Tok'ra Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation thread

[Sparky She-Demon]

Yes, but if both parents are hosts, the children will be harcesis - which the Tok'ra may or may not be against - the Goa'uld forbids them.
I suppose a child with Tok'ra genetic memory could be a danger, if the Goa'uld captured it, since they might get Tok'ra secrets that way. It may also be dangerous for a child to grow up in the tunnels, with risk of attacks.

Of course, the secrets would not be 'recent' and the Goa'uld are less of a risk now, so the Tok'ra may not care.

So, yes, they can have children, but the children get the symbiotes genetic memory.

Interesting. I'd love to read fics with this stuff in it. Know any good ones? Also what the heck is harcesis?

[Hathor_girl]

Interesting. I'd love to read fics with this stuff in it. Know any good ones? Also what the heck is harcesis?

A harcesis is the child of two hosts. Or, more correctly, the child of two host/symbiote pairs, as the kid gets DNA from the symbiotes as well.

A harcesis (show example, Shifu, son of Sha're/Amaunet and Apophis), get the genetic memory of both symbiotes. According to Goa'uld myth, it gets "all the knowledge of the Goa'uld", but that is myth - it can't get DNA from anyone not involved. Apophis seemed to believe it, though. Shifu looks nothing like either Sha're or Apophis's host, so many people explain that by saying he got that from Apophis and Amaunet. If the kid can get any DNA from the symbiote (which it can = genetic memory is inherited through DNA), then it's not unlikely it can get DNA for other things too.

Anyway, I think I have read about a handful of fics that had Tok'ra harcesis in them, or which discussed the problematic of it. The child would know what the symbiotes knew at the time of conception, so could be a security risk.

Also, Goa'uld genetic memory is partially what makes the Goa'uld evil and insane, so a "human" (hybrid) child would probably be evil and insane too. Of course, Tok'ra are neither evil, nor insane, so a child from them would probably be okay.

[Hathor_girl]

Fanfic with Tok'ra harcesis. Hmmm...

I remember reading a fic where Martouf/Lantash had a child with someone (maybe Rosha/Jolinar), and he (the child) was harcesis, and also a wizard of some kind? The story was not completed, and I don't have the link right now. Or the title. Or the name of the writer. Will look for it - I think I have it on my harddisk, somewhere.

There is a fic by Es Charmed, called "Pain and Sorrow", which has Sam being pregnant with Martouf/Lantash's child. That's not a harcesis, but there is some discussion/worry from the Tok'ra, that it will be a security risk. The fic is R rated, so here is a link to the author's page: http://tokra.fandomnet.com/viewuser.php?uid=52

There is a fic called Hope for the future about a child of Sam and Martouf/Lantash (and somehow it got genetic memory from Jolinar too, and is thus harcesis). It's set after Divide and Conquer, so Martouf/Lantash are dead.

Another Sam and Martouf/Lantash kid, and Martouf is dead (after Divide and Conquer). It's on Fanfiction.net, and I don't remember title/writer right now. Will check. Kid has genetic memory.

The Return to Setona - features the children (and grandchildren) of Martouf/Lantash and Rosha/Jolinar. They are harcesis'es. One is taken as host by a Goa'uld, but his Tok'ra genetic memory converts the Goa'uld. Pretty good story, actually, with a lot of discussion about harcesis'es. It is Sam/Martouf/Lantash shippy. It is also NC-17, so link to author's page here: http://tokra.fandomnet.com/viewuser.php?uid=15

[Sparky She-Demon]

Thank you, I'll have to read those fics!

[Hathor_girl]

I remembered the name of the first one I mentioned - it's called "Following the Sorcerer", and it's followed by an incomplete sequel called "Carved in Stone".

Following the Sorcerer: http://zarah.orconhosting.net.nz/sta...eta_isis1.html
Carved in Stone (seems to be called Written in Stone on this page): http://zarah.orconhosting.net.nz/sta...ta_stone1.html

They are written by Bree, and this is the link to her stories (she has a few others):

http://zarah.orconhosting.net.nz/stargate/index2.html

[Sparky She-Demon]

I've been reading some of your fics on ffn.net Hathor_girl! I'm Sparky She-Demon there as well!

[Hathor_girl]

I found a Stargate/Tok'ra Christmas calendar! It's on fanfiction.net and on the writer's webpage.

