Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[RealmOfX]

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9499/predatoruavmx0.jpg
The mission was a bust. The UAV didn't pick up any radio chatter from the AF advisor. Where should we check next?

Go down the hall
Turn right
Take the elevator to the lowest sub basement
Go to the end of the corridor to the small hatch
Open hatch and go down 20 flights of stairs
Go through the hatch (watch out for the cobwebs!!)
Check out the closet with 20 chains around it

[jckfan55]

sometimes, what i see is, they don't write 'a character', they write 'a FEMALE character' or 'a MALE character'

The gender seems to come first.

And that's one of the reasons that perhaps a female writer on the staff would have helped balance perspectives.

Also the sense among the business types who run the company & uninformed press is that only teenaged males are interested in SF. Therefore ActionGuy & HotGirl are the characters they think are important. Oh and explosions and spaceships. Too bad they seem to have never watched SG1. You know--StarGate Team #1.

Of course, Sam has been responsible for some of the biggest explosions...

[Skydiver]

a nice sam fic

http://triciabyrne1978.livejournal.com/105150.html

entity tag from sam's pov

[jckfan55]

Go down the hall
Turn right
Take the elevator to the lowest sub basement
Go to the end of the corridor to the small hatch
Open hatch and go down 20 flights of stairs
Go through the hatch (watch out for the cobwebs!!)
Check out the closet with 20 chains around it

And the "Danger--Keep Out" sign?

Yikes, the AF advisor might look like one of the Linvris by now.

[suse]

Go down the hall
Turn right
Take the elevator to the lowest sub basement
Go to the end of the corridor to the small hatch
Open hatch and go down 20 flights of stairs
Go through the hatch (watch out for the cobwebs!!)
Check out the closet with 20 chains around it

And Fluffy (who has now gone deaf).
TPTB borrowed him from Hagrid.

suse
No, I don't mean Nolamom's Fluffy

[NZNeep]

I'm curiously happy about something... if you look at the captions on the photos in Joe's blog today you will see that the physics consultant for Atlantis is female. I don't know how I missed it before... I guess since I had never heard the name Mika before I didn't realise.

Go Mika! I know what it's like to be one of the only girls in a lecture hall full of guys. Would have prepared her well for the boys club at Stargate

[suse]

And that's one of the reasons that perhaps a female writer on the staff would have helped balance perspectives.

Also the sense among the business types who run the company & uninformed press is that only teenaged males are interested in SF. Therefore ActionGuy & HotGirl are the characters they think are important. Oh and explosions and spaceships. Too bad they seem to have never watched SG1. You know--StarGate Team #1.

Of course, Sam has been responsible for some of the biggest explosions...

"Y'know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water!"

suse

[MerryK]

MerryK I don't think the argument is that the storyline is sexist in any way. I think the argument presented, whether you agree with it or not, is that the WRITERS and other PTB (be it Sci-Fi or the execs or whoever) decided that Amanda, as a female, and therefore her character Sam, could not headline the show because traditionally a male fronts a big show like this.

Really? That's the argument? I've got no problem being irritated with writers when they really majorly screw up (Stephanie Meyer, I'm talking to you), but I guess I don't look to their worldview automatically when they make a decision I don't approve of. Actually, I guess I just like to forget the writers exist unless they make a glaring mistake. The world as written is much more interesting to me than the reasons why it was written that way.

Sigh... I guess nowhere in the fandom can one escape the TPTB discussion...

*perks up*

But you know what? Sam is awesome! Amanda Tapping is awesome! And they'd be awesome even if the writers tossed all the Sam-canon out of the window and made her a Mary Sue, because the real Sam would be in the hearts of us Samandans and our fanfiction.

[ParadoxRealities]

Quotes shortened for space.

All new people were supposed to come in, it was just Mitchell's stubbornness that made it otherwise, so no one was being replaced.

I think my major problem with it was so obviously not thought out (there were many better ways to do it). It basically showed me that TPTB didn't really care about Sam (or Mitchell, or accuracy, for that matter). As to seeing it from TPTB's POV, I'm with you, usually I don't. But to me, this was so obviously contrived and so entirely different from what they've done in the past that is had to be TPTB.

Had Mitchell been a female Colonel, would we be having this discussion? By himself, Mitchell wasn't really offensive

Personally, I don't think TPTB ever would have written him as a female. However, if they did, I would most certainly still be having this conversation. To me, Mitchell was incredibly offensive. Not necessarily his character (though he's not my kind of personality, personally), but his character in that position. He's the CO, he can't be worse than (much less bumbling and subservient to) the team. That's a huge discredit to them, especially Sam. ....annnnd now I'm off topic. You see, that's why I try to stay far away from WSL (anyone here still remember the WSL thread? )
EDIT: As you can see, we have very different interpretations of what TPTB did (namely how screwed up it was). To me, it's so incredibly abnormal and so incredibly unreasonable, that I honestly do think sexism played a part. Certainly if Sam was a guy, I think they would have put more thought into it. I understand that they want to have fun (a very different kind than previously), but I think that was only part of it.

