Team discussion thread

[Petra]

That is too cute.

The triplets never choose to watch season 6 unless it is Full Circle (cool Pyramid explosion and Anubis) or Sight Unseen (which they find funny). They don't dislike Jonas, but they find the stories uninteresting and don't like Jack acting 'so serious'. I think they would like The Changling, but they haven't seen it yet, and they aren't allowed to watch The Abyys because of the torture.

They are about to turn 8.

You know, there is something in it. I know that a lot of people believe season 6 is the beginning of the "silly/dumb Jack" but for the life of me I can't see it. IMO it's the season when Jack's a little dark, a little introspective, totally focused on his work - he wasn't quite this quiet and serious in previous seasons; he certainly wasn't later. Personally I tend to think it's the aftermath of "Abyss"; he's still trying to come to terms with what happened to him and to forget about it, so he throws himself in his work. It's the season when we see more often his true intelligence and skills, because his walls aren't back up yet and he slips from time to time letting us know how deeply he cares.
By the time Daniel comes back, however, Jack managed to put the whole experience behind him - or rather convinced himself that he had put it behind him - his defences are up again and he's determined to not let himself be hurt like this again - hence the "I don't care" attitude and "I'm really dumb" mask. Anyway, that my take on this, which allows me to tolerate some of his silliness in later seasons.

[Callista]

You know, there is something in it. I know that a lot of people believe season 6 is the beginning of the "silly/dumb Jack" but for the life of me I can't see it. IMO it's the season when Jack's a little dark, a little introspective, totally focused on his work - he wasn't quite this quiet and serious in previous seasons; he certainly wasn't later. Personally I tend to think it's the aftermath of "Abyss"; he's still trying to come to terms with what happened to him and to forget about it, so he throws himself in his work. It's the season when we see more often his true intelligence and skills, because his walls aren't back up yet and he slips from time to time letting us know how deeply he cares.
By the time Daniel comes back, however, Jack managed to put the whole experience behind him - or rather convinced himself that he had put it behind him - his defences are up again and he's determined to not let himself be hurt like this again - hence the "I don't care" attitude and "I'm really dumb" mask. Anyway, that my take on this, which allows me to tolerate some of his silliness in later seasons.

In addition to what happened in Abyss, I would think Jack would also have a hard time coming to terms with having had a symbiote in him and apparently completely controlling him and the fact that he actually agreed to it in order to save his own life.

He made a couple of big decisions there at the beginning of the season and right on the heels of losing Daniel at that. First he made the big decision to let Daniel go, believing I guess that Daniel would be better off ascended than living in whatever way Jacob would be able to achieve and that regardless, it was Daniel's decision to make. Then he had to deal with accepting a guy whose people were responsible for Daniel's death. Then he had to make a big decision as to which was better, dying or facing the thing he hates and seems to be scared of the most - having a symbiote put in him, and he chose the symbiote. Then immediately he has to deal with having been controlled and betrayed by that symbiote, getting tortured, sarcophagus issues and again facing a big decision as to which was better, dying little by little and losing his soul, flat-out dying, or facing a huge unknown and going with Daniel, and he chose dying.

I think I'd be grumpy, too!! I'm kind of surprised that they never showed him having to go to counseling or something. Those are some pretty big philosophical choices to have dealt with so close together. Maybe he learned things about himself. Maybe even more questions that he's having a difficult time with were raised in his mind. I wouldn't have minded a scene somewhere in this season between him and Sam talking about their experiences with Tok'ras taking over. At the end of In the Line of Duty, Sam was obviously very shook up by the experience and I'd guess she could help him come to terms with his similar experience.

