Tok'ra Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation thread

[BlueMushroom]

Hello everyone! I'm back from Christmas holidays - did everyone enjoy their time off (those that had any, that is)?

[Jalnor]

That's right, Stargate4Eva.
Good episodes to watch would be season 2, episode 2, "In the Line of Fire" and season 2, eps 11-12, "The Tok'ra." Tells you quite a lot about them.

Edit: Yeah, I had quite an interesting time... gradually getting through my cold, but an interesting time

[CaptJanson]

Christmas was fine - though I am happy it's back to normal days again

[MerryK]

Hello everyone! I'm back from Christmas holidays - did everyone enjoy their time off (those that had any, that is)?

My time off was...well, not so much time off, just time spent doing different duties. But it wasn't bad.

[Jalnor]

By the way, the Jack&Kanan story (just finished) was totally epic.

[Skadi]

Hello everyone! I'm back from Christmas holidays - did everyone enjoy their time off (those that had any, that is)?

Welcome back

I didn't celebrate much - but it was nice to have a couple days off from work to do other things

[GeneralSelmak]

Spoiler:

This is somewhat off topic.

During the show, it appears as if the majority of the human cultures they come across are derived from cultures around the Mediterranean - Egyptian, Roman, Greek,...etc. Which makes a lot of sense, since that was where the Goa'uld had settled and presumably took most hosts and slaves from.
There also wasn't much of a culture in areas such as where I am from, in Scandianavia (it is another discussion whether or not humans had any culture/technology/language before or if we got it all from the Goa'uld. The start of many civilizations does seem to coincide with the Goa'uld arriving/being here (Ra arrived 10000 years ago), and according to mythology, Thoth is given as inventor of almost anything and everything).

What I thought about was that if the Goa'uld left Earth sometime around 5000 years ago? Or at least Earth rebelled and Ra left, perhaps others didn't? Because SG-1 have come across several planets with cultures that have obviously been removed much later (the Mongols in 'Emancipation', the at least two Christian cultures they come across, one which seems Medieval, and another that is late Renaissance, and I think others.)

There are also Tok'ra hosts which are clearly not from the area around the Mediterranean (Martouf, Rosha, etc.) and they must be from cultures the Goa'uld had put on some planet.

Thus, either some Goa'uld were hanging around on Earth for much longer than when Ra left, or they made periodic raiding parties for slaves/hosts.
Perhaps Earth was still considered Ra's planet, but he didn't want to bother with it, and thus sold 'hunting rights' for whomever wanted the excitement? Maybe it was considered fashionable or exotic to own slaves from Ra's planet, where humans were first found?

Another thing I thought of was that Apophis's host was a scribe at the Temple of Amun at Karnak. ("Serpent's Song") - which was built around the time of the 18th Dynasty (1550-1292 BC) but had further constructions done to it over more than a thousand years. It was last used in 356 AD, when it was closed by Christians. However, since the Goa'uld was thrown out of at least Egypt about 5000 years ago, Apophis must have taken the scribe shortly after that (Ra was his enemy, and Amun is another incarnation of Ra), or perhaps he came back there and got a host (from the good old tried and true place) much later?
That would explain some things, because if you look at the time line in Evolution I & II (the episode where they find the Telchak device/precursor to sarcophagus), we learn that he lived and was considered a God among the early Mayans around 900 BC, when he was killed by Anubis after having invented the sarcophagus (because Anubis wanted the device he had used to construct the sarcophagus).

So the sarcophagus was invented less than 3000 years ago - wouldn't do to have Apophis having had the same host for more than 2000 years before that! So presumably he went back to Egypt and shopped for one at a later time.

These rambling got a bit longer than intended, but I guess I just wanted to say that I thought there were some things that didn't make sense - but that would hardly be the first time.

So - do you think the Goa'uld sent hunting parties back to Earth regualrly over the millennia, to get new slaves and hosts?

Just rewatched the episode and I would have to agree - while it is not said explicitly when the sarcophagus was invented, it is clear that it can't be much more than 3000 years ago. We know from another episode that Ra arrived on Earth 10000 years ago, so he lived at least 7000 years without using a sarcophagus. Presumably by changing hosts every 400 years as Jacob says they can in 'Seth'.

However, they seem to hint in 'Threads' that Selmak died of old age at 2000 years! That simply cannot make sense! Either Selmak was many thousands of years older and didn't count those years because she was Goa'uld then and considered it a 'rebirth' when she turned Tok'ra - or she died of some disease - or perhaps she was murdered by those on the council that disagreed with her, like Delek?

I remember from watching Tok'ra I&II that she expected to live more than a century more, just with Jacob.

[CaptJanson]

You're forgetting the most likely explanation - the writers screwed up!

[Skadi]

Just rewatched the episode and I would have to agree - while it is not said explicitly when the sarcophagus was invented, it is clear that it can't be much more than 3000 years ago. We know from another episode that Ra arrived on Earth 10000 years ago, so he lived at least 7000 years without using a sarcophagus. Presumably by changing hosts every 400 years as Jacob says they can in 'Seth'.

