Daniel Jackson Discussion and Appreciation

[JessM]

I wanted to bring up this thread because I was watching a few first and second season sg1 episodes yesterday (instead of studying like I should be), and I I hadn't seen them in a while. I am more familiar right now with 8,9, and 10 Daniel, and a lot of people discuss how he has changed so much.

So what kind of changes are we talking about here? I see the term 'action Jackson' being tossed around for the last two seasons. But I don't really see a change in the amount of running/shooting scenes from the first five seasons to the last two. In fact, I think this one scene (and I cannot remember the replicator episode this one is for the life of me right now) where he's covering the rest of SG1's backs in this hallway and blowing the crap out of replicators, is one of the biggest actions scenes for him. And that was in four or five!

I think his snark level and his sarcasm have been consistent throughout all ten seasons. I know some think he was channeling Jack a lot in nine and ten, but when comparing earlier and later episodes, he is a smartass quite frequently.

A third thing I think is consistent is his love of discovery and solving mysteries and exploration. He is fascinated by things like that in every season but the season six episodes. I didn't see any disinterest in nine and ten, rather, I actually saw him more interested in his books and discoveries and mythology than I had in seven and eight, when it seemed he was more the diplomat.


So these things I see as being present in every season. What is different to me?

The big glaring one to me is loss of innocence. Then I would say a much different understanding of the military and understanding about his military friends and the hard decisions they must make in the name of safety. in Season 2, for example, he'd have really tried hard to save Adria as a child right off the bat. In 10, he suggest to kill her. It sounds very cold hearted for him. But to me, it shows that he, because of his experiences and friendships with Sam and Jack and Teal'c, maybe because of Sha're, he has learned that sometimes you have to nip the potential disaster in the early stages BEFORE it becomes a disaster.

The other thing I see changed is that in 4 and 5, he seems very lost and grieving. In nine and ten, he seems very exhausted. It's an interesting parallel, and I haven't really thought much about it yet, and what it means for Daniel.

Hey heliosphere, I recognize you from the Anti- thread (yes guys I do lurk/sometimes post in there... *ducks heavy flying objects*).

I don't really use the "action jackson" term that much myself... I see it as a more general term. But I do see Daniel becoming a bit more pro-active, especially after he descended. Maybe the running/shooting scenes haven't increased, but I think Daniel's reluctance to take part in them has changed. In the earlier seasons, he'd be involved in it only when it was absolutely necessary. I have an old magazine interview from Michael Shanks.. it was done around mid-season 1 and he said that Daniel is the least likely to want to take action.

I can definitely see a change as far as that is concerned over the seasons. The thing that's remained constant is that Daniel knows what they're up against... from the Goa'uld to the Replicators to the Ori. But I think he has become more involved in the action, and isn't so hesitant about it any longer.

I do agree about the loss of innocence. I have noticed that especially after S3/4. And I suppose it makes sense given all that he's been through.

As for the sarcasm/snark, I think that has changed, but before anyone jumps on me let me explain. Yes, Daniel has always been sarcastic/snarky. But it was always subtle and I had no problem with it. I'm thinking of his "Okay we'll just upload a virus into the mothership" from Politics as an example (can't think of any others right now)... It was quiet, it was subtle, it seemed natural. I dunno what it is but in the past few seasons it's seemed more forced and a bit OTT to me and makes him come off as a bit too glib (there are a handful of scenes I could think of from Company of Thieves).

I don't know if that makes any sense? I'm just trying to explain how I view things. I know many see this as a natural progression of the character after all he's been through and I guess in a way that could make sense... but the things that irked me about him in the couple most recent seasons were the times the sarcasm seemed a bit OTT and out of place, and of course the lack of interaction with his old friends. I know that's not his fault, it's that of TPTB, but I couldn't help losing just an iota of respect for him.

In the end I am still a big Daniel fan but I've had issues/misgivings that I wish I could put behind me but I just can't. I hope that's not a problem. If it is then I'll just leave this thread. I don't want to bring everyone down.

