Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[Pol]

I recall reading in an interview that when Amanda saw that she was not going to be Dorothy in that Oz bit, she called Robert Cooper and wanted to know why, since she had always been "Dorothy" up until then. I don't remember what his reason for it was, but apparently ATe graciously accepted his excuse and didn't make a big deal out of it.

Oh, she wasn't so sanguine about it when she was in LA last year, I think it was. A fan asked about that and Amanda was quite blunt in her response about not being pleased. In the end, she finished with a tongue in cheek, "at least my dress was pretty."

[Akamaimom]

On Dorothy and WoOz:

To me, though, the Dorothy character is so immature and naive. While Vala is nowhere near naive, she is incredibly immature about things. I've never liked Dorothy. She's a bit of a whiner, and it takes her forever to figure anything out. And then she becomes an enabler to the other travelers. I can't see Sam existing forever in that kind of life. Glinda, on the other hand, besides being a mature authority figure, is also a quiet force for good. She's pretty and sparkly and aims people in the right direction without being overbearing about it. She's wise, allowing Dorothy and the others to learn what they need to learn on their own, while directing them in the right way.

And I never got the idea from the show that Jack loved the movie so very much at all. I think that he might have seen it as a child and remembered key points. But I have always gotten the feel from the show that his use of the phrases and ideas from WoO is both tongue in cheek and a little mocking. I don't like the movie, and I use those phrases. Who in the English speaking world doesn't?

I don't think it's the same thing as the Simpsons. He adores that show, but you don't get many lines from it in the show (other than the occasional "D'oh") because it's not as instantly recognizable to the rest of humanity.

I was watching "Shades of Grey" this evening, and O'Neill says, "Hello, Newman." when he meets his new team member. While it's instantly familiar to me (Seinfeld, anyone? Even with his inflection.), it's not going to be to everyone else. WoO is so much a part of the American/English vernacular that the phrases reach across all age/social groups to be unifying.

So, while I understand that the symbol of Dorothy (female) traveling with three men (the rest of them) is inherently suited to Sam, I think that a further and deeper analysis of the dynamic there is more conducive to Sam being Glinda than Dorothy. Of course, I don't understand the inner workings of the cast and crew and PTB dynamic, but as a viewer, it seemed right to me. Vala in the weaker role (albeit the main role) and Sam in the role of the wiser and deeper Glinda.


On the Pirate Movie:

I've seen both it and the 1983 version of Penzance so many times that I got them tangled up. Kevin Kline was the Pirate King in the 1983 film. The Pirate Movie was Christopher Atkins and Kristy MacNicol. It was campy, and dreadfully awful, but when you're twelve-ish, and Christopher Atkins (remember, it was the 80s) was parading about in little more than a pair of white breeches and tanned skin, well, you forget the awful part.

And I'll take Kevin Kline however I can get him. Even if I have to trudge through Linda Ronstadt to do it. She was poorly cast, but Kevin Kline is and was a fine actor and enjoyable to watch, and a frakking good Pirate King. I would maintain that Sam might enjoy watching him too. Linda Ronstadt and all. And I can totally see Jack watching either one with a pained expression on his face, thinking up ways to make Sam pay him back for having made him sit through the movie with her.

And now I shall go to bed to dream of the perfect way to dodge the tomatoes that I am sure will be hurled my way.

[HolyAngelQueenSG-1]

I think is Jack wedding Sam on three movie is: Stargate: revolation....

[hlndncr]

And now I shall go to bed to dream of the perfect way to dodge the tomatoes that I am sure will be hurled my way.

Too tired to throw a tomato or I definitely would.

The Oz references started because Jonathan Glassner threw one in sometime in the first season and then it became a game to see how many times they could include it. But you'll notice most of those references do come from Jack. I believe he does like that movie.

And other than being pretty and sparkly, I don't see Sam as Glinda at all. Sorry but your character assessment here just doesn't ring true for me. Glinda was more like Walter, there at the beginning and the end, and no real role in the adventure. She might as well have been saying "Chevron 7 locked."

