Daniel Jackson Discussion and Appreciation

[JessM]

While I personally agree with Jess and Maxim that Daniel isn't gay - I've learned that people will see what they want to see. We all have different points of view and the show speaks to us on many different levels. I can see where some might see subtext between Jack and Daniel... or Daniel and Janet, or Daniel and Sam, or... Okay, so I can't see Daniel and Teal'c! LOL! That's just me. Subtext is fine. I laughed along with many others I'm sure at the nod given to the J/D and J/S shippers in 200. They managed both in the same scene! How perfect was that? LOL!

I really hope I haven't offended anyone in what I said. I agree that people will see what they want to see, and that's fine with me. I personally don't think Daniel is gay and that is my opinion. Others may see it differently and I'm okay with that. I hope I didn't project in my post that I found something wrong with those who did think he was gay.

That said, at this point I would really hate to see them take that subtext and try to make it canon. Jack and Sam UST is canon. Vala lusting after Daniel is canon. Anything else... One: I don't trust the writers to handle it well. Two: there isn't time. Three: it would require a shift of focus away from the team and what SG-1 is really about; i.e. the big picture.

That's how I feel about it. I think it's fine as long as there is only subtext there. That way, people can glean whatever they want from it - shippers and noromos could both be happy. It's when the subtext becomes too overt to the point of becoming canon that bugs me personally.

Would it be nice if Daniel had a love life? Well... I'm pretty sure he does! LOL! He's a passionate and private man. Just because we haven't seen or heard tell of it doesn't mean he hasn't had the occassional date.

Spoiler:

Daniel taking Vala to dinner in Momento Mori doesn't count! --IMHO, or course. (WINK!)

You know that's a very good point. Just because we don't see it onscreen doesn't mean that he doesn't have a love life.

As I said before, I don't want to see the writers try to explore anything more serious for him at this time - it just wouldn't be smart. I'll leave that for fanfic. (And I'm all for it there!!!) I'd much rather the writers concentrate on the team dynamics which seem to have become a bit... unimportant in terms of storytelling - with a few wonderful exceptions like 'The Quest, part 1'

If we had another season to look forward to, maybe I'd feel differently. I can imagine a Daniel/Vala story arc that would be similar to the Sam/Pete storyline. I can also imagine Daniel/Nurse-we've never-met-before - but whatever romance storyline you want to pick for him, it would require a huge time investment to carry it off. I just can't see it happening on-screen.

'Course... if they want to have Daniel kiss someone, I won't complain - so long as it isn't contrived and fits into the larger dictates of the overall storyline.

I'll stop rambling now!

That's the bottom line. If it actually fits into the storyline I won't mind it so much (even though I don't really want to see any romance onscreen). And you know how I feel about the team dynamics so I don't think there's much I can add.

[JessM]

Hmmm. I don't know. I'll reiterate for the record that I don't see Daniel as being gay or being confused about his sexuality - I think he's hetero. However, I know people who like to think Daniel is gay and its not because they think he's prissy/self-righteous but more because of his compassion and sensitivity fits with a rather cliche gay stereotype. Its not that they dislike him; they just see aspects of his character that may come across that way. Some people do genuinely see Jack/Daniel as a ship; ship is very much in the eye of the beholder.

Again as I said in my previous post (in reply to Maj_C) I hope I didn't offend anyone. I definitely wouldn't doubt that there are people who like to think Daniel is gay for those reasons. I myself haven't met any though... the ones I met thought Daniel was gay because they thought he was prissy/self-righteous. But they're only the ones that I've met so they don't represent everyone who thinks he is gay. I have no problem with Jack/Daniel shippers at all; as you said, ship is in the eye of the beholder. The only problem shippers of any stripe bug me is when they try to force their ship upon me and convert me. Otherwise I have no problem with them.

As an S/J shipper, I forgive you.

*grin* Thanks.

I think its the constant teaming up that annoys me. Any over-use of a pairing whether its Daniel/Vala, Sam/Jack, Jack/Daniel, Cameron/Teal'c, etc can unbalance the on-screen dynamics of what is a show about a team. I remember back in the early Seasons complaining that we never got to see a Sam/Teal'c moment and Daniel/Teal'c was quite rare too...the writers did need to address it. The second half of the Season spoilers do suggest they're going to mix the team pairings up more so here's hoping.

