Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[hedwig]

About the "Sir" list...

What a huge undertaking this will be... she calls him "Sir" so much during each episode! Looking forward to seeing the end result.

{{{POL}}}... Good Luck with your surgery, your Shipper family will be thinking of you!

Wasn't the 2001 incident discussed recently? I'm sure it irked many people, not just shippers! It was at the end of shooting schedule, and the actors (RDA, Shanks & Chris) didn't want to wait around and shoot a new close-up scene. So instead it made them all look unfeeling toward Sam, which is so out of character, imo.

And, as for Nareem, I think Sam was creeped out a bit by his obsession with her, so don't think she would have ever reciprocated (imo)

About the "Sir" list, I'm most of the way through Season 4 and starting on Season 5. There are actually a couple of episodes where she doesn't call him "sir" at all, and others where she only does it once or twice.

I think Sam was fond of Narim, but that's all it would ever have been for her. She thought of him as a friend and nothing more.

I listened to the commentary on "2001" fairly recently, and I think the director said he tried and tried and tried everything he could think of to get the guys to act more concerned about Sam, but they just refused to do it. Amanda would have done it for any one of them, regardless of how tired she was (IMO). That scene in that episode seems to get talked about fairly often.

[hedwig]

I always got the impression that Sam wanted to leave it in the room in "Divide and Conquer". And seriously pondering 2 weeks about a marriage proposal. My sympathy goes to Jack in this ship as I've always felt that he was the one who was always true to his feelings - after all it's him who utters "Always"; "I care about her more than I'm supposed to" while all Sam says is "Not exactly"

While Sam was the one that said "this doesn't have to leave this room", I always thought Jack looked quite relieved at the idea, since he isn't very big on talking about feelings. (Plus, he could always have said he didn't want to leave it in the room, but that they'd talk about it later. I honestly don't think there would be anything wrong with that, since neither of them would report the other for having a discussion.) And it didn't matter anyway, because they immediately got interrupted by people walking into the room, and then finding out about Martouf and the events around that, so even if either of them wanted to, they didn't have time to. I also think that Sam was also true to her own feelings, but by the time of the events in "Grace" she decided that perhaps Jack didn't feel the same about her anymore and accepted the date with Pete, thinking that she might as well enjoy herself for awhile, not actually thinking it was going to get serious.

I do sympathize with Jack, but I also think that he had it in his power all the way along to speak up or say something. I'm not one of those that thinks it was always up to Sam as some people think. I think they both dropped clues along the way about their feelings, but the time just wasn't right to act on them, and they were both too stubborn and honorable (about the Air Force) to do anything. So, if anything, I think the "fault" lay with both of them, and not one or the other.

I'm a bit confused at your comment where Sam says "Not exactly". She only said that to Agent Barrett in "Ex Deus Machina". I don't remember her saying it in another episode. We never heard what she said when she was retested, so for all any of us know, she could have said something very similar to what Jack said. Plus, she did tell him when he was about to be retested "something neither one of us can admit, given our working relationship, our military ranks ..."

And while Jack did say "Always", he said it in "Threads", but never before that, so Sam really had no way of knowing that until "Threads".

I'm just expressing my own opinion here; not arguing or anything. So if I've said anything that you feel offended by, please forgive me.

[UhSir]

About the "Sir" list...

What a huge undertaking this will be... she calls him "Sir" so much during each episode! Looking forward to seeing the end result.

I'm thinking the list will only be for the "shippy" Sirs. Meaning, if it wasn't for the silly military regs she'd be saying something else like Jack or Dear or Jerk. Not the ordinary things like acknowledging an order with a simple "Yes sir."

[trinity3]

Hey everyone.

I agree. And I think we'll end up with many more categories. This ship is extremely complex!

If not where trinity3 suggests then maybe the "You know I love you, dammit!" category. No? *hangs head* Okay.

Oh good grief, I just realized I need to start keeping track of this list offline since I'll be putting them up on LJ. *puts away the wine*

I LOVE that category

*bows* thank you...you should see what I get from glances and inadvertent touches

Oh...and for good measure...this is what I get from...pie...

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5819208/3/American_Pi

(I know this isn't the fic rec thread, but the comment about just screamed out for it! "you got all that from...pie?")

That's ok I don't mind. I love me some good fic

Oh, and seriously! 2001 was just on and Sam hurtles through the gate and pitches down the bottom of the ramp and not a single ONE of her guys go to help her up? They men exchange a few witty things and then O'Neill says offhandedly, "Carter, you all right?"

