Tok'ra Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation thread

[RogueDragon]

I apologize, I've been really busy lately.
BTW, pictures I have (time, not so much, but I'm trying) I hope to more adequetly read through this thread and offer what I can, just not tonight, WAY past my bedtime

1. Rumor has circulated that there is a Goa'uld Spy in your ranks. You are more likely to...

Dr. Raleigh: Say and do nothing. We are in no position to act on rumors.

2. News has come that SG1 is in trouble at the same time as there is a Goa'uld meeting. Simultaneously there is an innocent planet in line for destruction... you can only do one, which do you choose?

Dr. Raleigh: We have already infiltrated the Goa’uld meeting and are working to buy some time for SG-1 while there. We hope someone else is working on the planet, because we are in no position to.

3.You go to the SGC with intel about a new Goa'uld weapon that must be destroyed. Once there you...

Dr. Raleigh: Briefly reminisce and exchange pleasantries before getting to business.

4.You would define the relationship between the symbiote and the host as...
Dr. Raleigh: We make a good team.

5.Which hobbies/interests do you have?

Dr. Raleigh: A good game of sports once in a while.

6.How do you feel about the Tau'ri?

Dr. Raleigh: They are impressively strong and intelligent, I hope to work with them again.

7.If the tunnels were being attacked by the Goa'uld and you needed to evacuate NOW - what/who would you save first?

Dr. Raleigh: I shall try to assist where I would be most beneficial.

8.If you could take some time off from fighting the Goa'uld, were would you go and what would you do?

Dr. Raleigh: We’d love to spend some quality time with friends and fellow Tok’ra.

9.What are you looking for in a mate?

Dr. Raleigh: I’m not looking. I don’t have the time for a relationship.

10.Assume that you are on a mission with the Tau'ri. You are all standing in a dark room, when you hear a strange noise, what do you do?
Dr. Raleigh: Whisper “Ha’re Kree!”

11. You are on a mission with SG-1 and in order to get away safely, a technical problem needs to be solved...Samantha Carter is looking to you for scientific insights. What is your answer?

Dr. Raleigh: Explain what I know about the technology and reassure that she’ll probably easily figure it out.

12. Would you rather follow orders or make them?

Dr. Raleigh: Both. Whichever best keeps my cover.

13. You meet someone who repeatedly called you a snakehead a year ago and never apologized. How do you react to them now?

Dr. Raleigh: I was undercover as their adversary before, of course I forgive him or her now.

14. If you were in a situation where you desperately needed a host (you have important information for the Tok'ra), and no willing host was immediately available, but a potential host is close enough for you to grab. What would you do?

Dr. Raleigh: I will take the host, but they deserve to have the situation explained to them and I will encourage him or her to be strong.

15. What would you consider to be perfect entertainment?

Dr. Raleigh: Goa’uld Smackdown!

16. How would you like to spend a date with a potential mate?

Dr. Raleigh: Anywhere to take my mind off of work.

17. How do you look on relationship commitment?

Dr. Raleigh: The nature of the job does not allow for it.


18. You have been a loyal Tok'ra up until now. A Goa'uld system lord shows up and offers you a small planet, thousands of slaves, and rich naquadah mines if you will just betray the Tok'ra. What is your answer?

Dr. Raleigh: “Kree shak shel nok!”


19. What do you think about the Tau'ri alliance?

Dr. Raleigh: They are dutiful allies that have earned our respect.


20. What do you think about the Jaffa alliance?

Dr. Raleigh: I hope to one day see them living in freedom, peace, and harmony.

21. In what situations would your host or your symbiote be most likely to do all the talking?

Dr. Raleigh: It depends on the assignment. If we’re pretending to be jaffa, I’m good at authority while my host is better at keeping us in our place.

[RogueDragon]

How about this for Kanan?



it's a promo, and he looks more sure about himself than Jack was in the ep...

[RogueDragon]

Dr. Raliegh

Spoiler:

(As a Future Doctor)




(As a Tok'ra)




(As a Jaffa)

Sina

Spoiler:

[nebulan]

21. In what situations would your host or your symbiote be most likely to do all the talking?

Dr. Raleigh: It depends on the assignment. If we’re pretending to be jaffa, I’m good at authority while my host is better at keeping us in our place.

