Daniel Jackson Discussion and Appreciation

[GateWarrior]

I'm half-cheesehead. Does that count?

That depends. Is the good half, or the evil half?

[Captain-Peregrine]

That depends. Is the good half, or the evil half?

MMMMWWWWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

*cough* I mean, the good half...of course.

[Dani347]

Page 4??? That's just wrong. I'll just say I'm loving Daniel in the new episodes. No spoilers, but that giddy "child of the universe" who just gets all excited with learning and discovering is back with a vengance. Lets hope it lasts.

[Madeleine]

Jolly good! Is it October yet?

:: Checks watch ::

Grrrr.

[Gargen]

well personally if he were gone as well as jack and sam i would pretty much stop watching sg-1 they have killed off or removed in some other way or limited almost every character ive ever liked (damn writers)

[Katerine]

It's the ascension arc for me. That whole, wonderful through-line that started with opening the Stargate and carried through Sha're to Shifu to Oma and upwards and back again and now forward - the "little orphan in the big universe" story.

It has that little touch of destiny about it that I love so much.

And yet it's so simply and utterly Daniel: The journey may be universal, but the path is uniquely his. Like the best universal stories, it forges a connection, a bond, with the individual and then reaches, hand-in-hand, for the stars.

Daniel's story touches on so many pages from my scrapbook, from the poster that hung on the back of my bedroom door when I was in high school -


A. Understand that change begins with the individual.
B. Understand the power of a single action.
C. AND YOU ARE HERE

- to the first time my cosy little Presbyterian worldview was confronted with the idea that "the people are the Messiah, I, you, every one of us," to that night we parked the motor home in downtown Toronto and squeezed into the back of the Opera House to hear Mike Scott sing, from the bottom of his toes through his belly over the dancing crowd and out the door into wherever:

"I sighed
...but you SWOONED!
I saw the crescent,
You saw the whole of the moon."

Variations on an ideal that catches me up by the back of the neck time and time again, that rings so true and seems so simple and can be so bloody hard to live by.

And Daniel does it, and has the grace not to make it look easy, bless him.

Wow. I just wanted to express my appreciation for this post - I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said here, and you expressed it so well!

But then, you always do. I'm so jealous...

And now, for the real reason I'm posting...

As many of you know, there's a tournament going on. Yes, that one. The "Last Man Standing" competition where you vote off one episode a day. The one I'm running.

The reason I'm posting in here is that, every day for the last couple of months, people have been posting updates and "please come vote" posts in the Sam appreciation thread. It's gotten to the point where every Sam fan and Sam/Jack shipper is voting in the tournament. Which is great, but, well, not that I don't like Sam, but...

Speaking as a Daniel fan, I really don't want to see Forever in a Day or Absolute Power or Scorched Earth or Meridian or Maternal Instinct get the axe. All of these have been getting votes, and more. The Gamekeeper, Enemy Mine, Beast of Burden, and The Light have already gotten the axe.

Speaking as the person running the tournament - the whole point of the tournament is to get a list of which episodes are best overall, according to the opinions of a representative subset of the fandom. If all of the Sam fans are voting, but only about 1/6 of the Daniel fans are voting, this skews everything!

So, please come participate? I promise, it's fun! I also promise the first time's the hardest - after that, it's just a matter of editing your votes from the day before

To vote, follow the link in my sig and read the FAQ. The short version of the FAQ is this: the first post in the thread lists which eps have already gotten the axe, and which episodes remain. Of the eps remaining, pick your 8 least favorite (the eps you most want to get the axe).
Do not vote for eps that have already gotten the axe.
Do not vote for the same ep more than once per round.
Do not vote for any season 8 eps (the tournament is just seasons 1-7).
If you do any of those three things, then I can't count your post for that round. In the next round, repeat (if an ep on your list got the axe, remove it from your list and replace it with another from the list of eps remaining).

Come! Participate! Please! I really, really would like a representative group participating in the tournament!

Many thanks!

[Tucker Case]

I'll just say I'm loving Daniel in the new episodes. No spoilers, but that giddy "child of the universe" who just gets all excited with learning and discovering is back with a vengance. Lets hope it lasts.

Two episodes down, averaging one

Spoiler:

"I have no idea"

apiece. I don't think we could possibly be more solidly on track than that.

Or maybe we could.

Spoiler:

“Well, that figures: Room full of gold and jewels and Dr. Daniel Jackson finds the one book.”

Yeah, that just might do it one better.

He's baa-aack - and he's grown. There's a sureness about our Daniel, his experience is showing, it just hasn't taken any of the wonder out of him, or inured him to surprises. He hasn't reminded me this much of "movie Daniel" in years, but he's sooo much more comfortable in his own skin at the same time - and that's a neat trick.

