Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[Akamaimom]

Oh. Yeah. Jenn's 'Sam's hair theory'.

You see, waaaay back in S9 I postulated this very thing - that the length of Sam's hair was directly proportional to how close she was to Jack O'Neill personally. If you recall, she started letting it grow a bit longer and less controlled starting in S9. Of course, I had several very rational (in Jenn!world) reasons why this was, mostly stemming from the fact that I think Sam - left to herself - likes having long hair and that her wearing it short 'for the Air Force' (even though the regs are only she had to keep it up) was symptomatic of her trying to conform herself into the perfect Air Force officer instead of being true to herself and who she is. So, it's not obviously that 'being with Jack' means Sam had her hair long (or vice versa) but rather than both having longer hair *and* being with Jack are a result of Sam's coming to accept and appreciate herself for the woman and person she is rather than trying to fit into anyone else's mold.

(that was short. Many of you are very happy it was, aren't you? )

I agree with this--and even going back to season 4, when shippy angst and flirtiness was at its peak, her hair was at its longest. And at the end of Beneath the Surface, the unbelievably sad "Sir"--"Sir" exchange, the haircut kind of seemed to formalize their going back to her genderless and sexless and angstless existence.

And incidentally, that's what my paper's thesis was--

Spoiler:

that hair on a woman symbolized her womanhood/virtue (think Bernice Bobs Her Hair, Les Miserables, and Rapunzel) and losing that hair somehow symbolizes her fall from grace. So, the converse must be true--that growing back the hair would then return some of the femininity to the woman.

[majorsal]

I understand the change in the episode, but for me it would have to change what Sam heard in Jack's voice. I am probably the only one that doesn't hear a reprimand in his tone.

Jenn, I agree with your comments, but I believe they stemmed from Sam's misinterpretation of his "Excuse Me?" not from the way he said it. Does that make sense?

(snip)

I don't find his "Excuse Me?" angsty because he does raise an eyebrow, both of them in fact. So to me it is her saying Jack that surprises him, not a reprimand towards her, because then his eyebrows would have been down and together.

i didn't hear it as a reprimand either.

[Akamaimom]

i didn't hear it as a reprimand either.

Nope--no reprimand. I just hear surprise, and maybe a little hope, perhaps, that her experience has made her ready to embrace something more.

You know--like HIM.

[hedwig]

I understand the change in the episode, but for me it would have to change what Sam heard in Jack's voice. I am probably the only one that doesn't hear a reprimand in his tone.

Jenn, I agree with your comments, but I believe they stemmed from Sam's misinterpretation of his "Excuse Me?" not from the way he said it. Does that make sense?



I don't find his "Excuse Me?" angsty because he does raise an eyebrow, both of them in fact. So to me it is her saying Jack that surprises him, not a reprimand towards her, because then his eyebrows would have been down and together.

No, you're definitely not the only one that did not hear a reprimand in Jack's voice when he said "excuse me". I've always felt he was just surprised to hear her say his name; there was no reprimand in his comment. He'd been waiting by her bedside for so long for her to wake up, she could have called him Homer Simpson or Marge Simpson or Santa Claus and he would have been overjoyed just to hear her voice. Plus, I could never see him being so cruel as to reprimand her the minute she came out of a concussion-based coma just for calling him by his name instead of his rank or "sir".

i didn't hear it as a reprimand either.
Nope--no reprimand. I just hear surprise, and maybe a little hope, perhaps, that her experience has made her ready to embrace something more.

You know--like HIM.

It's just too bad he didn't go with the flow at that point (as was discussed earlier today or yesterday) and make an encouraging comment and maybe suggest a little chat later when she was feeling better.

[Tachyon]

I agree basically with everything hedwig just said right there. ^

[UhSir]

I understand the change in the episode, but for me it would have to change what Sam heard in Jack's voice. I am probably the only one that doesn't hear a reprimand in his tone.

Jenn, I agree with your comments, but I believe they stemmed from Sam's misinterpretation of his "Excuse Me?" not from the way he said it. Does that make sense?

I don't find his "Excuse Me?" angsty because he does raise an eyebrow, both of them in fact. So to me it is her saying Jack that surprises him, not a reprimand towards her, because then his eyebrows would have been down and together.

