Daniel Jackson Discussion and Appreciation

[Dana_Jeanne]

Won't that just lead to more 'violence' episodes?

LOL. well... um... they do have ... I'm so not going there, Blingie!!!!!

Deej

[Tucker Case]

I looked the word up in my Thesaurus. WRONG word!

It's making me nuts that I can't put my finger on the right word. Some happy medium between resigning himself to military methods and embracing them. Or, to narrow it down some more, between carving a niche for himself in the military setting and bending it to his will.

Icon for example, Jack lets him go back. Ummm... Endgame-- I got the feeling Daniel was going after Sam regardless of what Jack said!

Yeah, I don't think there was any stopping him. He was determined, he had his insane plan at the ready and the only thing Jack could do was make a show of approval so it at least looked like he had any say in the matter.

With all the new things they're supposed to be discovering it should be heaven for Daniel and his archeaology gene!

You would think so. I certainly hope so.

I am very encouraged by the spoilers we've had so far, the way

Spoiler:

Daniel has once again been thrown into a truly extraordinary situation in 'Origin,' the way he's speaking up for Vala in 'The Powers That Be' and even the way 'The Ties That Bind' looks more like a convoluted bartering mission than a shoot-'em-up and should rely heavily on the characters' personal interaction to drive the story.

We may never quite get back the wide-eyed, peaceful explorer making the constant, impassioned plea for finding another way, but we seem to be moving past the "resigned soldier," as well. Late Season 8 and the early hints at Season 9 have been giving/seem to be giving us episodes where;

a) What Daniel is doing is vitally important;

b) what he's doing, in most cases, is quite creative and really cool; and, in all cases,

c) only Daniel could do it.

He's set apart again from the military-model characters, just in a different way, and one I quite like. I just hope they can keep this up.

TC

[Seshat]

It's making me nuts that I can't put my finger on the right word. Some happy medium between resigning himself to military methods and embracing them. Or, to narrow it down some more, between carving a niche for himself in the military setting and bending it to his will.

Perhaps he's been "acquiescing" to the more militaristic behaviors for the big picture/greater good rather than becoming resigned and fulling accepting them? I'm not sure that's closer to your meaning, however.

...Late Season 8 and the early hints at Season 9 have been giving/seem to be giving us episodes where:
a) What Daniel is doing is vitally important;
b) what he's doing, in most cases, is quite creative and really cool; and, in all cases,
c) only Daniel could do it.

He's set apart again from the military-model characters, just in a different way, and one I quite like. I just hope they can keep this up.

I am in full agreement with you there! I only wish I could plaster your three points re: Daniel on the writers' room wall and insist they keep these in mind when writing his character in ALL future eps. It's when they stray too far from remembering these elements that I think the eps get muddied.

[Easter Lily]

I thought I might emerge briefly from lurkdom and post something here...
I've enjoyed reading your discussion and thought that I'd briefly add my 2 cents here.

I'm not a huge Daniel fan but I do LIKE his character... and I did like it better when he represented a different point of view... a passionate idealist who wanted to always do the right thing... I didn't always agree with his point of view but he did provide another perpective to the team dynamic. I adored the Daniel in the Torment of Tantalus who desperately wanted to stay and unlock the secrets of the universe. He was the wide-eyed child in the candy store, who couldn't contain his excitement when he chanced upon new discoveries. For him knowledge was king...

After eight years, with all that he's seen and been through, it is difficult to maintain that same child-like quality. He has had to realise that the universe that he inhabits is not just about learning and love... evil is an ever present force and no amount of learning can change that. Perhaps he's compromised, or perhaps he's just grown and accepted the reality that for power, humans and aliens will do anything to protect the status quo. The military at the end of the day is just a tool... it is not evil in itself... in the right hands, the military can do a lot of good. But in the wrong hands, the military is dangerous. I think he's come to grips with that through his interaction with the SGC. The military is just made up of men and women doing their jobs. The poignancy of which is depicted so well in Heroes... Some people think that the military does things mindlessly and uses force for force sake... but we don't always have the details. Daniel has had the unique opportunity to be on both sides of the equation and he hasn't always embraced that struggle wholeheartedly. I've appreciated seeing him going through the struggle but do worry now that he's lost his idealism completely.

(By the way, one of my favourite Daniel moments is actually that of the alternate Daniel... when he is trying to teach English... A LOL moment for me. If he ever did it in any of the schools that I've taught in, he wouldn't have lasted a week...)

[Tucker Case]

Perhaps he's been "acquiescing" to the more militaristic behaviors for the big picture/greater good rather than becoming resigned and fulling accepting them?

