Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[EH-T]

Perhaps it's only me but I believe that Sam's introduction as a character in SG1 wasn't a hundred miles off how they're handling the female characters introductions in SGU.

Sam had some good sass, smarts and was shown being able to handle herself in tight situations but she didn't save the day in Children of the Gods. She was also pretty much used as the damsel in distress in Enemy Mine and it wasn't until Emancipation (for all the episode was too 'I am woman; hear me roar') that she got significant screen time. The next episode had her kissing Jack in the locker room (albeit under the influence of an alien virus) and the one after that which focused on, had her faced off against her ex-fiance, and definitely dealt with some of her more personal falibilities in dealing with relationships that we didn't see again until Chimera and Affinity.

And yet, Sam did grow into a very strong character nevertheless. For me, it wasn't until Hathor and Singularity that Sam began to shine as someone who could also save the day. And from then on she went from strength to strength.

So I am truly trying to hold off on a judgement call re SGU and the usage of female characters until the end of the season when there is enough material to make a judgement. I can understand how people feel that the female characters aren't been showcased as much to date but one of the female characters definitely occupied a major sub-plot through Air and one of the characters had my favourite moment.

SGU Air spoiler

Spoiler:

TJ knocking out Telford for misusing Young's body.

My concern is rooted like others in the fact that none of the major 'action' roles of either soldier or scientist has gone to a woman to begin with.

SGU casting spoiler

Spoiler:

As much as I love David Blue in the role, I really don't see why Eli had to be a guy; a woman would have been great in that role of 'Math Girl'.

Dr Nicola Rush might have been original...or to have had Telford been a woman would have been original.

Always enjoy your thoughtful posts. In fact, I'm enjoying everyone's posts on this discussion.

I was going to respond last night but had internet "issues" but I see Melora has done my work for me.

My major problem with this argument is that Sam Carter was introduced back in 1997. That was 12 years ago. If TPTB are still falling into the same pitfalls that they did back then, I worry that they haven't learned much over the years. Add to that the way female characters were used on both SG-1 and SGA during the last few seasons and I think TPTB may have actually forgotten how to write strong and interesting female characters. Or perhaps they never did.

Some would argue that Sam was at her best when she was written just like a male character would have been written with AT adding the femininity to the role - something AT asked the writers to do early on. Perhaps that's one of the major reasons she turned out so well.

But I'm still waiting to see how TJ and Wray turn out and I hope my misgivings won't be realized. So far, I haven't been impressed with how the other female characters have been used on the show.

That is the point I was going to make. Sam's introduction was years ago. Surely to goodness we have progressed since then! Shows shouldn't be starting from square one at this stage. Why couldn't we start with a female colonel or have a senior scientist who happens to be female? In my own profession, women now make up more than 50 % of the university grads. Times have changed and TV should change along with it. In fact, TV should maybe be leading the charge.

Again, I'm willing to give SGU a chance and I hope things will change but if things stay the way they are I will move on as a direct result of TPTB's inability to move forward.

[Rachel500]

That is the point I was going to make. Sam's introduction was years ago. Surely to goodness we have progressed since then! Shows shouldn't be starting from square one at this stage. Why couldn't we start with a female colonel or have a senior scientist who happens to be female? In my own profession, women now make up more than 50 % of the university grads. Times have changed and TV should change along with it. In fact, TV should maybe be leading the charge.

Again, I'm willing to give SGU a chance and I hope things will change but if things stay the way they are I will move on as a direct result of TPTB's inability to move forward.

See, this is where I have more of an issue with SGU: the formation of female characters and their roles even before they got to the screen rather than actually what has been shown on screen to date.

Like you I don't know why one of the regular female characters doesn't occupy one of the 'key roles' which will become integral part of the problem solving (by this I mean a Scott-Young/Mitchell/O'Neill role, or the Carter/McKay/Rush-Eli positions).

Sam's position effectively gave her a pivotal role in problem solving and saving the day. It's not yet clear if any of the SGU female characters will be able to grow to occupy that kind of front runner position given their starting points on the grid.

Like everyone else has said, it's early days and like everyone else I'm waiting to see whether they can. In fact I don't think my viewpoint is millions of miles away from anyone else's; I think I'm perhaps just more hopeful there is a possibility that the SGU characters can transcend their boundaries and become as great as Sam did - despite some of the fumbled handling of female characters in recent years of the franchise.

