Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Discussion/Appreciation

[jckfan55]

Magnus is a tough, kick butt character, who's also a mother and a scientist and caretaker. she doesn't have to be a heartless witch to be tough, and she doesn't have to be wishy-washy to be a mother and care taker.

she's just a woman.

[Fresh_Horse]

yeah, youd think... but sometimes even the in your face clues go over peoples heads... i really dont understand why in this day and age they dont think women enjoy sci fi... you just have to attend a convention or log onto a fan forum to know there are plenty of female sci fi fans...

im not entirely sure that is a gender based thing... while ive had my fair share of people who look at me like i have two heads when they find out i like sci fi, my brother also didnt tell his friends for years that he was a sci fi fan... unfortunately i think the surprised looks and comments comes with the genre...

I don't even try to tell people that I like Sci Fi. You think I waste my breath on that?
*sheesh*

Anke and I discussed AT4 a couple of weeks back and she told me that she's still trying to figure out how to explain the event to other people (without sounding like a raving lunatic...which Anke of course is but that is a different story ).
I told her that I don't worry about explaining conventions anymore. I simply tell people that I am going to attend a charity event where we raise money for a number of charities and then launch into this explanation of what hearing dogs do. That is usually enough to steer people away from the obvious question why I need to travel to England to attend a charity event.

No mention of Sci Fi, no mention of AT or Stargate/Sanctuary. People wouldn't get it anyway.

[Tittamiire]

I don't even try to tell people that I like Sci Fi. You think I waste my breath on that?
*sheesh*

Anke and I discussed AT4 a couple of weeks back and she told me that she's still trying to figure out how to explain the event to other people (without sounding like a raving lunatic...which Anke of course is but that is a different story ).
I told her that I don't worry about explaining conventions anymore. I simply tell people that I am going to attend a charity event where we raise money for a number of charities and then launch into this explanation of what hearing dogs do. That is usually enough to steer people away from the obvious question why I need to travel to England to attend a charity event.

No mention of Sci Fi, no mention of AT or Stargate/Sanctuary. People wouldn't get it anyway.

I tend to be open about it because I have the luxury of working somewhere where everyone is as mad as a box of frogs and my friends are all round the bend in their own way so conventions are really at the less-weird end of the spectrum. I used to get stick at school and college for it, but sixteen and seventeen year olds will pick on anything.

I do think there's an element of difference in attitudes between countries and groups of people to sci fi that comes into play to.

I get the feeling that Sci fi in the US is much more targeted at a specific audience of Sci Fi fans instead of just 'hey lets make some good TV that just also happens to be science fiction' maybe that also feeds into the less than desirable female characters...everyone involved in making Universe is coming at the whole thing from the wrong angle and it plays through everything, characters included.

[rderoch]

*cough*
Doctor Who had a male lead

Ok, longest consecutively running scifi shows. My bad.

[Skydiver]

I just tell people that i'm going on vacation in.....and meeting up with some friends

[Tracy Jane]

My agency (I'm a supply teacher) were desperately trying to get me to work Friday 13th, and I've agreed to arrive there at lunchtime. So I told my consultant that I'm going to an international charity event (well it is... there are people coming from all over the world) and it will be great experience, because I get to translate and interprete and hone my language skills. Funnily enough, I didn't get another argument out of him.

I always thought my dad would be the one to be funny with conventions and stuff (to this day he thinks I was camping in Norfolk last year, when I was in San Diego. Funny thing is, his work sent him to SD for a few days and he mentioned this big convention and how he could have sworn he saw a girl just like me... ooops) but he really gets it. He collects first day covers and so he understands the collecting thing and he gets really excited about some stories and stars. Less so about the Stargate people, but he was interested in Leonard Nimoy, and a few of the sports stars.

[jckfan55]

I tend to be open about it because I have the luxury of working somewhere where everyone is as mad as a box of frogs and my friends are all round the bend in their own way so conventions are really at the less-weird end of the spectrum. I used to get stick at school and college for it, but sixteen and seventeen year olds will pick on anything.

I've got to remember that expression.

[slurredspeech]

I've got to remember that expression.

You're not English, are you?

*tackle!hug*

[Tittamiire]

I've got to remember that expression.

I was reminded of it recently and have vowed to use it more often!