I wonder if perspective doesn't have something to do with this.

Not everything - Michael's layered these aspects so deftly, shifts the angles and dimensions so fluidly, that's his doing, no one else's - but something.

I am loving seeing Daniel through Mitchell's eyes - especially in 'Avalon 2.' They didn't interact a whole lot, but what there was between them was priceless. While I thoroughly enjoyed Mitchell's

Spoiler:

excited fanboy attitude towards Daniel in Part One - he had me at, “See! That is what I’m talking about!” - that’s really no basis for an ongoing, evolving relationship between two characters, and it was so heartening, in Part Two, to see Mitchell becoming acquainted with the "man behind the myth."

I think this was most neatly and astutely played in the scene with

Spoiler:

the book. It started out in much the same vein as the “That is what I’m talking about!” scene from Part One, with the legendary “Dr. Daniel Jackson” living up to his advance billing, and all of Mitchell’s expectations, by finding the one book in a room full of treasure. But the face pouring and beaming over that book was that of no larger-than-life SGC legend, but rather that of any boy who’s ever burrowed into the bed-sheets with a flashlight and The Chronicles of Narnia. And it was that child of wonder – and not the fabled genius geek – that Mitchell next spoke to, surprising Daniel, I think, with his genuine interest in what he was reading.

I don’t think Daniel was expecting that.

Spoiler:

He didn’t respond to Mitchell’s initial comment. When asked what the book was about, he simply said it was a story, a fiction, and continued reading to himself. Mitchell had to prompt him – "Once upon a time…?" – before it even occurred to him that this man cared about the book, or Daniel’s simple enjoyment in it, at all. And if that wasn't enough, Mitchell actually listened, was able to pick up on Daniel's train of thought and ride it to its conclusion when Daniel prompted him.

Very cool.

Just as nifty was Mitchell's full-on appreciation of Daniel at his

Spoiler:

sulkiest, snarkiest, most fractious and put-upon. "You gonna' dine out on that (missing the Daedalus) for awhile?" "Like you wouldn't believe." Seen it, noted it, assimilated it into his overall "Dr. Daniel Jackson" schema, embraced it.

I like that, too (and I like Mitchell, a lot). It's the little things, y'know?

Okay, okay, it's the bigger things, too.

Well, bigger circumstances, anyway. Still our little Daniel, in yet more aspects, only Vala was the one treated to them. She got

Spoiler:

adaptable, unflappable, self-possessed Daniel, strolling through the village, making new “friends,” turning the little cottage inside-out in his non-stop quest for answers, and using his own brand of humour – off-hand and often self-deprecating – in order to see himself through. His flip encapsulation of the Ori creed – “Prostration for six hours (peeks under bed), give us strength (pops back up again), it’s all very clear” – might just have been the funniest thing in the whole episode (although Vala’s inspired excuse for missing tea with the administrator’s wife – “I…forgot!” – was a close second).

And, of course, there was that scene.

I hear we didn’t quite get the “director’s cut” on that one and, to be honest, I’m glad of it. It’s wonderful the way it is and

Spoiler:

Michael and Claudia were wonderful in it, in perfect synch with each other throughout, working in as much humour as they could, as far as they could, which worked as a mask of defiance, pluck and bravado for her, and dovetailed into some barely contained hysterics for him – that lunatic “Whoo!” was perfection – before he gave way to fury and desperation and, finally, despair, as she went up in flames. And what a perfect turn from Michael in the aftermath, as Daniel – in shock, bereft and utterly lost – was the picture of compassion and quiet dignity, turning what could have been a moment of horror of the purely grisly, shocking, jaw-dropping, “Ugh, oh, I can’t believe they did that!” kind, into a moment of horror of the perfectly tragic, human and heart-rending kind.

Everything came together in those seconds: The sprawling, overhead shots pulling in close to focus on Daniel, until he was the shot; the choral music reaching its crescendo and then splintering into that spare and haunted piano line; and then Michael, so very small and spent in the midst of it all, and devastatingly gentle. And, sweet Jesus, the look on his face when first he turned to face the Prior was that of a man who could either shatter completely in his next breath or tear the spleen out of the next person to breathe on him. Fierce, frail, magnificent – and so perfectly, typically Daniel as Vala was returned to life in his arms and the wonder of it was utterly secondary to his concern for her: A touch on her cheek, a whispered “You okay?” and a solemn “Thank you” as he held her for as long as she needed.

