Daniel Jackson Discussion and Appreciation

[JessM]

COT spoilers

Spoiler:

I thought everyone seemed fairly casual for the situation. When they talked about it beforehand with Landry, there was no urgency (how did they even know that Sam was alive) from anyone -not just Daniel. And, on the ship, before Daniel and Vala went down to find out about the whatchamacalit on the Odyssey (sorry, I suck at names. Not just for people but for things) no one seemed to be that concerned. It seemed the general mood was that the emotional stuff was just for when Emerson died, but they didn't want to dwell on that.

I agree with what you and Callista said.

Spoiler:

I thought it was a bit odd how casual everyone seemed. Even when they were in the cargo hold or whatever it was, I half expected Daniel to maybe ask if Sam was okay. Even though Vala asked her how she was holding up and Sam said okay (or whatever she said), I thought maybe Daniel would have said "you sure?" or just given some indication that he was concerned - even a look. Nothing emotional or anything like that, but just ...I don't know, something. I'm probably dwelling on it too much...

[nyxlily]

COT spoilers. Hmm.. there appears to be a pattern here..

Spoiler:

Sometimes AT surprises me with how well she plays Carter. (I know, this is a Daniel thread! But I'm getting there..) The look in her eyes when they shot Emerson.. they were so sad. That alone set what I thought would be the tone of the episode. And it mostly was, except where Daniel/Vala was concerned. Oh, and the stupid alien-alien toward the end. Anyway, the rest of the story was pretty serious. I got the feeling that the writers, directors, and/or actors themselves chose to use Vala and Daniel as comedic relief. That might account to the frivolousness Daniel displayed throughout the whole episode. Although I had no problems with the part where Daniel sat in the command chair and his use of humor to diffuse the tension. And what Callista said in regard to the hostage situation makes sense. All in all though, Daniel was definitely used as the comic relief in this episode. Um, to me anyway.

[Dani347]

This probably goes better in the anti D/V thread, but

Spoiler:

Maybe that's the problem. Instead of seamlessly writing him as part of the stories, they have him and Vala having their own side story or side feel kind of stuck in there.

Er, it probably didn't need spoilers, but it was in response to nyxlily.

[JessM]

This probably goes better in the anti D/V thread, but

Spoiler:

Maybe that's the problem. Instead of seamlessly writing him as part of the stories, they have him and Vala having their own side story or side feel kind of stuck in there.

Er, it probably didn't need spoilers, but it was in response to nyxlily.

I think you're on to something there. Almost makes it sound like two separate shows or something...

[Pitry]

Not sure if you were replying to my post or not, but if you were...

Spoiler:

I didn't mind him goofing around a little, I just thought the snark was a bit TOO much. I don't think that we would have seen him react quite like that even back in S7. And I'm not sure if you also mean the scene were he and Vala were reunited with Sam. I hate the fact that everyone seems to ignore what she'd just been through, and I think it's so unlike Daniel to not show any amount of concern for any of his friends at any time... or is she no longer his friend?

Am I the only one bothered by this? Did I miss something akin to concern coming from him?

Of course if it wasn't me you were replying to... I'm sorry...

Oy - COT

Spoiler:

I actually meant the scene with Daniel and Marks, not before. I agree with everyone that there was a general lack of concern in the episode frmo all involved - other than Sam, who rocked. Maybe a bit Mitchell, jumping when they kill Emerson etc. Maybe they were afraid of not makign it lght hearted enough *rolls eyes*

[Maj_Cliffhanger]

I've slowly come to the opinion that the writers are afraid to take themselves too seriously. I know, they've always said that's one of the stringths of the show, that they don't take themselves seriously - but it's like they're afraid we wont' like it if they don't punch a joke in there once in a while. Sadly, for a story like COT it just comes across feeling forced and unnatural - they couldn't let the story just tell itself and rely on a few light hearted moments (Daniel and Vala with the trader) to carry the comic bits - they had to add bits to offset the darker moments - and it didn't work, IMHO. It detracted from the emotional impact of those scenes. The lack of real emotion/concern for each other in CoT is a huge fall out from this mindset. It's been a downward trend that way since season 9 - specifically 'Off the Grid' which just made me cringe with the lack of emotion. They were being tortured! Ho-hum! No fear, no concern, no worries... BLECK!

If the characters don't care, then why should I???