[EvenstarSRV]

im not entirely sure that is a gender based thing... while ive had my fair share of people who look at me like i have two heads when they find out i like sci fi, my brother also didnt tell his friends for years that he was a sci fi fan... unfortunately i think the surprised looks and comments comes with the genre...

Possibly, though I think sci-fi as a genre has gotten more mainstream acceptance in the US now than even 5-10 years ago.

But I am lucky that the comments and such are usually just from acquaintances or class-mates when the topic of favorite books/films/tv shows comes up. Most of my family and friends are also fellow sci-fi fans and we've had lots of fun geeking out over BSG or Dune, and it was my boyfriend who got me into Stargate in the first place.

As has been said the whole 'argh we're writing a woman!' does seem to be a huge barrier. I wish there were more characters that were the characters first, but also happened to be a woman. The same would be nice for every group within soceity, an awesome character who also happened to be from a minority ethnic group or gay or disabled etc. Gender is a one facet of a full formed gem of a character...not the whole character.

Well said.

I've got to remember that expression.

LOL, that was an unexpected but delightful turn of phrase. Why would the frogs be in a box in the first place....

[Rocky89]

i've got to say AGAIN, how wonderful and great sam carter is!!

after watching 'sgu', where the females on that show aren't even close to the sam carter greatness...


*salutes sam*

^ well said sal

mind you its hard to get close to sam's greatness

SAM ROCKS! AMANDA ROCKS!

You're absolutely right Sally and Kat, no matter how many Stargate shows they make, and no matter how many female characters they come up with, there is, and always will be only 1 Samantha Cater.

((()))

While I am all for cheering for the wonderful character that is Sam Carter, I think it is unfortunate if the SGU characters do not measure up. Maybe they will over time. I hope so because isn't it a good thing to have strong female characters on TV (whatever the entertainment category)? I missed Friday's episode but have certainly seen much more emphasis on the male characters in the eps I've seen. I think that's a shame. I would like to see a little more equality.

I think in fairness to SGU, we're only 5 eps into the series and the show has almost twice the number of leads, and 3 times as many female leads, as SG-1 did. So I think it's going to take a while until we see a similar kind of focus on the SGU female characters like we saw with Sam in S1.

While the focus has mostly been with the male characters thus far, I think there have been several good moments for the female characters, especially TJ and Wray. So while I'm not sure if any of them will quite measure up to Sam to me, I think they all have the potential of becoming strong characters in their own right.

As for the bolded parts, a lot of people would say that Sam pretty much proved herself within the first 5 episodes, and it only expanded throughout the rest of the season. Within the first 5 episodes she demonstrated strength, smarts, independence, leadership and made it clear she wasn't going to let herself be taken lightly because she's a woman.

She came into a men's world, but she proved women belong in the air force and in time they gained a lot of respect for her. But the way the SGU girls are written and how they're portrayed, I don't see them measuring up to Sam's VERY high bar any time soon.

One of the reasons I said "maybe they will over time". I realise it is early days and the comparison was to a character we have seen for many years.

However, that doesn't change the point that we've seen a male based focus in casting and in the stories to date. If there are 3 main female characters instead of one shouldn't numbers dictate we see more of them not less? Besides, why is it that the males so greatly outnumber the females? Isn't it time for that to change? I love TPTB for bringing me such a great female character in Sam but I see regression not progression in SGA and SGU. Let me be clear, I'm all for wonderful male characters as well, I'd just like things to be a bit more even. In SGU there is a large scientific/civilian component so no excuse not to have more even numbers.

(climbs down off soap box and returns you to your regularly scheduled programing)

I see what you mean, Sam's been around for 12 years, and she's only gone up since day 1. She's gone from Captain to Colonel, from 2IC of SG-1 to leading R&D at Area 51 to leading Atlantis to commanding the General Hammond. She's the only female on Stargate who's gone above and beyond on so many levels. Sure Sam had her down moments, but she picked herself up and keep going and that's what made her she is today.