How about, "NO, you moron, I'm NOT! I just hurtled through the gate and am lying in a pain-filled lump at your feet! A little help here!" I mean, sheesh. The man eats a piece of cake and passes out and Carter's cradling his head in her lap.

Nice...not.

Okay, little grumpy from pain here.

OT but related to forthcoming list absence:

Spoiler:

I am having HUGE back surgery on Monday. I have a 25% chance of ending up in a chair afterward, but a 75% chance of not. I have a fractured vertebrae and several other significant back issues relating to when I broke my back as a kid. Had followup surgery 12 years ago, but the damaged vertebra has fractured beyond natural repair. So...surgery. Just wanted to explain my expected absence from the list for a bit. Leiasky will post an update at some point to tel you all what's happening.

Despite Jack's lack of concern at the end of that ep, I still believe in

See you soon kid. Heal quickly.

I don't think Jack was the least bit threatened by Narim. But he wouldn't have been the least bit threatened by Pete, either, and look what happened there. Many people seem to think "it was always up to Sam", which I totally do not agree with, but apparently I'm in the minority with that opinion.

I agree. They're both responsible for keeping it in the room. Sam tried on at least 2 occasions to tell Jack how she felt and he wouldn't let her. Can't remember any time that Jack ever really did. His methods apparently were a lot more subtle, but I think this was also his way of protecting Sam.

I know some people have strong feelings against Pete but I've always thought, in reality, how long does a woman wait for a man who, for all intents and purposes, she knows she can't have.

Life goes on at some point and like imaginary Jacob told her, Sam deserved to love and be loved in return.

I really have no problem with Pete because that period showed both Sam and Jack that they couldn't ignore their feelings anymore.

But that's just me.

While Sam was the one that said "this doesn't have to leave this room", I always thought Jack looked quite relieved at the idea, since he isn't very big on talking about feelings. (Plus, he could always have said he didn't want to leave it in the room, but that they'd talk about it later. I honestly don't think there would be anything wrong with that, since neither of them would report the other for having a discussion.) And it didn't matter anyway, because they immediately got interrupted by people walking into the room, and then finding out about Martouf and the events around that, so even if either of them wanted to, they didn't have time to. I also think that Sam was also true to her own feelings, but by the time of the events in "Grace" she decided that perhaps Jack didn't feel the same about her anymore and accepted the date with Pete, thinking that she might as well enjoy herself for awhile, not actually thinking it was going to get serious.

I do sympathize with Jack, but I also think that he had it in his power all the way along to speak up or say something. I'm not one of those that thinks it was always up to Sam as some people think. I think they both dropped clues along the way about their feelings, but the time just wasn't right to act on them, and they were both too stubborn and honorable (about the Air Force) to do anything. So, if anything, I think the "fault" lay with both of them, and not one or the other.

I'm a bit confused at your comment where Sam says "Not exactly". She only said that to Agent Barrett in "Ex Deus Machina". I don't remember her saying it in another episode. We never heard what she said when she was retested, so for all any of us know, she could have said something very similar to what Jack said. Plus, she did tell him when he was about to be retested "something neither one of us can admit, given our working relationship, our military ranks ..."

And while Jack did say "Always", he said it in "Threads", but never before that, so Sam really had no way of knowing that until "Threads".

I'm just expressing my own opinion here; not arguing or anything. So if I've said anything that you feel offended by, please forgive me.

No need to apologize. You are, like all of us, entitled to your well expressed opinion

[hedwig]

I'm thinking the list will only be for the "shippy" Sirs. Meaning, if it wasn't for the silly military regs she'd be saying something else like Jack or Dear or Jerk. Not the ordinary things like acknowledging an order with a simple "Yes sir."

Darn. In that case, I'll have to delete about 95% of those times when she said "sir". I've gone through most of Season 4 and about half of Season 5, and there have actually been no times when she said it in a way that could be considered shippy. There were a few times when she sounded a bit peeved or exasperated with him and tacked on the "sir" to make it sound a little less insubordinate.

[UhSir]

Darn. In that case, I'll have to delete about 95% of those times when she said "sir". I've gone through most of Season 4 and about half of Season 5, and there have actually been no times when she said it in a way that could be considered shippy. There were a few times when she sounded a bit peeved or exasperated with him and tacked on the "sir" to make it sound a little less insubordinate.

Those would be ones for the list.

[SaraBahama]

OT but related to forthcoming list absence:

Spoiler:

I am having HUGE back surgery on Monday. I have a 25% chance of ending up in a chair afterward, but a 75% chance of not. I have a fractured vertebrae and several other significant back issues relating to when I broke my back as a kid. Had followup surgery 12 years ago, but the damaged vertebra has fractured beyond natural repair. So...surgery. Just wanted to explain my expected absence from the list for a bit. Leiasky will post an update at some point to tel you all what's happening.