Same here. I remember there really weren't any Sam/Teal'c moments early on and I was glad that we got some eventually. And you're right, the spoilers do sound a bit promising in that regard, so I'm crossing my fingers.

[Racingtime]

About the sexuality issue: As a gay man myself, I would LOVE to see a gay man who is a main character, non-stereotypical, and shown as just as much of a hero as all the straight characters. However, that said, I agree with everyone else that Daniel isn't gay. Since I feel he definitely loved Sha're, the closest the writers could push it to make it believable would be to say that he's bisexual. But either way, outside of a couple of jokes they've made (Moebius, 200th, possibly outtakes of Ripple Effect depending on how you take them), I doubt they'd ever go there nor do they need to. I'm actually a slash fan (particularly Jack/Daniel) BUT it's only offscreen. Just like Jess said she feels in regards to liking Sam/Daniel, I'm also someone who likes to see their FRIENDships onscreen and then offscreen is where I'll read the slash and I definitely wouldn't push my fantasy viewpoint on anyone else.

As for Daniel/Vala, I've written about my viewpoint on this a lot and I'm still very against the idea of them becoming romantically involved. For the most part with a couple exceptions, I don't particularly like what characteristics they bring out in each other and I think that would be even worse if they started dating (both Claudia and Michael have also said they don't think D/V would work as a romantic couple). I don't see Daniel as being particularly needy of a romantic relationship and I also think he has much more important things on his mind right now too. I've said it before but I don't get this constant pressure there is to pair up. Daniel has friends who love him, would do anything for him, and who have experienced so many things together some of which would make other people turn away. There are many people out there who don't even have that much and from what we know of Daniel's past, these last 10 years have provided him with a family that he'd been missing most of his life. I'd rather see them concentrating on showing the team's interactions in the little time we have left.

[Dani347]

Daniel has friends who love him, would do anything for him, and who have experienced so many things together some of which would make other people turn away. There are many people out there who don't even have that much and from what we know of Daniel's past, these last 10 years have provided him with a family that he'd been missing most of his life. I'd rather see them concentrating on showing the team's interactions in the little time we have left.

So true. I don't feel that Daniel is lacking, and more importantly, I don't get the impression that he feels that way.

[Rachel500]

About the sexuality issue: As a gay man myself, I would LOVE to see a gay man who is a main character, non-stereotypical, and shown as just as much of a hero as all the straight characters. However, that said, I agree with everyone else that Daniel isn't gay.

As a heterosexual woman, I would LOVE to see a regular main character who just happens to be gay. I agree that I wouldn't want it to define the character especially not in a sterotype but I don't see why all the characters have to be straight. Maybe they'll attempt it in the next spin-off.

As for Daniel/Vala, I've written about my viewpoint on this a lot and I'm still very against the idea of them becoming romantically involved. For the most part with a couple exceptions, I don't particularly like what characteristics they bring out in each other and I think that would be even worse if they started dating (both Claudia and Michael have also said they don't think D/V would work as a romantic couple). I don't see Daniel as being particularly needy of a romantic relationship and I also think he has much more important things on his mind right now too. I've said it before but I don't get this constant pressure there is to pair up. Daniel has friends who love him, would do anything for him, and who have experienced so many things together some of which would make other people turn away. There are many people out there who don't even have that much and from what we know of Daniel's past, these last 10 years have provided him with a family that he'd been missing most of his life. I'd rather see them concentrating on showing the team's interactions in the little time we have left.

I very much agree with the sentiment I bolded in your quote. I'm not against ship - I'm not particularly against Daniel/Vala as a ship although, on-screen chemistry aside, I don't see it between the characters - but I'd like to see the team aspect very much be the focus of the 2H of the show.

I don't mind the characteristics of the Daniel-Vala dynamic - they do tend to bring out the worst in each other either through intention provacation or simply a clash of personality but I think that's not a bad thing - everyone has someone who does this and it is an aspect of Daniel which, while not particularly likeable, makes him very human. I think particularly in S10 they're slowly starting to work past that and find some firm ground where they can work together without irritating each other so much.