*le sigh*

Okay, I have to admit there was at least one part of me thinking,

Spoiler:

“Aww, it ‘s her first resurrection. They can swap horrific death stories now – ‘I’ll see your immolation and raise you one radiation poisoning’ – like Mel Gibson and Rene Russo comparing scars in ‘Lethal Weapon 3.’”

The thought was fleeting.

And Joe Mallozzi says Michael's best is yet to come in 'Origin?'

"Give us strength," indeed.

Good grief. This thing is going to be one big spoiler space, isn't it. Why do I have the feeling I'll be "invisible" for, like, the next eight months or so?

Tucker

[Tucker Case]

Wow. I just wanted to express my appreciation for this post - I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said here, and you expressed it so well!

Thank you.

The reason I'm posting in here is that, every day for the last couple of months, people have been posting updates and "please come vote" posts in the Sam appreciation thread. It's gotten to the point where every Sam fan and Sam/Jack shipper is voting in the tournament. Which is great, but, well, not that I don't like Sam, but...Speaking as the person running the tournament - the whole point of the tournament is to get a list of which episodes are best overall, according to the opinions of a representative subset of the fandom. If all of the Sam fans are voting, but only about 1/6 of the Daniel fans are voting, this skews everything!

It does, yes.

Unfortunately, it isn't likely to become "unskewed" even if every Daniel fan on the forum joins the vote - not unless you want to advocate the same sort of strategic block-voting the shippers are advocating (collectively zeroing in on "vulnerable" episodes to secure a "save" for 'D & C,' and targeting Daniel episodes for sport).

The only way to counter that sort of thing is for the Daniel fans (or whoever) to play by the same "rules," and I don't think you want that. The results won't be any less skewed. It'll simply turn into an exercise in "Us v. Them" between the Daniel and Sam fans.

So, please come participate? I promise, it's fun!

Well, it was, when you could just vote for the episodes you sincerely disliked and that was that.

As it is now, I'm more inclined to ask myself, "What would Daniel do?"

And further contributing to turning a fun little exercise into a battle of the fan factions probably isn't it.

Tucker

[Dani347]

spoiler]

I think this was most neatly and astutely played in the scene with

Spoiler:

the book. It started out in much the same vein as the “That is what I’m talking about!” scene from Part One, with the legendary “Dr. Daniel Jackson” living up to his advance billing, and all of Mitchell’s expectations, by finding the one book in a room full of treasure. But the face pouring and beaming over that book was that of no larger-than-life SGC legend, but rather that of any boy who’s ever burrowed into the bed-sheets with a flashlight and The Chronicles of Narnia. And it was that child of wonder – and not the fabled genius geek – that Mitchell next spoke to, surprising Daniel, I think, with his genuine interest in what he was reading.

Spoiler:

He didn’t respond to Mitchell’s initial comment. When asked what the book was about, he simply said it was a story, a fiction, and continued reading to himself. Mitchell had to prompt him – "Once upon a time…?" – before it even occurred to him that this man cared about the book, or Daniel’s simple enjoyment in it, at all. And if that wasn't enough, Mitchell actually listened, was able to pick up on Daniel's train of thought and ride it to its conclusion when Daniel prompted him.

Very cool.

Spoiler:

Yes, I loved this. You put it very well, that there's not much more I can say. And, something I hadn't really processed until you described him as similar to a little boy reading about Narnia. When he was sitting there, reading and grinning over the book, he hadn't gotten to the point where it all clicked in that this was about the Ancients and stargates, and all that. He was just enjoying the story (although I'm sure he knew it was a factual book written like fiction) for itself. And, really enjoying it too. And, I also like Mitchell's interaction with him.

Spoiler:

Michael and Claudia were wonderful in it, in perfect synch with each other throughout, working in as much humour as they could, as far as they could, which worked as a mask of defiance, pluck and bravado for her, and dovetailed into some barely contained hysterics for him – that lunatic “Whoo!” was perfection – before he gave way to fury and desperation and, finally, despair, as she went up in flames. And what a perfect turn from Michael in the aftermath, as Daniel – in shock, bereft and utterly lost – was the picture of compassion and quiet dignity, turning what could have been a moment of horror of the purely grisly, shocking, jaw-dropping, “Ugh, oh, I can’t believe they did that!” kind, into a moment of horror of the perfectly tragic, human and heart-rending kind.

Everything came together in those seconds: The sprawling, overhead shots pulling in close to focus on Daniel, until he was the shot; the choral music reaching its crescendo and then splintering into that spare and haunted piano line; and then Michael, so very small and spent in the midst of it all, and devastatingly gentle. And, sweet Jesus, the look on his face when first he turned to face the Prior was that of a man who could either shatter completely in his next breath or tear the spleen out of the next person to breathe on him. Fierce, frail, magnificent – and so perfectly, typically Daniel as Vala was returned to life in his arms and the wonder of it was utterly secondary to his concern for her: A touch on her cheek, a whispered “You okay?” and a solemn “Thank you” as he held her for as long as she needed.