Jack O'Neill/RDA had a brilliant way of delivering lines such that they could make you laugh even if maybe the writer didn't intend them to be funny. It was in the nature of his character to be snarky. It is NOT in the nature of Daniel but the writers seem to be intent on giving him that kind of humor. Yes, I agree that Jack has definitely rubbed off on Daniel and he has taken on a more jaded and darker edge, but his humor is not the same as Jack's. He can't give a straight line a sarcastic twist and have it come off the same way - the writers know this so they 'write' funny lines for him, and frankly they are falling flat on their faces in the attempt and doing a serious disservice to Daniel. MS is doing the best with what he's been given but it's been boarderline out of charcter at times!

I just really wish that they would go back and look at the older seasons. There were so many times when so much was said with nothing more than a look - heart felt pain and worry to laugh out loud funny - and not a single word was needed. They can still do that. They just have to be willing to trust the story and let the actors do their jobs. 'Don't force an episode to be something it's not!

Rant over.

[Dani347]

I've slowly come to the opinion that the writers are afraid to take themselves too seriously. I know, they've always said that's one of the stringths of the show, that they don't take themselves seriously - but it's like they're afraid we wont' like it if they don't punch a joke in there once in a while.

When did this motto start? I mean, it certainly seemed like they took themselves seriously in many episodes in the earlier seasons. There were some funny episodes, there were funny moments in serious episodes, but it wasn't like you could see a sign flashing saying "HUMOR MOMENT!" They just blended in.

Jack O'Neill/RDA had a brilliant way of delivering lines such that they could make you laugh even if maybe the writer didn't intend them to be funny. It was in the nature of his character to be snarky. It is NOT in the nature of Daniel but the writers seem to be intent on giving him that kind of humor. Yes, I agree that Jack has definitely rubbed off on Daniel and he has taken on a more jaded and darker edge, but his humor is not the same as Jack's. He can't give a straight line a sarcastic twist and have it come off the same way - the writers know this so they 'write' funny lines for him, and frankly they are falling flat on their faces in the attempt and doing a serious disservice to Daniel. MS is doing the best with what he's been given but it's been boarderline out of charcter at times!

The only time that really struck me as blatantly ooc was COT. To me, Daniel is snarky, but his delivery is very different. His punches have always been gently delivered, so that you don't know that you've been hit. I'm not sure how to explain it. In COT

Spoiler:

Daniel just seemed too eager for Netan or whoever to know he was laughing at him. Big grin, this is funny.

I still think season 9 Daniel was very much himself. Especially Avalon and Prototype. I'd also say Morpheus and Pegasus Project.

Spoiler:

Interestingly, Daniel spent most of Morpheus away from Vala, and PP was a very serious episode for him and even though he was duct taped to Vala again, he spent more time interacting with Morgan le Fay

[Callista]

Um, Maj_Cliffhanger, I just greened you but I accidentally hit Enter when I was going for shift in the comment. I wanted to say "Good post, and I miss some of Daniel's subtle little looks too." (Sorry you're going to have to look at a rep comment that says something like "Goo" )
I'm thinking of instances like in Menace when Jack is messing around with the magnifying glass behind Daniel at the same time as Daniel is saying "It's like it has the mind of a child" about Reese but then he notices Jack and just gives him that withering look or when he says "Maybe he read your report" to Sam in Window of Opportunity" and then raises his eyebrows. To me, those moments are so much funnier than the out and out attempts at humor (I don't really know what to call it) because they could only come from Daniel and they don't make the situation seem any less serious.
I didn't really mind Prometheus Unbound, I thought it was funny as an episode that was different. (Sometimes when I'm feeling particularly frustrated, I act quite a lot differently than I normally would....it could go either towards anger or the absurd, probably depending on how much sleep I've had.) The problem to me comes when Daniel starts acting like that all the time. I would think by this time (OK, here come spoilers for Counterstrike and Pegasus Project and maybe more season 10):

Spoiler:

Daniel would be starting to get a bit worried. He's noticed the Ori seem to know him, probably from when he was ascended. He seems pretty sure the ancients aren't going to come bail him out. Adria told him right to his face that she had plans for him in particular. Surely he at the very least has a little voice in the back of his head telling him that something big is coming round the bend and he's going to be at the center of it and odds are he's NOT going to like it.

I could understand if he started getting grumpier right about now, like in COT when he

Spoiler:

was getting on Vala's case for getting a ship that was a "piece of junk"

It does seem odd, however that he would be getting sillier as the stakes (both to Earth/humanity and to himself) seem to be getting higher.

[Daniel's shadow]

The beauty of Daniel's character is that he is not one dimensional.

He can be serious and then go silly on you the next. A good example of this is in Pegasus Project.

Spoiler:

One minute he is shouting for Morgan Le Fey to show up and speak to him and the next he does this cute little wave to Weir along with a little childish and flippant "Hi"

.