As to how he behaves later, I'm more bothered from a viewer's point of view rather than looking at it from the character's point of view.
Really, the main problem I have with his silliness later is that it kind of destroys all the tension all the other characters, story, and even the music manage to build up in some episodes. Here everyone is acting all upset and the music is thrumming away and giant spaceships are coming and I'm really getting into it and then Jack will say something that totally tears all that down and I'm just sitting there watching TV again. I don't know if any of you ever watched "Moonlighting", but it's kind of similar to when Bruce Willis would be chasing a guy and then all of the sudden he'd turn around and crack some joke directly to the camera. It was funny and surprising a couple of times, and then it got just plain annoying and I quit watching because if the character doesn't care what's happening (let alone knows that he's not a real person....now we're getting into Woody Allen territory ), why should I? Though, strangely enough, I loved 200. I guess if a whole episode is outside the fantasy it's fine, but if there are little holes in the midst of the fantasy I don't like it.

[Khentkawes]

You know, there is something in it. I know that a lot of people believe season 6 is the beginning of the "silly/dumb Jack" but for the life of me I can't see it. IMO it's the season when Jack's a little dark, a little introspective, totally focused on his work - he wasn't quite this quiet and serious in previous seasons; he certainly wasn't later.

I agree with you. Jack is both serious and quieter this season. I'm one of those fans that does roll my eyes at Jack's antics more often in later seasons... but not in this season because he's pretty serious most of the way through. For me, stupid-comment-Jack begins to appear periodically in season 7... actually, I guess that's not true. I saw it periodically as early as season 4. I think sometimes they just tried to play Jack as too funny and humor at inappropriate times is not always funny (as Callista points out above). So I guess some Jack humor moments just don't work for me.

There's one quote that I always identify as quintessential stupid-comment-Jack (for me, anyway, I'm sure some of you thought it was a funny line). It's the one were some villagers or someone asks if Teal'c is a Jaffa and Jack says "No, but he plays one on TV." I roll my eyes every time. Why would anyone say that in real life? That one line rips me out of the story every single time I hear it, consequently making me cringe. Now, can anyone tell me what episode that's from? because I thought it was in season 7, but now I can't remember.

Okay, I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming, and will return after watching Prophecy.

[Callista]

I agree with you. Jack is both serious and quieter this season. I'm one of those fans that does roll my eyes at Jack's antics more often in later seasons... but not in this season because he's pretty serious most of the way through. For me, stupid-comment-Jack begins to appear periodically in season 7... actually, I guess that's not true. I saw it periodically as early as season 4. I think sometimes they just tried to play Jack as too funny and humor at inappropriate times is not always funny (as Callista points out above). So I guess some Jack humor moments just don't work for me.

There's one quote that I always identify as quintessential stupid-comment-Jack (for me, anyway, I'm sure some of you thought it was a funny line). It's the one were some villagers or someone asks if Teal'c is a Jaffa and Jack says "No, but he plays one on TV." I roll my eyes every time. Why would anyone say that in real life? That one line rips me out of the story every single time I hear it, consequently making me cringe. Now, can anyone tell me what episode that's from? because I thought it was in season 7, but now I can't remember.

Okay, I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming, and will return after watching Prophecy.

I agree that that is one of those lines that takes the viewer out of the fantasy even if I do occasionally say that myself. Did you know where that comes from? (I don't know how old some of you guys are.) There used to be an ad on TV where a guy is selling some sort of medication and he is a soap opera actor who plays a doctor so the ad starts with: "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV." and then he goes on to recommend this medication as if he actually was a doctor.

The funny thing is that the actor doing the ad actually played Dr. Rick Webber on General Hospital who was the brother of Dr. Jeff Webber who was played by none other than our good friend Richard Dean Anderson.

Edit ^ OMG, that's not right! All these years I remembered that as being Rick Webber but it was actually some guy from The Young and The Restless. Dang. Now that line isn't as funny as I always thought it was. Another illusion destroyed.

Edit again!
From wiki:

Bergman parlayed this success into a very successful Vicks Formula 44 cough syrup advertising campaign starting in 1986, in which he told the viewing audience, "I’m not a doctor, but I play one on TV." Chris Robinson, who played Dr. Rick Webber on ABC's General Hospital, also shares this same distinction.

They both did it! Whew!!