No you're not the only one. I have never considered Jack's reaction to be anything other than surprise at hearing her say his name, and liking it! Nor do I consider her reaction to be withdrawal or feeling rejected. For me, that whole infirmary scene is mildly concussed fluff.

[starlover]

I don't find his "Excuse Me?" angsty because he does raise an eyebrow, both of them in fact. So to me it is her saying Jack that surprises him, not a reprimand towards her, because then his eyebrows would have been down and together.

That's true, but I'm not saying it is a real reprimand, perhaps in the way I argued it it seemed like that, but still even with it being a surprise I don't think the wording is correct IMHO.

On the other hand when you see this as a surprise it is nice to hear Jack being surprised at what he heard(because of all the barriers they have set up to make a distance between themselves).

Still with Sam's reaction on that "excuse me" it is IMHO angsty because it almost seems like she sees it as a reprimand because she corrects herself thus I think from Sam's point of view it is angsty while Jack perhaps meant his "excuse me" in a different way.



Sort of OT...we had the (S/J) artwork thread awards yesterday...I won a few awards and since I originally started from this thread I wanted to share...I'll do it in spoilers...

Spoiler:

Best Fluff

Best Gutter

Best Crop

2nd place best Icon

Best Wallpaper

(click on thumbnail to see it full size)

Best Signature

[XFchemist]

Sort of OT...we had the (S/J) artwork thread awards yesterday...I won a few awards and since I originally started from this thread I wanted to share...I'll do it in spoilers...

Jumped here just to show my new signature made by Jann

[starlover]

Jumped here just to show my new signature made by Jann

Rawrrrrrrrr

*cough*

blame the text she has on the sig for the song she had with a gutter vid......even though I requested that one

[nell]

Good Morning!

*Thunks Mala*

[JenniferJF]

Jenn, I agree with your comments, but I believe they stemmed from Sam's misinterpretation of his "Excuse Me?" not from the way he said it. Does that make sense?

I actually don't think he was overly curt in how he said, "Excuse Me?" and do think a large part of Sam's reaction comes from her interpretation of what he said more than the actual way he said it. However, I still maintain given what Jack had been through during that episode that I actually see him in that scene at the end of Grace as being almost giddy happy to see her awake and okay but trying desperately to reign that emotion in to display only the professional colonel to her. And I think he does a Very Good job of it. *We* see his underlying relief and joy but I don't think Sam does, which leads her to believe he really does want to maintain the status quo and so she gets scared and backs off of her 'thank you' and turns instead to Pete rather than risk losing what she does have with Jack by pushing for more.

I adore this catch of his expression while he's looking at her in bed because I think it shows some of the underlying almost sadness beneath the surface which I think is caused by his knowing *he* can't express to her what he's really feeling. It's just... *That's* what I find angsty:

[JenniferJF]

No you're not the only one. I have never considered Jack's reaction to be anything other than surprise at hearing her say his name, and liking it! Nor do I consider her reaction to be withdrawal or feeling rejected. For me, that whole infirmary scene is mildly concussed fluff.

And yet, she starts to tell him what she's thankful for and then backs off, and two episodes later starts dating Pete even after that imagined kiss. If that's not withdrawal and backing off, I don't know what is. If that scene were fluffy and sweet between her and Jack than why does she do that?

EDIT: As in, I'm really asking, why do you think she starts dating Pete?

[Nynaeve506]

:: Headdesk ::

Woke up this morning to find out my french sucks (oh wait, I was a Spanish major, of course my french sucks) - but for those reading my little fic - I fixed it! It's La Petite Mort. :: headdesk ::

I'm not an idiot I promise. I just speak English and Spanish not French.

[Akamaimom]

:: Headdesk ::

Woke up this morning to find out my french sucks (oh wait, I was a Spanish major, of course my french sucks) - but for those reading my little fic - I fixed it! It's La Petite Mort. :: headdesk ::

I'm not an idiot I promise. I just speak English and Spanish not French.

Spoiler:

Esta bien! Yo no puedo hablar Frances tam poco. Es solamente porque yo vivia por un tiempo en Suramerica que puedo hablar Espanol! No te sientas mal! Y no importan las palabras--es la muerte pequena que significa, no? Y ESA esta bien! (and I apologize for my sad lack of accent marks and tildes--I'm too lazy to figure out how to do them on my keyboard.)

[yessika]

Aka, I have all the accent maks and tildes memorized