Something like that, and maybe a bit of him learning to choose his battles for his own peace of mind. I think perhaps the biggest difference that I'm noticing is this doesn't weigh so heavily on him anymore, he doesn't carry himself like someone who's "giving in."

Or, if he is, then the military is giving in to him just as much, they're meeting him half-way. When Daniel says he's had a "vision" of Bra'tac and Ry'ac in danger, folks start drawing up a rescue plan. When Daniel says he wants to recruit Chaka for a bit of Unas diplomacy, Jack goes to bat for him with Edwards, Hammond does the same with Vidrine, and when Daniel hands Teal'c his weapon and says he needs to go it alone, Teal'c takes the weapon and lets him go. Whatever's going on - acquiesence, accomodation, compromise - it's going both ways, and maybe that's the difference I'm feeling right there.

And, if there is one word that covers this, you can be sure it will come to me around 4 a.m.

I only wish I could plaster your three points re: Daniel on the writers' room wall and insist they keep these in mind when writing his character in ALL future eps. It's when they stray too far from remembering these elements that I think the eps get muddied.

Daniel's taken on a few unique and rather esoteric qualities, which allow for some pretty fantastical storytelling. As long as they don't take "quite creative and really cool" to mean we need a

Spoiler:

"Danny's World"

every week - and that hasn't been a problem so far, but I will worry about these things - and write his singularly "Daniel" contributions on a scale befitting each episode, I could consider those three points rules to live by.

And I'm hoping Lt. Col. Mitchell's presence will help to prevent any further straying into muddied territory.

TC

[Seshat]

And I'm hoping Lt. Col. Mitchell's presence will help to prevent any further straying into muddied territory.
TC

Yes, I am hoping that Mitchell will be written to fill Jack's shoes (not BE the new 'Jack', but represent the military mindest part of the team equation), and give back the sense of balance that we had in earlier seasons.

And I heartily agree that we don't need

Spoiler:

"Danny's World"

every week. I want Daniel's contributions "on a scale befitting each episode", as you say, to be an integral part of the stories, not overwhelm them. Actually my biggest fear for next season is that Daniel's character will be given a more leadership-type role. I just don't feel that is right for our archaeologist.

[Easter Lily]

I want Daniel's contributions "on a scale befitting each episode", as you say, to be an integral part of the stories, not overwhelm them. Actually my biggest fear for next season is that Daniel's character will be given a more leadership-type role. I just don't feel that is right for our archaeologist.

Agreed. As I said in my *ahem* previous post... I too prefer Daniel to be Daniel and not some gungho military wannabe... I miss Daniel the archaeologist... I miss the way he used to get excited over finding inscriptions, completing translations... or discovering some historical titbit...

[Seshat]

Agreed. As I said in my *ahem* previous post... I too prefer Daniel to be Daniel and not some gungho military wannabe... I miss Daniel the archaeologist... I miss the way he used to get excited over finding inscriptions, completing translations... or discovering some historical titbit...

Ahh...but a good idea bears repeating.

Yes, I know we'll never get wide-eyed, innocent Daniel back, he's grown too mature and more than a little realistic for that. But I DO miss the child-like enthusiasm and accompanying vulnerability.

It's rather like watching your children grow up, I suppose. You love them as adults but you still miss the little kid in them from time to time.

[Tucker Case]

I too prefer Daniel to be Daniel and not some gungho military wannabe.

I don't mind him being a reasonably competent military "need-to-be." In a situation such as we saw in

Spoiler:

'Icon,' when Daniel had to either draw up a battle plan or never see home again and leave himself and those who had helped him at the mercy of an unstable tyrant

I like that Daniel can recognise the need for a military approach and pull together an adequate strategy. He should be able to do this by now.

However, it should never be his first choice or preferred method of doing things, nor should he be anyone else's first choice for that kind of assignment. As much as I may have appreciated, on a purely shallow level, watching him

Spoiler:

strap on the hardware in 'Endgame' and joke with Jack about how much he had learned from him, I'd prefer the writers never again use the excuse of Daniel's translating abilities to send him on a mission best suited to a Mitchell-like character, only to have him shoot first and skip the translating altogether.

There's a time and a place for Daniel to pick up his gun and lead the charge, but the fewer and farther between those times are, the better. Other characters are and should be more ideally suited to those tasks. Let Daniel crack the codes or solve the riddle or speak to the native or draw the parallel to some Earth mythology or otherwise think them past the first hurdle and then stand back and let them do their thing.