He can be snarky and then he can be very gentle too. As we have seen in his relationships with his friends and colleagues.

This peacemaker of a man can also be a man who will do anything to protect a sentient lifeform (Menace) and yet he could advocate killing another (Prototype).

He can also be confident in leading a team/discussion/project (as Cam said in Ethon, it is his leadership that got them home) and all of the SGC personnel actually listens to him (for example in Arthur's Mantle where Daniel leads an investigation to find his missing teammates). Like all of us he can also feel overwhelmed and uncomfortable.

Spoiler:

Like in COT, can we actually feel comfortable sitting in the Big Chair if we are not promoted to it. I know MS has said it many times before that he does not want Daniel to be Mr.Macho and wants him to have the anxieties. Maybe it is the fact that Daniel is sitting on the Big Chair that brings out his insecurities. From what I can see he is more than knowledgable aound the various class ships (piloting and working the systems the Prometheus himself, giving orders like telling Chekov to open a channel on the Korolev.

All this makes up a very complex character which is a joy to see on screen.

Of course after 10 years I can definitely see which member of the show's writing team can interprete and write for the character better than others.

[JessM]

Oy - COT

Spoiler:

I actually meant the scene with Daniel and Marks, not before. I agree with everyone that there was a general lack of concern in the episode frmo all involved - other than Sam, who rocked. Maybe a bit Mitchell, jumping when they kill Emerson etc. Maybe they were afraid of not makign it lght hearted enough *rolls eyes*

Oh okay, I think I got confused...

Spoiler:

Yeah, Sam did rock. And I think you're right - they were off the mark with the way they tried to balance the emotional stuff with the light hearted moments.

[JessM]

I've slowly come to the opinion that the writers are afraid to take themselves too seriously. I know, they've always said that's one of the stringths of the show, that they don't take themselves seriously - but it's like they're afraid we wont' like it if they don't punch a joke in there once in a while. Sadly, for a story like COT it just comes across feeling forced and unnatural - they couldn't let the story just tell itself and rely on a few light hearted moments (Daniel and Vala with the trader) to carry the comic bits - they had to add bits to offset the darker moments - and it didn't work, IMHO. It detracted from the emotional impact of those scenes. The lack of real emotion/concern for each other in CoT is a huge fall out from this mindset. It's been a downward trend that way since season 9 - specifically 'Off the Grid' which just made me cringe with the lack of emotion. They were being tortured! Ho-hum! No fear, no concern, no worries... BLECK!

If the characters don't care, then why should I???

I feel the same way,Maj_C. They really seemed to miss the mark there and it did seem pretty forced. I almost forgot about Off the Grid, but you're right - the lack of emotion there didn't sit right with me. I guess the writers felt that the team had been in situations like this before and are used to it, thus no emotion needs to be shown. "Here we go again...well, we've been down this road before. No biggie."

Jack O'Neill/RDA had a brilliant way of delivering lines such that they could make you laugh even if maybe the writer didn't intend them to be funny. It was in the nature of his character to be snarky. It is NOT in the nature of Daniel but the writers seem to be intent on giving him that kind of humor. Yes, I agree that Jack has definitely rubbed off on Daniel and he has taken on a more jaded and darker edge, but his humor is not the same as Jack's. He can't give a straight line a sarcastic twist and have it come off the same way - the writers know this so they 'write' funny lines for him, and frankly they are falling flat on their faces in the attempt and doing a serious disservice to Daniel. MS is doing the best with what he's been given but it's been boarderline out of charcter at times!

Glad I'm not the only one who sees this. I heard people say that they're giving Daniel lines they'd give to Jack since he's no longer there and it makes up for it. But I think that does a disservice to his character. Daniel should not be a stand-in for Jack. He has his own brand of humor (which I like to think is a bit more subtle - not so "in your face" like Jack's was).

I just really wish that they would go back and look at the older seasons. There were so many times when so much was said with nothing more than a look - heart felt pain and worry to laugh out loud funny - and not a single word was needed. They can still do that. They just have to be willing to trust the story and let the actors do their jobs. 'Don't force an episode to be something it's not!

Rant over.

Well said.

[JessM]

When did this motto start? I mean, it certainly seemed like they took themselves seriously in many episodes in the earlier seasons. There were some funny episodes, there were funny moments in serious episodes, but it wasn't like you could see a sign flashing saying "HUMOR MOMENT!" They just blended in.