Sam was definitely Dorothy, the heart and soul of the team (until her character was tossed aside by TPTB).

As an aside, the character of Dorothy was originally meant to be played by a much younger actress (think early Shirley Temple); so that's why she appears oddly immature for her age.

[iiradned]

All this talk of musicals! This just popped into my fron.

Spoilered for length and for--well--

Not So Rude Awakening

Spoiler:

Something--odd.

Jack shifted and frowned, lifting his forearm nearly imperceptibly to peer out from underneath it. There was a sound--a weird one. Like moaning. Or the pipes groaning in the walls.

Humming?

Singing. What the heck?

He scooted upwards in bed, forcing one eye open. Singing. Who could be singing? He certainly wasn't. And his wife didn't sing. At least not since the whole Urgo/Row Boat incident.

Did she?

It was coming from the bathroom. Water was rushing--the shower, he presumed--and that chirpy rhythm that could only be--singing?

Jack rolled out of bed, his feet landing quietly on the rug beside his bed. That rug hadn't been there three weeks ago. Heck, it hadn't been there three days ago. Ever since Sam had come back from the Hammond, she'd been actively remaking his house. Not that he was complaining. He'd always intended to put a rug there, it just hadn't happened until now. For the barest moment he stood still, digging his feet into the plush fibers underneath him. It felt cozy on his toes, warmer than the reclaimed hardwood of his bedroom floor, and softer too. Nice.

The room was chilly--especially coming from the cocoon of his bed. Especially since he was only wearing the boxers he'd pulled back on the night before. Not that he was a big pajama guy--more like sweats and tees--but since his wife had come home, wearing stuff to bed had just gotten in the way. He sighed happily and started towards the sounds that had woken him.

Sam hit a high note just as Jack made it to the bathroom. She didn't pause as he shoved the door open, and didn't appear to notice him pad across the fluffy rugs on the bathroom tile--another one of his wife's additions. He knew that he was effectively camouflaged by the towels hanging from the rack on the glass shower door, and he used that to his advantage, standing quietly, his arms folded across his chest as he listened.

"I am the very model--" It really was more mumbling than singing. Judging by how she'd shifted into an aggressive hum, he surmised she was washing her face. She quieted as she rinsed, and then it started again. "--both simple and quadratical. About binomial theorom I'm teeming with a lot of news, with many cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse."

He grinned in realization, casting a look sideways out the bathroom door and back towards their room, where his uniform jacket lay on the floor on her side of the bed. He'd thrown it there himself after divesting his wife of it. Boy, howdy, it had looked really good on her the night before. Not officially sanctioned by the military, he knew--but hot, nonetheless.

There'd been a party. In his honor--or more correctly, in honor of his second star. "Major General Jack O'Neill" had quite the ring to it. His wife had been rather congratulatory. Multiple times. So much so that this morning she was--singing.

"Um, Sam?"

She sputtered to a stop, her hands on top of her head. She'd been lathering. "Yeah?"

"What'cha doing?"

She took her time in turning to rinse the shampoo out of her hair. "What does it look like I'm doing?"

"I can see you're showering--but what's with the singing?"

"I'm not singing."

"I beg to differ."

Steam wafted towards him when she cracked the door of the shower to look at him. If he tilted his head just so he could peek at the good stuff. So, of course, he tilted.

Her brow tilted upward. "It's just a song that's been running through my head."

"Since last night?"

"Well, it seemed appropriate."

"Pirates of Penzance, right?"

The crack widened and she struck a little pose. The flirt. "How'd you know?"

"I'm not entirely uncultured, you know."

"No--I know that--"

"In fact, you might say that I know more of tactics than a novice in a nunnery." He maneuvered his body through the opening of the door, closing it behind him with a decisive clunk. Reaching out, he pulled his wife towards him, his hands sliding along her sudsy skin. "And that "I've a smattering of elemental strategy."

Despite the heated water, Sam shivered, grinning up at him. "You don't say?"

"Darn straight." He bent his head to lick a few drops of water from her mouth. "Because I, Colonel Carter, am a Major General."

Absolutely brilliant!!!

