Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Gategrrl]

I believe it was the DVD commentaries. Martin Wood, I think, talked about blocking the scenes in such a way as to imply a special closeness between Sam and Jack and putting a distance between Jack and Daniel.

Also, if you watch how the characters/actors are blocked, you'll see how often (or not) RDA and MS or RDA and AT are in the same shots. You'll also note the increasing amounts of close-ups on AT's big blue eyes and the decreasing number of reaction shots/closing shots on DJ and Teal'c. PdL has said in either a commentary or an interview, how great AT is to do close-ups on.

But this is a antiJ&S ship thread.

I think it's pretty obvious how the close-ups, the wide-eyed reaction shots, etc feed into the shcmoopsy Ship moments. And how Sam is in practically every shot with Jack now. And when she's not, it's all about her.

[Bonnie Way]

O'Neill seems to be totally non-reactive toward Carter, whenever the shippy music comes up and she starts making comments about their unfulfilled relationship. There just seems to be no chemistry there to work with.

[Gategrrl]

O'Neill seems to be totally non-reactive toward Carter, whenever the shippy music comes up and she starts making comments about their unfulfilled relationship. There just seems to be no chemistry there to work with.

That pretty much sums it up, Bonnie. That's why it all seems so one-sided, and I get so baffled by how it can be thought that at the beginning, Jack could have been the one that had more feelings than Sam. At least, that's what some think. Jack panting after Sam? Don't think so. Well, maybe for a lustful minute, but anything more than that...eww.

[darklilac]

I believe it was the DVD commentaries. Martin Wood, I think, talked about blocking the scenes in such a way as to imply a special closeness between Sam and Jack and putting a distance between Jack and Daniel.

Yes, that's what I was talking about.
That and of course the almost zero scenes between Jack and Daniel compared to the huge amount of scenes between Jack and Sam, or the fact that they cut scenes between JD while spending hours to create the right atmosphere for the ship scenes between JS.

And that's one of the weakest point of the JS ship, TPTB(producers, directors) have to create all these big moments between Jack and Sam, with lights off, camera angles here and there, nobody around, big close ups of Sam, her huge eyes, music and all of that.

For the close friendship aspect it's just absurd, when Jack and Daniel are together there's no need for music, lights and stuff like that, they just click.
Same for Jack and Teal'c, even if they're not at the level of Jack and Daniel, also for the fact that Teal'c can't express a large range of emotions.

For the a love relationship aspect, then I have to say that I saw many male/female couples on tv and if there was chemistry there was no need of any "special effects".

There's no chemistry between Jack and Sam as in a love relationship, no matter how hard they try, while there was something when they were just friends, too bad they just can't go back.

[Gategrrl]

There's no chemistry between Jack and Sam as in a love relationship, no matter how hard they try, while there was something when they were just friends, too bad they just can't go back.

Well, I dunno, I think they could. See, Jack is so unresponsive, so "constipated", so unexpressive, uncomfortable and blank around Sam now that it's evident (even to him?) that she has "feelings" for him, I think they could save it. Just have Sam come right out, in Jack's office, and say to him that she was acting like a git to him in the Tel'tac after he gave her command of SG-1 [snorts] and that she realizes what she feels for him is the kind of respect any decent commanding officer should get, and that she was confused about that. End of problem. Or most of it, anyway.

If they went back to being "just friends", like how I liked them in the beginning, there would be a period of discomfort. Jack would be second-guessing Sam all the time, wondering if she was crossing the line again at a later date. But if she maintained a purely professional stance with him, I think it could be gotten over. Esp if she kept up with Pete.

[KorbenDirewolf]

That sounds like a solution that could work.. Have her admit it, have him pass on it and leave it alone from then on. When it was just the background I didn't really have any problem with it, but now that whole scenes are being added to advance it in place of action or other plot advancement it makes me almost want to give up watching any new episodes. If it weren't for Teal'c, although he doesn't seem to be doing much at all lately , and wanting to know how they get out of the cliffhanger; I probably wouldn't watch much more of SG-1.