[discodiva]

((((Jess)))) as you already know, no-one here would ever want you to leave this thread and we do understand how you feel......however, I'm sure you understand how some of us very pro-Daniel fans feel too.....imho there aren't as many Daniel fans as there used to be on GW these days and I feel that the two main threads that deal with Daniel will probably try and put forward a lot more of the positive sides of Daniel than the negatives......


I personally think that Daniel's negatives aren't that bad, none of the team's are.....they're heroes on a TV show after all........however they all have them!...


I decided a few months ago not to visit the "Anti" threads any more....I don't need negativity in my life - I come here for fun - so perhaps that's why I don't find the changes in Daniel that much of a problem to deal with.....I tend to treat each season as a different challenge.....(although I could probably find a few negative things to say about certain earlier seasons, a certain "ship" and the way I believe Daniel's character was treated but I would try not to do too much of that here)....but I have to be honest and say that with every season there's usually been far more things that Daniel's done that I'm proud of than not.....

I have to go searching for a new Xmas tree and lights this morning, but if I have time later on I might go search through my Seasons one by one and try and bring some "positive Action Jackson" feelings on different episodes....that way we can keep the Daniel flag flying and turn a description that may upset a few of us into a positive again.....

I still think that Daniel is the most complex, fascinating, flawed but beautiful character in Stargate.......


Deeds xx

[Margaret]

I first heard the term 'Action Jackson' in connection with the Season 8 episode Avatar. There's a scene (that was played over and over and over in the advertisements) where Daniel is fired upon with energy weapons, but just in the nick of time he drops to the floor, rolls, and returns fire from a prone position. The quintessential 'Action Jackson' scene.

Also in Season 8, Endgame had a gateroom scene, where Daniel is all decked out in armor and weapons looking more like Rambo than anything else. It was visually stunning but in visual language it said that the peace-maker had been replaced by the warrior.

You can argue all you want that it wasn't so; that Daniel had fought as far back as the movie. But if you look at the visual images, they say 'warrior.' That is the impression of Daniel that TPTB were trying to convey to the audience (especially the teen-age boys in the audience) because they were trying to market Stargate as an action show. Daniel's other abilities weren't really valued at this time. He had to be a fighter or he couldn't participate because that was the kind of show SciFi wanted.

[JessM]

((((Jess)))) as you already know, no-one here would ever want you to leave this thread and we do understand how you feel......however, I'm sure you understand how some of us very pro-Daniel fans feel too.....imho there aren't as many Daniel fans as there used to be on GW these days and I feel that the two main threads that deal with Daniel will probably try and put forward a lot more of the positive sides of Daniel than the negatives......


I personally think that Daniel's negatives aren't that bad, none of the team's are.....they're heroes on a TV show after all........however they all have them!...


I decided a few months ago not to visit the "Anti" threads any more....I don't need negativity in my life - I come here for fun - so perhaps that's why I don't find the changes in Daniel that much of a problem to deal with.....I tend to treat each season as a different challenge.....(although I could probably find a few negative things to say about certain earlier seasons, a certain "ship" and the way I believe Daniel's character was treated but I would try not to do too much of that here)....but I have to be honest and say that with every season there's usually been far more things that Daniel's done that I'm proud of than not.....

I have to go searching for a new Xmas tree and lights this morning, but if I have time later on I might go search through my Seasons one by one and try and bring some "positive Action Jackson" feelings on different episodes....that way we can keep the Daniel flag flying and turn a description that may upset a few of us into a positive again.....

I still think that Daniel is the most complex, fascinating, flawed but beautiful character in Stargate.......


Deeds xx

(((Deeds))) Thanks for the pep talk. I'm really sorry that I keep harping on this and going negative as I can tell it's bringing people down. I've already stated my views on Daniel, bad AND good, so I suppose there's no need for me to air them anymore.