[resurgamlaura]

Khentkawes- you're thinking of the scene on the planet in 'Fallen', which is the first ep of S7

[Khentkawes]

I agree that that is one of those lines that takes the viewer out of the fantasy even if I do occasionally say that myself. Did you know where that comes from? (I don't know how old some of you guys are.) There used to be an ad on TV where a guy is selling some sort of medication and he is a soap opera actor who plays a doctor so the ad starts with: "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV." and then he goes on to recommend this medication as if he actually was a doctor.
<snip>

LOL! (regarding your many edits) Now that you mention it, I'd heard about the commercial, but I'm pretty sure it's before my time.

Khentkawes- you're thinking of the scene on the planet in 'Fallen', which is the first ep of S7

Thank you!
And now I realize that this was a comment I could have saved for a little while, as we'll be discussing that episode soon enough anyway. *facepalm*

[jckfan55]

I'm going to take the lazy way and use your comments...

:

To be honest I can't quite decide if it is a team episode, or not. It's obviously Jonas episode (finally) and the team is divided, but there are many little moments and overall concern for Jonas which gives Prophecy this teamy feeling..

I would agree. That and the concern for Jack and Teal'c after Jonas' vision about the ambush.

I think that the idea of the episode was clever. It's nice to see Stargate touching upon such serious, complicated matters like whether our future really is predetermined or can we change it? I think this episode gives us an optimistic answer, and I like it, as I like the inclusion of the "real" science's take on the issue (although I have no idea whether it is correct or not).

I really like Jonas here, and CN is excellent. This is an episode which shows us how much Jonas has changed during the year. When we met him, when he witnessed Daniel's sacrifice, he froze. Couldn't make up his mind what to do. Here, he doesn't hesitate. He feels his new abilities can help others, and this is all he can think of, he doesn't care what happens to him. He's selfless and courageous, and yet he still doubts himself and still feels unworthy. It's a real shame he was gone shortly thereafter, because Prophecy shows us just how much potential the character had.

I agree that Jonas is good in this episode. And I do like the questions raised. Did Niirti do this to him? Is it possible to really see the future?

I also love Janet in this one - it's one of her finest hours on the show. She's so professional and yet determined to save Jonas, full of authority and at the same time gentle, symphatetic and full of empathy. The scene where she tells Jonas he doesn't have to prove himself over and over is simply wonderful.

I think you're exactly right here. She really is the doctor you'd want taking care of you. I also like the scene in the briefing room--"that doesn't change the fact that it's still going to kill you." She's so frustrated with him. (I also like that she calls in a brain surgeon--too often on shows the docs are specialists in everything.)

I'll probably have to dodge rotten fruit for saying this , but since I hate Walter, I actually cheered when he died in Jonas' vision.

Not from me! I much preferred seeing a variety of gate techs. i never understood the fascination with Harriman.

And on the totally shallow note, Jack's hot in this one! come to think of it, everybody, including Janet, look especially well [/SIZE]

Shallow is good. Jack was lookin' good--can't deny it.

I liked the scenes between Jonas and Sam. he comes to see her after she got injured& you can feel his guilt and hesitation as he comes into the room, but Sam reassures him and they have this whole discussion about science and seeing the future. Then she's there for him when he's being wheeled into surgery.

[Crichiel]

Hey all, let me throw in my two cents on Prophecy here.

I like this episode, but agree it is more a Jonas ep, than a strictly 'team' episode. EXCEPT, the end when they are all around his bed and Jack makes the little comment to him, and Sam says she knew he'd warm up to him or whatever. That was a great moment and shows finally, after 20 or so episodes, that they are once again a real and true team...even in Jack's eyes.

That said, I always feel like this is probably a HUGE slap in the face to the big Jonas fans. Because in the very next episode, he is suddenly shoved to the background to make way for Daniel, and then is shoved off the SHOW right after that. Bad timing, guys! Love Daniel, so happy he came back, but honestly, not happy with the way they so carefully took the time to make Jonas a believable teammate, in every sense of the word, and then immediately toss him aside in the next episode.