I quite like the idea of them being a pesky brother/sister combo where there'll be quite a lot of affection underpinning the verbal banter and sparring (ie for me its a version of the Jack/Daniel relationship only with Jack as 'the older brother' figure replaced by Vala as 'the annoying younger sister' figure).

[JessM]

So true. I don't feel that Daniel is lacking, and more importantly, I don't get the impression that he feels that way.

Count me in.

[Dani347]

I quite like the idea of them being a pesky brother/sister combo where they'll be quite a lot of affection underpinning the verbal banter and sparring (ie for me its a version of the Jack/Daniel relationship only with Jack as 'the older brother' figure replaced by Vala as 'the annoying younger sister' figure).

This is how I always see them, right down to the replacement of Jack, modified for Vala. And, just to clarify, I don't mean a literal replacement for Jack. Like I'm sure you also didn't mean. Just the "I can beat you up, but I'll beat up anyone else who lays a hand on you" type of sibling relationship -again, not literal!- that Jack and Daniel always had. This time, Vala has been cast in the "I'll make faces, and tag along, and tell embarrassing stories to your friends, but when I tell someone that you're my big brother, they'll hear pride in my voice." I like the dynamic, I like Daniel seeing it from the other side. I don't have a problem with him being annoyed or snapping at Vala when she acts nutty. It may not be how you want him to act when you take him home to mother, but I like his warts.

What I don't like is constantly seeing those aspects of his character portrayed, or even the more pleasant aspects, if directed all towards Vala. If you stick Daniel with one person all the time, you miss different facets of his character. Because Daniel will (or should, if written correctly) act differently with Sam than he does with Vala, and how he acts with her is different than how he would be with Teal'c, and Mitchell, etc, etc. Because how they act, and their personalities would factor in to the dynamic. No big things where it would seem like Daniel has mulitple personalities, just subtle shadings which take into account the various relationships he has with all of them.

[Rachel500]

This is how I always see them, right down to the replacement of Jack, modified for Vala. And, just to clarify, I don't mean a literal replacement for Jack. Like I'm sure you also didn't mean. Just the "I can beat you up, but I'll beat up anyone else who lays a hand on you" type of sibling relationship -again, not literal!- that Jack and Daniel always had. This time, Vala has been cast in the "I'll make faces, and tag along, and tell embarrassing stories to your friends, but when I tell someone that you're my big brother, they'll hear pride in my voice." I like the dynamic, I like Daniel seeing it from the other side. I don't have a problem with him being annoyed or snapping at Vala when she acts nutty. It may not be how you want him to act when you take him home to mother, but I like his warts.

Yep, definitely didn't mean literally! I like the Jack/Daniel dynamic far too much to want to lose that! I'm really looking forward to

Spoiler:

The Shroud in the hopes we get some really nice Jack/Daniel stuff

I agree I do think its great that Daniel gets to be the older brother who's irritated in a role reversal type of thing. *feels a fanfic idea coming on*

[grasshopper64]

About the sexuality issue: As a gay man myself, I would LOVE to see a gay man who is a main character, non-stereotypical, and shown as just as much of a hero as all the straight characters. However, that said, I agree with everyone else that Daniel isn't gay. Since I feel he definitely loved Sha're, the closest the writers could push it to make it believable would be to say that he's bisexual. But either way, outside of a couple of jokes they've made (Moebius, 200th, possibly outtakes of Ripple Effect depending on how you take them), I doubt they'd ever go there nor do they need to. I'm actually a slash fan (particularly Jack/Daniel) BUT it's only offscreen. Just like Jess said she feels in regards to liking Sam/Daniel, I'm also someone who likes to see their FRIENDships onscreen and then offscreen is where I'll read the slash and I definitely wouldn't push my fantasy viewpoint on anyone else.

Completely agree. I would love to see a gay character on a show like Stargate, I mean gay characters are few and far between in scifi and sadly it's still seen as being controversial in many quarters, but that's a whole separate discussion

I am a J/D slasher myself and I don't see Daniel as being gay onscreen, I can go with him possibly being bisexual, but then they haven't shown him as having an interest in another guy or anything else that would suggest it, so how can you say?