Major props to you for looking on the bright side of things. I wish I could view things this way more often. Maybe I tend to look at the characters much too realistically. It always bothers me when people engage in idol worship (not that I'm saying anyone here on this thread does - I'm just talking generally) and don't recognize that the characters are indeed human (or Jaffa, or whatever... lol) with very human flaws.

What I like about Gateworld is that people for the most part are very friendly and tolerant of different opinions. I've been to other sites where people were extremely protective of certain characters and hated other ones... and if you dared say you liked the other characters as well, you'd get attacked. It was not pretty. At the end of the day, it's just a tv show.

As I'm sure you know, the only negatives that have bothered me about Daniel were little quirks in his attitude recently and lack of expressing feelings for some of his friends. But I understand why the latter occurred, even though I'm not particularly happy about it. Even with these flaws I'm still a fan of Daniel... I hope that comes through in my posts.

I first heard the term 'Action Jackson' in connection with the Season 8 episode Avatar. There's a scene (that was played over and over and over in the advertisements) where Daniel is fired upon with energy weapons, but just in the nick of time he drops to the floor, rolls, and returns fire from a prone position. The quintessential 'Action Jackson' scene.

Also in Season 8, Endgame had a gateroom scene, where Daniel is all decked out in armor and weapons looking more like Rambo than anything else. It was visually stunning but in visual language it said that the peace-maker had been replaced by the warrior.

You can argue all you want that it wasn't so; that Daniel had fought as far back as the movie. But if you look at the visual images, they say 'warrior.' That is the impression of Daniel that TPTB were trying to convey to the audience (especially the teen-age boys in the audience) because they were trying to market Stargate as an action show. Daniel's other abilities weren't really valued at this time. He had to be a fighter or he couldn't participate because that was the kind of show SciFi wanted.

Very interesting points, Margaret. I remember that Daniel was promoted this way by SciFi. Even if we look at the episodes and Daniel's actions in context with each episode, in the end the image that the network promoted was a sort of "action Jackson" one. It does make sense.

Not dissing Daniel at all here... just making some observations.

[discodiva]

Thought I might take this discussion in a new direction.........now it's looking rather hopeful that Daniel may get his chance to explore Atlantis once again....after this piece in Joe Mallozzi's blog.....


"Since he was there, I took the opportunity to pitch Michael what we had so far on the Daniel Jackson story - something happens and Atlantis must call in Dr. Jackson who is the key to solving some as-of-yet-undecided mystery and this leads to all sorts of hilarious misadventure. I suggested that if he had any notes, now would be a good time to give them."


So......not being a big Atlantis fan but excited at the prospect of Daniel re-appearing in the Stargate Universe again, how do we think he'll interact with the other Atlantis characters and what sort of "misadventures" (hilarious or otherwise...) would you like to see him tackle?....


Deeds xx

[madaboutdanny]

The episode I am most reminded of here is actually Meridian. When he's laying in bed, unable to move and with bandages on his face while Jack is talking to him. In both cases, I think Daniel is feeling very alone. In Meridian, Jack defends Daniel to other people with every ounce of his being. But when they are talking, just the two of them, there seems to me to be a distance there. Like they're not really connecting. It's not the closeness and love that both Sam and Teal'c show with him..

Do you mean when Daniel is dying and Sam is worried about the naquadria? I found Sam hypocrite in Meridian. I prefered much more Jack, especially in Revelations when "Daniel" blows through Sgc and ruffled Jack hair and he, just him not Teal'c or Sam, knew he's Daniel and smile, that kind little smile that show me much more about Jack/Daniel than a hypocrite weeping. Sorry Jess, but I don't like Sam, at all, because her behaviour in Meridian.

[discodiva]

Do you mean when Daniel is dying and Sam is worried about the naquadria? I found Sam hypocrite in Meridian. I prefered much more Jack, especially in Revelations when "Daniel" blows through Sgc and ruffled Jack hair and he, just him not Teal'c or Sam, knew he's Daniel and smile, that kind little smile that show me much more about Jack/Daniel than a hypocrite weeping. Sorry Jess, but I don't like Sam, at all, because her behaviour in Meridian.