You’re discussing the main thing that’s bothered me about SGU so far- the way that the female characters have been used- or more precisely- not used. I’m trying to recall if any of the female characters has had any significant role in solving any of the major issues so far. I don’t think so. They all seem to be there only in support of the men doing the actual problem solving and “world-saving.” That’s one of my personal meters for deciding whether I like a show or really, really like it. Not only do I want there to be women characters, I want them to actually have a significant part in the “hero” stuff. I’d like them to save the day once in a while.

I know, it’s early in SGU, and there are a lot of characters to develop, but we’ve seen some of the men in secondary roles doing more to figure out a problem, and work to fix it, than any of the women. Compare this to the first 5 episodes of SG1 where Sam was clearly important to the team, or SGA, where both Teyla and Elizabeth played major roles (at least in the beginning.) I admit it, Sam spoiled me, but I would hope that SGU will give us at least a few episodes where a woman or several women take the lead and get them out of the weekly predicament.

NC

I agree with those two bolded statements the most, because they just show how the SGU girls aren't reaching their full potential. They're not really show any leadership qualities, not much authority an worse, not much technobabble either.

Sam on the other hand started of as "the girl" but she always showed she is a leader, soldier and scientist. You couldn't find a better track record than hers, she's been a major part in the defeat of 3 very powerful bad guys, the Goa'uld, the Replicators, and the Ori, she's had first-hand, off world missions/encounters, and has tons of knowledge of the enemies and their technologies. She learned how to make a hyperspace window, which now every ship has one, she learned how to use Merlin's out of phase device to cloak cities, and ships, adapted all the Asgard technology to all the SGC ships, I could go on, but all of these things show how much Sam has help the galaxies. And helped fight the Wraith in EatG, and now she's running hr own ship. And as for her promotions, she was promoted fast, because she deserved and earned them. Without question, Sam has the best track record of anyone else on Stargate in general, well, her and O’Neill. Did I miss anything?

the writers have to *want* to write at least one of the female characters as more than sex object, with some talents somewhere in there. the chloe character is so-so, but the actress grates on me terribly. and guess what, she's the one focused on more than the other females. the medic (tj) has barely been touched, the ioc woman is mainly going to be focused on because she's a lesbian (this is guys writing this ), and the other female, lt. james, is someone i'd actually like to get to know. she's just supporting, so she won't get much time (or the cute guy).

so so far, i'm getting more irked with how the females are being used. or not used.

and this somehow does tie into sam , b/c after watching the newest ep, i actually felt glad that sam wasn't introduced on *this* show. she would have NEVER been what we've seen on sg1! and that's a shame to the extreme.

I couldn't agree more. I've read a lot of posts from quite a few places and a lot of them agree the woman on SGU should be used for things other than looking hot. I'm very glad Sam was introduced on SG-1 12 years ago and not on SGU today. God knows how they would have shaped her character, 1000 to 1 odds it wouldn't be the Sam Carter we all know and love.

Again it all goes back to Amanda sticking up for Sam and wanting her to show the right way a female air force officer should be portrayed. Amanda made Sam as a role model, someone people and young girls can look up to, she became an inspiration to those who wanted to join the air force. Amanda knew that she was representing a female air force officer, and she wanted people to see woman in the air force as brave, heroic and with self-respect.

Here'a question for y'all, imagine if Amanda didn't do all those things, and the Sam character was just like the SGU girls (and Sally's least fave SGU girl ) or if BW and company made Sam into their own imagine, I doubt very much Sam Carter would be the the big role model/idol she is today. In fact I bet woman would look at her and say "Oh look at her, showing off her stuff again" instead of "Now that's someone I want to be like one day." If Amanda hadn't made Carter into her own character, God knows how many less fans she would have, and how different a lot of peoples lives would be?

[Rocky89]

Perhaps it's only me but I believe that Sam's introduction as a character in SG1 wasn't a hundred miles off how they're handling the female characters introductions in SGU.

The first thing Sam did when she was introduced was stick up for herself for being a woman when Jack thought she was a man.

Sam had some good sass, smarts and was shown being able to handle herself in tight situations but she didn't save the day in Children of the Gods. She was also pretty much used as the damsel in distress in Enemy Mine and it wasn't until Emancipation (for all the episode was too 'I am woman; hear me roar') that she got significant screen time. The next episode had her kissing Jack in the locker room (albeit under the influence of an alien virus) and the one after that which focused on, had her faced off against her ex-fiance, and definitely dealt with some of her more personal falibilities in dealing with relationships that we didn't see again until Chimera and Affinity.