Exactly. The funny moments were in tune with the storyline and they didn't looked forced at all. I know there were quite a few in One False Step, for example: Jack's wisecracks about the "nude" aliens, Daniel's impression of a UAV, Teal'c attempting to smile, the awkward "apology" scene between Jack and Daniel in the infirmary where they're convinced something is physically wrong with them, only to have Janet tell them there's nothing physically wrong with them, etc....

The only time that really struck me as blatantly ooc was COT. To me, Daniel is snarky, but his delivery is very different. His punches have always been gently delivered, so that you don't know that you've been hit. I'm not sure how to explain it. In COT

Spoiler:

Daniel just seemed too eager for Netan or whoever to know he was laughing at him. Big grin, this is funny.

I still think season 9 Daniel was very much himself. Especially Avalon and Prototype. I'd also say Morpheus and Pegasus Project.

Spoiler:

Interestingly, Daniel spent most of Morpheus away from Vala, and PP was a very serious episode for him and even though he was duct taped to Vala again, he spent more time interacting with Morgan le Fay

Nailed it. Daniel's delivery has always been gentle and even subtle. I remember the scene from The Fifth Man where Tyler got away and Daniel said something sarcastic to Jack that he was too busy being unconscious from being zatted with the zat Jack gave him, or something like that... wish I could remember the exact quote. And of course the scene from Broca Divide when Jack tells Daniel that Sam seduced him. Daniel's "Oh. You poor man" line still cracks me up. Yeah, I know he has changed a lot since then, but I think it's a good example of his type of humor. I agree that Daniel was more himself in season 9 also, and we do see little glimmers of it this season in Morpheus and Pegasus Project like you said.

Spoiler:

Very interesting points about those two eps. So, Daniel is more himself when he is apart from Vala or interacting minimally with her. Hmmm....

[JessM]

I'm thinking of instances like in Menace when Jack is messing around with the magnifying glass behind Daniel at the same time as Daniel is saying "It's like it has the mind of a child" about Reese but then he notices Jack and just gives him that withering look or when he says "Maybe he read your report" to Sam in Window of Opportunity" and then raises his eyebrows. To me, those moments are so much funnier than the out and out attempts at humor (I don't really know what to call it) because they could only come from Daniel and they don't make the situation seem any less serious.

I know what you mean. I think there was a similar scene in Summit when Jacob was explaining about the symbiote poison and what it does. Daniel didn't understand I guess that it would just kill the symbiotes, so he said something like "So I guess I'm supposed to hold my breath, or...?" and he does the raised eyebrows thing. It's subtle.

I didn't really mind Prometheus Unbound, I thought it was funny as an episode that was different. (Sometimes when I'm feeling particularly frustrated, I act quite a lot differently than I normally would....it could go either towards anger or the absurd, probably depending on how much sleep I've had.) The problem to me comes when Daniel starts acting like that all the time. I would think by this time (OK, here come spoilers for Counterstrike and Pegasus Project and maybe more season 10):

Spoiler:

Daniel would be starting to get a bit worried. He's noticed the Ori seem to know him, probably from when he was ascended. He seems pretty sure the ancients aren't going to come bail him out. Adria told him right to his face that she had plans for him in particular. Surely he at the very least has a little voice in the back of his head telling him that something big is coming round the bend and he's going to be at the center of it and odds are he's NOT going to like it.

I could understand if he started getting grumpier right about now, like in COT when he

Spoiler:

was getting on Vala's case for getting a ship that was a "piece of junk"

It does seem odd, however that he would be getting sillier as the stakes (both to Earth/humanity and to himself) seem to be getting higher.

Agreed. That is what the problem is for me too, when he acts that way constantly. It's interesting about the spoilers, I agree that I'd see him starting to get worried. Maybe they (the writers) think that he's trying to cope with it by being silly but I just don't see Daniel doing that, or at least doing it very often anyway.

[Pitry]

Agreed. That is what the problem is for me too, when he acts that way constantly. It's interesting about the spoilers, I agree that I'd see him starting to get worried. Maybe they (the writers) think that he's trying to cope with it by being silly but I just don't see Daniel doing that, or at least doing it very often anyway.

Interesting. Maybe you're right - but what if Daniel's way of dealing with all these worries is to try and dismiss them and other worries that come along with them? Can a person really function when all of this constantly weighs heavily on his mind?
This pattern of behaviour started for Daniel, I feel, in season 7 - this could jsut be his coping mechanism.

[Sam_Carter]

I just uploaded a Daniel Jackson tribute music video to youtube if anyone wants to take a looksie...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gq8TBdq8QU

Its set to '4am Forever' by Lostprophets and about what SG1 went through when he died.

I hope you like it!