I miss Daniel the archaeologist... I miss the way he used to get excited over finding inscriptions, completing translations... or discovering some historical titbit...

Things are looking better for Daniel the archaeologist - or, at least, Daniel the "explorer" - next year. I don't know that he'll ever be as innocent or excitable as he once was but I'd sure love to see him awestruck again, see the man who you'd think had seen everything by now be stopped cold in his tracks, if not for his sake then for the show's.

The show is only ever as "wonderful" as it is for its most wonderstruck character. Daniel needs to be that character again.

TC

[StarzSkyMoon]

Hi guys!! I do believe this is the first time i have posted here. Though many of you prolly know me because i like to muddle around in the murky waters over at the DJ thunk thread.... I finally dried off enough to come and appreciate the character and not just the good looks (though the looks are important too.)

lizbeth

[gater20]

Hey this is really my first time using the gateworld forum (indeed any forum) so please forgive me if I don't know some of the terms.

Daniel, hey he's the reason I tune in!
I can't think of any particular whole eps off the top of my head, but I do have some favourite daniel moments. Any type of bantering between Jack and Daniel is an absolute classic! Those two bounce off one another so fast and so well! I love the way he has developed from wheezy little geek (of whom I adored) in the movie to the 'ethical voice of SG-1' that has presence and adds weight to the team. Thinking of mobias part2 where he enters the tent arms crossed and I just went "wow! look at our Daniel!". (I agree the biceps get mentioned here ) I love his caring attitude and passion. The list can go on and on!
Favourite Daniel moments that are on the top of my head include:
'bock-bock' noises to discribe chicken on abidos
the 'toss the symbiote head' scene and the comment "I met my father in law this way"
running down the hallway shooting replicators.
"my opinion used to mean something to you" hurt comment to jack.
"lives I was all for saving. But we're talking about going way, way, beyond that" can you feel the passion? it's almost liquid its so intense!
pushing up his glasses before making a point.
"how can we even ask that of him?" whole questioning the harsises -moral debate.
well that's enough for now. I'll go watch all of my lovely dvd's all overagain and give you more later.
Nice to meet you all, gater20

[Dani347]

Or, if he is, then the military is giving in to him just as much, they're meeting him half-way. When Daniel says he's had a "vision" of Bra'tac and Ry'ac in danger, folks start drawing up a rescue plan. When Daniel says he wants to recruit Chaka for a bit of Unas diplomacy, Jack goes to bat for him with Edwards, Hammond does the same with Vidrine, and when Daniel hands Teal'c his weapon and says he needs to go it alone, Teal'c takes the weapon and lets him go. Whatever's going on - acquiesence, accomodation, compromise - it's going both ways, and maybe that's the difference I'm feeling right there.


TC

Okay, I haven't posted in a long time here, but I just wanted to say thank you for this. I don't mind Daniel learning to accept some military outlook (as long as he doesn't become military himself -and I mean more than just having the title of civilian) but I've been wondering if we were supposed to believe that Daniel's way of looking at things were wrong and the military was right and all the change was completely up to him to do. I think it should be a two way street (because it would be dumb to create a main character who's one of the good guys, purposely make him have a different viewpoint from the rest, and then say basically, "nope, there wasn't anything of value until he conformed to everyone else's way of acting.")

Enemy Mine is a great example, not only because they listened to him, but because it all involved him using non violence. They could have written Daniel going alone with Chaka, but taking his weapon. It would still be that Teal'c trusted him to defend himself instead of needing to protect him, blah, blah, growth on Teal'c's part, blah, blah, Daniel not wide eyed innocent who thinks he doesn't need to protect himself. But, we've had ample evidence of Daniel not being wide eyed innocent. I think it was much more interesting that Teal'c trusted Daniel to go alone without a gun.

However, it should never be his first choice or preferred method of doing things, nor should he be anyone else's first choice for that kind of assignment. As much as I may have appreciated, on a purely shallow level, watching him SPOILERS (Highlight below to read):

Spoiler:

strap on the hardware in 'Endgame' and joke with Jack about how much he had learned from him, I'd prefer the writers never again use the excuse of Daniel's translating abilities to send him on a mission best suited to a Mitchell-like character, only to have him shoot first and skip the translating altogether.

Oh, I agree. I think Daniel should and does use military tactics when necessary, and has become adept at them. But, he should be the other voice. When there's another way, he should be the one to think of it and look for it. And, when he chooses military tactics over more peaceful approaches, it should mean something. The best example I can think of is Beast of Burden. that was a real character moment.