And yet, Sam did grow into a very strong character nevertheless. For me, it wasn't until Hathor and Singularity that Sam began to shine as someone who could also save the day. And from then on she went from strength to strength.

So I am truly trying to hold off on a judgement call re SGU and the usage of female characters until the end of the season when there is enough material to make a judgement. I can understand how people feel that the female characters aren't been showcased as much to date but one of the female characters definitely occupied a major sub-plot through Air and one of the characters had my favourite moment.

Agreed, all the episodes she's been in rather they were big or small parts have all contributed to her character development in some way. And all the good and bad things that have happened to her have also made her the person she is today.

we need to remember, the folks that created and wrote sam in the beginning....that's not who's running the show now. and that's not who's been in charge for the past few years

apples to oranges.

sam, for any perceived flaws in the last few years, had 5-8 'good' years of establishment, and that allowed her to carry through the changes in the last part of the show.

glassner and greenburg gave her a HUGE leg up over the more recent characters, and they gave her such a good foundation that she was able to stand tough through the changes

other characters haven't been so lucky...in fact, pretty much every female since sam and janet have 'suffered' from what i see as a limited outlook on part of the writers

totally agree on all of this.

with all the complaining the female fans have been giving the writers for years, it disappointingly amazes me that they don't have a female writer (or two) on the crew. the writers, to me, *need* a female view.

amanda was lucky. and even luckier to be partnered off with damian and martin, who seem to have a huge respect and interest in female characters. it's not just talk; you SEE the results.

go sanctuary!!

Good thinking you two . I'm glad Amanda's working with MW and DK because like Amanda they see how important it is to have strong female characters around Syfy. Now that Sanctuary is on and AT, MW and DK are in control we can really see how much woman can kick butt and save the day, and give Amanda a chance to really shine and see her do things we never saw her do on Stargate.

I do agree, brad has been involved in all three shows, so had some say.

that said...I look at Weir and Teyla who were created solely under his and coop's tuteledge and.....well I personally found them lacking in many ways. Weir, all too quickly, became the indulgent maternal figure that chided Shep but secretly let him get away with about anything and Teyla went from being a warrior and leader and guide to a romantic interest and visual beautification of the set.

So brad did and does have input certainly, but my interpretation of the past treatment of the ladies is....he doesn't seem to be much of an advocate for them

I think my one thing thus far with SGU is....i can't identify with the pretty skinny rich daughter, can't quite identify with Sgt James because of her actions with Scott in the premiere, so that just leaves TJ...a female in the 'traditional' caregiver role.

and, thus far, 66% of the ladies have fulfilled not much more of a role than to be partners for the males of the show. (or one male, but that's a totally different topic)

So far, there really isn't a strong female character that I can personally identify with. Not going to write it off yet certainly because we're only 5 eps in, but not looking promising in my book

About the bolded part, I read a lot of comments where people have sad they really disliked that scene because according to the, a) it wasn't Stargate, and b) it's not the way air force officers should act while on duty. And I've read other things on other boards where people dislike the women for how they act, and some have even compared them to Sam, saying they should be more like her.

Perhaps if men like MW or DK were working on Stargate we would have seen more women like Carter, but at the same time I'm glad we didn't because that's what makes Sam unique and special.

I agree EH-T i have been watching SGU and i dont get the same feel for the show as i did with SG-1 and SGA in both of them the women were the leader's and Sam she was a leader in both which rocked but with SGU i'm just not feeling it i hope the women on the show more screen time or have equil to the men but for the moment the only reason i watched the first 2 part premier was becase Amanda ,Rick & Micheal were in it and the third one becase Rick was in it i do keep watching it but i'm finding Sanctuary so much better

I saw some scene's from EULOGY and Amanda blew me away when i see her cry it makes me cry i felt the emotion's in those scene's so much .

It's funny you should say that because I've read comments on the SGU board over at Syfy.com and some say they prefer Sanctuary to SGU. I have never thought I'd prefer a show to Stargate, but when it comes down to it, I'd choose Sanctuary every time, I'm actually hoping for it to do better than SGU.

And yes, Amanda was wonderful in Eulogy.