They sound good! This one is iffy since I think she's the only one on the list who posed as a Jaffa. I know there's another Tok'ra as a jaffa in Serpet's Venom but he didn't make it to our list

For Kanan, I'd prefer the worm, lol!

[RogueDragon]

They sound good! This one is iffy since I think she's the only one on the list who posed as a Jaffa. I know there's another Tok'ra as a jaffa in Serpet's Venom but he didn't make it to our list

For Kanan, I'd prefer the worm, lol!

Fine, how about "It depends on the assignment. I’m good at authority while my host is better at keeping us in our place." ??

[Skadi]

Fine, how about "It depends on the assignment. I’m good at authority while my host is better at keeping us in our place." ??

That sounds much better! Otherwise I really like the answers for Dr. Raleigh. I think I like the second to last picture of her as a Tok'ra, best. For Sina, I think the third picture is best.

Regarding Kanan-pictures; yes, the Jack/Kanan promo one is very good, and maybe we should use that, but I think I prefer the "un-hosted" ones

-Skadi

[CaptJanson]

I like the Kanan/Jack picture. He may only have been a temporary Tok'ra, but I think that everyone should be considered Tok'ra if they are host to a Tok'ra symbiote, even if only temporarily - even if only for a few hours. They're still Tok'ra!

Yes, I know that disqualifies Tanith, but I think we should include him for the fun of it. Besides, his HOST is Tok'ra Wanted to be, at any rate.

[RogueDragon]

Gah! I wanted to get Ta'seem done today, but Nebulan got a flat tire! Hoping she gets home and to work tomorrow with no problems.

[Snotr]

It's quiet here. Skadi, did you find a quiz-engine somewhere?

It's been a while since there was any Tok'ra discussions here except for the quiz - I have something I thought of, don't remember if it's been talked about before.

How do you think the symbiote queens appear? We have seen very few of them.

Are they just born as a low percentage of the total numbers, say 1 for every 10000 ordinary ones? Can the queen control when one is to be born? Is it environmental effects? Are there really many of them but most work hard for some System Lord? Are most killed because of the competition and they hate each other even more than the ordinary Goa'uld symbiotes?

What do you think guys?

-Snotr

[MerryK]

Queens, eh... I'd guess that they were made like queen bees, through special environment and food, but that would seem too simple considering the attention given to them. Perhaps a queen has to put all the energy she would have put into a whole litter of symbiotes into one queen symbiote.

I have another question—Martouf seemed shocked that Jolinar took Sam without permission even if she thought it was necessary. From what we've seen of the Tok'ra later, however, they often make choices for the good of all/the cause, rather than care about individuals. On the other hand, their highest law is willing hosts. So was Jolinar typical Tok'ra, and Martouf is just more sensitive? Or was Martouf's reaction typical, and Jolinar was a rebel?

[CaptJanson]

Queens, eh... I'd guess that they were made like queen bees, through special environment and food, but that would seem too simple considering the attention given to them. Perhaps a queen has to put all the energy she would have put into a whole litter of symbiotes into one queen symbiote.

I have another question—Martouf seemed shocked that Jolinar took Sam without permission even if she thought it was necessary. From what we've seen of the Tok'ra later, however, they often make choices for the good of all/the cause, rather than care about individuals. On the other hand, their highest law is willing hosts. So was Jolinar typical Tok'ra, and Martouf is just more sensitive? Or was Martouf's reaction typical, and Jolinar was a rebel?

Regarding the queens...hmmm. Special environment and such might make sense. There are vertebrates that does that also, not just insects. I think most reptiles, and many amphibians control the gender that way - what type of vertebrates are symbiotes supposed to be? Reptiles? Fish? Mammals?

The stuff about only taking willing hosts - it seemed like it really WAS their highest law and normally something they would never do - Martouf is not the only one saying that, so did Garshaw. They all seemed shocked, though Martouf more so - perhaps because he was already shocked by the news of his mates death or because it was her breaking their law. Of course, there would from time to time be situations where the cause/the good of the many weighted stronger than the individual.