As for your spoiler:

Spoiler:

That burned me up! If Daniel needs to use a weapon, fine -although don't overdo it. But, do not start with making people think he's going to actually use his skills and then do a stinking bait and switch.

As for shallow, the muscle, gun strapping thing has never appealed to me. I'm much more shallow about glasses wearing academic Daniel. Geeks are hot!

[Ashta]

I too prefer Daniel to be Daniel and not some gungho military wannabe... I miss Daniel the archaeologist... I miss the way he used to get excited over finding inscriptions, completing translations... or discovering some historical titbit...

I concur! He is not as driven by the historical side of it anymore. I miss that about Daniel. Academics are so cool. (I saw my lecturer today... a proffessor in Ancient Civs, i looked like a typical first year bumbling something about referencing) I completely idolise historians, especially the young and cool ones... They are just purely unbelievable!

I have to run to a rehearsal!

Love Ashta

[Tucker Case]

I've been wondering if we were supposed to believe that Daniel's way of looking at things were wrong and the military was right and all the change was completely up to him to do.

I think the writing has struggled to find the balance there, to let Daniel be "right" and still fit into the framework of a story where the "right thing to do" in a given situation is at odds with that.

But, we've had ample evidence of Daniel not being wide eyed innocent. I think it was much more interesting that Teal'c trusted Daniel to go alone without a gun.

I think it’s pretty interesting, too, that they had to bring the Edwards and Vidrine characters into ‘Enemy Mine,’ in order to give Daniel the kind of resistance he wasn’t going to get from Jack or Hammond anymore. While Jack's been pretty good at making sure Daniel is aware of the cons in a situation he's getting all pro-active about (before letting him do what he wants ), those discussions take up one scene, they aren't a source of conflict for whole episodes these days.

I know Dana Jeanne mentioned feeling that, if ‘The Other Side’ were to take place in Season 8, the Eurondans would have got their heavy water and we’d have some cool new weapons, but I’m not so sure. The feeling I’ve gotten, over the last couple of seasons, is more that if ‘Scorched Earth’ were to take place now, Jack would not only allow Daniel to try and work things out with Lotan (and fall back on other measures if and only if Daniel said he couldn’t make it work), he just might be the one to ask Daniel to work something out with Lotan. The Enkarans would be getting antsy, and Jack would be there telling them, “Daniel’s usually right about these things. If he thinks we can reason with this guy, then odds are we can reason him.”

I think Daniel should and does use military tactics when necessary, and has become adept at them. But, he should be the other voice.

He should; the problem seems to be more the lack of opportunity.

What pleases me, though, as I mentioned before, is that the writers seem to have learned how to accommodate Daniel as much as the military has. They’ve started cashing in on his ascension (incrementally, which is good) and now, if they do create too few opportunities for Daniel to be that other voice (not so good, but the way things seem to be), Daniel himself has taken on some other-worldly aspects. They don’t let him play in the moral sandbox as often, but they’ve been building a nice big mystical sandbox for him to play in from time to time instead – and Daniel, I think, owes that, as a character, to his having been that other voice from the outset.

I'm much more shallow about glasses wearing academic Daniel. Geeks are hot!

Ah, but with Daniel I get to have it both ways. Some geeks are hotter than others, and some gun-toting hunks are hotter than others, and Daniel is hotter than others on both counts.

TC

[Dani347]

He should; the problem seems to be more the lack of opportunity.

Although someone could argue that it is precisely that they don't create these opportunities that's a big problem. It seems now (or at least was - hopefully this won't hold true next season) that the show has become almost all about war and the military, so in order to survive there can't be any opportunities. And, since they've always been fighting the gou'ald and various enemies since the beginning, and in the early episodes still made a significant place for exploration/peaceful means, it shouldn't change into being about the gun is mightier than the voice. There was a good balance of both, and that shouldn't change. More opportunities should be given.

. They’ve started cashing in on his ascension (incrementally, which is good) and now, if they do create too few opportunities for Daniel to be that other voice (not so good, but the way things seem to be), Daniel himself has taken on some other-worldly aspects. They don’t let him play in the moral sandbox as often, but they’ve been building a nice big mystical sandbox for him to play in from time to time instead – and Daniel, I think, owes that, as a character, to his having been that other voice from the outset.

TC

See, I'm not so sure I like that. Used very spariingly, yes. I loved

Spoiler:

Danny's World

. But, I don't want him to become this superhuman, or to have that be the thing that makes him unique from the military mindset. It's his human-ness (I think this is more accurate than humanity) that makes him interesting, and the down to earth problems that I find compelling, not really the otherworldly stuff.