[EvenstarSRV]

So so true. And such a waste. Weir in Lost City and the very beginning of SGA had such potential -- a strong, ambitious, focused, passionate, capable woman all too quickly turned into someone Sheppard and his team had to 'consult' simply for administrative reasons only, to get an official go. As the time went on, she had so little say in so few decisions, it was ridiculous if one considers she was in fact a leader of that expedition.

Definitely agree re Weir. I think the turning point for me was Hot Zone (?) where Sheppard overruled Weir's authority in that quarantine situation with pretty much complete impunity. It seemed that after that, as soon as Sheppard called a situation a military one, Weir lost any real authority she had regarding the mission.

As for identifying with any of them and Sam... With Carter, I found myself going between identifying with her not as a soldier or a scientist - as I am neither - but more with what her role and her actions really represented: a young capable woman, who strives to first prove herself and then goes on to achieve her goals in a world where the focus only recently started to shift from an all around capable Man. The woman who refuses to be determined by her private life and is so much more than someone's someone, but a person in her own right.

She was and still is inspiring. So, yeah. I found myself going between identifying myself with her in some respect, with all the aspirations she had; and admiring her for achieving them, aspiring to realize those goals as she had.

I'm simply not feeling anything similar with any of the SGU women. Alas. Like you said, it's still early and the characters may very well progress and become so much more. Kind of like reverse Atlantis situation? One can hope.

Those are a lot of the reasons why I identify so much with Sam. While my interest/background in science first drew me to the character, I think it was/is her quiet competence and drive to succeed, as well as how she handles her work vs. private life, that I identify the most with.

Of the SGU characters I can identify with TJ the most, mainly because I am a medic of sorts and my studies are focused on the medical field.

See, this is where I have more of an issue with SGU: the formation of female characters and their roles even before they got to the screen rather than actually what has been shown on screen to date.

Like you I don't know why one of the regular female characters doesn't occupy one of the 'key roles' which will become integral part of the problem solving (by this I mean a Scott-Young/Mitchell/O'Neill role, or the Carter/McKay/Rush-Eli positions).

Sam's position effectively gave her a pivotal role in problem solving and saving the day. It's not yet clear if any of the SGU female characters will be able to grow to occupy that kind of front runner position given their starting points on the grid.

Like everyone else has said, it's early days and like everyone else I'm waiting to see whether they can. In fact I don't think my viewpoint is millions of miles away from anyone else's; I think I'm perhaps just more hopeful there is a possibility that the SGU characters can transcend their boundaries and become as great as Sam did - despite some of the fumbled handling of female characters in recent years of the franchise.

I'm probably just repeating myself, but I think the bolded is the key difference between Sam and the SGU female characters. Because like you said, Sam's position on SG-1 as the soldier/scientist allowed her to fully participate in the 'saving the day' stuff from the get go. And even though she wasn't the focus in COTG, that role allowed her to go on that first mission, while if she'd just been a scientist I don't think she would have gone.

And as Sky mentioned, the creative differences between the beginning of SG-1 and the beginnings of SGA and SGU probably does play some role, because no other character has been given that dual role Sam has.

I think it is a shame, and perhaps a sign that we perhaps haven't progressed as far as we thought when it comes to female characters on sci-fi, that the only SGU character in a somewhat leadership role in TJ as the default CMO. Though I do have hopes for Wray becoming sort of the civilian leader of the ship.

Great discussion by everyone, the fridge is empty so here's some green all around.

[Celandine]

So far, there really isn't a strong female character that I can personally identify with. Not going to write it off yet certainly beacause we're only 5 eps in, but not looking promising in my book

I feel the same way. 'Light' in my opinion had more potential than all the other eps combined in drawing me back next week, but still, no female as of yet has shined in any way comparable to what Sam was.

I was happy to find out that the character of Dr. Camille Wray (Ming-Na) has become the Stargate franchise's first gay character and the first Asian-American lesbian series' regular on television, which to me is monumental for American television. For me, she has some potential as her character was intended, as far as I know, to be a strong female who would be in contention with the military, the men in her life and would battle out ideas and decisions made around her. I only hope Wright and Cooper do her justice as the show progresses. She won't be Sam by any means I think, but at least having another strong woman to cheer on each week will be something to look forward to.