[Sue_Jackson]

How about POV? Can anyone watch that without cringing? I know I can't. Especially, the bedroom scene with Jack and alt Sam. I don't know that whole scene just makes me uncomfortable. I know it's alt Sam and not the real Sam, but it still makes me feel uncomfortable. I usually close my eyes during that scene. Oh....and there's just the goodbye scene. Yuck!

[Gategrrl]

If it weren't for Teal'c, although he doesn't seem to be doing much at all lately , and wanting to know how they get out of the cliffhanger; I probably wouldn't watch much more of SG-1.

*cough* Sorry, that was a cliff-hanger? Jack-as-popsicle just doesn't do it for as a cliff-hanger. He's the lead actor. There's Sam the WonderWoman and her Push-Up bra to solve the Ancient Tech problem. (sarcasm there: sorry, I'm not a Sam Fan any longer) And there's Daniel to help Super!Sam translate what she can't understand on her own, and that'll be that. I didn't find the cliff-hanger to be hanging at all, nor full of tension. IMO, it felt hum-drum, ho-hum, oh, Jack is in danger.

It seems from the spoilers that Teal'c is actually getting a fair amount of focus this coming season -- if it isn't taken over by Sam and her Love Life. I'm just not interested in seeing ANY of the team in a romantic situation or "gettin' some". It's not what I watch Stargate for. Anyhow, I am glad Teal'c is getting some story-line that is Jaffa and nonJaffa related. He deserves it. He's been the most underused, underappreciated, unpotential realized character I've ever seen on a SF show.

*ahem* Anti-J&S ship thread. Right. Yeah, because of the way Sam and Jack have been badly written, out of character, all to satisfy some sort of agenda or two in the exec's offices, just frustrates me to no end. Sam WAS so much more than her chest, her floofy blond hair, her Wonder Woman stance (as Jack gets out of the elevator as he finishes his crossword puzzle) and Big Eyes of Love -- and now she's not. So she gets chased by a Supersoldier. Big Deal. You *know* that she's in no danger. Nothing is going to happen to her. TPTB are in love with her. And I don't think Sam is going to improve in season 8, either. Not as long as her love life is her primary thing. (all my opinion, of course: wouldn't want anyone to think I was stating FACTS)

[ShadowMaat]

Yep. TPTB killed off you-know-who in Heroes under the pretext of showing that "no one is safe" but even that is frankly a joke. None of The Four are going to die- permanently- and as long as that holds true, any "life in peril" moments are going to be somewhat lessened by that knowledge. It's why I was so boggled by people who were freaking out thinking that Jack was the one who'd died in Heroes. I mean, come ON, he's JACK, you know for a fact he isn't going to die. Or at least, he isn't gonna stay dead.

Of course, that's true of most shows, but there are some that manage to create dramatic moments anyway. Alias used to be excellent at the cliffhanger endings... until they decided that ship was more important than anything else. Sound familiar? Stargate used to be able to create good drama, too, but since my idea of "drama" is not "will they or won't they" (or as is more accurate in this case, "WHEN will they?") then I don't find much of the tension very tense. It's sad. I miss the good old days when the story was more important than the ship.

[Gategrrl]

Yep. TPTB killed off you-know-who in Heroes under the pretext of showing that "no one is safe" but even that is frankly a joke.

Of course, that's true of most shows, but there are some that manage to create dramatic moments anyway. Alias used to be excellent at the cliffhanger endings... until they decided that ship was more important than anything else. Sound familiar? Stargate used to be able to create good drama, too, but since my idea of "drama" is not "will they or won't they" (or as is more accurate in this case, "WHEN will they?") then I don't find much of the tension very tense. It's sad. I miss the good old days when the story was more important than the ship.

Hmm. I think Alias conflicted with Angel or Buffy at one point, so I rarely saw it - tho it did look like a kick-butt show. By the time I got turned off Angel, and watched an ep of Alias, the storyline was too "huh, what?" for me to get into it. I'll have to beg borrow buy or steal the season DVDs (at least s1 and 2) to see what I was missing.

