OOC and indicate more conscious awareness. The fact it seems so natural and instinctive - imho of course - makes it that much more perfect and intimate.

EDIT: I also find it impossible to believe that for Sam (or Jack) Jacob could possibly have ceased to be an issue. Her father was dying in front of her and, as much as I think she loves Jack and he loves her, I can't believe at that moment Jacob wasn't the most important thing on both their minds. It was why she was so unconscious in her caress of Jack's hand - she wasn't consciously really thinking about Jack or her relationship with him at that moment I don't think, but taking what he was offering simply because she needed it. I do think very shortly afterwards she would have replayed it in her mind and realized what it all meant, and I think the way she responds to Jack unconsciously shows more than anything conscious ever could that they really are, at that point, a *couple*. The moment which, for me, nails the new relationship between them is when she is called to Jacob's bedside and, separating from Jack a bit, looks to him and it's only after his slight nod she leaves him for Jacob. That moment speaks volumes to me... and I don't think either of them is aware of the significance. It's just what seems right and natural at that moment.

Don't get me wrong--I love it, too. It's just --that-- close to an absolute. If she'd kissed his hand, it would have yes, been OOC (dangnabbit!), but it also would have been an actual kiss. Sure, not a lip locking lengual hockey deep throbbing kiss, but a kiss. And sweeter to me than the tonsil-mining kisses that we normally see on TV.

And I can't get over the feeling that it seems okay to them to do it because it was so obviously the desire of the man in the bed. Jacob wanted them together, so they felt more comfortable, even being on the base, because he was there. And Jack offered--but it was a huge deal for Sam that she accepted 1) so readily, and 2) so completely. There was no awkwardness at all, which means to me that there may have been some understanding between them even before the scene up in the observation room. But I don't think so--I think that this overture is the one that begins it--and from there, once they realize which walls have been torn down by a simple "C'mere", there is absolutely no going back.

[Treknik]

I wonder if I should admit I have an edited version, too. Though I'll admit mine has some of the Daniel and Jaffa bits in it, because I quite like some of the Teal'c/Bra'tac and Daniel/Oma stuff. OTOH, I do think in the extended version some of those scenes, especially the Daniel/Anubis dialog at the diner, does become unnecessarily expositional to fill in the necessary time. I've edited out some of those. And replaced the first Ba'al/Anubis scene with the final Jack/Sam scene from Reckoning. And replaced the final fishing scene with the final two scenes (Daniel's lab and the fishing scene) from Moebius.

But other than that, it's *exactly* like the original

EDIT: It's no where near as edited as, for example, my copy of Divide and Conquer is in which I've taken out all the boring politics and nearly every talkie around the conference table scene (*yawn*)

EDIT 2: Cause I managed to miss my original point which was that I think Jack's final sigh and lowered head in the 'Always' scene in Threads is more because, in seeing (feeling) Sam's grief and Jacob's passing, Jack feels the full weight and responsibility of the decision he has made and put into action by going to Sam descend upon him. He has, through 'Always' IMHO, effectively made a promise to Sam and he's old enough and wise enough to know that it's not all going to be flowers and sunshine but involve some very real sacrifices and hard decisions. I think in that moment when he's watching Sam say goodbye to Jacob it's the weight of that which he is feeling more than the love.

Well.

I should say, the 'joy' of love, cause I'm a firm believer in the idea love in it's truest form isn't really a fluffy feel-good emotion and, by that definition, in that moment, what he's feeling is most definitely love. So, I guess in *that* way... I'm agreeing with you.

lol (wow. I just argued my way to your point of view. )

I was reading it going: but, but, but and then I came to the end and said yes, there you have it. *starts singing 'Can you feel the love tonight'*

I also enjoyed reading yours and Sharon's views on Threads and Kerry's role. It was getting pretty deep in here. I never used to watch these shows with so much depth, just for the entertainment and enjoyment. After reading some of the comments in here over the year, you definitely get a better grasp of the feelings and hidden meanings that are happening beyond the actual story itself.

[JenniferJF]

Don't get me wrong--I love it, too. It's just --that-- close to an absolute. If she'd kissed his hand, it would have yes, been OOC (dangnabbit!), but it also would have been an actual kiss. Sure, not a lip locking lengual hockey deep throbbing kiss, but a kiss. And sweeter to me than the tonsil-mining kisses that we normally see on TV.