I'd hate a Daniel thread to be turned into a "who grieved for Daniel the most" argument, because I don't believe that this is what this thread's for.....For my part the words from a song come to mind "You don't know what you've got till it's gone" ring the most true from that episode....

I think they all finally realised what Daniel had done for them in the past 5 years, what he'd gone through and how much a part of their lives he was.....it's very hard to portray that in a single episode....my gripe is that they used up 2 episodes only a short time before on the Tokra/Summit/Last Stand stuff (I'll still never forgive them for sticking those stupid pyjamas and arm bands on Daniel...) when imo Meridian deserved a fuller and more in-depth episode/episodes where perhaps Daniel's impact on the whole of the SGC and other worlds and his struggle to accept that he was worthy of Acension could have been more widely explored.......


Of course then I'd be crying even more buckets of tears than I already have!....


Deeds xx

[JessM]

Thought I might take this discussion in a new direction.........now it's looking rather hopeful that Daniel may get his chance to explore Atlantis once again....after this piece in Joe Mallozzi's blog.....


"Since he was there, I took the opportunity to pitch Michael what we had so far on the Daniel Jackson story - something happens and Atlantis must call in Dr. Jackson who is the key to solving some as-of-yet-undecided mystery and this leads to all sorts of hilarious misadventure. I suggested that if he had any notes, now would be a good time to give them."


So......not being a big Atlantis fan but excited at the prospect of Daniel re-appearing in the Stargate Universe again, how do we think he'll interact with the other Atlantis characters and what sort of "misadventures" (hilarious or otherwise...) would you like to see him tackle?....


Deeds xx

Thanks Deeds for posting that... I am looking forward to seeing Daniel in Atlantis. I'd especially like to see him interacting with the other doctors. We haven't seen him interact much with McKay, and I don't think he's had any scenes with Zelenka. It would be neat to see them conversing as fellow scientists.

I also think any Daniel/Ronon interaction would be pretty neat.

And I know it goes without saying that I'd like to see him interact with Sam as well. Even if it's just a "so how are you doing here?" type of thing. Hey, she got a farewell scene with Teal'c. But I'm getting off-topic now.

I'd hate a Daniel thread to be turned into a "who grieved for Daniel the most" argument, because I don't believe that this is what this thread's for.....For my part the words from a song come to mind "You don't know what you've got till it's gone" ring the most true from that episode....

I think they all finally realised what Daniel had done for them in the past 5 years, what he'd gone through and how much a part of their lives he was.....it's very hard to portray that in a single episode....my gripe is that they used up 2 episodes only a short time before on the Tokra/Summit/Last Stand stuff (I'll still never forgive them for sticking those stupid pyjamas and arm bands on Daniel...) when imo Meridian deserved a fuller and more in-depth episode/episodes where perhaps Daniel's impact on the whole of the SGC and other worlds and his struggle to accept that he was worthy of Acension could have been more widely explored.......


Of course then I'd be crying even more buckets of tears than I already have!....


Deeds xx

That is how I saw the episode. Mad, you don't have to apologize for your opinion. I know other fans who feel the same way about her in regards to this episode (and they've flamed me badly I hate to admit so I'd like to avoid an argument if possible).

I agree w/Deeds - unfortunately they only had a certain amount of time in one episode to devote to everything... Not just Daniel risking his life to save millions and dying, but also the underlying plot involving the naquadria and Jonas' role. I think that if they had more time in the episode (say, 90 minutes instead of 43... or even if they'd made it a two-parter), they would have spent more time on Daniel's impact on the SGC and his team members grieving for him.