I think this all started from that interview MS did in Eclipse magazine
where he said there was a question mark over Daniel's sexuality. Not sure if it's already been mentioned on this thread but anyway found the relevant bit, contains spoilers for The Shroud and The Bounty.

Spoiler:

What did Shanks find most annoying about Daniel Jackson now? The answer was a bit startling to say the least.

“It’s funny because we have two things that happen. There is the ongoing storyline that started in season nine with Vala, about her sort of being interested in him and Daniel not being interested in her. Then this year we have another sort of pseudo love interest in the part of her daughter, Adria, played by Morena Baccarin.”

At this point, Shanks lapses into moment of laughter over what he is about to say in regards to Daniel Jackson. Composing himself, he continues. “There is a bit of some sort of romantic entanglement that happens there and Daniel kind of pushes that aside as well. Then in the episode right after it, which is “Bounty”, where a beautiful girl pretty much propositions Daniel point blank and he lets that go by too. The most annoying thing is I sort of go, ‘I’m not saying he’s light in the loafers, and I know people have been saying that for years, but I’m starting to wonder myself where they are going with this.’” Michael Shanks further explains that Joe Mallozzi, the writer who wrote that part of the episode, told him it confirms Daniel as the gay icon that he is or something like that.

“Does it make things look ambiguous about Daniel’s sexuality? Yes. But it’s certainly annoying to be playing the character and not know.” Shanks is waving his hands, palms up at the mystery of it all.

Ok, it's an interesting interview. I don't think MS is simply saying that because he turns down Vala, Adria and some woman in The Bounty that that makes Daniel gay. Perhaps he thinks that the writers would have had him show some sort of interest in a woman at this stage, given that the last one was what, Keira/Linea back in season 3? Maybe he thought they might have gone somewhere with it, I don't know, just speculating. Only MS himself or the writers can elaborate on that one.......

Not sure about the romantic entanglement with Adria though, does she try to seduce him or something? Maybe that happens while he's a prior or about to become one?

In any case the question? about his sexuality is probably academic anyway, I doubt even if they were considering addressing it, now that the show is being cancelled I'd be very suprised if anything happened in that direction, and I've been rambling on about nothing

[grasshopper64]

As for Daniel/Vala, I've written about my viewpoint on this a lot and I'm still very against the idea of them becoming romantically involved. For the most part with a couple exceptions, I don't particularly like what characteristics they bring out in each other and I think that would be even worse if they started dating (both Claudia and Michael have also said they don't think D/V would work as a romantic couple). I don't see Daniel as being particularly needy of a romantic relationship and I also think he has much more important things on his mind right now too. I've said it before but I don't get this constant pressure there is to pair up. Daniel has friends who love him, would do anything for him, and who have experienced so many things together some of which would make other people turn away. There are many people out there who don't even have that much and from what we know of Daniel's past, these last 10 years have provided him with a family that he'd been missing most of his life. I'd rather see them concentrating on showing the team's interactions in the little time we have left.

I also don't like the characteristics Daniel and Vala bring out in each other, as has been talked about, in various other threads, the amount of screen time they have had together has taken away from both Daniel and Vala interacting with the others, and the way that TPTB have pushed Daniel/Vala to the expense of the other characters. It's like they tried to make them into this comedy double act and in my opinion it's just out of place on Stargate. A little humour, yes, but not just standing around making smart comments. Hopefully in the second half of S10 we'll see a bit more balance.
And no shipping between anyone. Yes, Daniel certainly doesn't need to be in a relationship to be happy

[Maxum]

Welcome to the thread. I hope that you don't take offense to anything I said. This is all just my opinion. I know it is an unpopular one but I wanted to voice it anyway.

No offense taken at all. I don't have a problem with romance on a show, and I don't think it would take away from the team dynamic unless the writers center the show AROUND the romance. I don't think SG-1 has done that - even with Sam and Pete.

Also, Daniel actually struck me as slightly homophobic in the Prometheus Unbound episode. He turned white as a ghost when he thought the Super Soilder was coming on to him. "Whoa, whoa! Hey, big guy! I'm flattered, really - but you're just not my type. I'm a little more than concerned that I might be yours."