I think we're both getting to the same thing, only I think given their characters and the situation they're in, that caress of hers to his hand is *just* as meaningful - and in fact convey the same meaning - as a kiss would be for other people under other circumstances.

But I don't think so--I think that this overture is the one that begins it--and from there, once they realize which walls have been torn down by a simple "C'mere", there is absolutely no going back.

Yes.

By the end of the scene, the proverbially door is open, the walls are down, the Rubicon has been crossed...

So, iow.

Yes.

[hedwig]

I think that caress of hers to his hand is *just* as meaningful - and in fact convey the same meaning - as a kiss would be for other people under other circumstances.

I'm wondering if this is another one of those moments where a kiss was scripted (though maybe unlikely in this episode?), but AT and RDA decided to go with what we saw on the screen, simply because it had more meaning than an actual kiss would have been.

[Akamaimom]

I'm wondering if this is another one of those moments where a kiss was scripted (though maybe unlikely in this episode?), but AT and RDA decided to go with what we saw on the screen, simply because it had more meaning than an actual kiss would have been.

A lip-lock kiss? I don't think so--but there could have been more dialogue originally written that they eschewed in favor of the simplicity of the other gestures.

[hedwig]

A lip-lock kiss? I don't think so--but there could have been more dialogue originally written that they eschewed in favor of the simplicity of the other gestures.

No. I didn't mean a "lip lock" kiss. I meant the notion of her kissing his hand absent mindedly (since her thoughts were obviously on Jacob at that moment and not so much on Jack) or something like you suggested. In some of those previous episodes, when a kiss was scripted, RDA and AT opted not to do that, but to go for an intense look or her head resting on his shoulder instead. And was wondering if maybe something similar happened here.

[Akamaimom]

No. I didn't mean a "lip lock" kiss. I meant the notion of her kissing his hand absent mindedly (since her thoughts were obviously on Jacob at that moment and not so much on Jack) or something like you suggested. In some of those previous episodes, when a kiss was scripted, RDA and AT opted not to do that, but to go for an intense look or her head resting on his shoulder instead. And was wondering if maybe something similar happened here.

Dunno. I wonder how much of that was scripted, anyway. The actors know what the characters need so well--I can't help but think that it just happened--like that sweet little push-in in "Beneath the Surface" that was supposed to be a kiss but just ended up with her head on his shoulder. . .

[hedwig]

Dunno. I wonder how much of that was scripted, anyway. The actors know what the characters need so well--I can't help but think that it just happened--like that sweet little push-in in "Beneath the Surface" that was supposed to be a kiss but just ended up with her head on his shoulder. . .

Yep. That's what I meant.

[Akamaimom]

Yep. That's what I meant.

You know what they say about great minds. . .

[hedwig]

You know what they say about great minds. . .

(*am signing off for now to go watch "Dancing With the Stars" to see who does great and who gets kicked off this week.*)

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

I think RDA AT MS and CJ shouldve done a commentary for this episode cause there is not a commentary for this episode.

[Akamaimom]

I think RDA AT MS and CJ shouldve done a commentary for this episode cause there is not a commentary for this episode.

I've thought that same thing over and over and over. . .

Of course, the implications are pretty clear, so perhaps they thought that a commentary would be redundant. But I still want one.

[JenniferJF]

Of course, the implications are pretty clear, so perhaps they thought that a commentary would be redundant. But I still want one.

I may be alone in this, but I'm glad there is no commentary. A commentary could have gone three ways IMHO:

1) an emphasis on the technical aspect of making the episode which would have - IMHO - hindered the overall impact and beauty of it.

2) *telling* what was *shown* in the episode which would have been sort of like the cliff note version of the thing and, again, decreased the artistic impact of it as a whole.

or - more likely based on my experience of commentaries ...

3) the PdL phenomena (which is that the seriousness of the commentary is inversely proportional to the depth and beauty of what is actually happening on screen) would have taken over and the commentary would have been so completely over-the-top as to have virtually nothing to do with what was actually happening on screen at any given moment and have, again, decreased the artistic impact of the finished product.

So. Like I said, I may be alone, but I'm glad there is no commentary and, in fact, can understand why there's not.