But at least he got this great Jonas-centered ep before he left. I liked the continuation of the Nirrti storyline. I liked Sam and Jonas' friendship, and I loved Janet. One nitpick there, though: the surgery scene. Could you have filmed it to look any LESS like a real surgery was going on? They are standing totally upright instead of getting in close to see and (as was pointed out in one of my many Stargate books) WHAT is with Janet and the other doctor taking the time during an unbelievably delicate surgery to pass concerned looks at each other?! Pay attention to what you are doing, people!

Not much else I can add. I would probably give this ep a 7.5/10.

I'll let you guys know now, I am leaving for a trip here in a week and a half. Preparations are gearing up already. The next few episodes coming up are SO important to the 'team'-dynamic, I will try desperately to keep up with you all, but if I can't (or my posts are shorter), I apologise now. I DO plan on bringing the discs with me on vacation...just can't guarantee I'll find the time!

[resurgamlaura]

Hey all, let me throw in my two cents on Prophecy here.

I like this episode, but agree it is more a Jonas ep, than a strictly 'team' episode. EXCEPT, the end when they are all around his bed and Jack makes the little comment to him, and Sam says she knew he'd warm up to him or whatever. That was a great moment and shows finally, after 20 or so episodes, that they are once again a real and true team...even in Jack's eyes.

That said, I always feel like this is probably a HUGE slap in the face to the big Jonas fans. Because in the very next episode, he is suddenly shoved to the background to make way for Daniel, and then is shoved off the SHOW right after that. Bad timing, guys! Love Daniel, so happy he came back, but honestly, not happy with the way they so carefully took the time to make Jonas a believable teammate, in every sense of the word, and then immediately toss him aside in the next episode.

I'm pretty much in agreement, although having come to the show late I'm fairly chilled in my reaction as a Jonas fan (especially as I'm predominantly a team fan, I suppose). 'Prophecy' does what its meant to do- it shows us Jonas' personality, the changes that have occurred since he's joined the team, his place on the team and their inter-relations, especially with Sam (a lovely friendship which has steadily built up since the beginning of S6). However, it really could have done with being a few eps earlier- you want a fair gap between this ep and 'Metamorphosis', but this ep near the end of S6 doesn't work all that well, considering the content of 'Full Circle' and S7 and how that dramatically shifts the team dynamic in terms of membership (although not feeling).

Although, believe it or not, I actually really like the way that Jonas gets used in 'Fallen' and 'Homecoming', and even 'Full Circle', predominantly because I think his general attitude and also his interaction with Daniel is fab. Those eps are probably the ones I've played the most from S7, mostly because of those great little moments

[Crichiel]

Although, believe it or not, I actually really like the way that Jonas gets used in 'Fallen' and 'Homecoming', and even 'Full Circle', predominantly because I think his general attitude and also his interaction with Daniel is fab. Those eps are probably the ones I've played the most from S7, mostly because of those great little moments

I agree, some of the best scenes in those 3 episodes are seeing the two of them together....but we'll be talking about that soon enough!

[resurgamlaura]

I agree, some of the best scenes in those 3 episodes are seeing the two of them together....but we'll be talking about that soon enough!

Yes. My last word on this until next week is to warn you now that may have to hide from my embarrassing squeeing

[EH-T]

.

I like this episode, but agree it is more a Jonas ep, than a strictly 'team' episode. EXCEPT, the end when they are all around his bed and Jack makes the little comment to him, and Sam says she knew he'd warm up to him or whatever. That was a great moment and shows finally, after 20 or so episodes, that they are once again a real and true team...even in Jack's eyes.

That said, I always feel like this is probably a HUGE slap in the face to the big Jonas fans. Because in the very next episode, he is suddenly shoved to the background to make way for Daniel, and then is shoved off the SHOW right after that. Bad timing, guys! Love Daniel, so happy he came back, but honestly, not happy with the way they so carefully took the time to make Jonas a believable teammate, in every sense of the word, and then immediately toss him aside in the next episode.