[iiradned]

I've read the western (by a.loquita, I believe) and the Austen one (don't remember the author)... they were both awesome fics!

Me too!
Linky time!

Jane Austen fanfic: A Maneuvering Business

Western fanfic: Cast Your Fate to the Wind by A.Loquita there is also, afterwards, another one shot, but it's M rated so I can't link towards it.

On the Old West Stargate theme, Vicky Ocean has posted Marshal O'Neill & Doc Carter and The Invaders a prequel to Threadbare where the Goa'uld invade Earth in the late 1800s.

Nice to see her writing another SG-1 fic.

[Bekki]

True - Dorothy is 9 in the original book (I think...that's just off the top of my head, and I haven't done WoOz in years!)

I wonder if Jack would enjoy The Wiz...

[Lilac736]

Too tired to throw a tomato or I definitely would.

The Oz references started because Jonathan Glassner threw one in sometime in the first season and then it became a game to see how many times they could include it. But you'll notice most of those references do come from Jack. I believe he does like that movie.

And other than being pretty and sparkly, I don't see Sam as Glinda at all. Sorry but your character assessment here just doesn't ring true for me. Glinda was more like Walter, there at the beginning of the end and no real role in the adventure. She might as well have been saying "Chevron 7 locked."

Sam was definitely Dorothy, the heart and soul of the team (until her character was tossed aside by TPTB).

As an aside, the character of Dorothy was originally meant to be played by a much younger actress (think early Shirley Temple); so that's why she appears oddly immature for her age.

Yes, and isn't it like in the middle of the night for you? Are you still awake or up already?
Like I said before I don't care much for seasons 9 and 10. That goes for "200" too. I did not like any of the little films, except the one with invisible Jack. And even though I loved Martin in "Point of no Return" I think the whole story about the Wormhole X-treme movie is just to over the top for me.
I tend to agree with you about Jack and Oz, the fact that most of the quotes come form him could be a hint that he actually likes it. Like with so many other things too I think you could see it either way.

[Akamaimom]

Too tired to throw a tomato or I definitely would.

The Oz references started because Jonathan Glassner threw one in sometime in the first season and then it became a game to see how many times they could include it. But you'll notice most of those references do come from Jack. I believe he does like that movie.

And other than being pretty and sparkly, I don't see Sam as Glinda at all. Sorry but your character assessment here just doesn't ring true for me. Glinda was more like Walter, there at the beginning of the end and no real role in the adventure. She might as well have been saying "Chevron 7 locked."

Sam was definitely Dorothy, the heart and soul of the team (until her character was tossed aside by TPTB).

As an aside, the character of Dorothy was originally meant to be played by a much younger actress (think early Shirley Temple); so that's why she appears oddly immature for her age.

I just can't see it. I can't stand the movie, and I'm not an ex-black ops sniper type soldier. I think we'll all have to agree to disagree?

Absolutely brilliant!!!

Thanks to all who read the ficlet and liked it--I appreciate it! At least there's something we can agree on!

True - Dorothy is 9 in the original book (I think...that's just off the top of my head, and I haven't done WoOz in years!)

I wonder if Jack would enjoy The Wiz...

I'm sure Jack WOULD enjoy the Wiz. Most guys like a good pee--

OH. The MOVIE the Wiz. I don't see that happening, either. Because if he DID like the WoOz, as postulated here by the majority of y'all, then he'd most likely have very little patience for such a glorified *******ization of the story/film.

Oh, crap. I'm a tomato magnet, aren't I?

**sigh**

[Rachel500]

Sam, Jack, Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz...

Personally, I see Jack as having a great love of classic film and Hollywood. He is generally the one to use Oz references (including in Seth where he even calls Sam 'Dorothy' in a shocked response to her killing the Goa'uld), and they've never come across as snarky to me but as a fond kind of way of highlighting the absurdity of their lives.

Sam was always Dorothy until that clip in '200' which was wrong on all levels: no Jack at all (even though he was the one who usually referenced it as a character) and then Sam as Glinda!