I agree that I don't need to see an all out romance on the show. It probably would take away from the team dynamic, but it would be nice if the writers gave Daniel even one kissing scene for crying out loud! I guess that's my biggest gripe. Give the guy a break. Daniel is the ONLY character on the show who never gets even one romantic scene, while Jack, Sam, and even Teal'c have some face time - so to speak.

Maybe it's the woman in me, but a romantic scene for Daniel - not an entire episode would be nice before I die.

[JessM]

What I don't like is constantly seeing those aspects of his character portrayed, or even the more pleasant aspects, if directed all towards Vala. If you stick Daniel with one person all the time, you miss different facets of his character. Because Daniel will (or should, if written correctly) act differently with Sam than he does with Vala, and how he acts with her is different than how he would be with Teal'c, and Mitchell, etc, etc. Because how they act, and their personalities would factor in to the dynamic. No big things where it would seem like Daniel has mulitple personalities, just subtle shadings which take into account the various relationships he has with all of them.

That is one of the biggest issues I have with it. I think it is important to get those different facets of his character.

[JessM]

Yep, definitely didn't mean literally! I like the Jack/Daniel dynamic far too much to want to lose that! I'm really looking forward to

Spoiler:

The Shroud in the hopes we get some really nice Jack/Daniel stuff

I agree I do think its great that Daniel gets to be the older brother who's irritated in a role reversal type of thing. *feels a fanfic idea coming on*

Same here.

Spoiler:

I'm really looking forward to that too, and it would be great to see some Jack/Daniel stuff for once.

[JessM]

No offense taken at all. I don't have a problem with romance on a show, and I don't think it would take away from the team dynamic unless the writers center the show AROUND the romance. I don't think SG-1 has done that - even with Sam and Pete.

I guess I don't have much faith in the writers to pull it off now. I think part of my viewpoint comes from the fact that they don't do good "team" shows anymore really. Back when Sam was with Pete, we didn't see it in every single episode. Pete only made occasional appearances. Vala is a regular on the show, and with the highlighting of Daniel/Vala in just about every episode this season, I think it would be a real possibility of taking away from the team dynamic.

I don't have a problem with romance on a show per se, I just don't watch this particular show for romance. I personally think that fanfic writers do romance a lot better than the show-runners. But that's just me.

Also, Daniel actually struck me as slightly homophobic in the Prometheus Unbound episode. He turned white as a ghost when he thought the Super Soilder was coming on to him. "Whoa, whoa! Hey, big guy! I'm flattered, really - but you're just not my type. I'm a little more than concerned that I might be yours."

lol... I'm not sure if I see it as slightly homophobic...definitely as being caught totally off guard by the comment.

I agree that I don't need to see an all out romance on the show. It probably would take away from the team dynamic, but it would be nice if the writers gave Daniel even one kissing scene for crying out loud! I guess that's my biggest gripe. Give the guy a break. Daniel is the ONLY character on the show who never gets even one romantic scene, while Jack, Sam, and even Teal'c have some face time - so to speak.

Maybe it's the woman in me, but a romantic scene for Daniel - not an entire episode would be nice before I die.

Hey I'm a woman too - and I can be a hopeless romantic sometimes, but I guess something odd happens to me when I watch Stargate and the whole romance idea goes out the window. I don't think it's totally true that Daniel has never had one romantic scene. He had quite a few with Sha're, one with Ke'ra (the former Destroyer of Worlds), even a few sort of romantic scenes with Sarah (I'd include Hathor, but it was totally non-consensual on Daniel's side). So he has had some - maybe not recently, but Sam and Teal'c and Jack haven't had any in a while either, at least since S8.

I am a totally "team" fan and team friendshipper, and I think I would really resent Daniel's character if they gave him a romance in a way that would make him withdraw from his friends. It would make him seem very selfish and I wouldn't know if I could respect him much. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this way, but I can't help it. Sorry.

[Callista]

lol... I'm not sure if I see it as slightly homophobic...definitely as being caught totally off guard by the comment.

Especially considering what those soldiers look like under the armor....I don't think Daniel's response would have been much different regardless of whether it was a male or female super-soldier