Happy Birthday rderoch!

Happy Birthday sophie!


Hope you both have a wonderful day!

[EH-T]

Got caught up in the discussion and forgot something very important.

Happy Birthday to rderoch and Sophie!!

Sophie, where have you been? rderoch, celebrate with a donut from Tim's! (They are in your area aren't they?)

[Skydiver]

Sam i could identify with largely on the 'lone female in a man's job' basis. and i loved how she acted and was treated...as one of the guys.

she wasn't the femme fatale, she wasn't the perpetual victim, she was part of the team.

None of the SGA characters really achieved that, females that is. while i LOVED the Jessica Weir, how forceful but not mean, passionate and confident she was, the Torri weir was...well she seemed 'emasculated' so to speak to facilitate the hero and his buddy aspect of the show.

Teyla...eye candy is how she was played up. I look at her costuming and how she was always the peace maker and mediator and...well at least she didn't get kidnapped as often as Keller did but still, she was just so marginalized by the end of the show i felt sorry for the character

Wray, you know, i forgot totally about her. We'll see how she plays out. I consider Chloe pretty much a write off to be any sort of strong. She seems destined to be the emotional one. not that that's bad, but she seems to be set to be the 'kind hearted softie' and or girlfriend in peril.

James...might be okay, we'll see. TJ has potential as far as i'm concerned. Wray...we'll see if they let her be her or if they get so caught up in making her the 'asian lesbian' that they forget to make her a person.

As far as i'm concerned, Sam stands alone as the strongest female in this whole franchise, followed closely by Janet, then Jessica Weir, the Cadman.

the rest...have their moments but, so far, Keller is totally the weakest and the jury's still out on the Universe Ladies

[hisg1fans]

That is the point I was going to make. Sam's introduction was years ago. Surely to goodness we have progressed since then! Shows shouldn't be starting from square one at this stage. Why couldn't we start with a female colonel or have a senior scientist who happens to be female? In my own profession, women now make up more than 50 % of the university grads. Times have changed and TV should change along with it. In fact, TV should maybe be leading the charge.

Again, I'm willing to give SGU a chance and I hope things will change but if things stay the way they are I will move on as a direct result of TPTB's inability to move forward.

During the last couple of years, the overall graduation rates rose to 60% women and 40% men in the the US. Once you get to some hard-core math and science degrees the numbers shift back to 50/50 or more men though.

Do your math girls!!!!

I always identified with Sam as a 'math geek' I guess, especially Sam in Moebius. I think I even had the same brown sweather with the flowers . Very stylin' !

I'm in a primarily male dominated field. However, it is quickly becoming more even with all of the women we've been hiring lately. They are younger though and some career paths are still almost exclusively male oriented. Not intentionally, it just seems to turn out that way for some reason.

According to a recent CNN article, I am now in the sexiest job there is as a "statistician". (The sexy part has nothing to do with my body either, I wouldn't make the top billion in that category )

[hisg1fans]

I've watched the first episodes of SGU and agree that none of the female characters are in the same 'action' role as Sam was from day one. I think the medic has the most potential, just because there has been so little time spent with her and the other three have already been pretty well stereotyped in one dimension(tough chick, damsel in distress, argumentative witch on a power trip). The medic and the IOA rep might have some power in the leadership hierarchy if things are written that way.

I was wondering if all of the criticism TPTB received over Sam being "granted too much knowledge" lead to the stripped down, one-dimensional characters. I never bought that argument with Sam and I don't buy it with these women.

A friend of mine is a pilot, a Certified Public Accountant, a computer engineer, raised two sets of twins-all boys , cooks the the best barbeque ribs you could ever eat, married her high school sweetheart, prepared budgets for the Joints Chiefs, is a black belt in both karate and some other martial art I can't spell, likes Stargate, and is a Colonel in the US Air Force. About the only thing I can do that she can't is sew Halloween costumes

Many women are so multi-talented they can't be solely identified as "one" thing.

And it may be that the actesses need to do some of the same things AT did and take more initiative to get their roles written as more powerful and multi-dimensioned people.

[hisg1fans]

Happy birthdays all around.

May this be the best year yet!

[samcarterrules]

Hey everyone,

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/NearlyCircular/Birthday%20Cakes/HappyBirthdayrderoch.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...thdaysofie.jpg

NC

Happy Birthday Guys!!