However, given the clip is Vala's version of the tale, it's no surprise that there's no Jack, and that Vala puts herself centre stage as Dorothy (along with pigtails). And from that perspective, I like that Vala's view of Sam is as a beautiful, mature Good Witch who sets Vala on the right path - because from Vala's perspective I think this would be her view of Sam - someone who is beautiful, more mature than herself, more confident and who works miracles; someone she respects as a woman and who does make her want to keep to the right path.

[ddc]

I saw Miss Siagon a few years ago and it was amazing... but I have admit that I think the material is too heavy and close-to-home for Jack to want to take Sam to see... I'd think he'd want to take her to see something that would cheer her up (and put her in the mood?) rather than bring her down (imo)!

Not if he likes Madam Butterfly, which is what it's based on. Personally I don't care for the Butterfly story (not it being a tragic opera, that's a given in a lot of operas, but Lt. Pinkerton just annoys me). I never saw Miss Saigon because of that.

Someone mentioned Sam's liking the old movie musicals. I can see Jack surprising her with a BluRay set of those classic musicals, with both of them watching on a day like today - stuck at home because of a snow storm.

[Akamaimom]

Sam, Jack, Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz...

Personally, I see Jack as having a great love of classic film and Hollywood. He is generally the one to use Oz references (including in Seth where he even calls Sam 'Dorothy' in a shocked response to her killing the Goa'uld), and they've never come across as snarky to me but as a fond kind of way of highlighting the absurdity of their lives.

Sam was always Dorothy until that clip in '200' which was wrong on all levels: no Jack at all (even though he was the one who usually referenced it as a character) and then Sam as Glinda!

However, given the clip is Vala's version of the tale, it's no surprise that there's no Jack, and that Vala puts herself centre stage as Dorothy (along with pigtails). And from that perspective, I like that Vala's view of Sam is as a beautiful, mature Good Witch who sets Vala on the right path - because from Vala's perspective I think this would be her view of Sam - someone who is beautiful, more mature than herself, more confident and who works miracles; someone she respects as a woman and who does make her want to keep to the right path.

Yes. This. Thanks for putting it so much better than I ever could have!

And we can quibble all we want over the fact that the writers made it Vala's version of it, but in the end, that's what stands in canon. I still liked it, and I guess for us (okay, me) who don't like the movie in the first place, it was a good compromise.

[Lucycat]

On the Old West Stargate theme, Vicky Ocean has posted Marshal O'Neill & Doc Carter and The Invaders a prequel to Threadbare where the Goa'uld invade Earth in the late 1800s.

Nice to see her writing another SG-1 fic.

Awesome, I love her fics! Thanks for posting the link!

[MidwifeOnBoard]

Sam, Jack, Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz...

Personally, I see Jack as having a great love of classic film and Hollywood. He is generally the one to use Oz references (including in Seth where he even calls Sam 'Dorothy' in a shocked response to her killing the Goa'uld), and they've never come across as snarky to me but as a fond kind of way of highlighting the absurdity of their lives.

Sam was always Dorothy until that clip in '200' which was wrong on all levels: no Jack at all (even though he was the one who usually referenced it as a character) and then Sam as Glinda!

However, given the clip is Vala's version of the tale, it's no surprise that there's no Jack, and that Vala puts herself centre stage as Dorothy (along with pigtails). And from that perspective, I like that Vala's view of Sam is as a beautiful, mature Good Witch who sets Vala on the right path - because from Vala's perspective I think this would be her view of Sam - someone who is beautiful, more mature than herself, more confident and who works miracles; someone she respects as a woman and who does make her want to keep to the right path.

I really, really like your assessment of that scene. It really rings true, IMO.

[Lucycat]

I think it would have been good for Sam to have been Dorothy, ONLY IF Jack was Scarecrow. Since Cameron was Scarecrow in 200, I was okay with Dorothy being Vala, because Sam is Jack's Dorothy, not Cam's!

I also think Jack likes the Wizard of Oz. I never considered his references to be his mocking of the movie. I think it's interesting that you AKAMAIMOM hate the Wizard of OZ, but yet you wrote a great fanfic based on it, and you named one of your original characters Glinda from Kansas!