Spoiler:

Oh, man. The acting in just the last part when he cradled Vala was just heartbreaking. I also thought that it was funny when Vala was explaining exactly what she had said to get her into trouble, Daniel's shocked "Ohh!" when he heard the procreation comment. And, then, the desperation. "We just want to talk to you!" And, CB was great, too. Something else I just thought of. Usually, it's Daniel waking up, (or being brought back to life) and calling "Jack?" sort of as a lifeline and a way to orientate himself. This time, it was Vala calling for him. He's not usually in that position. And, she also did a great job showing Vala's strength and vulnerability in that scene, joking but crying at the same time.

*le sigh*

Exactly
Okay, I have to admit there was at least one part of me thinking,

Spoiler:

“Aww, it ‘s her first resurrection. They can swap horrific death stories now – ‘I’ll see your immolation and raise you one radiation poisoning’ – like Mel Gibson and Rene Russo comparing scars in ‘Lethal Weapon 3.’”

The thought was fleeting.

Now, you have it stuck in my head

And Joe Mallozzi says Michael's best is yet to come in 'Origin?'

It hardly seems possible, does it? Is it Friday,yet?

[Tucker Case]

Spoiler:

And, I also like Mitchell's interaction with him.

I think I'm going to like them a lot. And, seriously, full marks to Ben Browder here. You can really see Mitchell's brain clicking along through these little encounters, he's wonderfully attentive without being conspicuous or obvious about it. It's some terrifically nuanced work.

And it ain't Jack/Daniel Mk. II, and I'm going to have to kiss up and thank the writing for that. I wouldn't have believed they'd take this approach to Daniel/Cameron if I weren't seeing it with my own two eyes - to be honest, I hadn't even thought of it. It's not just that it's clever, either, but it's unique to Daniel. The writing's managed to individualise

Spoiler:

Mitchell's fanboy attitude to each member of SG-1. He's built them up differently in his own mind. He's looking to Sam as a touchstone, someone who can show him the ropes and keep him out of trouble. His "idea" of Tea'c I haven't quite pinned down, but it's something approaching kinsmanship (although that just might be me responding to his casually calling Teal'c "brother" in Part One) and likemindedness, and thus it's the lack of instant rapport that's confounding him a little. Daniel, though, he's envisaged, almost romanticised, as this eccentric miracle-worker - he seemed to expect nothing less than Daniel working some kind of magic with the tablet...which, of course, Daniel proceeded to do.

So, where Jack's trajectory with Daniel started at "dweeb" and "pain in the ass" and worked upwards from there to wondrous and worth it - and friend - Mitchell

Spoiler:

is coming in from the other side. He's imprinted "way cool and worth it, worth it, worth it" and is acquainting himself with the rest as the joyride zooms along.

More than just a sweet approach, though, I actually think it needed doing. As much as it made sense for Hammond, and then Jack, to start ceding to Daniel in recent seasons - after everything he'd accomplished, everything they'd seen him do and knew him capable of - things were getting too easy for him, and he was beginning to take on a rather saintly aspect. They really needed to dial back from that, and this is a terrific way to

Spoiler:

acknowledge Daniel's more "magical" qualities while bringing his humanising qualities more clearly to the fore, reminding us that he can be distracted to the point of rudeness, that he is very childlike in some ways, and that he can snark like of a son-of-a-gun and milk a grievance for all its worth.

It gives Michael a chance to give us full-court Daniel as well, which is always a plus.

And, CB was great, too.

She was, wasn't she? On first viewing, I thought she

Spoiler:

oversold the "tingles" line but, no, she didn't. It was exactly right. Vala was wrenching her defences back into place, which isn't at all an easy task, under the circumstances, and shouldn't have sounded that way. The effort was hers, and CB nailed it. It's extraordinary enough, when you think on it, that Vala actually admitted - however jokingly - that she was not okay. "Tingles" might be an understatement, but it's a statement nonetheless, and coming from her it was pretty huge.

Something else I just thought of.

Spoiler:

Usually, it's Daniel waking up, (or being brought back to life) and calling "Jack?" sort of as a lifeline and a way to orientate himself. This time, it was Vala calling for him. He's not usually in that position.

Ooh, I hadn't picked up on that one at all.

