Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[hlndncr]

Have some candy hearts!

[Nynaeve506]

See? No lying. No implications, and everything is true. Janet is not compromised, all is right with the world.

And best of all, we know Jack would rather die than lose Carter. And we know that Carter (per my own fic) said that she hated herself for wanting him there, that if those were to be her last seconds alive, she wanted to spend them looking at him...and that made her selfish.

I still say that, in my head, it reflects poorly on Janet if she didn't bring up the possible issue with the regs with Hammond. I get it, it happens all the time in the USAF (people covering for each other, and I might be sensitive because my dad got a retaliatory reprimand in his file for getting an investigation opened on his commanding officer who was sexually harassing a woman in the squadron). In this case, we know our characters, they're all great, honorable people, but if I step inside Janet's shoes...I'm just saying - she's making a potentially dangerous assumption that there aren't other issues stemming from his confession (sexual harassment, favoritism, etc).

I get it, I get it, it's a *show* and we can't break up our team, but I just can't bring myself to excuse everyone's actions with regards to Sam/Jack. In my head I write it off as a character flaw, and I'm not sure whether it's Janet's or Hammond's, but I tend to run with Hammond because he's the highest ranking officer embroiled in the entire situation.

[Wild Flower]

wooHOO!!!

*runs nekkid thru thread*

I'm baaaaaaaaack!!!

::happy dance::

PC crapped out, then the internet. Rough week. And now I'm trying to recover all the pics and such that I've gotten off this site. It's gonna take a while. First things first... some S/J love!

Glad to see you're back and the computer is better

[Pol]

I still say that, in my head, it reflects poorly on Janet if she didn't bring up the possible issue with the regs with Hammond. I get it, it happens all the time in the USAF (people covering for each other, and I might be sensitive because my dad got a retaliatory reprimand in his file for getting an investigation opened on his commanding officer who was sexually harassing a woman in the squadron). In this case, we know our characters, they're all great, honorable people, but if I step inside Janet's shoes...I'm just saying - she's making a potentially dangerous assumption that there aren't other issues stemming from his confession (sexual harassment, favoritism, etc).

I get it, I get it, it's a *show* and we can't break up our team, but I just can't bring myself to excuse everyone's actions with regards to Sam/Jack. In my head I write it off as a character flaw, and I'm not sure whether it's Janet's or Hammond's, but I tend to run with Hammond because he's the highest ranking officer embroiled in the entire situation.

See, here's the thing. Janet (in my letter) notes that "both officers were aware of implications of identified danger to the SGC or nation" (or whatever I wrote).

She, in her professional judgment didn't identify anything that would be a problem. Remember when she asks Sam in 100 Days "Is this a problem?"

She's asking Sam if Sam's dedicated (driving, aching NEED) devotion to bringing him back was going to interfere with Sam's duty performance. Sam says "No."

Same thing goes for the Tok'ra Xanax (yes, I know). (Also probably out of order timeline-wise, but the same thought applies). Janet's first duty is to THE MISSION. To the SGC. If she sees nothing to compromise either, it doesn't go in the report.

I'll bet during the report handoff there was something like this:

Doctor? Anything else to report?
No General, I think the report is pretty clear.
Anything I might need to be aware of?
No, sir. Nothing I don't believe you're not aware of already.
And if anything changes?
I'd let you know.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

For some reason I can't get the idea out of my head that he's got her a rather romantic weekend spa break. Both of them would go of course. I think he thinks he's the only one who can get her to relax

Bit cliched I know, but this idea just won't go away.

well we all know how jack feels about cliches and i agree that only jack could get her to relax.

[iiradned]

Have some candy hearts!

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af243/hlndncr/Photoshop%20Art/Valenship/NeccoSJSweetheartscopy.jpg

Nice!!

[iiradned]

A Valentine's fic
A Valentines Wish by Rachel500
Five Valentines Sam received from Jack.

[Nynaeve506]

[COLOR="#000000"]

See, here's the thing. Janet (in my letter) notes that "both officers were aware of implications of identified danger to the SGC or nation" (or whatever I wrote).