Oh my! Prayers and hopes aimed your way. Your presence will be missed (even temporarily).

As for 2001, REALLY!!!! I choose to believe that because Kinsey was there Jack didn't want to give him any ammunition he could use against them; hence the pretended lack of concern. (I have no excuse for Daniel or Teal'c; they should have been down there with her!) After Kinsey left and we leave the scene, Jack was obviously by Sam's side and stayed with her until Janet made him get out of her way. That's how I chose to see it.

LOL -always the consumate shipper, Lucy.

I don't think Sam and Jack got together after season 8 especially because Sam is afraid and lets rules and regulation stand in their way. There's talk about sequels to the original movie so there's a chance we'll see what dean Devlin intended for Jack O'Neill - we'll see how that measures up with current franchise.
You know what I don't get ? Why don't TPTB let the writers of the novels write Sam and Jack like being married - even Picard got together with Crusher in ST TNG novels...
Regarding the counting of the Sirs from every episode I'm afraid I won't be able to help as I don't think I'll watch SG-1 again as Sam and Jack ship wasn't properly solved (I haven't watched a SG-1 episode in almost 2 years). Does any other shipper feel like it's incredibly hard to watch SG-1 knowing how it all turned out? Fics are a poor substitution for canon, still I can't seem to wrap my mind on how well some writers like Annerb, Rachel or Pol can write ship whereas TPTB failed to do it justice in the end (Not exactly, fishing and deleted scenes that don't even name Jack are very sad attempts at ship-resolution). To add insult to injury they confirm Mckay/Keller after only about a year and give Daniel/Vala a much more proper conclusion then Sam/Jack ever got.
Why did TPTB frak with us, shippers, stringing us along? Because, look at us - we're still here almost 3 years after the last DVD movie waiting for some sort of news about our ship - basically they frakked us up because we're loyal

Siles...you are certainly welcome to your voice and your opinion. And I seriously mean that -we should never downplay our co-member's thoughts. I also am frustrated that we never received on-screen confirmation.

We need to keep in mind that one of purposes TPTB had for leading us along was that it assured ratings. They wanted us to watch, so they lured us with the tension between Jack and Sam...resolving it would have taken away one of their best ratings tools. Also, and at least RDA has commented on this in interviews, they did not want to disrespect the Air Force during the run of the series by having two officers flaunting the rules and persuing a relationship (I think RDA said something about shag carpeting ).

I had some pretty depressing thoughts after watching through the end of Season 10 since they did not have Jack retire...I did not see a way for them to be together. Pol and others here have actually made logical, well-reasoned arguments about post-Threads periods where they were not in the same chain of command that would have allowed them to get together, and even marry. At the risk of repeating things that have already been said: Sam and Jack are pretty relaxed in the fishing scenes; Sam's demeanor has a lot less angst in the last 2 seasons as compared to the previous 8; why would Jack go work in Washington with the people he likes least in the world (politicians) doing what he hates most (paperwork) without a good reason (he can now persue a relationship with a certain blonde). In my head, they were married sometime after Threads and keep it low-key. Even if I NEVER get confirmation, this is how they will live and grow old in my mind...and my life is happier for it. (imo)

I think Sam was fond of Narim, but that's all it would ever have been for her. She thought of him as a friend and nothing more.

I listened to the commentary on "2001" fairly recently, and I think the director said he tried and tried and tried everything he could think of to get the guys to act more concerned about Sam, but they just refused to do it. Amanda would have done it for any one of them, regardless of how tired she was (IMO). That scene in that episode seems to get talked about fairly often.

1) I think Narim harbored some affection for Sam (her brilliant mind was a natural attraction point), and I think she was amazed by his culture and people and their advances, but I don't think she felt...feelings...for him. Not like that.

2) Ok -I'll allow them (the actors) an off-day, when they are not at their best. I agree...AT always seems gung-ho and ready to do what's needed.