I'm just glad that Sam didn't really act subordinate to Cam—they were equals, and usually they behaved that way. There are few iffy scenes, but whatever TPTB had in mind, the show doesn't really support Cam as leader.

You can't do that in the military. The entire thing...it's so...gah! stopping. I'm stopping. *repeats: this is not WSL, this is not WSL, I'm going to give Sky a heart attack, this is not WSL*

But I don't think it was the fact that Sam was a woman that made TPTB leave her out (she did get some command in Season 8)...

I don't think it was all her gender, but, IMO, it was a major factor. We'll agree to disagree there. Though I will say that bringing in a new leader for s9-10 (when 10 was guaranteed) is a lot easier and more sensible than bringing one in for just one season (s8).

I guess I've just had different experiences. I've been to so many threads (and argued with a fair number of people) about the Jack v. Cam thing and they definitely weren't backing down Part of the reason I don't like Jack and part of the reason why I couldn't allow myself to get into J/S or even Sam for awhile was because I had so many negative experiences with people on this board (mostly it was the S9/10 v S1-8 and Sam v. Vala - which I never understood). You know, where you get so blinded by your personal experiences that you don't want to like something because you really hate some of the people who like it? Is that in any way logical? I did get over the Sam thing...mostly, in fact because of Cam and Vala. I enjoyed her so much with them that I was able to go back and watch older episodes with Sam and not have the same negativity. Jack, well....I still can't overcome his treatment of Jonas

Wow. I'm glad I joined GW well after I started watching SG! I didn't know people were fighting Cam v. Jack, thanks for telling me. I did run into some of that with Vala, since the more vocal Vala fans (at the beginning at least), were anti-Sam. I managed to get over that though, do in large part to my fellow Samandans.

I'm not entirely sure if I understand what people mean by that. To me, and I'm sure I'm in the minority here, I've always kinda viewed Sam as the token female character - the character that every SF show is required to have. Now I'm not saying that she was a bad character (I actually LOVED S1 Sam) but I had to wonder sometimes if she was created (like Teyla) merely because the writers couldn't have an all-male team.

Oh, I'm pretty certain that's why she was created. And probably why stuff like Emancipation (though I did like that ep) were written at first. But she loosened up pretty quickly. She There were some eps later, and definitely some in s7-8, but overall she was one of the guys. I do agree that she pretty much stopped by The Girl (on screen) when Vala showed up. Then again, IMO, she basically stopped being on screen, period.

[Stef]

Perhaps the collaborative was more desirable on a TV show but it made SG-1 lose some of the believability. In the military there is a clear line of command for good reason. They don't always have the luxury of time to discuss what should be done so a clear leader must make that decision. I don't remember which episode it was (Camelot?) but they were on a ship and the ship commander wanted to know what action to take. The hesitation shown when Cam looked to Sam for her opinion is one instance when this comes to mind.

*shrugs* To each their own. I think decisions were made when they needed to be made. I liked that it was a growing process...that the ones in command weren't perfect, made mistakes, and didn't always know the right answer. But I suppose I'm in the minority here so I'll just have to accept your POV and agree to disagree.

-Stef

[LilFerret]

[CENTER][B]That is beautiful. Great job LilFerret. If you don't want to be Amanda's photographer, then maybe you could make her murals of herself.

And if only I could get paid for it!

Now lets talk with LilFerret

LilFerret, that is awesome! Cool mask, and I loved the little Amanda badge you got there. Oh and thanks sooooooooooo much for putting to all your CC pics together in one big post. Btw, remember when I said you should be Amanda's photographer? I really think you should send her your resume. Or these pics.

Thanks LOL...but the pics of the mask and the Trollop are Tracy. HEH.

ME TOO!! I love everything about Stargate, and I watch all 10 seasons regularly. The nitpicking is just little things that irk once in a while. Overall, I absolutely adore this show!

Me too. For sure.

I might upset some fellow shippers, but the only canon romantic relationship for Sam non-AU, non-AT is with Pete, whether we like it or not... (and maybe with Jonas but that was before the show)

I don't feel upset, I just don't agree. Sam / Jack is canon to me ... and Brad Wright said it was OK to see it like that

What Annelies said.

Something that kinda irks me is when I get made to feel that being a Sam/Jack shipper is a bad thing...like we're trying to make something out of nothing.
I'm not a fanatical shipper per se....but I don't think the S/J ship was all in our imaginations.

My imagination is not NEARLY that good.

see, for me, i've been reading sam and jack fic since season two. That's almost 10 years of fic, and there's not much out there that i haven't read when it comes to a story.

every once in a while an author does come up with a new twist or something different...but, at its most basic, a lot of them are just different takes on teh same story. so, for me, been there, read that.