However, they seem to hint in 'Threads' that Selmak died of old age at 2000 years! That simply cannot make sense! Either Selmak was many thousands of years older and didn't count those years because she was Goa'uld then and considered it a 'rebirth' when she turned Tok'ra - or she died of some disease - or perhaps she was murdered by those on the council that disagreed with her, like Delek?

I remember from watching Tok'ra I&II that she expected to live more than a century more, just with Jacob.

The idea that she was older than 2000 years and considered turning Tok'ra a rebirth is actually not a bad theory.

However, they don't actually say that she is dying from old age - Jacob only says she is not sorry about dying because she feels her life has been full. I think people have merely assumed that was what he meant. Presumably she was either sick as you suggest (even symbiotes must have some limit to what they can cure), or external factors were the cause, like poison or something else she had been exposed to. It's not the Dakara weapon, though, as Jacob said she had been sick before that.

[Skadi]

Did I post these links?

Daniel/Anise/Freya

A Perfect Mate. Drabble. Anise/Freya thinks about the perfect mate. Anise/Freya/Daniel. PG13
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2333208/1/A_Perfect_Mate


Multiple pairings

Changes. SG-1 and the Tok'ra examine some ruins and comes across something which may change their lives. PG-13. Sam/Martouf/Lantash preship. Daniel/Anise/Freya preship.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4010705/1/Changes

PRESHIP, Goa'uld:

New Eden. Klorel and Skaara both want the same woman. Confusing and (IMHO) not very good. PG
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/880846/1/New_Eden

OTHER (mostly Sam after D&C, but a few others as well):

Not so good:

Samantha. Missing scene D&C/Sam's thoughts when she kills Martouf. PG13
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/451170/1/Samantha

Moment in Time. Martouf's thoughts at the end of D&C. PG13
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/580487/1/Moment_in_Time

Samantha. Martouf thinks about Samantha. G
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/896449/1/Samantha

OK:

Someone Else's Prayer. None of them are who the other needs. PG-13 Deathfic
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3208164/...e_Elses_Prayer

Mourning After. Sam wrestles with her grief and guilt for having killed Martouf in Divide and Conquer, and finds support from Daniel. This was written long before Summit and Last Stand, where we finally got some closure on Martouf and Sam. PG-13
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3626014/1/Mourning_After

Resolutions. A tag to Divide and Conquer. PG
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4444679/1/Resolutions

[Hathor_girl]

The idea that she was older than 2000 years and considered turning Tok'ra a rebirth is actually not a bad theory.

However, they don't actually say that she is dying from old age - Jacob only says she is not sorry about dying because she feels her life has been full. I think people have merely assumed that was what he meant. Presumably she was either sick as you suggest (even symbiotes must have some limit to what they can cure), or external factors were the cause, like poison or something else she had been exposed to. It's not the Dakara weapon, though, as Jacob said she had been sick before that.

You're right. I went and rewatched the episode (*cries* it's one of my hated episodes *snif*) and they don't say it's because she is old. I think people are merely interpreting what Jacob says that way. I think she was poisoned by the nasty Delek!

[Hathor_girl]

Did I post these links?

Daniel/Anise/Freya

A Perfect Mate. Drabble. Anise/Freya thinks about the perfect mate. Anise/Freya/Daniel. PG13
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2333208/1/A_Perfect_Mate


Multiple pairings

Changes. SG-1 and the Tok'ra examine some ruins and comes across something which may change their lives. PG-13. Sam/Martouf/Lantash preship. Daniel/Anise/Freya preship.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4010705/1/Changes

PRESHIP, Goa'uld:

New Eden. Klorel and Skaara both want the same woman. Confusing and (IMHO) not very good. PG
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/880846/1/New_Eden

OTHER (mostly Sam after D&C, but a few others as well):

Not so good:

Samantha. Missing scene D&C/Sam's thoughts when she kills Martouf. PG13
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/451170/1/Samantha

Moment in Time. Martouf's thoughts at the end of D&C. PG13
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/580487/1/Moment_in_Time

Samantha. Martouf thinks about Samantha. G
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/896449/1/Samantha

OK:

Someone Else's Prayer. None of them are who the other needs. PG-13 Deathfic
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3208164/...e_Elses_Prayer

Mourning After. Sam wrestles with her grief and guilt for having killed Martouf in Divide and Conquer, and finds support from Daniel. This was written long before Summit and Last Stand, where we finally got some closure on Martouf and Sam. PG-13
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3626014/1/Mourning_After

Resolutions. A tag to Divide and Conquer. PG
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4444679/1/Resolutions

Don't think so - *cries* I can't handle deathfics right now

[Hathor_girl]

YAY! We passed 1000 posts in the thread! Go us!

LONG LIVE THE TOK'RA !!!!

[GeneralSelmak]

Yes! *hugs everyone*

[Jalnor]

This is a day to celebrate! *Breaks out the Grolsch* It's also nearly New Year