I think we see how hard it hit Sam not only in her tearful speech to him in Meridian, but also in Revelations when she was in his lab, holding his journal and his glasses. What she said to Hammond shows how upset she was (as well as what she said to Teal'c later... the "I don't care, I'd rather have him back" line). I liked what they did with the Jack/Daniel friendship in the episode and I think it was only natural because Daniel knows Jack the longest and has the strongest, closest bond with him. It's like they came full circle from the movie to the series. IMHO, anyway.

They just didn't have time to show much of the Sam and Teal'c sides, but from what we saw they were grieving over losing their friend. Even with the "Sam/Naquadria" stuff...

But that's just my opinion, do with it what you will.
(*ducks... then raises head hesitantly...*)

[discodiva]

Thanks Deeds for posting that... I am looking forward to seeing Daniel in Atlantis. I'd especially like to see him interacting with the other doctors. We haven't seen him interact much with McKay, and I don't think he's had any scenes with Zelenka. It would be neat to see them conversing as fellow scientists.

I also think any Daniel/Ronon interaction would be pretty neat.

Oh god, imagine Daniel and Zelenka talking "ten to the dozen" at each other at speed......it'll be enough to drive Rodney to want to throw himself off one of the balconies!....


I hope Daniel gets a chance to interact with them all.....I think he'd be great with Teyla.....after all he understands women from other worlds pretty well doesn't he?....

As far as I'm concerned it goes without saying that I'd want him to get a very warm welcome from Sam.....I think he's missed her loads since her departure to Atlantis.....Daniel is a loyal friend....


Deeds xx

[madaboutdanny]

Deeds, I was answering to Callista comment.... "But when they are talking, just the two of them, there seems to me to be a distance there. Like they're not really connecting. It's not the closeness and love that both Sam and Teal'c show with him.."
Just to explain that I don't think like her, instead is the opposite. Daniel asks his help to ascend and in Revelations only Jack recognizes Daniel in the gentle breeze that blows...and this is the reason why I don't see distance between Jack and Daniel, obviously is just my opinion And I totally agree with you, his ascension would have deserved much more depth as well as for his return in Fallen, settled in a 20 or so minutes....

[discodiva]

Deeds, I was answering to Callista comment.... "But when they are talking, just the two of them, there seems to me to be a distance there. Like they're not really connecting. It's not the closeness and love that both Sam and Teal'c show with him.."
Just to explain that I don't think like her, instead is the opposite. Daniel asks his help to ascend and in Revelations only Jack recognizes Daniel in the gentle breeze that blows...and this is the reason why I don't see distance between Jack and Daniel, obviously is just my opinion And I totally agree with you, his ascension would have deserved much more depth as well as for his return in Fallen, settled in a 20 or so minutes....

Oops sorry about that....I guess I should have multi-quoted....forgot....


Oh yeah I quite understand mads and can see where you're coming from......


Ugh...don't get me started on "Fallen"..........EVERYTHING was rushed on that.....Daniel's decision to return, his memory regain and being catapulted into the mission, and as much as I'm not a huge Jonas fan I think the way he was shunted off from the SGC so quickly after their return from Kelowna was deplorable too....plus I thought he and Daniel worked very well together...........another arc that could and should have gone on for a lot longer.......


Deeds xx

[madaboutdanny]

Oops sorry about that....I guess I should have multi-quoted....forgot....


Oh yeah I quite understand mads and can see where you're coming from......


Ugh...don't get me started on "Fallen"..........EVERYTHING was rushed on that.....Daniel's decision to return, his memory regain and being catapulted into the mission, and as much as I'm not a huge Jonas fan I think the way he was shunted off from the SGC so quickly after their return from Kelowna was deplorable too....plus I thought he and Daniel worked very well together...........another arc that could and should have gone on for a lot longer.......


Deeds xx

No need to be sorry . Especially from you . And yes, Fallen was a disappointing ep . But I was so happy to see Jonas shunted off

[Suebsg9]

Oops sorry about that....I guess I should have multi-quoted....forgot....