I wasn't going to mention this until season 7 but since you brought it up, I agree.

I'm a fan of both Daniel and Jonas. I wasn't online during the whole MS is leaving nonsense and I like the team with either member. I feel for those who are Jonas fans. If my favourite character had been dealt with in the same manner, I'd be ticked. Really bugs me that once he was gone they only had him back once and never talked about him again.

[resurgamlaura]

'Full Circle'

Daniel Jackson appears to O'Neill and informs him that Anubis has discovered the location of the Eye of Ra- on Abydos. With his help, SG-1 find the object first. But Anubis, determined to have its power for himself, threatens to destroy the planet unless they give the Eye to him.

[EH-T]

'Full Circle'

Daniel Jackson appears to O'Neill and informs him that Anubis has discovered the location of the Eye of Ra- on Abydos. With his help, SG-1 find the object first. But Anubis, determined to have its power for himself, threatens to destroy the planet unless they give the Eye to him.

I have mixed feelings about this episode. At the time it was done they thought the series would be ending and this was to be the final episode on TV and set up the movie (which became The Lost City). As a general episode, I like it but I'm glad it was not the final episode of the series. Not satisfying enough to me to have been a series ender plus I would have hated ending the show with so many unanswered questions.

It was nice to see Daniel back although having rewatched all these episodes I've come to realise something. As much as I love Daniel, I'm not that big a fan of "ascended Daniel". Got kind of tired of the excuses for not using his power to really help others.

Lovely to see Skara and the Abadonians again but hate the fact they were all killed off. Seems to be a series ending trend with Stargate (killed off the Asguard in Unending, thinking season 7 was the last, killed off Janet).

Totally shallow thought: MS is awfully cute in the elevator scene.

Nice to see the old J/D banter in the elevator.

Love Sam's first question on hearing about Daniel: "Is he alright?". I have always been a big fan of the Sam/Daniel friendship which brings about my biggest complaint with this episode, the total lack of any meaningful discussion between them! We saw how much Sam cared for him when he died. Suddenly he's back and we get nothing. Well, we get a nod barely acknowledging her when they are first seen together but that's it. Apparently there was a scene between them but it was cut for time. Never ceases to amaze me that over and over again the success of the show is attributed to the love of the team and yet the first thing to be cut for time are the team moments! I would have preferred less fighting with the Jaffa or less chat between Daniel and Anubis in order to have a Sam/Daniel scene.

Love the set below the pyramid.

Laugh at the reaction of both Sam and Skara to Sam's "friends going to a wedding" line and Jack's discomfort.

Love the exchange between Jonas and Daniel.
Is that my stuff?
You weren't using it anymore.

Laugh at the exchanges between Jack and Herak. "Surrender or die!" "What?"

Love RDA's adlib "Spank me rosey" and admire Amanda and Chris for keeping it together!

Blowing up the pyramid was .

However, I find the ending anticlimatic.

[Callista]

I love Full Circle. It's one of the most flat-out entertaining episodes in my opinion.

I'll start with the two things I don't like about it:
1) I agree with EH-T about the lack of a Sam/Daniel discussion. I feel sorry for poor Sam when she finds out that Daniel has spoken with both Jack and Teal'c and that not only did he not come to her, that the other two guys never told her about their experiences with him. I could see her being a bit peeved at all three of them for that. I, too, wish their scene had not been cut.
2) I wish Oma hadn't ascended all the Abydonians. Not that I wanted them to die, either, but ascending the whole village seems kind of like cheating, and it cheapens what Daniel had to go through to ascend. Looking into the future, I also don't like that Daniel never has to face up to what he did here.

Now for the things I do like:
I love, love, love the elevator scene. The way Daniel just jumps right in with what he wants Jack to do and the way Jack just stands there and looks at him while thinking the whole time that this is it and he's finally cracked but yet he listens and takes it to Hammond and everyone else and lays it on the table assuming that they're probably going to lock him away under heavy sedation. (Plus, I agree with EH-T....Daniel is exceptionally hot in that scene! In fact, I think he's exceptionally hot in the whole episode!)