Always enjoy your thoughtful posts. In fact, I'm enjoying everyone's posts on this discussion.

I was going to respond last night but had internet "issues" but I see Melora has done my work for me.

That is the point I was going to make. Sam's introduction was years ago. Surely to goodness we have progressed since then! Shows shouldn't be starting from square one at this stage. Why couldn't we start with a female colonel or have a senior scientist who happens to be female? In my own profession, women now make up more than 50 % of the university grads. Times have changed and TV should change along with it. In fact, TV should maybe be leading the charge.

Again, I'm willing to give SGU a chance and I hope things will change but if things stay the way they are I will move on as a direct result of TPTB's inability to move forward.

I agree, its eleven years on and they (TPTB) appear to be making the same mistakes. I have watched the first few eps but last weeks one (the sandy planet one) I have to admit I was board. I think I'm having trouble relating to any of the female characters.

Sam when I first saw her in S5 was making a place in the world for herself, whilst discovering how strong she could be. I at 19 was doing the same thing (still am actually) I feel the SGU ladies, right now at least, are just wallpaper.

But having said all that I'm hanging in there with SGU right as its still early days.

Then of course we have Sanctuary...strong females abound there.




Julia(samcarterrules)

[jckfan55]

It's not enough to have women characters there, they have to be developed and DO something.
to me, Sam never felt like the token woman character to me. She was part of the team from the get go, despite the unfortunate reproductive organs speech. though I did like the Major Matt Mason & pulling out of a bombing run at however many Gs comment.

[EvenstarSRV]

Got caught up in the discussion and forgot something very important.

Happy Birthday to rderoch and Sophie!!

Ack, me too. Happy Birthday you guys, hope you have a great day!

I was wondering if all of the criticism TPTB received over Sam being "granted too much knowledge" lead to the stripped down, one-dimensional characters. I never bought that argument with Sam and I don't buy it with these women.

I'm no writer, but perhaps the characters are easier to write for if they only have one main skill set? I think if a character is just a scientist or soldier, it probably makes their actions/reactions to a situation more predicable than if they were both. I can't remember where I read it, but I think both Brad Wright and Jonathon Glassner have said that Sam was probably the hardest SG-1 character to write for, because she was both a soldier and a scientist.

A friend of mine is a pilot, a Certified Public Accountant, a computer engineer, raised two sets of twins-all boys , cooks the the best barbeque ribs you could ever eat, married her high school sweetheart, prepared budgets for the Joints Chiefs, is a black belt in both karate and some other martial art I can't spell, likes Stargate, and is a Colonel in the US Air Force. About the only thing I can do that she can't is sew Halloween costumes

Wow, I think it's only proper to say to your friend, 'you go girl!'

It's not enough to have women characters there, they have to be developed and DO something.
to me, Sam never felt like the token woman character to me. She was part of the team from the get go, despite the unfortunate reproductive organs speech. though I did like the Major Matt Mason & pulling out of a bombing run at however many Gs comment.

I loved that Matt Mason doll bit. I thought it was a nice bit of bonding with Ferretti that sort of counter-balanced the confrontation with Jack.

[rderoch]

Got caught up in the discussion and forgot something very important.

Happy Birthday to rderoch and Sophie!!

Sophie, where have you been? rderoch, celebrate with a donut from Tim's! (They are in your area aren't they?)

Thanks everyone!

We have Tim's, but I thought it would be more fun to spend 4 hours at the car dealership getting my car worked on. Woo Hoo! Party on!

[majorsal]

i'm sorry to say, but i have very few hopes that any of the women on sgu will be given the chance to lead a storyline. well, expect cloying chloe, who i can't stand.

i'd like to see a lot more of tj and james.

not that i want another sam carter to latch onto (there's only ONE ), but at least let them be more important to a storyline, besides love interest or wall holder.

with this group, i don't see it happening.

i have this very strong urge to thank damian and martin right now.

[leiasky]

i'm sorry to say, but i have very few hopes that any of the women on sgu will be given the chance to lead a storyline. well, expect cloying chloe, who i can't stand.

At this point, I don't like any of them enough to want to see a whole storyline about them. I liked Chloe in the beginning and now I really can't stand her.

i have this very strong urge to thank damian and martin right now.

They've written some damn strong women in Sanctuary and I respect the heck out of them for it!