Part of the problem I had with Jack-in-Peril or Sam-in-Peril was/is this: as I said before, Jack/RDA is the headliner. Sam/AT is the character being pushed to the forefront. Neither of them really acted like they were in danger, and their foes in both cases (alien tech mind-takeover; erratic, incompetent supersoldier) I couldn't take seriously. I know, I am a Daniel fan, okay, I admit it: but the bad guy actor in Evolution really really carried off the crazed madman role, and was seriously threatening, and Daniel sure as heck looked like this was a Serious Situation, and he was *scared*. I didn't see either Jack OR Sam act scared, intimidated, frightened -- or register any of much emotion at all. Except maybe some dazed looks and so on, and an "I'm so bored by these jokes of bad situations, I know I'll get out of it one way or another" aura.

So, you know I'm biased -- in most cases of season 7, with Sam esp in Peril, I just don't FEEL like she's in any danger -- and frankly, the perils of Pauline bore me most of the time anyhow. The best, most exciting shows in past seasons had a lot to do with, say, "Can SG-1 find a way off the Hell-planet before it gets blown up?" or, "Can SG-1 find a way to keep Apophis from destroying Earth under great odds?" You know what I mean? If the TEAM were in danger doing these things, or someone they knew was in danger while doing brave things, then THAT is where the tension is, the excitement, etc etc etc.

The big question of, "Will Sam get a snog and from who?" or "Is Jack ever going to let Sam talk about her feelings" or, "Is Daniel going to have a 100Days Romance" or "Is Teal'c getting married" type things...they're mildly interesting, but not the kind of stories I tune in for. Bleh.

[darklilac]

Well, I dunno, I think they could. See, Jack is so unresponsive, so "constipated", so unexpressive, uncomfortable and blank around Sam now that it's evident (even to him?) that she has "feelings" for him, I think they could save it. Just have Sam come right out, in Jack's office, and say to him that she was acting like a git to him.....

Well, first of all TPTB don't want to go back, don't want the two characters to go back.
So that's a huge obstacle.
Then I really don't think that having a confession from Sam saying she's sorry and will behave, even if it's a good explanation, would be enough.
She admitted she had feelings for Jack from the beginning(grace), she's in love with him and would throw her career out of the window if only he would give a sign to her(grace).
She slept with Pete, while being in love with Jack, and still trying to let him know about her feelings, all the while alienating herself and Jack from Daniel and Teal'c(lost city 1&2)
I don't see how she could ever be able to go back as a friend for Jack.

[KorbenDirewolf]

*cough* Sorry, that was a cliff-hanger?

Okay..Technically it was. Probably should have said season-ender.

[Gategrrl]

Originally Posted by Gategrrl
*cough* Sorry, that was a cliff-hanger?

Okay..Technically it was. Probably should have said season-ender.

Well, I was being a little silly/sarcastic/caustic there. I think TPTB meant it be an old-style cliffhanger, in the fashion of the older, better eps of Stargate (you know, like the ending between s1 & s2, or s2 & s3, etc). But this one...well, duh, the Jacksickle is going to be unfrozen in due course, and it's not like he hasn't got a Princess Leia chewing at the bit to get him out of that icey prison, etc etc. It was a season-ender, but a bad cliff-hanging season ender.

And wasn't that ending with Sam just so OTT? I mean really, like she's supposed to be in command, and Jack said he trusted her, and what does she do? Lose it. Accuse her teammates of wanting to leave Jack behind when they never intimated any such thing. Being an irrational chicky run by her love-hormones. Good think Jack was frozen. He didn't have to see her pitiful actions. Again (like in the Nox). Never saw Princess Leia act like Sam acted. If they're going to take the hommage all the way, then Sam should act as bravely as Leia did in Jabba's lair, etc etc.

[KorbenDirewolf]

Yep.. Need to work out storylines where the general idea of what happens next isn't apparent.

I for one, hated that ending. Or at least the way Carter was written for the ending. If that's how she's going to act, why is she getting command of SG-1 at all?

[darklilac]

spoilers








What about the upcoming AT interview where she talks about Pete being second best?
According to what she says Sam thinks Jack is fantastic and she will always be in love with him, but until she can't have him, she's staying(and sleeping) with Pete, because he's not that bad.
In that interview she also inted Sam and Jack will probably end up together in the end.
Sounds like the JS ship is here to stay, season 8 sounds very bad at the moment.