Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[NightGloom]

IB.

I've been VERY VERY happy so far with season 8 so far. Carter has been acting very professionally, more or less, there have been no DOED incidents, no effing shippy music to emphasize a Special Moment...I could *almost* say I'm back to not cringing when I see her alone onscreen with Jack (which has happened, what, ONCE so far this season -- admittedly, it isn't that far into the season) but going by the Threads Spoilers I've seen/read, if that happens, Jack is in the toilet, dramatically speaking, as well as Carter.

What I'm worried about, insofar as I'm allowing myself to invest in this season so far, is that the first half of the season will be decent, with no J&S crap, but the second half will be all about Sam and her Love Life. It'll be worse if they go that route, since it's maybe the final season, and they've been showing Carter acting like a soldier and not the Girl.

And I have to say, I'm not thrilled with the spoilers about Teal'c this season, either, in the shippy sense. Even CJ wasn't sure how the fans would take his character's sex life, going with the timing of the eps to be shown. Frankly, I'd rather NOT know anything about thier sex lives on screen.

Noromo all the way.

Completely agree! Ship makes me very uncomfortable in the first place, now with Teal'c? That's just weird. The only supposed ship that hasn't really annoyed me was D/J since I didn't even pick up on it until I started going on Stargate websites. Although, I must admit, sometimes it is fun to annoy shippers by screaming "ANGST!" at the screen repeatedly (yeah, I'm evil), but that's better with The X-Files since that show did go down the tube as soon as they started focusing more on ship and I'm praying that doesn't happen to SG-1.

[Gategrrl]

The only supposed ship that hasn't really annoyed me was D/J since I didn't even pick up on it until I started going on Stargate websites. Although, I must admit, sometimes it is fun to annoy shippers by screaming "ANGST!" at the screen repeatedly (yeah, I'm evil), but that's better with The X-Files since that show did go down the tube as soon as they started focusing more on ship and I'm praying that doesn't happen to SG-1.

See, that's the thing with the J/D ship stuff -- and it IS ship, even if it's also slash -- is that it's ALL SUBTEXT and not in our faces! If you don't see it, you don't see it!

That's the way it should be -- everyone projecting what they want without imposing it on everyone else.

[NightGloom]

YES! People just projecting on very subtle ships makes everyone happy, even us anti-shippers. I can look past the extra arm touches or the longer-than-should-be looks (which is what most "ships" should be made of), but most shippers don't. If they add all the touchy-feely-kissy emotional stuff than it makes most of us anti-shippers uncomfortable or angry and even some shippers don't like it because it's not the way they imagined it. If it's just subtle, shippers can play out their whole little fantasy J/S ship or whatever ship in fan fics or what have you.

[Gategrrl]

I know...Dontcha want them to be happy?

Nope, a happy couple makes for a boring couple. Why should THEY be happy? Oh, and IMO, they're pretty boring now anyway. What's been interesting about Jack? What's so interesting about Carter? They aren't interesting together.

I'd've much rather have seen Jack with hints of ship with Janet, in the past, when she was alive. They had sparkage, she was spunky, she could talk back to him and Hammond. Not that I'd would have wanted his doctor together with him, either, but the sparkage was there.

Ooops,that's right, ship it over to the ship discussion thread.

JackandSam -- The Regs Are There For a Reason!

[Madeleine]

Interesting point though - *would* they be happy? I can't see it.

Not all happy couples are boring. Zoe and Wash (Firefly) were happy together, even when they argued, and were gripping to watch. JMO. You're right about Sam and Jack though. If they can't be interesting together in an Unrequited Love / Forbidden Feelings scenario there's precious little hope that they'd be interesting in a Proper Relationship.

[Gategrrl]

Interesting point though - *would* they be happy? I can't see it.

Not all happy couples are boring. Zoe and Wash (Firefly) were happy together, even when they argued, and were gripping to watch. JMO. You're right about Sam and Jack though. If they can't be interesting together in an Unrequited Love / Forbidden Feelings scenario there's precious little hope that they'd be interesting in a Proper Relationship.

Heh. See, when I wrote that, after I posted it, I just knew that was going to come under scrutiny. But that's true, not all happy couples are boring.

But honestly, IMO, Jack has gotten to be boring all by himself. Aside from fishing...and the old background stuff...what's new that we've learned about him? No, that's not it either.

Yeah, Jack is boring. And why? He had some incredible things happen to him in the sixth season, the most important of which was -- He was tortured to death many many times. We never really saw the fall-out to that. Not directly. What else...his friend and colleague died, and no reaction! He friend and colleague came back from a long time with the "dead" and what? No reaction (not really). He doesn't draw me in. There's very little *there* of his personality. Or something like that.