It’s another nice reversal, and kind of fitting. Michael did say that the Daniel/Vala dynamic would hark back to the old Jack/Daniel vibe, which it does, after a fashion, only

Spoiler:

in this case, it’s Vala who is the more impulsive and childlike – if not childish – one. She’s the one shaking up Daniel’s equilibrium and, difficult as it is to imagine, could actually prove to be the bigger trouble magnet. She’s got to be at least his equal on that score, scary as that thought may be. It makes sense that he would be her lifeline. Of course, the truly neat thing is, that they’re so differently impulsive – their impulses being so different, and all – that they should be able to flip-flop in this respect, with Daniel’s own peculiar brand of waywardness leading him/them into whole other worlds of trouble, where she becomes the “rock,” relatively speaking.

Speaking of Daniel’s more reckless tendencies, whatever happened to:

Spoiler:

”When the excavation crew uncovers the device, Daniel, ever eager to uncover the secrets of the Ancients and excited by the possibility of visiting galaxies beyond the realm of the Stargates, decides at once to test the machine,”

as originally described in the plot synopsis for this episode? Between that and Michael’s recent comments, in interviews, about

Spoiler:

Daniel "open(ing) the Pandora's box" that tips the Ori off to this galaxy's existence,

I was expecting something quite different from what we got.

Tucker

You know things have gotten truly out of hand when you have to hit 'Preview Post' eight times - and edit accordingly - to get your frelling tags right.

[Captain-Peregrine]

I have to say, I love the relationship between Vala and Daniel--as disfuctional as it may be. And I think that Mitchell and Daniel are also going to have a great relationship--hopefully not as disfuctional. lol I am really excited to see where all this goes!

[LMichelle]

Even though Daniel and Vala are so much different, they do work well together and have seemed to temper the insults down a bit. I'm sure Mitchell must feel like he's a referee sometimes.

I like Daniel and Vala and am anxious to see where their relationship is headed. I think Daniel likes Vala more than he's willing to admit to himself.

[Captain-Peregrine]

I think Daniel likes Vala more than he's willing to admit to himself.

Oh, I totally think so, too. But, then again, he's such a nice guy that I think he just can't help it. lol But it was touching in the end of Avatar part 2. Poor Daniel--though poorer Vala! I am wondering what will come of THAT little incident.

[SueS]

Speaking of Daniel’s more reckless tendencies, whatever happened to:

Spoiler:

”When the excavation crew uncovers the device, Daniel, ever eager to uncover the secrets of the Ancients and excited by the possibility of visiting galaxies beyond the realm of the Stargates, decides at once to test the machine,”

as originally described in the plot synopsis for this episode? Between that and Michael’s recent comments, in interviews, about

Spoiler:

Daniel "open(ing) the Pandora's box" that tips the Ori off to this galaxy's existence,

I was expecting something quite different from what we got.

It was a bit different from what the spoilers said. However, Daniel was definitely eager to be the first one to try the device. The difference is that he did it with approval, as opposed to sneaking off on his own and using it (which is the impression I had from reading the spoilers.)

Also, regarding

Spoiler:

Daniel "open(ing) the Pandora's box" that tips the Ori off to this galaxy's existence," I have a feeling that "Pandora's box" will be open in Origin when Daniel, ever eager to meet new civilizations will tell the Ori all about Earth ... before he realizes just how evil they are.

SueS

[Tucker Case]

Also, regarding

Spoiler:

Daniel "open(ing) the Pandora's box" that tips the Ori off to this galaxy's existence," I have a feeling that "Pandora's box" will be open in Origin when Daniel, ever eager to meet new civilizations will tell the Ori all about Earth ... before he realizes just how evil they are.

I'm expecting that will be the case as well. But, again,

Spoiler:

he's doing it with approval, really. They knew they were dealing with a communication device - Daniel, Dr. Lee, Mitchell, General Landry - and the okay was obviously given to "go forth and communicate." Daniel was ever eager, and will certainly feel all kinds of awful when he realises how evil the Ori are, but the whole context is still very different from what the synopsis implied.

It lacks the heedlessness I was looking for, based on what I read here.

I suppose, in some ways, I should be glad. And, to a certain extent, I am. But I hope that whatever it is, specifically, that Daniel

Spoiler:

is going to feel guilty about is enough to truly tie him to this galaxy, and that they don't have him beating himself up over doing exactly what he was supposed to do as a convenient excuse for having him shift his priorities from Atlantis to the SGC. He needs a hook.

The practical one is there - General Landry now has legitimate cause to declare that the world's foremost expert on the Ancients is more needed here than anywhere else - but I'd like an emotional one, too.

I'd like this to be personal (and in a way that doesn't feel contrived).

Hey, I like angst - Daniel angst most of all.

Tucker