Rascals III by Roeskva (PG-13)
The continued adventures of Sam, Martouf, Lantash, Freya, Anise, and Daniel, after they have been turned into children. Sequel to Rascals and Rascals II. It is NOT necessary to read the earlier installments! Gen, but a few pairings are mentioned briefly. Kidfic. Humour.


Fanfiction.net: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8753802/1/Rascals-III
Writer's website: http://www.tokra.dk/julekalender2012/julekalender.html

[Hathor_girl]

Also found this, in the tokrafans.livejournal.com community:

Tok'ra challenge - fic and artwork
We are going to do a challenge for Tok'ra fic and artwork!

The idea was to have people sign up to post stuff on certain days - if we get enough people, we could post something every day for a week, or a month, or whatever. We will see how many are interested

To pick a time period, and to give people time to sign up, I suggest first day of posting to be February 21st - I believe that is the day when summer traditionally began in Ancient Egypt (shomu, I think), and given lack of any other knowledge of Tok'ra or Goa'uld time keeping, I guess using Ancient Egypt as base, works?

The challenge would be for both fic and artwork, any rating and genre.

We could do a challenge based on themes, perhaps? Or specific episodes? Here are some suggestions. VOTE! Regardless of whether you want to take part in the challenge or not. Voting carries no obligations. There is an option at the end, if you have other ideas or suggestions for the challenge. Use it!

Link to poll here: http://tokrafans.livejournal.com/35765.html

You don't need a LJ account to read or vote.

[RingThing]

Also found this, in the tokrafans.livejournal.com community:



Link to poll here: http://tokrafans.livejournal.com/35765.html

You don't need a LJ account to read or vote.

Yes you do, b/c I don't understand the openid stuff Roska posted about on the mailinslist

[Sparky She-Demon]

Just out of curiousity, how old is Lantash?

[Skadi]

Just out of curiousity, how old is Lantash?

We don't know the age of any of the Tok'ra, except Selmak (she is approximately 2000 years old). Of course, we also know that Egeria is more than 2000 years old, since Anise says Egeria started the Tok'ra around 2000 years ago.

Further, we know that Selmak is the oldest of the Tok'ra (but probably born by Egeria, unless she was one of those who was originally Goa'uld, like Egeria - and according to most people, Jolinar and Garshaw were also originally Goa'uld).

Almost all the Tok'ra were born Tok'ra, by Egeria, so almost all the Tok'ra would have been born sometime during those 2000 years the Tok'ra have existed. Probably in clutches spanning many centuries or more. We don't know when Egeria was captured and put in that stasis jar, where the Pangarans found her.

Fanfic authors speculate on the ages of the various Tok'ra, and on when Egeria was placed in the stasis jar. I know Roeskva and Hathor_girl has Lantash being fairly young (explaining his fiery temper etc. somewhat with his youth). I think Roeskva assumes he is maybe 570-580 years old, and in Egeria's last clutch, before she was captured.

[Skadi]

I found a Stargate/Tok'ra Christmas calendar! It's on fanfiction.net and on the writer's webpage.

Rascals III by Roeskva (PG-13)
The continued adventures of Sam, Martouf, Lantash, Freya, Anise, and Daniel, after they have been turned into children. Sequel to Rascals and Rascals II. It is NOT necessary to read the earlier installments! Gen, but a few pairings are mentioned briefly. Kidfic. Humour.


Fanfiction.net: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8753802/1/Rascals-III
Writer's website: http://www.tokra.dk/julekalender2012/julekalender.html

I've been reading it! I like it, even if I don't usually read kidfic.

As for the age of the symbiotes... in this one Anise and Lantash are 4-5 years old, after having been de-aged with their hosts! Lol.

[Skadi]

Fanfic with Tok'ra harcesis. Hmmm...

I remember reading a fic where Martouf/Lantash had a child with someone (maybe Rosha/Jolinar), and he (the child) was harcesis, and also a wizard of some kind? The story was not completed, and I don't have the link right now. Or the title. Or the name of the writer. Will look for it - I think I have it on my harddisk, somewhere.

There is a fic by Es Charmed, called "Pain and Sorrow", which has Sam being pregnant with Martouf/Lantash's child. That's not a harcesis, but there is some discussion/worry from the Tok'ra, that it will be a security risk. The fic is R rated, so here is a link to the author's page: http://tokra.fandomnet.com/viewuser.php?uid=52

There is a fic called Hope for the future about a child of Sam and Martouf/Lantash (and somehow it got genetic memory from Jolinar too, and is thus harcesis). It's set after Divide and Conquer, so Martouf/Lantash are dead.