In reality I sorta think it was supposed to be something really unusual and bad Jolinar had done and the other Tok'ra would never do it - then in later seasons as the Tok'ra became more Goa'uld-ish the writers more or less dropped this difference along with the host talking - going all the way to semi-Goa'uld-Delek.

As an aside - many fanfic I have read have Jolinar having been a System Lord (perhaps because of the mentioning of her armies that Teal'c did) - so maybe she went back to her Goa'uld ways when she panicked?

[Snotr]

Regarding the queens...hmmm. Special environment and such might make sense. There are vertebrates that does that also, not just insects. I think most reptiles, and many amphibians control the gender that way - what type of vertebrates are symbiotes supposed to be? Reptiles? Fish? Mammals?

The stuff about only taking willing hosts - it seemed like it really WAS their highest law and normally something they would never do - Martouf is not the only one saying that, so did Garshaw. They all seemed shocked, though Martouf more so - perhaps because he was already shocked by the news of his mates death or because it was her breaking their law. Of course, there would from time to time be situations where the cause/the good of the many weighted stronger than the individual.

In reality I sorta think it was supposed to be something really unusual and bad Jolinar had done and the other Tok'ra would never do it - then in later seasons as the Tok'ra became more Goa'uld-ish the writers more or less dropped this difference along with the host talking - going all the way to semi-Goa'uld-Delek.

As an aside - many fanfic I have read have Jolinar having been a System Lord (perhaps because of the mentioning of her armies that Teal'c did) - so maybe she went back to her Goa'uld ways when she panicked?

I don't think we have been told directly what they are - the fact that O'Neill calls them "snakes" means nothing - it is merely a deregorative that he has invented because of their shape. It is in no way different from the various racist terms that has been used for various humans by any number of chauvanists over the years - and says as little about who and what they are.

The only possible clue is this:

Spoiler:

GARSHAW: You are not and I have told you we are not Goa'uld.
JACK: I didn't... Why do you talk like that? And what's with the glowing eyes? Huh? Might it have something to do with a little reptilian activity in your heads?
GARSHAW: We have symbiotic creatures within us, yes.
JACK: Well then!
DANIEL: Well then, you can see how we might think you would be a danger to humans. You take humans as hosts.
GARSHAW: Goa'uld take hosts. Tok'ra do not. Ours wish to be so.
MARTOUF: We have a truly symbiotic relationship.
DANIEL: No offence, but why would any human volunteer to be a host for a Goa'uld?
YOSUF: Perhaps I can... I can help you? I am Yosuuf. I am Garshaw's host. I speak freely without restraint or censor. All of us who serve as hosts volunteer to do so freely.
DANIEL: Okay, well, maybe you can answer my question then. Why would any human volunteer for... for that?
YOSUF: Well, with the blending I gain all of Garshaw's knowledge, her wisdom [Laughs] more than any human could ever attain...

Though the fact that Garshaw doesn't correct him could also be because she doesn't bother, having already decided the Tau'ri are primitive and not educated enough to understand. Gaarshaw also says "We have symbiotic creatures within us" - which I guess could be construed as true as they share the host body and
she (the symbiote) thus also considers it her body - thus she has a symbiotic creature (herself) inside "her". OK, confusing

On the other subject - about the willing hosts - Garshaw confirms the Tok'ra hosts wish to be hosts and has all volunteered. This seems to be in line with what Martouf says, so Jolinar may be an exception - or as you say, she had extremely valuable information, perhaps about the spy Cordesh in their ranks? - or she simply panicked, which you can't really blame her. I guess most people would in her situation.

-Snotr

[RogueDragon]

Ta'seem!
Sorry I've been busy!

fudged a few *shrugs*

(You think most people would realize that there’s only one major Tok’ra ever involved in the Ori scene?)

1. Rumor has circulated that there is a Goa'uld Spy in your ranks. You are more likely to...
Ta’seem: Mutter: “What’s Ba’al up to now?!”

2. News has come that SG1 is in trouble at the same time as there is a Goa'uld meeting. Simultaneously there is an innocent planet in line for destruction... you can only do one, which do you choose?
Ta’seem: If there’s something I can do for the planet, that’s definitely where I’ll be!