Carter was interesting when she had some kind of inner conflict (which is also missing from Jack, too) with Jolinar, but they kakked that storyline. We had a prime view through her what it was like to BE a host, even for a little while, and they blew it after the third season. She's boring now, too.

The two of them together? A boring implosion of the ennui kind!

The couple from Firefly that you mentioned: their happy relationship was interesting because THEY were interesting. They had an interesting dynamic. She was his commander (below the captain) and he was the pilot. She was the fighter and soldier, he was more of a high-tail it back to the ship sort of guy. They were each quirky -- he played with dinosaur toys! And that's the difference between Zoe&Wash and Jack&Sam.

[Madeleine]

What I loved about Zoe and Wash was that although she was the soldier and he was the high-tail one, and even though she was his boss, their relationship came off as surprisingly equal. He had it in him to dig his heels in when he disagreed with her, and however much tougher she was he managed never to look unmanly. It's usual, in television and even books, for a Really Hard Strong Woman to be partnered by either an Even Harder Stronger Man (or one equally so) or by a Man Who Doesn't Wear The Trousers Cos She's Such A Ballbreaker. There were plenty of positive traits besides toughness that he had more of than she did, but most importantly Wash was less tough than his wife without being portrayed as a pansy, and I *really* found that refreshing.

Yes, I know there's a topic. I can get back there...

I'm thinking of the relationships on TV that I have enjoyed, and why I enjoyed them. Usually it's cos there's something about them that's a bit *different* - as above with Wash and Zoe, or with John and Aeryn who were both such fishes out of water and she had that whole two-of-him-and-the-wrong-one-dies thing. I can't see anything S/J has that sets it apart; the only vaguely unusual thing is the regs issue, and if they had ever made an issue of it (court martial? Seriously obviously inappropriate battlefield decision that kicks off a rumpus?) it might have something to recommend it. But Long Lingering Looks and a certain type of music, that I can get anywhere.

[ShadowMaat]

That's because there IS nothing that sets it apart. Not as far as I'm concerned. It's your standard cliche: Boy Hero and Girl Hero in Love. They're together because they're the main characters and they're the most obvious pairing. I don't see anything beyond that. Certainly no chemistry, no sparkage, no bonding or things in common (outside the job).

[Gategrrl]

I can't see anything S/J has that sets it apart; the only vaguely unusual thing is the regs issue, and if they had ever made an issue of it (court martial? Seriously obviously inappropriate battlefield decision that kicks off a rumpus?) it might have something to recommend it. But Long Lingering Looks and a certain type of music, that I can get anywhere.

Yes, Zoe&Wash were interesting, and fascinating to watch -- esp when Wash had this fear that Zoe and Mal (the capt) had a UST thing going on. And the way that was resolved was great!

That's the crux of Jack & Sam, isn't it, tho? It's the kind of thing you can get *anywhere* in any other show. There's nothing special about them or between them that raises them above mediocrity. No humor. No connection. No smiles. No personality that even *clashes*! Or does anything much. I guess the distinguishing thing is, one half of the pair is RDA, and he's basically playing himself nowadays.

[NightGloom]

Another thing I don't like about this ship is that people are claiming that it helps character development. In my mind though, it's seriously hindering it because both characters are STILL lingering in this lovey-dovey type mindset.

[ShadowMaat]

It isn't character development, it's a cheap substitute for it. Like decaf coffee or sugar-free chocolate. *shudders*

[KorbenDirewolf]

After seeing "Affinity" last week and "Covenant" this week, I'm starting to think that this whole Pete thing is going down the drain... Was it just me or did anyone else pick up on some sort of lingering thing, for lack of a better term, with Carter and Coleson? Ah well, at least it wasn't Jack.

[Dani347]

After seeing "Affinity" last week and "Covenant" this week, I'm starting to think that this whole Pete thing is going down the drain... Was it just me or did anyone else pick up on some sort of lingering thing, for lack of a better term, with Carter and Coleson? Ah well, at least it wasn't Jack.

No, fortunately, I didn't see anything between Sam and Coleson. For once, a man not smitten by Sam.

And, now, more than ever, I'm against J/S for reasons I've detailed before, and only those reasons.

[KorbenDirewolf]

It was probably not anything real that I was seeing.. Since I'm not exactly sure how to phrase what it was. I'm probably just paranoid and conditioned to believe that something is going on between Carter and any male she has a scene alone with.


Now I've just got to wonder how long the Powers will keep this whole Pete engagement going.

[ShadowMaat]

The thing with Alec didn't bother me too much. I figure Sam is a lot like Amanda in that sometimes what is simply her having warm fuzzies for someone gets misinterpreted as her having lustful feelings. I think she likes Alec as a person and has a lot of respect for his intelligence and capabilities, but I didn't get the feeling that TPTB were trying to push them together in a shippy way.