Another Sam and Martouf/Lantash kid, and Martouf is dead (after Divide and Conquer). It's on Fanfiction.net, and I don't remember title/writer right now. Will check. Kid has genetic memory.

The Return to Setona - features the children (and grandchildren) of Martouf/Lantash and Rosha/Jolinar. They are harcesis'es. One is taken as host by a Goa'uld, but his Tok'ra genetic memory converts the Goa'uld. Pretty good story, actually, with a lot of discussion about harcesis'es. It is Sam/Martouf/Lantash shippy. It is also NC-17, so link to author's page here: http://tokra.fandomnet.com/viewuser.php?uid=15

Thank you for posting these links!

[Hathor_girl]

We don't know the age of any of the Tok'ra, except Selmak (she is approximately 2000 years old). Of course, we also know that Egeria is more than 2000 years old, since Anise says Egeria started the Tok'ra around 2000 years ago.

Further, we know that Selmak is the oldest of the Tok'ra (but probably born by Egeria, unless she was one of those who was originally Goa'uld, like Egeria - and according to most people, Jolinar and Garshaw were also originally Goa'uld).

Almost all the Tok'ra were born Tok'ra, by Egeria, so almost all the Tok'ra would have been born sometime during those 2000 years the Tok'ra have existed. Probably in clutches spanning many centuries or more. We don't know when Egeria was captured and put in that stasis jar, where the Pangarans found her.

Fanfic authors speculate on the ages of the various Tok'ra, and on when Egeria was placed in the stasis jar. I know Roeskva and Hathor_girl has Lantash being fairly young (explaining his fiery temper etc. somewhat with his youth). I think Roeskva assumes he is maybe 570-580 years old, and in Egeria's last clutch, before she was captured.

Very true, about the canon age of the Tok'ra.

As for why Roeskva and I (and several others) are considering Lantash to be young (for a symbiote)? We discussed it, and yeah, it is partially because of his temper, but mostly because when you watch the episodes, it appears as if the Tok'ra gain position based on age (mostly, at least). You have:

The Council
The Base Commanders
Various higher positions on the bases, like security chief
Operatives (though it seems at least some of the Council members like to do this part too)
Scientists
Diplomats
Liaisons
Guards (also something all seems to do? Or was Council member Cordesh there in Tok'ra I because they had called a leader when the MALP came through some hours earlier?)
Various other regular positions on the bases - runners, cooks, etc.


It's unknown how any but the first three are ranked, though possibly operatives is fairly high?

The rest would probably be 'regular' work for the Tok'ra. Martouf/Lantash does a great many things - guard, messenger to the Tau'ri, runner for the Council, participates in Tau'ri missions... none of which seems 'high' positions. I mean, runner for the Council? That has got to be a fairly low position. So, that made us put Lantash as among the young Tok'ra, who has not yet gained a high position.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Very true, about the canon age of the Tok'ra.

As for why Roeskva and I (and several others) are considering Lantash to be young (for a symbiote)? We discussed it, and yeah, it is partially because of his temper, but mostly because when you watch the episodes, it appears as if the Tok'ra gain position based on age (mostly, at least). You have:

The Council
The Base Commanders
Various higher positions on the bases, like security chief
Operatives (though it seems at least some of the Council members like to do this part too)
Scientists
Diplomats
Liaisons
Guards (also something all seems to do? Or was Council member Cordesh there in Tok'ra I because they had called a leader when the MALP came through some hours earlier?)
Various other regular positions on the bases - runners, cooks, etc.


It's unknown how any but the first three are ranked, though possibly operatives is fairly high?

The rest would probably be 'regular' work for the Tok'ra. Martouf/Lantash does a great many things - guard, messenger to the Tau'ri, runner for the Council, participates in Tau'ri missions... none of which seems 'high' positions. I mean, runner for the Council? That has got to be a fairly low position. So, that made us put Lantash as among the young Tok'ra, who has not yet gained a high position.

There are probably a few other factors other than Lantash's "youth" that may have to do with his lower rank. Lantash is a quite a hothead, maybe that has something to do with it?