I also find it interesting and somewhat telling that after all this time ascended Daniel has still not met any of the "others". And he didn't even know for sure who the "others" were until finding the tablet. The poor guy must be pretty darn lonely with no one but Oma to talk to all this time. No wonder he's just been following his old friends around. And no wonder he's willing to push the limits and try to actually use the power, regardless of the consequences to himself. Too bad, though, that his over-confidence and frustration leads to such dire consequences to everyone else (the destruction of Abydos as well as the power of Anubis). I like that Anubis knows who Daniel is and that that is recalled later in Threads....despite their extreme differences, they actually have a little something in common being the ascended "rejects" as it were. I also like that Daniel totally screws up in this one. I wouldn't want our main characters screwing up in every episode, but I like that they're not always right, either.

As a side note here, I really like the way MS plays ascended Daniel differently than regular Daniel. He's got that gentle, quiet voice that is somehow way more disturbing than if he were yelling. He had the same voice in Beast of Burden when he had kind of gone over to the "I know what I'm doing here is going to have horrible consequences for many, but I'm going to do what I think is the right thing anyway and we'll all just have to sort it out later" side. The only time we really saw that slip was when he was so very frustrated and worried about Jack losing his soul in Abyss and Daniel's passion came out and then in the elevator when he's humoring Jack and when he figures out the rays should be red and noting Jonas is using his stuff...those three instances seem more like regular Daniel to me.

Teamwise, I like that everyone believes Jack right away (except maybe Jack, himself....at least he's an equal opportunity sanity skeptic ), Teal'c is willing to follow Daniel because they are friends and not because Daniel may be powerful, that Sam knows exactly what Daniel is thinking with her red light without him having to explain it, that Daniel and Jonas have sort of an understanding about Jonas using Daniel's stuff and that while Daniel may be slightly hurt by it he totally understands it as well and doesn't hold it against Jonas, that Jonas questions Jack about Jack's antagonizing the First Prime, and that Hammond just says "OK, if Daniel says it, and Jack believes it enough to tell me about it,it's good enough for me."

I also want to bring up Jack's/RDA's humor in this one. As we were discussing earlier, sometimes it seems like it can be too much and that it can be distracting from the story. In this one, though, I think he's got it just right. He's confused in the elevator but doesn't come off as stupid....just concerned that he's lost it and a bit miffed at Daniel for only stopping by in dire circumstances. I think he plays that perfectly. Later with the First Prime guy (one of the only actors outside of CJ and Tony Amendola and Yu's First Prime to play a Jaffa first prime as a good soldier instead of just a big, dumb guy, in my opinion), RDA comes close to going over the edge, but I think he holds himself back just enough to be really funny but still have Jack seem convincingly concerned and still a good leader. Poor Jack is just so out of his element here with all the "super-freaky powers" going on around him and Daniel telling him first one thing and then another and everything falling apart and having no control at all over anything except for his relationship with the First Prime. Jack knows exactly what is going to happen, but he has to go along with trusting Daniel anyway, because what other choice is there other than just blowing them all up along with the eye? I love him holding on to the eye just a beat too long when handing it over. You can see that Jack absolutely hates doing things this way. Anyway, kudos to RDA and Martin Wood for playing it all just right....or at least just the way I like it.

One final thing I really like is the easy, low-tech way they have of making Daniel appear and disappear. Through all three of the ascended Daniel episodes, I love that they just have MS stand behind the camera and then step out while it's panning and he's just there. I think that's way more effective and "magical" than the one time they have him disappear by turning all glowy.

Oh, one more final thing that always strikes me in this episode: It always concerns me that Sam just about shoots poor Jonas' head off when they're looking for the eye. She's got her safety glasses on and he's just walking towards her and BAM, BAM, BAM!!! and he has to cringe over to the side to get out of the way. Maybe Sam is more miffed at Daniel and Jack and Teal'c than she was letting on!!