She, in her professional judgment didn't identify anything that would be a problem. Remember when she asks Sam in 100 Days "Is this a problem?"

She's asking Sam if Sam's dedicated (driving, aching NEED) devotion to bringing him back was going to interfere with Sam's duty performance. Sam says "No."

Same thing goes for the Tok'ra Xanax (yes, I know). (Also probably out of order timeline-wise, but the same thought applies). Janet's first duty is to THE MISSION. To the SGC. If she sees nothing to compromise either, it doesn't go in the report

That's actually my point. The fact of the matter is that Janet doesn't know what will or what won't compromise the SGC (thus the existence of regs). The very fact that Jack wouldn't leave Sam is a huge warning sign. At the point that she asked Sam in 100 Days, there wasn't anything other than Sam's dedication to go on (and let's face it, Sam was a bit of a workaholic *anyway*, so it's easily written off). The point at which the armband incident happened...c'mon. Janet can't pretend that it's anything but a problem. Jack is clearly compromised as a commanding officer (they left Daniel at the end of S.1 and he was willing to blow Daniel up in Scorched Earth in S.4! I can guarantee he wouldn't have done it had been Sam.)

At the end of the day, I have to write it off that they were far too close to the situation (Janet and Hammond) and that they didn't do what they were supposed to do (for the sake of television). That's what I'm arguing, I can't put on shippy glasses and think it's all romantic. Instead, they all got very lucky because they're fates are decided by a group of guys in a writing room who want to keep their show on the air.

[fems]

That's actually my point. The fact of the matter is that Janet doesn't know what will or what won't compromise the SGC (thus the existence of regs). The very fact that Jack wouldn't leave Sam is a huge warning sign. At the point that she asked Sam in 100 Days, there wasn't anything other than Sam's dedication to go on (and let's face it, Sam was a bit of a workaholic *anyway*, so it's easily written off). The point at which the armband incident happened...c'mon. Janet can't pretend that it's anything but a problem. Jack is clearly compromised as a commanding officer (they left Daniel at the end of S.1 and he was willing to blow Daniel up in Scorched Earth in S.4! I can guarantee he wouldn't have done it had been Sam.)

At the end of the day, I have to write it off that they were far too close to the situation (Janet and Hammond) and that they didn't do what they were supposed to do (for the sake of television). That's what I'm arguing, I can't put on shippy glasses and think it's all romantic. Instead, they all got very lucky because they're fates are decided by a group of guys in a writing room who want to keep their show on the air.

On the other hand, Jack only compromised his own life in Upgrades (well, its supposed flashbacks shown in Divide and Conquer) and the mission had already been completed, with the exception of returning home. If he were to die with Sam no one would ever know it was because he stayed behind willingly; they'd just assume his bracelet stopped working too, which it did shortly after he stayed. We don't even know if there was another forcefield between him and the exit where Daniel and Teal'c were waiting. For all we know he was just as trapped as Sam in the end. In Entity he showed that Earth's safety came before his personal feelings and zatted Sam, twice.

[hlndncr]

I see all points, but I just can't look at this situation realistically. To me it must be viewed romantically. I love Janet and Hammond and I'm not willing to besmirch their characters out of a sense of realism. I think everyone at the SGC walked a very fine and difficult line. They were doing things and facing situations that just don't appear in any training manuals. Each one of them had the best interests of earth and one another at heart and they made their decisions on this basis. That's how I reconcile any lapses in authenticity.

[Nynaeve506]

On the other hand, Jack only compromised his own life in Upgrades (well, its supposed flashbacks shown in Divide and Conquer) and the mission had already been completed, with the exception of returning home. If he were to die with Sam no one would ever know it was because he stayed behind willingly; they'd just assume his bracelet stopped working too, which it did shortly after he stayed. We don't even know if there was another forcefield between him and the exit where Daniel and Teal'c were waiting. For all we know he was just as trapped as Sam in the end. In Entity he showed that Earth's safety came before his personal feelings and zatted Sam, twice.