Sam i could identify with largely on the 'lone female in a man's job' basis. and i loved how she acted and was treated...as one of the guys.

she wasn't the femme fatale, she wasn't the perpetual victim, she was part of the team.

None of the SGA characters really achieved that, females that is. while i LOVED the Jessica Weir, how forceful but not mean, passionate and confident she was, the Torri weir was...well she seemed 'emasculated' so to speak to facilitate the hero and his buddy aspect of the show.

Teyla...eye candy is how she was played up. I look at her costuming and how she was always the peace maker and mediator and...well at least she didn't get kidnapped as often as Keller did but still, she was just so marginalized by the end of the show i felt sorry for the character

Wray, you know, i forgot totally about her. We'll see how she plays out. I consider Chloe pretty much a write off to be any sort of strong. She seems destined to be the emotional one. not that that's bad, but she seems to be set to be the 'kind hearted softie' and or girlfriend in peril.

James...might be okay, we'll see. TJ has potential as far as i'm concerned. Wray...we'll see if they let her be her or if they get so caught up in making her the 'asian lesbian' that they forget to make her a person.

As far as i'm concerned, Sam stands alone as the strongest female in this whole franchise, followed closely by Janet, then Jessica Weir, the Cadman.

the rest...have their moments but, so far, Keller is totally the weakest and the jury's still out on the Universe Ladies

I agree with you Sky 100%. I can identify with a lot of the guys like Jack, Daniel and what not, but Sam's the only woman I can connect with. What I think sets her apart from Weir and Teyla for example is that they were sort of written in to easily. Weir was given control of the SGC, then Atlantis, Teyla was welcomed to Atlantis by John and the other men.

Sam on the other hand had to prove she belonged there, and some of the guys (Kawalsky & Ferretti) thought she was someone to be made fun of and didn't right away thought she had what it took to make it in the world of men. I'm happy she was close with Daniel since he was kind of an outsider too. Emancipation was great way to show off her character, it showed her as strong, smart and an inspiration to women who were treated badly by the men.

Don't get me wrong all the other women in the franchise like Weir, Teyla had to prove themselves in their own way, but they never really had the struggle like Sam did. The same can be said for the SGU women, and so far they haven't come close, which is why you're right Sky, Sam comes first on the strong list.

[Rocky89]

Hey everyone,

I agree, its eleven years on and they (TPTB) appear to be making the same mistakes. I have watched the first few eps but last weeks one (the sandy planet one) I have to admit I was board. I think I'm having trouble relating to any of the female characters.

Sam when I first saw her in S5 was making a place in the world for herself, whilst discovering how strong she could be. I at 19 was doing the same thing (still am actually) I feel the SGU ladies, right now at least, are just wallpaper.

But having said all that I'm hanging in there with SGU right as its still early days.

Then of course we have Sanctuary...strong females abound there.



Julia(samcarterrules)

Fangirl.

But you're right, even before I really knew the Sam character, back when I wasn't the fanboy I am today , I'd watch her and I'd be very impressed by her and I thought she was a cool person. I also agree with what you said about the SGU women, even though there's like 4, I feel that there following the men's league, I just don't feel the team spirit like I did with SG-1, even with SGA. You're also right about TPTB making the same mistakes, I'm just worried that the SGU girls are going to end up being what Sam was intended to be, but thankfully wasn't. I'm worried they're going to be shaped into a man's image and not allow themselves to grow and evolve on their own, not like Sam.

I'd like to see an episode with all the ladies, including Sam together, maybe traped somewhere I don't know? But they could talk and learn from each other. More like learn from Sam.

i'm sorry to say, but i have very few hopes that any of the women on sgu will be given the chance to lead a storyline. well, expect cloying chloe, who i can't stand.

i'd like to see a lot more of tj and james.

not that i want another sam carter to latch onto (there's only ONE ), but at least let them be more important to a storyline, besides love interest or wall holder.

with this group, i don't see it happening.

i have this very strong urge to thank damian and martin right now.

When you're right, you're right Sally . We're like 7 episodes into S1 of SGU and we haven't seen the women really earn their keep, Sam was given a big storyline in Emancipation (episode 3 of SG-1), and then there's Hathor, Singularity and Solitudes. All in the first season on SG-1.