While Sam was the one that said "this doesn't have to leave this room", I always thought Jack looked quite relieved at the idea, since he isn't very big on talking about feelings. (Plus, he could always have said he didn't want to leave it in the room, but that they'd talk about it later. I honestly don't think there would be anything wrong with that, since neither of them would report the other for having a discussion.) And it didn't matter anyway, because they immediately got interrupted by people walking into the room, and then finding out about Martouf and the events around that, so even if either of them wanted to, they didn't have time to. I also think that Sam was also true to her own feelings, but by the time of the events in "Grace" she decided that perhaps Jack didn't feel the same about her anymore and accepted the date with Pete, thinking that she might as well enjoy herself for awhile, not actually thinking it was going to get serious.
I do sympathize with Jack, but I also think that he had it in his power all the way along to speak up or say something. I'm not one of those that thinks it was always up to Sam as some people think. I think they both dropped clues along the way about their feelings, but the time just wasn't right to act on them, and they were both too stubborn and honorable (about the Air Force) to do anything. So, if anything, I think the "fault" lay with both of them, and not one or the other.
Plus, she did tell him when he was about to be retested "something neither one of us can admit, given our working relationship, our military ranks ..."
And while Jack did say "Always", he said it in "Threads", but never before that, so Sam really had no way of knowing that until "Threads".
I'm just expressing my own opinion here; not arguing or anything. So if I've said anything that you feel offended by, please forgive me.

No apology needed...we're all expressing our opinions here .
Something I read...not sure if it was pointed out by someone, or if I read it online, but part of the 'leave it in the room' involves the fact that since Jack is the higher ranking officer, if Sam was feeling pressured by his confession, she could press the issue...or not. By saying it's ok to 'leave it in the room' she established between them that she was not going to persue disciplinary action. They are 'ok with this'. (Ok -Pol & other distinguished military personel...If I totally messed that up, let me know. I know I read something somewhere, but I didn't save the link and now I can't find it).

I do not see either of them as 'poor me' people. I think neither one was ready to give up the good of the planet for a little personal pleasure and satisfaction (prior to 'Threads'). I think that Sam almost marrying Pete shook them both up pretty badly...nothing like that to open one's eyes. And hedwig...I agree that they were equally 'at fault'...

Darn. In that case, I'll have to delete about 95% of those times when she said "sir". I've gone through most of Season 4 and about half of Season 5, and there have actually been no times when she said it in a way that could be considered shippy. There were a few times when she sounded a bit peeved or exasperated with him and tacked on the "sir" to make it sound a little less insubordinate.

Don't get rid of the insubordinate 'Sir's !!! I like.

[hedwig]

Something I read...not sure if it was pointed out by someone, or if I read it online, but part of the 'leave it in the room' involves the fact that since Jack is the higher ranking officer, if Sam was feeling pressured by his confession, she could press the issue...or not. By saying it's ok to 'leave it in the room' she established between them that she was not going to persue disciplinary action. They are 'ok with this'. (Ok -Pol & other distinguished military personel...If I totally messed that up, let me know. I know I read something somewhere, but I didn't save the link and now I can't find it).

Hmmm ... that thought never even crossed my mind. This is the first time I've ever even seen it expressed by anyone. And while it is a possibility in that scenario, I don't think pursuing disciplinary action against Jack crossed her mind for even a split second. She cares too much for him to even be thinking along those lines.

I've always thought she did it to protect both of them, not just him. And by protecting I'm leaning toward the fact that she knew how he hated to talk about feelings and she was giving him an out so that he wouldn't have to talk about it with her. Plus, I don't think she really wanted to talk about it at that point either.

And I'm still stuck on that line of hers where she said "something neither one of us can admit..." She included herself in that statement, so even though we didn't hear what she said in her retesting, as far as I'm concerned she admitted her feelings with that statement.

(*Oh, and Sara, you're suggestions for the tag are great and I'm going to use most of them. So, ... thank you. *)

[hlndncr]

Need a quick list.

Best moments of angst.

I'll start.

POV - Our Sam watches Jack kiss AU Sam!

[hedwig]

Need a quick list.

Best moments of angst.

I'll start.

POV - Our Sam watches Jack kiss AU Sam!

Lost City - "Jack, please."
Lost City - Sam puts her hand on the stasis chamber where Jack is.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

In the Line of Duty - Sam calling out for Jack.
In the Line of Duty - Jack calling out for Sam to wake up by calling her "Sam"

[hedwig]

Solitudes - caring for Jack.
Solitudes - Sam climbs out of the cave and realizes there is nothing but ice all around.

Paradise Lost - Sam is crying in the locker room; Teal'c comes in and comforts her.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Heroes Part 2 - Jack getting hit by the staff blast and sam running to his aide.

[Akamaimom]

Janet: Is this a problem?
Sam: No. Of course not.

I think that's angsty.

Sorry I haven't been around lately--I had to drive from my home to Idaho for a relative's funeral. But I've read and caught up, and will comment soon.

[hedwig]

Death Knell - fear that Sam may not have survived.