Yes, *if* he had died. But he didn't. He came home and admitted what had happened. We don't have to speculate, we have the actual 'mission' to run with. Jack admits he didn't leave because he cares too much for Sam. It's moot point whether or not there were more forcefields or more Jaffa. He didn't even *try* to leave. While the mission objective may have been accomplished there, he's not off duty, he's still a military/commanding officer.

I see all points, but I just can't look at this situation realistically. To me it must be viewed romantically. I love Janet and Hammond and I'm not willing to besmirch their characters out of a sense of realism. I think everyone at the SGC walked a very fine and difficult line. They were doing things and facing situations that just don't appear in any training manuals. Each one of them had the best interests of earth and one another at heart and they made their decisions on this basis. That's how I reconcile any lapses in authenticity.

My favorite scene in Jane Eyre is when she chooses to leave Rochester because she recognizes that morality exists not for the moments when we are strong, but when we are weak. The rules, while not comprehensive, exist to govern behavior precisely for this very reason - to keep people from running amok when the situation isn't 'by the book'. Besides, after four years, there's got to be a little more than chaos going on. Why are we so afraid to suggest that Hammond and Janet are flawed? They're characters and I think we all recognize that even the best people make bad judgment calls. It's a black mark on their characters, but that's okay, it makes them more interesting. I prefer the conflicted Janet or a softer Hammond. It makes them richer (and now I totally have a fic idea, guh!).

I love Janet and Hammond. That's why I won't put on my romantic glasses. I want them, rough around the edges, and all.

I live in the cavern of angst, that's about as romantic as I get LOL.

[hlndncr]

My favorite scene in Jane Eyre is when she chooses to leave Rochester because she recognizes that morality exists not for the moments when we are strong, but when we are weak. The rules, while not comprehensive, exist to govern behavior precisely for this very reason - to keep people from running amok when the situation isn't 'by the book'. Besides, after four years, there's got to be a little more than chaos going on. Why are we so afraid to suggest that Hammond and Janet are flawed? They're characters and I think we all recognize that even the best people make bad judgment calls. It's a black mark on their characters, but that's okay, it makes them more interesting. I prefer the conflicted Janet or a softer Hammond. It makes them richer (and now I totally have a fic idea, guh!).

I love Janet and Hammond. That's why I won't put on my romantic glasses. I want them, rough around the edges, and all.

I live in the cavern of angst, that's about as romantic as I get LOL.

I also love that part in Jane Eyre. And I get what you're saying. I don't expect my heroes to be perfect. But I'm not an anti-hero kind of gal either. I just prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that they made the right decision in difficult circumstances. If that makes me sappy, so be it. I can live with that.

[fems]

Yes, *if* he had died. But he didn't. He came home and admitted what had happened. We don't have to speculate, we have the actual 'mission' to run with. Jack admits he didn't leave because he cares too much for Sam. It's moot point whether or not there were more forcefields or more Jaffa. He didn't even *try* to leave. While the mission objective may have been accomplished there, he's not off duty, he's still a military/commanding officer.

Yes, he admitted that but he also couldn't save Sam by going through the forcefield again (and maybe drag her with him or pick her up in the hopes they could go through it together). Therefore, there's a good chance he never would have made it out alive either. But I do get what you're saying, don't get me wrong. And I know Hammond and Janet are flawed, most of the people working at the SGC are, realistically speaking!

My favorite scene in Jane Eyre is when she chooses to leave Rochester because she recognizes that morality exists not for the moments when we are strong, but when we are weak.

But, in this case, would it have been strong or weak of Jack to stay and choose to die with Sam?

[Nolamom]

Happy Valentine's Day Shippers!

[selene0789]

I missed this much in a day... It'll take me a month to catch up on the week I missed. And all I have to contribute right now is that Jane Eyre is my favorite romance novel of all time. See, it's the story of two conflicted lovers fighting an ocean of societal expectations, burdened by issues of class, age, and scarred pasts...

Huh... That actually reminds me of another love story I know. Go figure!

I'll revisit this when I've done some more catching up...