Those were big storylines for Sam, and then there's the little things throughout S1, like when she used a helmet to power the Gate in The Torment of Tantalus. She's had several big/lead storylines over the years, and so far I don't see the SGU women doing that any time soon.

Oh and you're damn right about one thing, there's ONLY 1 Sam Carter.

me too

sanctuary is 'gotta see it', while - at this point - sgu is...if it's on

Damn stright.

yeah, we will never know.

I'd like to think that he means 'our guys don't need girlfriends', but he could just as easily mean 'scifi is for guys'

or mean something totally different.

What i don't get is, if writing a woman is so hard...try doing what AT supposed told them 'just write Captain Carter, I'll take care of the girl stuff'

It's like - ever since Sam and Janet - the writers have gotten so distracted by 'omg, the actor has boobies!!!!!!!!!!! eek!' that they just seem to freeze up

my issue is

(picking on the words, not the post, love the post)

but where in H E R O does it say 'must have penis'?

Write the hero. And where does it matter if it's a 'pointer' or 'sitter'?

Ripley was such a good character because it was written androgynous. It was written as the hero that kills the aliens, not the woman that killed the aliens, or the man that killed the aliens. it was simply 'hero', and 'hero' is a gender neutral word in its most basic meaning.

It's human perceptions and prejudices that gives the word 'hero' a face

I with the B@B would just write characters and stop getting hung up on the gender of the actor. Sam Carter could have been a male in COTG and not much woulda changed but a few lines in the briefing room and how the actors played the subtext (and heck, even that coulda stayed the same had they not been worried about jack and Samuel flirting)

not just having a woman's perspective on the writing team, she's a producer...they HAVE to listen to her. she's not just an actor voicing her opinion, she's part of the creative team and that allows her to voice her opinion and have it heard, not dismissed.

How many times did we hear that AT didn't like something Sam was doing and she brought it up to the writers/directors/producers and....usually got overruled (metaphorically patted on the head and told to take her lollypop and go play quietly in the corner)

These guys also, Amanda, Martin, Damian, saw how the show changed from the showtime/gekko days to the skiffy/brad and cooper days...and saw how perceptions and reactions changed along with it.

basically they seem to be learning from the past - as much as skiffy will allow them - and trying to not make what some see as the mistakes on the stargate shows

they are also not just 'contract labor', people hired to do a job, they're the show's creators, so they have an emotional investment, they're proud of their creation.

Magnus is a tough, kick butt character, who's also a mother and a scientist and caretaker. she doesn't have to be a heartless witch to be tough, and she doesn't have to be wishy-washy to be a mother and care taker.

she's just a woman.

Thank you Sky, you see that's the thing Amanda's trying to make clear, Syfy is for men and women alike. I don't know about BW or other PTB, but *I* believe women are strong, physically, emotionally and mentally, they have extraordinary strengths and they can overcome obstacles. They endure hardships, and they survive, and nothing and no one will bring them down. They also have strong minds, strong hearts and strong voices, and I want those voices to be heard more on TV/Syfy and I believe Amanda's been doing that since SG-1, and she's doing that now with Sanctuary.

I believe that as long as Amanda's at the helm, we'll see more women in Syfy reach their potential, and they won't be seen by men as sex objects, but strong capable women.

Jaclyn posted this on Twitter a little while ago :

jaclynmacrae Hey #Sanctuary -ans! Follow @amandatapping 's charitable foundation right here on twitter: @sanctuary4kids!!

35 minutes ago from web

Cool. Btw Amanda's got 6,331 followers now.

[RealmOfX]

Ok, longest consecutively running scifi shows. My bad.

Doctor Who ran every year for 26 years - can't get more consecutive than that

*yes Jan, another bone I won't let go of*

[Daivy]

Hey guys, just want to say that, when I was on the bus returning from my uncle's I saw a man with a dog that looked exactly like Abby, Amanda's late dog. So Abby was a Bouvier de Flandre.

I'm no dog but I'm "de Flandre" too

Glad Amanda had something (OK by name) from Flanders / Belgium
Oh if she read my birthday wish she also has a Birthday wish from Belgium. And maybe the "A Sam for every day" "primitive artwork" which I asked someone to give Amanda at AT1.