3. You go to the SGC with intel about a new Goa'uld weapon that must be destroyed. Once there you...
Ta’seem: Realize that I don’t understand a word of this technobabble and have one of my companions do the explaining.

4. You would define the relationship between the symbiote and the host as...
Ta’seem: A strong sense of respect. What our hosts willing give to is far more than we symbiotes could ever give back.

5. Which hobbies/interests do you have?
Ta’seem: When I get time I’ve dabbled in cooking some.

6. How do you feel about the Tau'ri?
Ta’seem: Eh, they’re okay.

7. If the tunnels were being attacked by the Goa'uld and you needed to evacuate NOW - what/who would you save first?
Ta’seem: I would make sure help is given to anyone who would be injured, weak, or host-less.

8. If you could take some time off from fighting the Goa'uld, were would you go and what would you do?
Ta’seem: Work on fixing the other problems in our galaxy.

9. What are you looking for in a mate?
Ta’seem: Someone to be a welcoming face to come home to.

10. Assume that you are on a mission with the Tau'ri. You are all standing in a dark room, when you hear a strange noise, what do you do?
Ta’seem: Start paying attention.

11. You are on a mission with SG-1 and in order to get away safely, a technical problem needs to be solved...Samantha Carter is looking to you for scientific insights. What is your answer?
Ta’seem: “I’m a doctor, not a technical assistant!”

12. Would you rather follow orders or make them?
Ta’seem: I do what needs to be done.

13. You meet someone who repeatedly called you a snakehead a year ago and never apologized. How do you react to them now?
Ta’seem: Grit my teeth; quietly, of course.

14. If you were in a situation where you desperately needed a host (you have important information for the Tok'ra), and no willing host was immediately available, but a potential host is close enough for you to grab. What would you do?
Ta’seem: Lay down and die. Our principles are our greatest treasure.

15. What would you consider to be perfect entertainment?
Ta’seem: “M*A*S*H”

16. How would you like to spend a date with a potential mate?
Ta’seem: Show them my stuffed Goa’uld collection!

17. How do you look on relationship commitment?
Ta’seem: Meh.

18. You have been a loyal Tok'ra up until now. A Goa'uld system lord shows up and offers you a small planet, thousands of slaves, and rich naquadah mines if you will just betray the Tok'ra. What is your answer?
Ta’seem: This is a joke, right?

19. What do you think about the Tau'ri alliance?
Ta’seem: All we know is how to fight Goa’uld; the Tau’ri’s creativity is vital with new and strange enemies.

20. What do you think about the Jaffa alliance?
Ta’seem: Hopefully we will all live free, and I hope the Jaffa will figure

21. In what situations would your host or your symbiote be most likely to do all the talking?
Ta’seem: My host takes a backseat when I need to focus and when on official business. Even then, however, my host is helpful for keeping me from saying anything that might be taken as offensive.

[Skadi]

I love your answer for number 11

11. You are on a mission with SG-1 and in order to get away safely, a technical problem needs to be solved...Samantha Carter is looking to you for scientific insights. What is your answer?
Ta’seem: “I’m a doctor, not a technical assistant!”

Reminds me of McCoy from Star Trek

-Skadi

[RogueDragon]

I wrote up this how deep thing about Tok'ra to add to the Sam/Jolinar, Jack/Kanan, and Tanith/Hebron thing. I'm going to remove a lot, though it's refined, it's probably not wanted.

Summing it up:

To be a Tok'ra is to be a descendant of Egeria who chooses to live her values, ot you have your loyalties to the descendants of Egeria and their cause.

Tanith would have been a Tok’ra if he had been like Shaun’auc had hoped, instead he just thought he was pretending to be a Tok’ra for nearly a year. I think it’s fun to keep him in.

As for Sam, it seems to be a matter of opinion that would require an AU.

As for me, if Jolinar hadn’t died, I am certain that she would NOT have joined the Tok’ra. Sure I think she’d come and visit along with Martouf (who wouldn’t want to go visit him) and her Dad. But no, Sam and Jack's commitment is to the SGC. Otherwise, at least one of them would have left the SGC long ago gotten married long ago. But they are as committed to Earth's Stargate Program as two people can get.