GOOD LORD! *eyes cross* I guess I might get a little bored at that point too! But then, I'd just write my own... HEE

*pets tit*

*spits out hamburger*

Neep! This is a PG forum!!

suse

LMAO

GUYS!!! Have you seen this on Joe's recent Blog entry:

YAY!

Exactly. It's not how Sam was written out of command, but why.

At least TPTB at Sanctuary think Amanda can headline a show.

Mike

Amanda is TPTB at Sanctuary...or one of them anyway I think.

Exactly. LOL.

[majorsal]

But I don't think it was the fact that Sam was a woman that made TPTB leave her out (she did get some command in Season 8), it was just that they didn't know how to write her as commander after eight years of being 2IC. They did try to take her character in new directions in Season 9 and 10, not submissive but not in command either, just kind of independent. That apparently warmed them up for writing her in true command on Atlantis.

no proof, but when they hired the new male lead, they (whoever 'they' really are) wanted that character leading the team. exit sam as leader.

as for the new directions for sam in s9/10... would 'sit over there in the corner' be a direction?



sally

[Stef]

Wow. I'm glad I joined GW well after I started watching SG! I didn't know people were fighting Cam v. Jack, thanks for telling me. I did run into some of that with Vala, since the more vocal Vala fans (at the beginning at least), were anti-Sam. I managed to get over that though, do in large part to my fellow Samandans.

Well, I came onto the boards with no opinion about Sam at all...but quickly grew to dislike her simply because I felt like for some reason a lot of the "true" fans (their word, not mine) felt that liking both Sam and Vala was impossible - like you had to choose sides. I still remember the people who said that Vala was just a pale version of Sam, and that every Vala fan was just jealous of how amazing Sam was. So I think as a new fan I quickly felt unwelcome in the majority of threads on this board. I have no idea who started it (I mean, I know a fair amount of uber-devoted Vala fans who take things way too far and need to just shut their mouths somtimes) but somewhere along the way it was decided that everyone had to take sides and start of war of the ladies It's sad because I never hated Sam for the character...I didn't like her because I grew tired of the bashing...of the off-topic insults...and the snide remarks. I think it's calmed down some but I still can't help but feel at times that I'm a contradiction in tastes - for liking both women. They're two completely different women, both with interesting and unique contributions to the team

-Stef

[suse]

Really? That's the argument? I've got no problem being irritated with writers when they really majorly screw up (Stephanie Meyer, I'm talking to you), but I guess I don't look to their worldview automatically when they make a decision I don't approve of. Actually, I guess I just like to forget the writers exist unless they make a glaring mistake. The world as written is much more interesting to me than the reasons why it was written that way.

Sigh... I guess nowhere in the fandom can one escape the TPTB discussion...

*perks up*

But you know what? Sam is awesome! Amanda Tapping is awesome! And they'd be awesome even if the writers tossed all the Sam-canon out of the window and made her a Mary Sue, because the real Sam would be in the hearts of us Samandans and our fanfiction.

I certainly don't think the command bits (and other things) they decided on are the end all/be all of the writer's world view. Far from it. But it is a symptom of something archaic and something I thought they were better than; apparently only when Gekko was there. And perhaps Brad. He was busy with SGA though. Which had somewhat simialr issues of it's own.

I guess I see what they did as a glaring mistake - breaking canon, why????, so they could insert blahblahblahblahblah... <sigh>

The world as written was much less exciting to me *because* of the way it was written. I expected more of them.

More Sam? Certainly more than what we got. I never expected her to be front and center 15/20 eps. Sam as team lead even if AT wasn't series lead? You bet.

suse

[Skydiver]

GOOD LORD! *eyes cross* I guess I might get a little bored at that point too! But then, I'd just write my own... HEE

yes, i'm old

this fandom is pretty much on its second generation of fic writers. many of the folks that started the fandom a decade ago have moved onto other things. Not all of course, but a lot.

There's new fic writers now. Some are really good, other are just good, others are good to those with tastes different from mine.

some that have recently joined hte fandom, they see the old eps 'unpure'...and by that i mean, they see them after the fact, after things have been debated and argued and explained, while many of us watched the story unfold unspoiled. We watched the tapestry be weaves in 'real time'...and there were no dvd box sets to play catch up with.

There was no Joe's blog to give us spoilers, we watched each eps with only what the TV guide said to spoil it. We didn't know behind the scenes stuff or who was gonna guest when or any of this.

A lot of us spent years watching the characters and friendships develop and we didn't have anyone telling us 'this is when it changed' or 'this plot started here'.

so some of us have a different perspective because we watched history in action, instead of joining and having the luxury of catching a whole season in a weekend.

For some, we were able to interpret things as they happened, instead of posting a 'wow, did you notice....' and having 10 people fill us in on things.

Neither group is better than another, and i'm not implying that. I do think there's a general difference between them simply because there are differing perspectives.