Oh yeah I quite understand mads and can see where you're coming from......


Ugh...don't get me started on "Fallen"..........EVERYTHING was rushed on that.....Daniel's decision to return, his memory regain and being catapulted into the mission, and as much as I'm not a huge Jonas fan I think the way he was shunted off from the SGC so quickly after their return from Kelowna was deplorable too....plus I thought he and Daniel worked very well together...........another arc that could and should have gone on for a lot longer.......


Deeds xx

Agree Fallen was way to rushed even Michael says it in his commentary to the eps where all of sudden some of his memory has come back.

And can I say with "M" aka Meridian; I watch that in mute til everyone starts talking to Daniel; hard eps to watch but I try to watch it but I think I cry more for Janet then I do Daniel cause you know he comes back.

And term Action Jackson; not sure really fits Daniel cause you see him more involved with the team in s7, s8, s9 & s10! I mean I never really liked the fact he had to always be protected. I am glad he is able to take care of himself these days. He has been at the sgc so long that he should be able to use a P90; never understand why on his BDU's he never carries a zat always questioned that. I mean they still have him holding the little gun while everyone else has p90's; just some trips he gets to carry that.

But that is my opinion and this is my first time to thread

Find it intresting what fans think

Always good to have lots of Daniel threads to come to

[JessM]

Oh god, imagine Daniel and Zelenka talking "ten to the dozen" at each other at speed......it'll be enough to drive Rodney to want to throw himself off one of the balconies!....


I hope Daniel gets a chance to interact with them all.....I think he'd be great with Teyla.....after all he understands women from other worlds pretty well doesn't he?....

As far as I'm concerned it goes without saying that I'd want him to get a very warm welcome from Sam.....I think he's missed her loads since her departure to Atlantis.....Daniel is a loyal friend....


Deeds xx

I think I smell a fanfiction idea.

Oh, poor Rodney, I don't think I could do that to him. Heh

I hope he gets to interact with them all as well. I'd like to see him interact with Teyla. I've read a few fics now that have Daniel going to Atlantis and interacting with most of the crew there. They were done pretty well. The first was "What You Already Know" by Maureen Thayer and the second "All That I Need" by Betty Bokor.

I'd post the links here but don't know if anyone is interested... The first fic has a Daniel/Sam version and a Gen version. The second one is Daniel/Sam and takes place while Sam is in Atlantis.

But anyhoo I agree that Fallen seemed pretty rushed... from Daniel deciding to go back to the SGC to his gaining his memories back... pretty much everything.

[Daniel's shadow]

Interesting discussion.

Daniel going to Atlantis is great. I want to see him interact with more with the city and its people. It is a shame that this was not so for Pegasus Project. After all it is Daniel's Disneyland.

Ok one thing i really hate in the Anti-Thread is that they go on and on about Action Jackson. Geez how that term really annoy me. For a start to me Daniel has always been a fighter whether it be words and interaction with people. Fighting for doing the right thing has always been part of Daniel. In fact that's one of the reason why he is known as the heart and soul of SGC.

The other thing is Daniel has never been one to act like a damsel in distress waiting for the others to protect him. In fact in fact I see him doing his share to protect the team, SGC, earth and the universe. It does not mean that he is comfortable in doing it (like seating in the command chair of the Odyssey) but he will do what's right like blasting out a tank full of symbiotes.

It is all about leadership and respect. He leads and people follow because they repect him. (A good example is in Arthur's Mantle checking survelliance tapes where they do what he tells them). On the other hand they also know that he can be a good friend hence why the people at the SGC can kid with him like Marks in the "I'm always ready to shoot scene" and of course Vala and her antics.

There's also a gentler side to him which is a complete juxapostiton to his stubborness which can even outlast O'Neill's or a Jaffa warrior.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that calling him Action Jackson is not a fair and accurate description of this very complex man and it just riles me up.

As for Fallen yeah, that could have been a four or even a six parter episode just like The Shroud should have been.